Daredevil is a fantastic TV show. The CW should take notes

Damn. Although I get sick of The Avengers references and have some problem with the pacing, the tone is dark {true to the source material}, the acting is extremely well executed and convincing and the story thus far is really gripping. I'm surprised this supposedly takes place in the MCU.

The CW should take notes from this because the storytelling is fantasically crafted without the need for sloppy teen love triangles, I think Marvel are going to completely sweep the TV superhero shows with top notch quality drama from Daredevil. I think this is one of the few great superhero crime thrillers.

Perhaps the network is all it took. Netflix upholds creative freedom whereas The CW religiously asserts that there must be a love triangle to appease teenage girls?

as much as I like Arrow and Flash, I agree, I'm sick of love triangles

Agreed. CW should pay some serious attention.

CW's problem is its target audience. If Arrow and Flash were on a network not meant for teen Girls then they'd be better. Flash and Daredevil are my fav shows. Arrow reached its peak at season 2 with a up and down season 1 and a mostly down Season 3. Honestly lost interest in Gotham but still trying to give it a chance. Agents of Shields bored me on its first episode but I can't judge it as I've only seen the first episode. Agent Carter also didn't peak my interest. Though I do love the show I think pretty much being Overhyped as hell. Similar too the Flash. I'd give both a 8-9.10

Love triangles help the world go round :P

Meh I wouldn't really want the CW shows to be like Daredevil, as much as I'm loving Daredevil. Also I don't know how far you are into Daredevil, I am only 5 episodes in, but the Daredevil love triangles are brutally cringeworthy at this point. Much worse than Arrow or Flash imo.

That Olicity B.S. and other love triangles are stupid. Blame the shippers from Tumblr.

~MiB

Heh. iZombie says hi.

The love stories on CW are trying, but I like how personal the hero vs main villain stories are layed out. I think CW does a better job of this over Daredevil.

Fisk is a horrible and boring villain.His scenes were terrible.He didn't come off as menacing or scary.Weird and awkward.Foggy was a annoying as h*ll.He acted like a straight female.

Karen was really the best supporting character.Daredevil was the best,but Matt was Meh!!

Every show should be taking notes. This isn't just the best superhero show, this is one of the best shows available right now.

It's the network and the money. That simple. I am in episode 6 and I give the show a solid 9.

Honestly this is a referendum on how sad it is Networks have to pander to female viewers.

Women Viewers Continue to Rule Broadcast Prime Time.http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/news-articles/women-viewers-continue-rule-broadcast-primetime/114370

Women make most of the purchases in a house hold so Advertisers demand Networks cram in female friendly storylines and charcters. Netflix doesn't have to worry about BS like that.

The CW is the lowest rated channel on TV, don't expect much (even though Flash is pretty good)

@madeinbangladesh: No do not blame Tumblr, blame the system. This is from the article link I posted above:

Broadcast networks put all kinds of strategies into play when it comes to attracting audiences to new shows, from social media to streaming to webisode tie-ins. Yet execs seem to get that the foundation for any such success strategy always begins with two simple words: Ladies First.

Granted, each season, some broadcasters premiere a couple of new series that might have more appeal to men, but the key to keeping a series on the air is still making sure a large enough number of women tune in each week.

======••••••••••

Networks have a female gun held to their heads. They don't have a choice. That's why Cable TV must die. We need a new world order for TV. Netflix is the future model for how it's done. No horse poop ads, no Advertises dictating what type of story lines and content have to be in our programing. Death to Cable TV!!!

@nickzambuto: Hey I'm gonna continue this convo with you on Frozens thread page in general discussions. Outside of the Thor movies with Jane when has there been a forced Romance or silly drama subplot that lead to no where? Arrow pilot was good, but still had a lot of flaws such as Stephen Amells acting was very wooden. My main point is current Arrow season 3 is riddled with them to the point of annoyance. Even though Season 2 of Arrow was amazing it still had the classic Network TV flaws; annoying/b**chy female characters like Laurel season 2 mode, and forced drama(someone close to Ollie has to hate Arrow/Ollie). Agents of Shield season one was weak, but at least they stayed away from unessicary love triangles Felicty/Ollie/Ray and whinny females: Felcity Season 3, Laurel Season 2, Thea Season 1.

