Comic Vine Reviews Discussion

Hey all,

It's no surprise there's a lot of discussion over the amount of 5 star reviews we give out, so I thought I'd speak my mind on that a little bit. Hopefully it'll clear up the subject for some of you.

"You give too many five star ratings. These books aren't perfect or instant classics."

Wholeheartedly agreed with the latter, but to us a 5 star rating doesn't indicate that, either. Personally, I treat star ratings as I do Netflix's system:

• 1 Star = Hated it.
• 2 Stars = Didn't like it.
• 3 Stars = It's okay.
• 4 Stars = Really liked it.
• 5 Stars = Loved it.

Now, it's no secret that you can love something that isn't perfect. For example, I love the latest Deadpool run. Does it have its flaws? Absolutely. The story isn't anything special and it was a fairly repetitive formula. That said, it was clearly going for strong action and comedy, and in that regard I fell in love with the book. It was a blast that kept me laughing and having a great time. I loved it and therefore, I was okay with giving it 5 stars despite minor complaints.

Now, keep in mind we do not have the ability to give half stars. If we did, I imagine 5 stars would be far less common and we instead see more 3.5s - 4.5s. I'd love for that to happen, but that's not something I have power over.

"But giving it 5 stars implies it's as good as SAGA and it totes isn't!"

No, it doesn't andif you read the review instead of just looking at the rating, that's made abundantly clear. Nowhere in the review will I state something like Deadpool's a masterpiece and a must read for everyone or it's the next big thing. In fact, I clearly stated in the review for the first arc that the character development and story is lackluster -- two elements where a book like SAGA clearly excels. However -- and I'm repeating myself now -- I provided (hopefully) adequate reasons to explain why I loved it, thus giving it 5 stars.

"The publisher paid you for this review."

Go home, Viner, you're drunk. If I'm getting bribe money for positive reviews or attempting to keep an open mind during the very early stages of a comic book movie, then my checking account would like to know where the hell that all money is -- I could certainly use it on new comic book day! Guess what? Some people love the stuff you don't. Some people hate the stuff you love. At the end of the day, a review is just our opinion. Just because we love something you loathe doesn't mean we're getting some extra green on the side. Truthfully, this is one of the most ignorant things a person can say and it is indeed insulting. You honestly think a huge publisher like Marvel is going, "We need good reviews on Comic Vine, dammit! Quickly, risk our credibility and offer them bribes now!" So, grow up and read the review to see the reasoning for the opinion before going "5 STARS? YOU GOTS PAID, BRO."

If you're still QQing over the matter, well I guess that's just too bad. Perhaps you can opt not to read our reviews instead of sounding like a broken record? TONY LOVED THE LATEST ISSUE OF BATMAN -- A BOOK THAT'S WIDELY ADORED? THAT'S SHOCKING, MAN.

Snyder paid you to say this. It's all a cover. Can't fool us.

Not that this was really necessary at all considering that there shouldn't be a reason why someone should complain about a review. It's simply their own opinionated thoughts on something and should be taken with a grain of salt. Of course, it's always nice to know what other people think about something they share an intrest with, but I never understood why someone would get worked up over it. If you enjoy something (or hate it), then that's your opinion. What others think shouldn't dicate your decision on whether you should pick it up or not. On top of it all, people shouldn't be looking at the score to see how an issue would rank, but at the written portion itself.

Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time in writing this up and clearing things for those unknowing to how the grading scale works!

I agree with what you say, somethings peoples comments on reviews are just annoying. like they get made over someones opinion.

You're welcome.

Thanks.

But on a serious note, this is similar to Roger Ebert's defense of his famous "two thumbs up" rating system. People had similar complaints about how a movie like Goodfellas could get a 4-star/two thumbs up rating and a perceived "lesser" film like, say, The Karate Kid could get the same rating; from their perspective it was tantamount to Ebert claiming The Karate Kidwas as great as Goodfellas. Ebert's reply was that he doesn't grade films relative to each other, he grades them on their individual merits within the genres they occupy. A screwball comedy can get just as high a recommendation as a Bergman arthouse flick. If comics had to be judged on a relative scale, then nothing would ever go beyond 3 stars since 95% of comics obviously aren't as good as The Sandman or something like that.

This. Now I have something to show to those idiots. Well anyway thanks for the article that's exactly how I rate things.

