@Erik: You are reading too much into it, if the creation part of her origin is all a lie, it could just as easily meant that the gods granted her the special abilities when she 12. There is nothing that disproved that. Rather the fact that the Amazons were turned to clay is indicative of Hera's wrath over that specific part of the lie. I think the lie is the "made of clay" part, there is nothing to suggest otherwise. By your logic because Steve Trevor has been reimagined as a special ops guy, this means he never flew a plane to Themyscira and thus there was a never a contest and thus she was never chosen as Wonder Woman.
@k4tzm4n: Well I am somewhat of a Wonder Woman expert, seeing as I have read every single one of her monthly series issues.
I am not sure if we are counting the lasso, because we didnt count Aquaman's telepathy for Energy projection or Batman's gear for Energy projection either.
I would also say that Diana's intelligence is perhaps not above Bruce's, and Bruce's official rank is now 5.
And are you sure her Durability shouldnt be 7, she is nearly just as Durable as Superman?
And I agree with your downgrade in speed versus my own rank of 6. And the fighting rank, after looking at some of the scans, I can agree.
I won't take her lasso into account, but the bracelets are fine since that's standard attire.
I'm still working out the kinks about how I want to handle energy projections. I'm currently on the fence over Arthur's TP counting for the category.
UPDATE:
I decided to veto Batman's 3 for strength and move him to a 4. I believe he absolutely has consistent feats to justify placement in the very low end of that ranking.
@RazzaTazz said:
@k4tzm4n: Well as was just pointed out to me if Bruce is a 5 then so would be Diana. I downgrade my choice.
@Erik: You are reading too much into it, if the creation part of her origin is all a lie, it could just as easily meant that the gods granted her the special abilities when she 12. There is nothing that disproved that. Rather the fact that the Amazons were turned to clay is indicative of Hera's wrath over that specific part of the lie. I think the lie is the "made of clay" part, there is nothing to suggest otherwise. By your logic because Steve Trevor has been reimagined as a special ops guy, this means he never flew a plane to Themyscira and thus there was a never a contest and thus she was never chosen as Wonder Woman.
Not I am not. Wonder Woman's continuity was rebooted. You are assuming too much with absolutely NO facts to back it up. Just fevered passion for WW. Hera turned the Amazons to stone as a curse, not a removal of blessings. None of the Amazons are even the original Amazons in the New 52. They only survived as a race because they would breed with sailors and pirates. They are all mortal. Besides that, none of the Amazons were made from clay in the Post Crisis continuity. LOL by my logic? No. Your wonky "logic" assumes that WW has things happen that never happened in the New 52 universe. Are you going to tell me that WW lassoed the sun and toted it around in the New 52 as well?
@Erik: She has shown a lot I think, or are you referring to only the twelve issue in DCnU?
The New 52 feats are all that is considered in this thread barring characters that retain some of their Post Crisis continuity. Specifically Batman and Green Lanterns and even then, their stats are affected. Post Crisis Batman likely would have ranked higher on the intellect rating for example.
@Erik: You are reading too much into it, if the creation part of her origin is all a lie, it could just as easily meant that the gods granted her the special abilities when she 12. There is nothing that disproved that. Rather the fact that the Amazons were turned to clay is indicative of Hera's wrath over that specific part of the lie. I think the lie is the "made of clay" part, there is nothing to suggest otherwise. By your logic because Steve Trevor has been reimagined as a special ops guy, this means he never flew a plane to Themyscira and thus there was a never a contest and thus she was never chosen as Wonder Woman.
Not I am not. Wonder Woman's continuity was rebooted. You are assuming too much with absolutely NO facts to back it up. Just fevered passion for WW. Hera turned the Amazons to stone as a curse, not a removal of blessings. None of the Amazons are even the original Amazons in the New 52. They only survived as a race because they would breed with sailors and pirates. They are all mortal. Besides that, none of the Amazons were made from clay in the Post Crisis continuity. LOL by my logic? No. Your wonky "logic" assumes that WW has things happen that never happened in the New 52 universe. Are you going to tell me that WW lassoed the sun and toted it around in the New 52 as well?
But I agree with RazzaTazz, and I have to admit I am not a fan of Wonder Woman and never have been.