Daredevil is awesome so far. Im really surprised that Marvel took the violence to this level, its great! I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the CW shows. They are way to cheesy and dramatic but thats the audience they are targeting (woman). My girlfriend loves them! The Flash is such a great show though and I think thats because Barry isnt suppose to be a really hunky guy like they promote on Arrow. The only good thing about Arrow this season is seeing the Atom.

What love triangle are you on about? There aren't any.

I still prefer the first season of Arrow and Flash to Daredevil. As much as I hate the love triangles, I can get around them and truly enjoy the show.

@14nc3: oh wait never mind you were talking about DD

@14nc3: My bad man. I reread it.

The CW has a target audience...unfortunately, any show on there has to cater to teenage girls in some way....

Damn straight! DD is awesome!

@14nc3: Matt-Claire-Karen AND Matt-foggy-Karen.

Only draw back to Daredevil.The season is too short. Feed me more.

It's no Kamen Rider

Would love to see an Ironfist show now.

If Arrow and Flash were either picked up by HBO, Netflix, or something, I guarantee you they'll be really super good

.... you serious?

The show never once hints that Matt and Karen have a romance going on. Just because he has a penis and she has a vagina it does not mean they're interested in each other. There's a romance between Matt and Claire and there's something going on between Foggy and Karen, but that's it. -_-

@tensor: It's only short because you have full access to it

@madeinbangladesh: Or the Laurel Lance Defense Squad who call you a misogynist just like Ollie supposedly is if you say a word against Laurel.

Have you watched the whole thing? They hinted numerous times there is some tension between Karen and Matt and I'm not even done watching the show yet.

~MIB

Fisk is not the stereotypical villain you see in most crime television or film.

The fear and respect built up in the first few episodes I thought was an amazing exercise in subversion. They build up this monolithic figure in the first three episodes, this terrifying crime boss that will cause people to commit suicide rather than face his wrath. But when you meet him, the first thing he says is how lonely he feels. As you follow his life, you see that he's socially awkward, insecure, almost autistic. You begin to wonder why he's so feared. He's a giant child.

Fisk as they portray him in the show seemed purposefully written to go against the "Godfather" crime boss cliche of the cold, calculating, emotionless criminal. He's vulnerable, he's needy, he's immature. In many ways, he's down right weak.

Then he beats a man half to death with his bare hands and then decapitates him, literally turning his head into a dripping pile of goop.

The man you see on screen is NOT the Kingpin. At least not yet. But there are flashes of the man that he will become. He still genuinely wants to save the city. At his core, he's still an idealist. Let's see how long that lasts.

What instances of tension are you referring to? I thought there was gonna be a romance when there was that scene in his apartment but they never took that further, especially not during his affair with Claire. There was that one time where she referred to him as the handsome one, but the show never intended anything by it.

Karen obviously has some feelings for Matt. They ARE taking it from the comics aren't they? Even when Foggy and Karen were having a date in that old lady's apartment, Karen kept asking questions about Matt and then she told him to touch her face.

There is a LITTLE love triangle but it is nowhere NEAR nearrrrrrrrr unnecessarily tweeny and overboard like Arrow and even Flash.

~MIB

I'll say it again CW puts out nothing but crap catered to teens. Until DC steps up an truly try's to take a show to anything but network TV they are going to be shit. Hopefully Preacher is that project. I have faith in AMC and I think they have what it takes to make Preacher a great show. Though I would've preferred HBO to tackle it.

If Arrow wanted to be dark so badly this is how they should have did it.