This is a fitting reply to those who feel Comicvine gives too many 5 and 4 star reviews. Critiquing each comic based on its own merits is a good way of measuring what score to give it. And despite the naysayers, at the end of the day, a review is someone's opinion on the comic. You may disagree with it or dislike their points but it's still their perspective on what happens in the issue. Not all comics can be written that are as 'good' as something like Watchmen so some other criteria needs to be established and this is a justifiable one. Thanks for writing this article Gregg! And why can't you guys give half stars by the way?

QFT

@bluelantern1995: @lvenger: Thank you.

@citizenbane: The man initially gave The Raid: Redemption one star or something. His name is a curse word to me :(

"There's obviously an audience for the film, probably a large one. They are content, even eager, to sit in a theater and watch one action figure after another pound and blast one another to death. They require no dialogue, no plot, no characters, no humanity. Have you noticed how cats and dogs will look at a TV screen on which there are things jumping around? It is to that level of the brain's reptilian complex that the film appeals."

Ebert finds your cinematic tastes insufficient, k4tz.

@citizenbane: I'm going to dropkick you through the internet.

Prepare yourself.

...

Did you feel that?

@k4tzm4n: But wait, this point is even better.

"A detail. What does "Redemption" mean in the title? Who, or what, is redeemed, and how? If you kill lots of people and are still alive, have you been redeemed? If you and your brother don't kill each other after almost everyone else does, is that redemption? Or is "redemption" just one of those title words like "reloaded" or "destiny" to help people tell movies apart?"

Clearly, the plot is so deep they had to expand it into a trilogy.

On a more serious note, have you seen it?

It's good that you did such a thread because there have been so many comments in your reviews that the issues don't deserve 5 star ratings but the truth is that everybody has his own opinion and he has a different taste for books.

Saga's a 5 star?

@k4tzm4n said:

@citizenbane said:

Snyder paid you to say this. It's all a cover. Can't fool us.

That's it. k4tz you better go make a thread of all your magnificent Microsoft Paint edited pictures now! xD

But yeah I agree with this.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: I'm far too lazy for such a task.

Yup, and I'm sure @inferiorego could write an essay on why it is.

Thank you.

I'm kind of sad that this is even a thing.

And Saga's an 11. If you haven't read it, you're wrong.

Agreed, but hey, that's the interweb for ya.

funny you guy mentioning Ebert a few hours ago.......

Yeah, felt terrible seeing the news shortly after :(

The way I approach comic reviewing is that the average comic is - average.

I ask myself, 'if all comics that came out the same month as this one by all publishers were lined up left to right from worst to best, where would this comic lie along that spread?' If it's better than average (more to the right), I give it slightly higher (more stars) and if it's worse than average (more to the left) I give it slightly less (fewer stars). Only the really worst or best get one or five stars.

I like the new feature that shows the distribution of stars a user has given on their review page. Mine is a near perfect bell curve (or it was before the star system changed*), which lets me know that I'm doing my job as a reviewer right - my average rating is... average (3 stars) with more just above or below average (2s or 4s) and the fewest at the very top and bottom of the range (1s or 5s).

* As half stars are no longer counted it has skewed slightly upward

This brings up the biggest problem with the new 'no half star' system. The 'average' comic in the middle of the range is now 3 stars instead of 2.5 - which means by default, the average comic is above average (3 out of 5).

I would agree stating a reviewer is being bribed to give out five stars is insulting -- no argument there. However, someone disagreeing with the amount of stars given is valid -- why have the option of posting comments to each review otherwise? (I appreciate discussing the comic itself which is why, but from what I have seen on this site -- it's usually just back-slapping in agreement or outright derision.)

I do like the breakdown with the stars and what they mean. Plus, the comment about comics not needing to be perfect to be completely enjoyed is true but to me -- to me mind you - a staff member for a comics website who writes reviews for said comics has an expectation from readers to be impartial in terms of what is fun to read for the sake of fun and what constitutes a well crafted comic. Believe me, I think half the problem (maybe even more than that) is that people fail to read the review in its entirety and because of that, would miss that acknowledgement which more than likely will be there. But having said that - then why have a star system at all? The star system is there to catch the attention of a site visitor, and while I would never take the stars given at face value -- it's not unreasonable to expect many people would.