@Erik: You are reading too much into it, if the creation part of her origin is all a lie, it could just as easily meant that the gods granted her the special abilities when she 12. There is nothing that disproved that. Rather the fact that the Amazons were turned to clay is indicative of Hera's wrath over that specific part of the lie. I think the lie is the "made of clay" part, there is nothing to suggest otherwise. By your logic because Steve Trevor has been reimagined as a special ops guy, this means he never flew a plane to Themyscira and thus there was a never a contest and thus she was never chosen as Wonder Woman.
Not I am not. Wonder Woman's continuity was rebooted. You are assuming too much with absolutely NO facts to back it up. Just fevered passion for WW. Hera turned the Amazons to stone as a curse, not a removal of blessings. None of the Amazons are even the original Amazons in the New 52. They only survived as a race because they would breed with sailors and pirates. They are all mortal. Besides that, none of the Amazons were made from clay in the Post Crisis continuity. LOL by my logic? No. Your wonky "logic" assumes that WW has things happen that never happened in the New 52 universe. Are you going to tell me that WW lassoed the sun and toted it around in the New 52 as well?
But I agree with RazzaTazz, and I have to admit I am not a fan of Wonder Woman and never have been.
@Erik: You are reading too much into it, if the creation part of her origin is all a lie, it could just as easily meant that the gods granted her the special abilities when she 12. There is nothing that disproved that. Rather the fact that the Amazons were turned to clay is indicative of Hera's wrath over that specific part of the lie. I think the lie is the "made of clay" part, there is nothing to suggest otherwise. By your logic because Steve Trevor has been reimagined as a special ops guy, this means he never flew a plane to Themyscira and thus there was a never a contest and thus she was never chosen as Wonder Woman.
Not I am not. Wonder Woman's continuity was rebooted. You are assuming too much with absolutely NO facts to back it up. Just fevered passion for WW. Hera turned the Amazons to stone as a curse, not a removal of blessings. None of the Amazons are even the original Amazons in the New 52. They only survived as a race because they would breed with sailors and pirates. They are all mortal. Besides that, none of the Amazons were made from clay in the Post Crisis continuity. LOL by my logic? No. Your wonky "logic" assumes that WW has things happen that never happened in the New 52 universe. Are you going to tell me that WW lassoed the sun and toted it around in the New 52 as well?
But I agree with RazzaTazz, and I have to admit I am not a fan of Wonder Woman and never have been.
.............. Congratulations?
I was merely trying to say that its not just because of RazzaTazz's like for Wonder Woman that is driving the argument. I agree with RazzaTazz's comments and arguments and I am not a fan of Wonder Woman.
I was merely trying to say that its not just because of RazzaTazz's like for Wonder Woman that is driving the argument. I agree with RazzaTazz's comments and arguments and I am not a fan.
I honestly do not care which user you like more and that really is what this is about. RazzaTazz's argument is baseless in the New 52.
@Erik: I thought you liked healthy discussions, not belittling the people you are discussing with. You didn't answer my other question about Steve Trevor, without him showing up to Themyscira, how does that affect her origin? There are too many unanswered gaps in her origin, the fact that you believe that certain ones are now in continuity and that others are not does not affect. As there is no defined post Flashpoint origin, either no origin has to be the case or otherwise that the majority of it remains intact. If the Amazons are now mortal and not favoured by the gods, then how did the lasso of truth come to Diana. Your viewpoint has too many assumptions in it, and assumptions do not make for strong points.
@Erik: I thought you liked healthy discussions, not belittling the people you are discussing with. You didn't answer my other question about Steve Trevor, without him showing up to Themyscira, how does that affect her origin? There are too many unanswered gaps in her origin, the fact that you believe that certain ones are now in continuity and that others are not does not affect. As there is no defined post Flashpoint origin, either no origin has to be the case or otherwise that the majority of it remains intact. If the Amazons are now mortal and not favoured by the gods, then how did the lasso of truth come to Diana. Your viewpoint has too many assumptions in it, and assumptions do not make for strong points.
I do like debating with people that understand logic and reason. Still waiting for you to show some.
Steve's introduction is unimportant. What we know right now is that they met at some point in time and they dated for a bit. That never happened in Post Crisis continuity either. So your attempt at a point is moot.
