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Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) 1 year, 1 month ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Movie Dredd vs. Movie Batman (502 votes)

Movie Dredd 52%
Movie Batman 40%
Too close to call 7%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character (both sides think the other is a villain).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 50 feet apart and visible. However, there's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles and such).
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
#51 Posted by _Genesis_ (306 posts) - - Show Bio

Dredd wins

#52 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Dredd. He is tougher. Lawmaker > Utility belt. Plus he doesn't have throat cancer.

On a side-note... How awesome would it be if Urban gets to be the next Bats?

#53 Edited by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of people are bringing up the bane fights to counter Batmans H2H. Bane states in the first fight that his victory has defeated him, I.E he's gotten old and sloppy. THIS IS BATMAN IN HIS PRIME. The best showings of Bats across the whole trilogy would have dominated bane and would wtfstomp movie Dredd. I love Dredd, but he can't tag the stealth master at long range and he absolutely cannot hang with him H2H based on feats seen in the movies.

Batman 10/10

#54 Posted by dondave (37459 posts) - - Show Bio

Dredd

#55 Posted by arw1985 (39 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with "Too Close to Call". Both can kick some butt and have good gadgets. Even if Batman knocks Dredd's gun away from him, I think Dredd would still be tough to beat.

#56 Posted by ChillinVillain (158 posts) - - Show Bio

@trauma: There are some definite flaws in your argument when you discuss Batman's DKR feats. He beat Bane with what looked like a lucky strike to his mask and, besides, that only made it 1-1 between them. Bane destroyed Bruce in their first encounter. Also, a child escaped that prison. I know it was the child of Ra's al Ghul, but it doesn't impress me that Batman equalled a kid's feat. Batman's most incredible DKR feat was the ability to screw with continuity and consistent plotting.

To be fair, Bane couldn't do it either and we know for damn sure that Dredd can't.

Also, that was NOT a prime Bruce.

#57 Edited by bsavelli (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Logic says Dredd, but the batpart of my brain says "screw logic! I'm Batman!"

#58 Posted by ChillinVillain (158 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people keep talking about Dredd's computerized gun, and its ammo types, but ignore the fact that Batman has an EMP gun and an EMP attached to his belt?

Also, the fight takes place in an area with plenty multi-storied abandoned buildings....and Batman is a ninja....

Dredd CAN'T hit a PRIME Batman from that far away (hell he can't hit TDKR Batman from that far), which allows Batman to get into the DARK buildings and we all know that Dredd will follow.

No way Dredd beats a master ninja that he can't see or hit.

#59 Posted by Hhuyti (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman deals with guns all the time and he beat bane when he was old and out of shape. Dredd is like a tank but batman can do it with stealth and gadgets.

#60 Posted by ChillinVillain (158 posts) - - Show Bio

@bsavelli: Logic states that the location and distance is COMPLETELY in Batman's favor.

#61 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@chillinvillain said:

@bsavelli: Logic states that the location and distance is COMPLETELY in Batman's favor.

Actually no, Logic states Grown Man in a dark alley vs a Gun with Explosive Grenades and White Phosphorus that covers half the street win automatically for the guy with the gun..

Logic states High Tech Explosive Projectiles > Gun > Knife > Fist.

Logic states Stun / Flash Bang Grenades like the one Dread uses that covers 10 meter radius > Batman sneaking!

Logic states Dread simply wins and easy at that.

What Logic are you using again?

#62 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

Dredd no contest.

#63 Posted by ChillinVillain (158 posts) - - Show Bio

@chillinvillain said:

@bsavelli: Logic states that the location and distance is COMPLETELY in Batman's favor.

Actually no, Logic states Grown Man in a dark alley vs a Gun with Explosive Grenades and White Phosphorus that covers half the street win automatically.

Logic states High Tech Explosive Projectiles > Gun > Knife > Fist.

Logic states Stun Grenades like the one Dread uses that covers 10 meter radius > Batman sneaking!

Logic states Dread simply wins and easy at that.

What Logic are you using again?

Dredd has no reason to use any of his grenades or explosives at the start of the fight because he has no reason to think that he needs to; he doesn't know that he going against a master ninja that has military-grade equipment.

