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#1 Edited by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Loved both films....

#3 Posted by SmashBrawler (5733 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't care less about that guy.

#4 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13155 posts) - - Show Bio

why am i not surpirised

#5 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5599 posts) - - Show Bio

Haters are fans too. He obviously watched it and will most likely try and get a job working on the next one. lol

#6 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

Couldn't care less about that guy.

He may seem petty for saying this, but he's a damn good cinematographer.

#7 Posted by SmashBrawler (5733 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Couldn't care less about that guy.

He may seem petty for saying this, but he's a damn good cinematographer.

I meant his opinion. This is the kind of stuff you don't do, like when Marvel offered an exclusive variant cover for Siege/Fear Itself if you ripped off like 10 covers from comic book related to Blackest Night/Flashpoint. He might not be a superhero fan but he's probably aware that TDKR and Avengers were "rival films", so to speak.

#8 Posted by Inverno (13221 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what is really funny? Compare the way these scenes were shot

They are all very long continuous shot. The camera moves, the actors move, things happen, the camera keeps shooting. Its difficult and expensive. Rarely makes it out of the editing room intact. The difference is that the Avengers easily rocked and The Last Airbender... didn't.

#9 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Nolan fanboys just can't accept that Avengers>TDKR, maybe he can use the shooting as an excuse for this too.

#10 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

I just think its dumb that these "professionals" can't even be civil. Could have worded it in a much better way. Guy just sounds like a dick.

#11 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15 said:

Nolan fanboys just can't accept that Avengers>TDKR, maybe he can use the shooting as an excuse for this too.

lol this

#12 Posted by Krissyjump (104 posts) - - Show Bio

Joss replied to his comments "I'm sorry to hear it, I'm a fan.".

#13 Edited by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995 said:

First off who cares what this guy says and 2nd he is a sore loser. His movie lost to Avengers and for that reason it is "appalling"

In what way did TDKR lose to The Avengers? and maybe you should actually check up on his career before calling him a loser.

@Xanni15 said:

Nolan fanboys just can't accept that Avengers>TDKR, maybe he can use the shooting as an excuse for this too.

The same can be said for the Avengers fanboys or infact any fanboy.And nice of you to bring the shooting...troll.

#14 Posted by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone:Hey Turok,your boy Toberoff just got his ass kicked.

#15 Posted by ComicMan24 (147091 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying that Avengers> TDKR or the other way around is just silly. Sure they were both about superheroes but this is where the similarities end. The movies were just too different to be compared. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

#16 Posted by cattlebattle (12774 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the guy does make movies for a living, so of course he is going to notice flaws that people don't notice. Its like if you saw a drawing that someone else thought it was amazing, but you didn't because you noticed all the intricacies that others wouldn't' look for.  He is not insulting the movie as a whole. He is just saying that the the cinematography work was bad. 

#17 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995: @Xanni15:

#18 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective:

What is that supposed to mean?

#19 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: It means it took six supeheros to make more than The Dark Knight. How much do you want to bet that Thor 2, Iron Man 3, and Captain America 2 won't make as much as TDK and TDKR?

#20 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective:

And why did you reply to me with it? Are you making this a DC vs Marvel thing?

#21 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: No I am not trying to turn it into that, but I'm getting tired of seeing comments like the one you made. Because I can do this. TDK and TDKR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iron Man. Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, ect. and I would side with the Avengers if it TDKR had made more than the Avengers because it's stupid to argue like this. And as to what the cinematographer said? I could really give 2 sh!ts what he thinks.

#22 Posted by Vrakmul (23849 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Xanni15: No I am not trying to turn it into that, but I'm getting tired of seeing comments like the one you made. Because I can do this. TDK and TDKR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iron Man. Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, ect. and I would side with the Avengers if it TDKR had made more than the Avengers because it's stupid to argue like this. And as to what the cinematographer said? I could really give 2 sh!ts what he thinks.

Small nitpick, it's couldn't, could implies you do in fact care about what he thinks.

#23 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: You're basing your entire issue off of the assumption that my comment was centered around money. It wasn't, I personally liked The Avengers a lot more than TDKR, I also enjoyed Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, and The Amazing Spiderman more than TDKR as well. So am I the one arguing based off how much money a movie made, or are you?

#24 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vrakmul said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Xanni15: No I am not trying to turn it into that, but I'm getting tired of seeing comments like the one you made. Because I can do this. TDK and TDKR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iron Man. Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, ect. and I would side with the Avengers if it TDKR had made more than the Avengers because it's stupid to argue like this. And as to what the cinematographer said? I could really give 2 sh!ts what he thinks.

Small nitpick, it's couldn't, could implies you do in fact care about what he thinks.

Of course he does. ;)

#25 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: I indeed assumed that you were centering your comment around money. but it is not a bad assumption because that's what most people argue about.