We do not know how the lasso came to Diana. We do not even know if it has the same level of power as the Post Crisis one. We DO know that the bracelets have a different effect on WW in this continuity though.
My viewpoint has no assumptions. That is the problem you are having. I am assuming nothing. Only what DC has decided to show us. It is YOU that is assuming too much. You assume that what they have not shown us must be filled in with an alternate universe continuity.
Wonder Woman has god granted wisdom from Athena. She is likely in the smartest people in the DC Universe and is comparable to Batman in intelligence. She can learn new languages in days and has been shown to be a scientific genius (WW Vol 2 issue 170)
Day in the life one, with LOIS ?? where (IIRC) she was working on a cure for Something one of John Henry's (Steel) relatives suffered??? Am I close????
In any case that's more than a little pre Flashpoint. All these rankings are supposed to be Nu52 based aren't they?
Yes, they are. However, if there's evidence supporting that a fair degree of the character's pre-new52 history is still in tact (for example, Batman) - I'll allow it. That said, I have no idea if such is the case with Wonder Woman or if it's logical to assume that.
Her history hasn't been fully fleshed out yet, but I think it is reasonable to assume the blessings of the god still stand. Anyway I stand by my original mark for intelligence, take it or leave it.
I wouldn't know as I haven't been following. However it was stated that the only thing that would be canon post flashpoint was flashpoint. Batman and GL were both depicted during Flashpoint as VERY true to former selves. WW and Aquaman were depicted a more than a few varying ways. Based on that I'd say all bets are off.
I was merely trying to say that its not just because of RazzaTazz's like for Wonder Woman that is driving the argument. I agree with RazzaTazz's comments and arguments and I am not a fan.
I honestly do not care which user you like more and that really is what this is about. RazzaTazz's argument is baseless in the New 52.
Again, you misunderstood me, I meant that I am not a fan of Wonder Woman, yet I agree with RazzaTazz's arguments. They are not baseless in the New 52, they are supported by the current issues of Wonder Woman.
Again, you misunderstood me, I meant that I am not a fan of Wonder Woman, yet I agree with RazzaTazz's arguments. They are not baseless in the New 52, they are supported by the current issues of Wonder Woman.
No.... They are not. If you had been reading my arguments as well as hers, you would have seen that I pointed that out at every turn.
@Erik: I thought you liked healthy discussions, not belittling the people you are discussing with. You didn't answer my other question about Steve Trevor, without him showing up to Themyscira, how does that affect her origin? There are too many unanswered gaps in her origin, the fact that you believe that certain ones are now in continuity and that others are not does not affect. As there is no defined post Flashpoint origin, either no origin has to be the case or otherwise that the majority of it remains intact. If the Amazons are now mortal and not favoured by the gods, then how did the lasso of truth come to Diana. Your viewpoint has too many assumptions in it, and assumptions do not make for strong points.
I do like debating with people that understand logic and reason. Still waiting for you to show some.
Steve's introduction is unimportant. What we know right now is that they met at some point in time and they dated for a bit. That never happened in Post Crisis continuity either. So your attempt at a point is moot.
We do not know how the lasso came to Diana. We do not even know if it has the same level of power as the Post Crisis one. We DO know that the bracelets have a different effect on WW in this continuity though.
My viewpoint has no assumptions. That is the problem you are having. I am assuming nothing. Only what DC has decided to show us. It is YOU that is assuming too much. You assume that what they have not shown us must be filled in with an alternate universe continuity.
First, of all you should not be rude to moderators.
Second, people need to stop preaching about logic and reason, because if we uses the Philosophical Laws of Logic here in these debates, many of those individuals would no longer have valid arguments.
Third, k4tzm4n has clearly said that Pre Flashpoint feats and events still count as long as they are considered canon. Steve's introduction has not been retconned, and we know that without the bracelet's Wonder Woman has the power of the celestial class beings in the DCU. And we know that Wonder Woman's Pre Flashpoint powers have not been retconned nor have we seen anything to lead us to believe she is no longer as power as she was before.
Fourth, you are assuming that everything Pre Flashpoint no longer applies, when RazzaTazz has clearly make a case to show that they do in fact apply. You are assuming that only New 52 stuff counts, when clearly k4tzm4n has said that this is not the case.