Logic says that he attacks Bats with normal ammo, that allows Bats to either dodge the shots, or use the cars to shield himself, as he escapes into a building. That can be made even easier with his EMP to shut off all the streetlights and, in the 3-5 seconds it takes Dredd to readjust, Bats can either use his EMP gun or grapple gun to relieve Dredd of his gun. Regardless, as long as Bats can get into stealth-mode, he can retreat into a hidden area and then go into predator-mode.

#64 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:
@chillinvillain said:

@bsavelli: Logic states that the location and distance is COMPLETELY in Batman's favor.

Actually no, Logic states Grown Man in a dark alley vs a Gun with Explosive Grenades and White Phosphorus that covers half the street win automatically.

Logic states High Tech Explosive Projectiles > Gun > Knife > Fist.

Logic states Stun Grenades like the one Dread uses that covers 10 meter radius > Batman sneaking!

Logic states Dread simply wins and easy at that.

What Logic are you using again?

Dredd has no reason to use any of his grenades or explosives at the start of the fight because he has no reason to think that he needs to; he doesn't know that he going against a master ninja that has military-grade equipment.

Logic says that he attacks Bats with normal ammo, that allows Bats to either dodge the shots, or use the cars to shield himself, as he escapes into a building. That can be made even easier with his EMP to shut off all the streetlights and, in the 3-5 seconds it takes Dredd to readjust, Bats can either use his EMP gun or grapple gun to relieve Dredd of his gun. Regardless, as long as Bats can get into stealth-mode, he can retreat into a hidden area and then go into predator-mode.

The EMP gun is not standard gear from all 3 Movies I seen. If it was, why not use it to deactivate the Computerize Tank Mobiles that Bane had? Why not use it to stop Jokers bombs on the Boats and then go after Joker instead of hoping humanity will prevail! Why not use the EMP gun that is so dang "standard" to beat Ras's Hydro Vaporization device?!

Oh Snap. Flaw in your assumption of a EMP Gun as the only cool thing you can debate with. It is no way standard nor does Batman ever use it for anything logical!

As for Dredd not using the Gas or Super Flash Bang Grenades off the bat... why not? He did use them off the bat as a opener move.

Heck the Gas Grenade was his first offensive choice in the movie approaching the stairs. Why would he hold back on a guy throwing razor bladed Batarangs at him or pulling out a Gun device in front of him?

Why does Batman easily manhandle Dredd in Close Combat when the hilariously non skilled Joker did so much damage to him with a Bar and a Knife!

Seriously.

#65 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Nolan Batman wipes the floor I think with movie Dredd. Just my opinion.

#66 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to say Batman, I think he'd take this.

#67 Edited by eternalnature (364 posts) - - Show Bio

Well chalk this BotW to Dredd do to the hate of Nolanverse Batman.

#68 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

Mentality

Dread is a trained killer, Batman will not kill anyone this leaves Batman incapacitation or knock out. (As shown in their movies)

-edge Dread; Batman has to knock out his opponent or incapacitate while Dread just has to kill.

Weapons/Gear

Dread: Electronic gun which fires: AP(armor piercing), HER (high explosive rounds), IR (incendiary rounds), and electronic stun rounds. He also uses a variety of stun, gas, and fragmentation grenades. Dread's armor has a heads up display which feature NVG, camera, and on board computer system, his armors bullet resistance is questionable (he was shot through a wall with an AP round which almost killed him) does seem to be bulk and a bit cumbersome based on the design.

Batman: bataranges; stun, smoke, gas, and explosive grenades; an EMP in his belt; grappling hook; wrist mounted hooks (shown to break a katana into pieces); this is from BB, DK, and DKR. Batman's armor is a full body suit which allows for a high degree of movement articulation, stealth (camouflage at night), no noise profile, is made up off Kevlar and titanium plates (it can stop gun fire exception straight shot probably 7.62 fire proof when batman was doused with gasoline and the suit was relatively intact save the cape, and weakness took penetrating objects between the titanium plates)

-edge Batman: Dreads main weapons could kill Batman but relies on electronics Batman counters this with his emp in the belt before dread could use his weapons (save the grenades). This gives the edge to Batman because of a greater range of usage, they directly counter Dreads, and allow him to utilize the terrain advantage Dread cannot because his HUD is electronic and would be knocked out by the emp.