#26 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Yes but the reason why Marvel films>DC films for me is that they're branching off and not focusing on two characters. Marvel have made money out of relatively non household name superheroes like Thor and Iron Man whereas DC can't make a successful film without using Superman or Batman. That'll change by 2015 with the Justice League film but Marvel have branched out their film universe first and in a unique way. This is what I prefer overall to DC films. And when it comes to the comics, I'm a DC fan.

#27 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Xanni15: I indeed assumed that you were centering your comment around money. but it is not a bad assumption because that's what most people argue about.

It's an awful assumption. You were the one who brought money into it.

#28 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15 said:

@Vrakmul said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Xanni15: No I am not trying to turn it into that, but I'm getting tired of seeing comments like the one you made. Because I can do this. TDK and TDKR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iron Man. Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, ect. and I would side with the Avengers if it TDKR had made more than the Avengers because it's stupid to argue like this. And as to what the cinematographer said? I could really give 2 sh!ts what he thinks.

Small nitpick, it's couldn't, could implies you do in fact care about what he thinks.

Of course he does. ;)

#29 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I never said that I don't think Marvel is better movie wise. I mean look at DC's past. Jonah Hex, Green Lantern, Superman Returns, and those two Batman parodies with the pointy nipples. and comicbook wise I prefer DC also.

#30 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

the guy is an idiot. he calls himself a cinematographer and yet says the camera angles were wrong? did he ever pick up a comic book? Whedon tried (and sucessfully did it IMO) to capture that comics feel of action, he was obviously talking without even having knowledge of the medium the Avengers were based off. Probably because Dark Knight trilogy wasn't really influenced by comic books, or atleast not enough for him to go and check some out

anyway, why caring about this? I thought the whole Avengers vs TDKR thing was old news

#31 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7849 posts) - - Show Bio

And which movie made more money? Okay.

#32 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

who cares. there were things that i liked and disliked about both movies. I actually feel that both these movies are overrated. whatever happened to the Amazing Spiderman i enjoyed that a lot more than the avengers and TDKR

#33 Posted by logy5000 (5774 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers? Appalling?

#34 Edited by The Stegman (24392 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24:  
 

Saying that Avengers> TDKR or the other way around is just silly. Sure they were both about superheroes but this is where the similarities end. The movies were just too different to be compared. It is like comparing apples to oranges

maaan screw that cop out answer, oranges are better than apples, 
#35 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Hero numbers don't matter, it's the end result- financially which dictates if enough people cared enough to actually support the film. look at the Avatar. People will come out in waves to see what they are interested in, it just so happens the Bat fan base took a hit when the Batman movie didn't make as much as the Avengers. I'm a big marvel fan but foremost, i'm a fan of comics and that world, I liked the Batman movie, but I feel it was long and drawn out. Thats my opinion, whether it matters or not.

#36 Posted by The Stegman (24392 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74: Really, it was impossible for TDKR to make as much as Avengers 
 
1. Avengers came out in 3D, which automatically bumped up ticket prices 
2. Avengers is much more kid friendly, meaning kids will want to see it more than TDKR, and parents will be willing to take their kids to it as opposed to TDKR 
3. Avengers had WAY more marketing than TDKR, they got the word out better 
4. Not saying this to undermine the tragedy in anyway, but the Colorado shooting did have a huge affect on people wanting to go to the theater to see it, some didn't feel safe, a few of my friends for instance didn't see it for that reason.
#37 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Hero numbers do matter. Let me explain why. People that like Thor but don't like the other heroes will still go see the Avnegers because Thor is in it, and that applies to the other heroes. That's the main factor why the Avengers made so much, also the It's the first Superhero team movie that has been speculated and hinted for what 5 movies? It wouldn't matter if the movie was just okay (which was not, It was really good, even though It had a lot of major plot holes) It would still have made a lot of money.

#38 Posted by ValendianKnight (297 posts) - - Show Bio

I had no idea a company who made MILLIONS could "lose". Silly fanboys. That said, I definitely could have checked my brain at the door for the Avengers. Of course it made more money, it was pretty much a cartoon with zero substance.

#39 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

That guy can kiss my Hulk.

#40 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Hater.

#41 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@BlueLantern1995: @Xanni15:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlueLantern1995 said:

First off who cares what this guy says and 2nd he is a sore loser. His movie lost to Avengers and for that reason it is "appalling"

In what way did TDKR lose to The Avengers? and maybe you should actually check up on his career before calling him a loser.

@DarkKnightDetective That makes no sense. Who cares how many heroes were in the movie. Ultimately what's important is the movies budget and how much it grossed. After calculating the differences between how much the movie grossed and budget Avengers clearly wins.

(Gross) - (Budget) = Profit

  • Marvel's The Avenger - $1,511,757,910 - $220,000,000 = $1,291,757,910.00
  • The Dark Knight Rises - $1,077,204,558 - $230,000,000 = $847,204,558.00

So Avengers made $444,553,352.00 more then TDKR.

Ironically, TDKR had only 1 hero to Avengers 6 heroes and yet TDKR budget spent $10,000,000 more than Avengers.