@Erik: I thought you liked healthy discussions, not belittling the people you are discussing with. You didn't answer my other question about Steve Trevor, without him showing up to Themyscira, how does that affect her origin? There are too many unanswered gaps in her origin, the fact that you believe that certain ones are now in continuity and that others are not does not affect. As there is no defined post Flashpoint origin, either no origin has to be the case or otherwise that the majority of it remains intact. If the Amazons are now mortal and not favoured by the gods, then how did the lasso of truth come to Diana. Your viewpoint has too many assumptions in it, and assumptions do not make for strong points.
I do like debating with people that understand logic and reason. Still waiting for you to show some.
Steve's introduction is unimportant. What we know right now is that they met at some point in time and they dated for a bit. That never happened in Post Crisis continuity either. So your attempt at a point is moot.
We do not know how the lasso came to Diana. We do not even know if it has the same level of power as the Post Crisis one. We DO know that the bracelets have a different effect on WW in this continuity though.
My viewpoint has no assumptions. That is the problem you are having. I am assuming nothing. Only what DC has decided to show us. It is YOU that is assuming too much. You assume that what they have not shown us must be filled in with an alternate universe continuity.
First, of all you should not be rude to moderators.
Second, people need to stop preaching about logic and reason, because if we uses the Philosophical Laws of Logic here in these debates, many of those individuals would no longer have valid arguments.
Third, k4tzm4n has clearly said that Pre Flashpoint feats and events still count as long as they are considered canon. Steve's introduction has not been retconned, and we know that without the bracelet's Wonder Woman has the power of the celestial class beings in the DCU. And we know that Wonder Woman's Pre Flashpoint powers have not been retconned nor have we seen anything to lead us to believe she is no longer as power as she was before.
Fourth, you are assuming that everything Pre Flashpoint no longer applies, when RazzaTazz has clearly make a case to show that they do in fact apply. You are assuming that only New 52 stuff counts, when clearly k4tzm4n has said that this is not the case.
Edit:
It is not rude to tell someone they are letting their love of a character cloud their reason... especially when they are.
Wrong.
"As long as they are considered canon" is the key phrase. The only characters that applies to are Batman and the Green Lanterns. Superman was heavily rebooted and only has one Post-Crisis feat to his credit and that is Doomsday. Even then, there is only some vague attachment to the event. Wonder Woman has no Post Crisis continuity attached to the New 52 yet. Your argument is invalid. Steve's introduction has not been retconned? Are you sure? Because his military position has been as well as his age and his romantic relationship status with Wonder Woman... which if you read Post Crisis, you would know never happened at all. What facts do you present to back up your statement? Because near as I can tell, it is nothing other than your need to be RT's white knight.
RT never made a case. She just wants them to apply. She has presented no evidence to support the argument that they do apply. In fact, there are plenty of facts laying around that WW's Post Crisis continuity is gone.
....... Lol Why are you showing a picture of her surprise kicking Superman as if that were some kind of admissible evidence? In order to be admissible, it must first be relevant.
@Erik: @RazzaTazz: I'm curious as to why everyone is putting Diana's durability so high. Without the bracelets being her crutch, she isn't anything beyond enhanced and I haven't seen her take bullets to the head as Arthur did.
@Erik: @RazzaTazz: I'm curious as to why everyone is putting Diana's durability so high. Without the bracelets being her crutch, she isn't anything beyond enhanced and I haven't seen her take bullets to the head as Arthur did.
Because she can take Superman's punches to the face and not get KO'ed instantly. Or the fact that she took a Nuclear blast.
@Erik:
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
@Erik: I'm curious as to why everyone is putting Diana's durability so high. Without the bracelets being her crutch, she isn't anything beyond enhanced and I haven't seen her take bullets to the head as Arthur did.
That is a good question. I initially rated her durability lower for that very reason but k4tz pointed out her durability feat for having taken Darkseid's knuckle sandwich right to the face. Diana does not have durability to slashing attacks but to blunt force, she seems to still be very durable.
@Moon_Bat_87 said:
@Erik:
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
Ah... no they are not. We have no idea how strong Hal is as of yet and she surprised Superman with that kick. He was not prepared for it at all. What specifically does it prove?