Tactics/Experience/Fighting skills

Dread: From what we know of Dread he has been on the force for years, has dealt with crazy homicidal killer psychos for years, has patrolled Megablock city for years (which is the size of the entire EAST COAST). He has shown some adaptability in tactics be able to outsmart drug lords and their featless minions, he also been able to out smart his own (corrupt) judges and beat them (it should be noted however that he would have lost to the last judge had the judge not entered into a pointless monolog about his criminal reasons only to be shot by Dreads partner. Overall Dread shows a cowboy lone ranger like mentality towards his opponents with aggressiveness at the forefront, not stupid aggressiveness but one could say at times a bit reckless.

Batman: He does not posses the years of police experience Dread does , however he has more to show for experience (mainly three movies). He has beaten the physically superior Bane in h2h (he did fight dirty by disabling the pain killers to his face however all is fair in love and war, and it shows Batman's ability to adapt to his opponents once he finds out their weakness). Batman put the fear int organized crime in Gotham by beating their cronies and featless thugs, He has beaten multiple highly trained ninja mercenaries from the League of Shadows at the same time, multiple featless thugs at the same time, multiple trained mercenaries at the same time (which have shown the ability to beat highly trained U.S. black ops and SF all be it when they ambush them), Batman has taken out two Gotham SWAT teams, he beat Ras' Al Guel a highly trained mercenary, He beat the Joker who is as crazy as hell with some physical feats to boot (he did kill some nameless thugs in h2h, and has shown some proficiency in h2h against Batman all though not at his level. Batman is considered by most to be a tactical genius and have unmatched deductive reasoning skills, tactical efficiency of using his gear to his advantage and disable his opponent's advantage, he has also shown the ability to adapt to his surroundings and use it to his advantage.

-edge Batman: Batman gets the edge because his gear allows him to disable the advantages of his opponents (Dreads gun and HUD). Batman has shown a greater ability to adapt to his opponents and utilize his surrounds (Dreads upfront cowboy mentality is going to be at a disadvantage for him). He also shown great stealth and has a beater showing of h2h feats then Dread. Lets be honest people Dread has only one movie to show for an in the movie he did not use much h2h. Batman has defeat arguably harder opponents in h2h, Bane, Ra's, Trained league ninjas, trained mercenaries, and not to mention thugs.Batman primarily relies on h2h to deal with his opponents. Dread has beaten crack head thugs and his own highly trained corrupt judges (and he would have lost to the last one of not for a really obvious plot device).

Physicals

Dread: a highly trained cop and looks to be in pretty good shape, can take a bullet and still kick butt, not to mention killer instincts with his gun.

Batman: He has shown the ability to recover from a broken back stronger then before, was trained by the league of shadows to beat multiple opponents in physical combat, has shown the ability to hang toe to toe with his physical beater Bane, Looks to be in great shape. This is Batman in his prime!

-edge goes to Batman: He deals with his enemies mostly in h2h combat, this is batman in his prime, and he has a stronger showing of physical feats then Dread's limited one move and mostly shooting in that movie.

Verdict

Batman wins this though utilization of his gear which takes away Dreads one advantage that probably would have won him the fight (Batman knocks out his gun and HUD with an EMP); it also knock out the street lights too( you can't fight what you cant see rely, plus the terrain in the dark is a batman candy land; plenty of cover cars buildings a fifty feet start off plus all at night thanks to the EMP from DKR). Batman has a higher showing of physical and h2h feats which would seam to suggest that he would beat Dread in a close encounter. Dreads cowboy like mentality might get him into trouble but I think his years of experience on the force would keep him from doing something stupid or unwise. Batman is a master of surprise, his instincts are superb and his utilization of strategy and train will win this one for the Batman. Take in mind this is Batman in his prime none of that oh I miss Rachel and make stupid decisions crap. It will probably be a good fight but i think the Dark night takes this one!

#69 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon: I like how you gave every edge to Batman. Including experience (Batman had 3 years of crime fighting and then retired....) and Gear you bring up the one time EMP gun as standard everyday gear he carried?