But if you don't want to base your argument on money and you want to base it on substance instead...

According to Rotten Tomatoes professional reviewers ....

  • Avengers 290 pro reviewers give it an average rating of 92%
  • TDKR 291 pro reviewers give it an average rating of 87%

That's a 5% advantage in favor or Avengers

And according to the amateur reviewers on the site.

  • Avengers 450,337 RT reviewers give it an average rating of 96%
  • TDKR 450,505 RT reviewers give it an average rating of 92%

That's a 4% advantage in favor of Avengers

So to answer your question @entropy_aegis, both in terms of profitability, popularity, and quality Avengers > The Dark Knight Returns in every way. And for the record I was a Nolan fanboy, but to me TDKR was just disappointing.

#42 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@xybernauts:

That was the main issue I had with TDKR, it just didn't live up to the billing. Money aside, the movie wasn't as good as either of the two that proceeded it. I'm sure the amount of hype it received had a lot to do with it but I remember seeing articles about how TDKR was going to smash box office records, and be the best superhero movie ever made. It didn't do either.

#43 Posted by Mediumguy (166 posts) - - Show Bio

@xybernauts: @Xanni15: I saw both amazing movies...so really I WON!

#44 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mediumguy said:

@xybernauts: @Xanni15: I saw both amazing movies...so really I WON!

Indeed, everyone's a winner. :]

#45 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: @Mediumguy: With TDKR I don't feel like a winner. I was disappointed. The movie tried to fit too many different Batman stories into one film. Knightfall, No Man's Land, (I think there are others, but I can't remember). The movie was just convoluted. The first two movies were a win because it brought interesting perspective to certain aspects of the Batman mythology and it brought Batman out of those fake looking sets and into the real world sets. The problem with the TDKR is that it tries to make a movie about a man who runs around in a batsuit so real that the phase out iconic aspects of the Batman myth. When poorly made movies do well that sends the wrong message to the movie makers who I fear will be encouraged to make future Batman movies the same way.

#46 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers is still better than The Dark Knight Rises.

#47 Posted by FearTheLiving (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@evilvegeta74: Hero numbers do matter. Let me explain why. People that like Thor but don't like the other heroes will still go see the Avnegers because Thor is in it, and that applies to the other heroes. That's the main factor why the Avengers made so much, also the It's the first Superhero team movie that has been speculated and hinted for what 5 movies? It wouldn't matter if the movie was just okay (which was not, It was really good, even though It had a lot of major plot holes) It would still have made a lot of money.

Um have you actually seen the plot holes? There is nothing major about them lol.

#48 Posted by MrShway88 (655 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective:

@BlueLantern1995: @Xanni15:

This made me lol

#49 Posted by Mediumguy (166 posts) - - Show Bio

@xybernauts: What aspects are take away from the batman mythos

#50 Posted by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

@xybernauts said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@BlueLantern1995: @Xanni15:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlueLantern1995 said:

First off who cares what this guy says and 2nd he is a sore loser. His movie lost to Avengers and for that reason it is "appalling"

In what way did TDKR lose to The Avengers? and maybe you should actually check up on his career before calling him a loser.

@DarkKnightDetective That makes no sense. Who cares how many heroes were in the movie. Ultimately what's important is the movies budget and how much it grossed. After calculating the differences between how much the movie grossed and budget Avengers clearly wins.

(Gross) - (Budget) = Profit

  • Marvel's The Avenger - $1,511,757,910 - $220,000,000 = $1,291,757,910.00
  • The Dark Knight Rises - $1,077,204,558 - $230,000,000 = $847,204,558.00

So Avengers made $444,553,352.00 more then TDKR.

Ironically, TDKR had only 1 hero to Avengers 6 heroes and yet TDKR budget spent $10,000,000 more than Avengers.

But if you don't want to base your argument on money and you want to base it on substance instead...

According to Rotten Tomatoes professional reviewers ....

  • Avengers 290 pro reviewers give it an average rating of 92%
  • TDKR 291 pro reviewers give it an average rating of 87%

That's a 5% advantage in favor or Avengers

And according to the amateur reviewers on the site.

  • Avengers 450,337 RT reviewers give it an average rating of 96%
  • TDKR 450,505 RT reviewers give it an average rating of 92%

That's a 4% advantage in favor of Avengers

So to answer your question @entropy_aegis, both in terms of profitability, popularity, and quality Avengers > The Dark Knight Returns in every way. And for the record I was a Nolan fanboy, but to me TDKR was just disappointing.

Nice of you to use only one critic site and even there you chose to show only the fresh rating.Metacritic has a much more reputable reviewing system and there TDKR has the Avengers beaten by about 10%,it also leads in Cinemascore and IMDB.Likewise in RT both movies have the same average rating,the fresh meter has nothing to do with the movies' quality.

On a financial level Avengers had a 3-D advantage,that's about $200 million right there while TDKR had to suffer from the Colorado tragedy.

And it's The Dark Knight Rises not Returns.