You didn't bring this up, but I have come across comments along the lines of reviewers will only review comics they enjoy. It's hard to even continue here because to me, it almost defeats the entire purpose of reviewing. If I am a food critic and primarily visited only restaurants I enjoy patronizing - then as a food affecionado, I am not going to put much worth into the reviews pumped out. There is a way out in my example because you can put forth this food critic frequents this restaurant to sample new dishes. Fair enough. Then state as much. State you are a Marvel or DC or other comic company reviewer (or combination of it) in your reviews -- that you are personally a fan of such a character and so the review will reflect that. (Not saying it doesn't happen but I am stating it this way to preface my next point.) In this scenario, people responding to reviews who are also fans of the particular book/character(s) are well within right to respond in a negative way. Not for anything, but through the eyes of a publisher - if I hired a reviewer under the understanding they are qualified and they consistently put out reviews which are panned then it will give me pause. This goes for lowly rated reviews and higher -- point in case is the reaction to most posters to G-Man's review of Thanos' new mini. He gave it a four star (IIRC) and it was tantamount to him tearing the issue apart.

Are these comics purchased by Staff or are they provided by the companies? The only reason why I bring that up is because when reviewers state they only reviews books they anticipate they will like, then there goes my hope they will review books I enjoy (or might enjoy) because no publisher will want to keep handing out free issues to a website that won't review them. I am not saying the site ONLY reviews the big two (or other popular Vertigo/Dark Horse books) but the odds of seeing a review of a comic from one of the independent will be low because of this. Yes, you might not get much commentary -- yes the majority of the people who visit the site like the Big Boys in publishing, but if you put yourself out there as a comic reviewer on a comics website then review comics. Not just ones you enjoy.

If these books are truly out of pocket - then by virtue of being a comics reviewer, should you not branch out and purchase a few here and there you otherwise wouldn't for the sake of reviewing? Maybe approach the indies and ask for issues to review (which I suspect does happen already)?

I guess my point is, you are a paid reviewer because you have demonstrated a capacity to critique the media of comics. If a comic sucks -- it sucks. If people react in posts angrily because they are rabid fan-boys/girls then that would be even MORE entertaining to me as a comics fan . Same goes for an awesome book and people hating the characters therein.

Just my two pence on the subject which can change since I can fairly state I don't know what it is to be a professional reviewer.

@lykopis: Apologies for the delay, just spotted this. I'll respond when I can.

EDIT:

However, someone disagreeing with the amount of stars given is valid -- why have the option of posting comments to each review otherwise?

Of course and that's welcome, but this feature isn't addressing those people. People have every right to disagree with a review and provide their reasons, but this is addressing the more absurd complaints which are sadly relatively common.

Good points.

Bump because I'm dropping quite a few 5 stars today :P

THIS IS GREAT. It puts to rest a lot of my concerns when I come to the site. Thanks!

Glad it could help and you're very welcome.

Thank you for providing the link to this thread. I rarely visit the forums here, and have questioned the rating system a few times. I was under the impression that a five star rating meant I should rush out and buy this book...but I see it is as simple as the reviewer just loving the book and then stating why.

So thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding....I won't comment on the system anymore after reading this. :)

Good article. Wait until the Superior Spider-man haters see this. They will bide their time waiting for their troll force to muster.

If anyone actually reads my reviews, mainly because I'm 5 months behind, you'd see I'm very quantitative. I will never say I'm a grwat writer, so I rate each issue on 4 criteria with art being weighted double and story triple. I then average and since we don't have half stars round up or down. IMO this gives a more unbiased review that if I hate one aspect the whole comic doesn't become a 1 star. While everything is based on my opinion I would think others enjoy similar comics based on the same criteria, if not then they can tell why at least I liked it.

just saw Target ad with Justice Leauge outstanding..give me more..

People should be allowed their opinion. I hate the idea of Superior Spiderman, but I've never bought one of the comics and wouldn't have a problem if someone rated one of them as a 5. Some people on here forget that comics are supposed to be a bit of escapism. They take it way too seriously. Look its not Charles Dickens, Great Expectations, people (which btw, I rate a 5-lol)....I flicked through Batman Year one the other day in a shop and couldn't see what the fuss was about, but respect the fact Batman fans hold that graphic issue in such high esteem.

Live and let live...

@k4tzm4n: Why don't you guys review Wonder Woman?