So far, they're not following the Karen-Matt romance from the comics, but I know it will eventually. But they haven't started it . And I don't get why you'd think she has feelings for Matt because she asked Foggy to touch her face. The questions about Matt don't really point to her wanting to bang him - i'd imagine your date's blind friend would be an interesting topic to talk about.

And I really don't think there is a love triangle. The only reason the show would do that was to add drama - making the love triangle subtle doesn't make sense for the writers. And there isn't any evidence I can recall that points to it so far, other than what i've said.

There IS a love triangle but it is barely noticeable and very subtle because it is so well written in DD unlike in a CW network show

~MiB

same here

But again there is no evidence of a love triangle. And why would they make it subtle - there's no point to them if it doesn't raise drama.

I don't really see why CW needs to take notes. It's not like it's trying to be like DD, it's a completely different targeted audience. Even then, it's been improving as a whole with Arrows second season in comparison to the first and Flash/iZombie with Arrow. Not saying I like it, but I'm not who the show was made for. Now you could say DC/WB does, which I agree with due to the lack of an HBO series. At the same time, I think we are going to get one if Preacher is successful.

Almost all the MCU movies had romance subplots. All three Iron Man movies with Tony and Pepper, The Incredible Hulk with Bruce and Betty, both Thor movies with Thor and Jane, and Cap 1 with Steve and Peggy. The only ones without romance are Avengers 1 and Cap 2, and apparently even Avengers 2 has a romance subplot with Hulk and Black Widow. Now I'm only on the second episode of Daredevil, but already it seems like they're starting a romance subplot with Foggy and Karen, and as we all know Matt needs to end up with Karen eventually, so all I'm saying is don't get your hopes up that Daredevil will pioneer a new breed of television where romance never shows up or anything. And honestly the idea of romance subplots in itself isn't even bad, maybe some people enjoy it besides just teenage girls?

And what's with this rumor of Stephen Amell having "wooden" acting? I guess it's all subjective, but Stephen Amell has been a terrific actor since day one, he basically portrays three entirely separate characters and pulls them all off perfectly (baby island Oliver, current determined Oliver, and intimidating vigilante Arrow)

Laurel was a bad character in season 2, I'll give you that. But the other complaints you bring up are all subjective, Arrow might have a big focus on drama, but why is that a bad thing? The first two episodes still had far better action sequences than the first two episodes of Daredevil, it's not like drama holds the show back.

All I'm saying is, you and everyone else might be jumping the gun and getting your hopes up.

Also the idea of Marvel suddenly beating DC in television now is pretty silly. Agents of Shield is barely hanging on and nobody even cares about Agent Carter at all. I think the reason people like Daredevil so much is because the bar was so low, we finally got something decent that we wanted. DC on the other hand has had major success with both Arrow and Flash, and mild success with Gotham (although nobody seems to care about Constantine).

@nickzambuto:

And honestly the idea of romance subplots in itself isn't even bad, maybe some people enjoy it besides just teenage girls?

I said forced romance and drama. All of the couples you just name come straight from the source material and the only one that felt forced was Jane & Thor(cause Jane is kinda boring). I'm not a romance hater. I love romance. James Bond Casino Royale had a great romance plot. It doesn't make you less of a man to love romance, if that's what you thought I was getting at? I'm talking about forced romance plots and love triangles that ham-fist and slow the progress of the main plot line.

Also the idea of Marvel suddenly beating DC in television now is pretty silly.

Are you talking to people in general? Currently they aren't. I said in the long run their netfliks tv shows will be better because they aren't held to the constraints Network TV creates. People watched Carter. NBC never believed in Constantine and doomed it with the times from the start. Ratings wise Gotham is destroying Arrow and Flash. Quality wise both of those are better from what I have seen from Gotham though.

And what's with this rumor of Stephen Amell having "wooden" acting?

It is subjective, but it is wooden in my eyes and many other peoples. So, it's certainly not a rumor. He basically is stoic for most of the show. I would personally put him somewhere around Kenau level(which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since Kenau has had a great career including the successful Matrix Franchise.)