@Moon_Bat_87 said:
I cannot. These are Pre Flashpoint feats.
But as k4tzm4n said Pre Flashpoint feats still count, but obviously you and Erik deny that they are canon.
He said they count where applicable. This is not the case with WW. Flashpoint WW was radically different than Pre-Crisis, Post Crisis, Odyssey and New 52 Wonder Woman. Did you even read a single WW comic? Because I am almost certain that if you had, you would not even be posting in this thread about WW one way or another. Your only argument is to support someone else's baseless argument.
That is a good question. I initially rated her durability lower for that very reason but k4tz pointed out her durability feat for having taken Darkseid's knuckle sandwich right to the face. Diana does not have durability to slashing attacks but to blunt force, she seems to still be very durable.
I'm not arguing that she doesn't possess the durability to take blows from stronger beings such as Superman and Darkseid but the fact of the matter is that she's still susceptible to bullets, pierced objects, etc. Aquaman has shown superiority to this, even Superman in his earliest days has been shown to stop bullets with no effect. Diana has not. She's enhanced at best.
That is a good question. I initially rated her durability lower for that very reason but k4tz pointed out her durability feat for having taken Darkseid's knuckle sandwich right to the face. Diana does not have durability to slashing attacks but to blunt force, she seems to still be very durable.
I'm not arguing that she doesn't possess the durability to take blows from stronger beings such as Superman and Darkseid but the fact of the matter is that she's still susceptible to bullets, pierced objects, etc. Aquaman has shown superiority to this, even Superman in his earliest days has been shown to stop bullets with no effect. Diana has not. She's enhanced at best.
Except she is not enhanced. She cannot take slashing or piercing attacks but her blunt for durability is comparable. Just because she does not have the same type of durability as other bricks does not mean she is not comparable. At worst, it is grounds to make sub-categories for blunt force, slashing/piercing durability. Besides that, I am fairly certain k4tz has allowed the bracelets to be taken into consideration for her durability. If that is the case, this debate is settled.
@Moon_Bat_87: If this is mainly a power grid handbook for New 52 characters, why would Pre-52 feats be applicable?
They're only applicable if it's safe to assume the character's Pre-N52 history is still somewhat in tact (such is the case for Batman, Green Lantern and Nightwing).
As you can see, there's quite a dispute over whether Wonder Woman's Pre-N52 history is still considered canon.
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
Ah... no they are not. We have no idea how strong Hal is as of yet and she surprised Superman with that kick. He was not prepared for it at all. What specifically does it prove?
It proves she is strong enough to send Superman for a shooting loop and that she is able to sucker kick on someone with supernhuman hearing and senses.
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
Ah... no they are not. We have no idea how strong Hal is as of yet and she surprised Superman with that kick. He was not prepared for it at all. What specifically does it prove?
It proves she is strong enough to send Superman for a shooting loop and that she is able to sneak up on someone with supernhuman hearing and senses.
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you argue out of ignorance? She did not sneak up on Superman. He grabbed her sword from behind when she was beating on Hal and when he did, she whirled around and kicked him while he was in the middle of talking. Please... please read the issues you are trying to use as evidence.
That is a good question. I initially rated her durability lower for that very reason but k4tz pointed out her durability feat for having taken Darkseid's knuckle sandwich right to the face. Diana does not have durability to slashing attacks but to blunt force, she seems to still be very durable.
I'm not arguing that she doesn't possess the durability to take blows from stronger beings such as Superman and Darkseid but the fact of the matter is that she's still susceptible to bullets, pierced objects, etc. Aquaman has shown superiority to this, even Superman in his earliest days has been shown to stop bullets with no effect. Diana has not. She's enhanced at best.
Except she is not enhanced. She cannot take slashing or piercing attacks but her blunt for durability is comparable. Just because she does not have the same type of durability as other bricks does not mean she is not comparable. At worst, it is grounds to make sub-categories for blunt force, slashing/piercing durability. Besides that, I am fairly certain k4tz has allowed the bracelets to be taken into consideration for her durability. If that is the case, this debate is settled.
It's a tricky subject, but yes, I'm taking standard attire into account when ranking durability. This is an oddly unique case, since it's such a limited area that she uses for blocking. Batman's cowl was a much easier element to tackle.