@k4tzm4n: I appreciate the link to this (sorry for the delay), but I still feel like a lot of stuff is inflated. There's a difference between a comic that's fun and enjoyable and one that's truly great. Just my opinion, but I've just seen a lot of stuff rated at 5 stars and then there are huge flaws pointed out throughout the review. I guess my approach to reviewing is more along the lines of 5 stars = total recommendation, maybe a couple caveats; 4 stars = awesome but maybe not for every one; 3 = average; 2 = lots of faults; 1 = terrible. Just makes me feel like it's not an efficient or effective star system that you're using (and it's not just you I'm talking about), and I'm hesitant to read the reviews because I've stumbled upon so many that are littered with spoilers. Also my opinion, but the quality of an issue doesn't rest on the specifics of what's happening. You can talk about how engaging something is without giving away plot points. My 2 cents (probably more like 5 cents haha).

I'm catching up on it, so we can review it again

I have always thought the reviews were rather high, but as Tony has pointed out from time to time, if you review books you like then they are bound to be on the better side, unless something just doesn't sit well with you.

From a first hand point of view the few reviews I have done have been mostly positive, I didn't have the intention of automatically giving them a high score but they were books I enjoyed.

I'm so glad you posted up this article! I usually write reviews also and I often get annoyed whenever some people criticize the reviews for not having the same viewpoint as the person reading the reviews. It's also insulting whenever some people say that "the comic companies paid you to write good reviews about them" because everyone is entitled to their opinions about a book and just because there's a review that says something positive about the comic, doesn't mean that that person can't voice their own opinions about the comic.

My personal score:

1 Star: I think it just might be objectively terrible and I found no real joy in reading it.

2 Stars: Pretty bad, but a lot of it can be me being nitpicky. Still I didn't enjoy it very much and I think it's unlikely people with similar tastes will.

3 Stars: Average, an enjoyable issue but it didn't have anything that really made me find it to be a cut above the rest.

4 Stars: Above average, really good stuff but not quite enough to make me really love it.

5 Stars: Love it! Fantastic stuff and I think everyone should read it too.
I also like putting recommendations for just what kind of tastes or fans I think the issue tailors to.

If it were possible to make half-stars, the rating system could be converted to "out of 10 (10 being the best)."

Where can I find a list of new User reviews , I haven;t been here in a long time , don't know my way around anymore

Agreed. Too many five stars.

Yea!

At the moment it seems like there isn't a link which lists all of them, but if there's a user review for a specific issue, it'll be available on that issue's wiki page. For example, here's the wiki page for the latest issue of GA #28. If you go to the bottom, you'll see "user reviews" and you can click on the one that's available.

http://www.comicvine.com/green-arrow-28-the-outsiders-war-book-3-the-final-/4000-444475/

Sorry for being off topic earlier.

Thanks for the answer. In all honesty, I don't value the sites reviews as much as I do user reviews, nothing personal, just an opinion. I had a radio show here in Orlando , we talked about and reviewed movies. whether we paid or got in free , after awhile the exposure to so many films on a critical level , does affect your judgement , and you can be harder on a good movie , or kinder on a bad depending on how many films in the genre you have seen that week, month , or even year.

A more casual reader may have a more open mind , but it is also a more relaxed and casual opinion. One definitely not affected by a deadline. That being said , if you are uncomfortable with someones review be it positive or negative, put your own opinion out there. Review the books yourself.

Just remember that "Uh huh , this book sucks!" is not really a good write up. Give us some reason you liked it , Or hated it , and grade accordingly. Don't give a book 1 star because you feel you have to balance the other 5 stars, into a 3 star review. Make it honest. At least you know one person is trying to read your opinion. It's The main reason I came to the vine.

Just wanted to comment that the last few weeks it feels like DC titles have been getting the short end of the stick in volume; It's been something like 10+ Marvel and 4 or so DC titles.

Is it possible to give 1/2 Stars in our Ratings? And if we can simply give Zero Stars if possible?

There are some movies or series that I've watched that I can see giving them some credit but that it wasn't overwhelmingly good that they've earned a full star in my opinion. Like I think there is a difference between 3 to 4 STARS, they might be worth only 3 and 1/2 STARS. Likewise, there are some movies or series that I think are so damn bad that they aren't even worthy of a single STAR. At the very least, I'd like to be able to give them 1/2 STAR or something.