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
Ah... no they are not. We have no idea how strong Hal is as of yet and she surprised Superman with that kick. He was not prepared for it at all. What specifically does it prove?
It proves she is strong enough to send Superman for a shooting loop and that she is able to sneak up on someone with supernhuman hearing and senses.
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you argue out of ignorance? She did not sneak up on Superman. He grabbed her sword from behind when she was beating on Hal and when he did, she whirled around and kicked him while he was in the middle of talking. Please... please read the issues you are trying to use as evidence.
Sorry, I didnt mean to say sneak. I apologize.
And I did read it, I have a copy of it right here.
But it still proves she is strong enough to kick Superman really far, and fast enough to kick him before he could react.
And I did read it, I have a copy of it right here.
But it still proves she is strong enough to kick Superman really far, and fast enough to kick him before he could react.
Yes you did. There was no other way for that sentence to be structured.
I believe you have a scan "right there".
Kicking Superman really far is not a strength feat. Anyone with strength range in the few tons can do it because Superman is only a couple hundred pounds. Hurting Superman is another story and she did that. But we do not know the extent of this pain he felt and we do not have a strong gauge on his durability either.
She kicked him when he was not expecting a fight. He was trying to talk. We cannot determine if the speed of the kick was too much for him to dodge based on that alone.
And I did read it, I have a copy of it right here.
But it still proves she is strong enough to kick Superman really far, and fast enough to kick him before he could react.
Yes you did. There was no other way for that sentence to be structured.
I believe you have a scan "right there".
Kicking Superman really far is not a strength feat. Anyone with strength range in the few tons can do it because Superman is only a couple hundred pounds. Hurting Superman is another story and she did that. But we do not know the extent of this pain he felt and we do not have a strong gauge on his durability either.
She kicked him when he was not expecting a fight. He was trying to talk. We cannot determine if the speed of the kick was too much for him to dodge based on that alone.
Actually I didnt, see my edit.
And yes I have the scan right here, but I didnt look at it when I posted that.
The point is that she was able to kick Superman and hurt him. Not feat just anyone in the New 52 can do.
Well we can determine that he wasnt fast enough to react in time to a sucker punch kick, which from many other characters would have been blocked or dodged.
Well we can determine that he wasnt fast enough to react in time to a sucker punch kick, which from many other characters would have been blocked or dodged.
Thing is he wasn't trying to fight her. He wasn't expecting the kick. He was trying to calm things down between Diana and Hal and WW sucker kicked him. He didn't react because he wasn't expecting it.
And I did read it, I have a copy of it right here.
But it still proves she is strong enough to kick Superman really far, and fast enough to kick him before he could react.
Yes you did. There was no other way for that sentence to be structured.
I believe you have a scan "right there".
Kicking Superman really far is not a strength feat. Anyone with strength range in the few tons can do it because Superman is only a couple hundred pounds. Hurting Superman is another story and she did that. But we do not know the extent of this pain he felt and we do not have a strong gauge on his durability either.
She kicked him when he was not expecting a fight. He was trying to talk. We cannot determine if the speed of the kick was too much for him to dodge based on that alone.
Actually I didnt, see my edit.
And yes I have the scan right here, but I didnt look at it when I posted that.
The point is that she was able to kick Superman and hurt him. Not feat just anyone in the New 52 can do.
Well we can determine that he wasnt fast enough to react in time to a sucker punch kick, which from many other characters would have been blocked or dodged.
Lol editing it after I already told you how it really happened in the issue. Does not change the fact that you clearly never read it.
I agree. You had the scan but did not look at it. I daresay you did not look at the issue either.
Batman did it.
And you can prove this how? Anyone can be taken by surprise. Even Flash is and Flash is faster than Superman.
And I did read it, I have a copy of it right here.
But it still proves she is strong enough to kick Superman really far, and fast enough to kick him before he could react.
Yes you did. There was no other way for that sentence to be structured.
I believe you have a scan "right there".
Kicking Superman really far is not a strength feat. Anyone with strength range in the few tons can do it because Superman is only a couple hundred pounds. Hurting Superman is another story and she did that. But we do not know the extent of this pain he felt and we do not have a strong gauge on his durability either.
She kicked him when he was not expecting a fight. He was trying to talk. We cannot determine if the speed of the kick was too much for him to dodge based on that alone.
Actually I didnt, see my edit.
And yes I have the scan right here, but I didnt look at it when I posted that.
The point is that she was able to kick Superman and hurt him. Not feat just anyone in the New 52 can do.
Well we can determine that he wasnt fast enough to react in time to a sucker punch kick, which from many other characters would have been blocked or dodged.
Lol editing it after I already told you how it really happened in the issue. Does not change the fact that you clearly never read it.
I agree. You had the scan but did not look at it. I daresay you did not look at the issue either.
Batman did it.
And you can prove this how? Anyone can be taken by surprise. Even Flash is and Flash is faster than Superman.
While I dont have to justify myself to you, because as I said before you are clearly being rude, but I edited twice, one was right after your previous comment but before I read it, and the second was after re-reading the wording.
And I have the issue right here in front of me. Please do not assume anything about who I am or what I have in my possession.
Yes and Batman was on Scarecrow Venom, which not only increased his strength to Bane type levels, but it also increased his adrenaline due to fear, which further increases strength.
While I dont have to justify myself to you, because as I said before you are clearly being rude, but I edited twice, one was right after your previous comment but before I read it, and the second was after re-reading the wording.
And I have the issue right here in front of me. Please do not assume anything about who I am or what I have in my possession.
Yes and Batman was on Scarecrow Venom, which not only increased his strength to Bane type levels, but it also increased his adrenaline due to fear, which further increases strength.
I do not care. I called you on your BS and I am satisfied with that. Move on.
I am not assuming. I know. You could not have mistaken what Wonder Woman did for sneaking up on Superman if you had read it.
So what? Bane is what, 25 tons top on the new venom? And that is being extremely generous.
Wonder Woman's kick to Superman's face and her fight with Green Lantern as seen in the bottom panel are all relevant.
Ah... no they are not. We have no idea how strong Hal is as of yet and she surprised Superman with that kick. He was not prepared for it at all. What specifically does it prove?
It proves she is strong enough to send Superman for a shooting loop and that she is able to sucker kick on someone with supernhuman hearing and senses.
Just want to point out, I can provide scans where Atom Smasher (at base size) has punched Black Adam Through the roof and across a city block. I can also show him smashing BA into the ground. Or I can show Black Canary throwing him across a street.
Neither Atom Smasher or Black Canary are any where near BA in strength. Base Size Strength for AS is about 60 to 70 tonnes, BA was stronger then Superman.
While I dont have to justify myself to you, because as I said before you are clearly being rude, but I edited twice, one was right after your previous comment but before I read it, and the second was after re-reading the wording.
And I have the issue right here in front of me. Please do not assume anything about who I am or what I have in my possession.
Yes and Batman was on Scarecrow Venom, which not only increased his strength to Bane type levels, but it also increased his adrenaline due to fear, which further increases strength.
I do not care. I called you on your BS and I am satisfied with that. Move on.
I am not assuming. I know. You could not have mistaken what Wonder Woman did for sneaking up on Superman if you had read it.
So what? Bane is what, 25 tons top on the new venom? And that is being extremely generous.
No your a jerk who wants to be right all the time and disrespects fellow members of this forum.
While I dont have to justify myself to you, because as I said before you are clearly being rude, but I edited twice, one was right after your previous comment but before I read it, and the second was after re-reading the wording.
And I have the issue right here in front of me. Please do not assume anything about who I am or what I have in my possession.
Yes and Batman was on Scarecrow Venom, which not only increased his strength to Bane type levels, but it also increased his adrenaline due to fear, which further increases strength.
I do not care. I called you on your BS and I am satisfied with that. Move on.
I am not assuming. I know. You could not have mistaken what Wonder Woman did for sneaking up on Superman if you had read it.
So what? Bane is what, 25 tons top on the new venom? And that is being extremely generous.
No your a jerk who wants to be right all the time and disrespects fellow members of this forum.
LMAO. If you do not like being wrong that much, maybe you should read the material before trying to make an argument with it.
Might adjust these stats once we see her fight with Superman though. I would like to see her durability range most of all but speed and strength would be great as well.
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