#70 Posted by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I gave the edge to Batman in experience because he has a greater amount of feats to show is advantage in h2h plus three movies. I might have changed my mind in that regard had the movies elaborated more on Dreads feats but (quality over quantity in terms of time wise). I did however mention that he has longer experience then Batman on the force but sense he does not have much showing in the type of experience and feats I had to give it to Batman because he does through the movies. You can only go on what you know, and what you know is only what is given to you. I gave the EMP to batman because he also posses one in his belt which is shown when he fights bane in the sewers in the DKR and sense their is no evidence to show that Dread posses anything that is EMP proof and his main weapon is electronic, EMP beats electronics. I did give Dread the advantage in mentality sense he does have that Killer instinct. I was tempted to put physicals (strength wise) at a draw but sense Batman is in his prime which mean at the best in every aspect I gave it to him and he has a greater showing of physical feats.

#71 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7841 posts) - - Show Bio

@chillinvillain:

You state that Batman would run into a building, and that Dredd will follow. Then argue he has no reason to use flashbang or stun grenades? Have you ever cleared a building? It is SOP for military and special police units (read: SWAT) to use flashbangs to disorient a target when breaching to prevent/minimize friendly casualties.

And for everyone's talking about the EMP gun, let's assume it is standard for a moment. How would Batman know Dredd's gun is electronic from the word go and know to target it with the EMP? Wouldn't he just assume it's another firearm once the battle has begun and Dredd throws lead downrange?

And to everyone talking about TDKR Batman not being in his prime. Which Batman is prime? Begins he is clearly inexperienced, meaning TDK would be his prime right? So a prime Batman that gets mauled by a dog can easily manhandle a trained, experienced, very good, super-cop? I'm not seeing it.

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#72 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Batman has an EMP in his belt as shown in the Bane sewer fight, also Batman's mentality is to fight in the shadows this means he will use the EMP to knock out the city lights (which as a by product) will knock out Dreads equipment (his gun mainly) in the beginning of the fight to give him the terain advantage. I personally don't believe Batman would have to hind in a build when He has an entire darkened city street ally to play with IMO.

#73 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon: Except the EMP is in one movie and not standard at that. I listed many examples how a EMP would be handy for certain situations in Movie 1,2, and 3 yet Bats has none on hand. In no way is it standard.

Alos being in the military Law Enforcement and working on a Seal Base in Little Creek, I see no reason how Dredd who as a judge faces constant wars and strife everyday. he is the Special Forces of Special Forces and unlike the pathetic Swat Team in Gotham, competent with shoot first ask later Rules of Engagement.

Im sorry, but alot of people are showing that they live in a reality where Batman wins this is with legit sneaking around looks rather silly to me.

#74 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7841 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon:

As I, and @cadencev2 have both said, the EMP was shown in one movie, one time. It isn't standard. And he has to aim it. It was a very pinpoint EMP. So he'd need to spam it for the first 30 seconds to a minute of the fight to knock out all the lights and Dredd's equipment. If it is in it's "area of effect" mode, the power of everything it turned off came right back on when he was outside of about 5-10 yards.

And as for Dredd's gun we are assuming Batman will know the gun has a computer in it and target it. Which he doesn't so he wouldn't. The EMP wouldn't disable grenades anyway, they are fuse-primed, not electrical.

But...this is if the EMP is standard, which it isn't.

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#75 Posted by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Batman changed his Batsuit from the first movie to the second movie, then again in the third movie, plus the EMP was on his belt which is own his suit that makes it standard equipment in the DKR. The DKR gear is probably the highest incarnation of Batgear in the movies sense it would be the compilation of all his experience. I don't disagree that Dread would probably shoot first and ask questions latter but Batman's first instinct would probably be to use the EMP in the very beginning of the fight to give him the terrain advantage plus he likes to fight in the shadows. Based on the movies Batman has the greater h2h showings and has fought harder opponents who have beaten SF and Spec Ops. Unless Dreads movie has shown otherwise I think Batman has this.

#76 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Read my last post on the gear thing. Plus he may need to use the EMP more then once on the lights which is inconsequential because their power souse comes from a main generator outside the EMP range. (he has bataranges for those) but he needs to only use it once and the gun and HUD are out for the rest of the fight,because their power sourse is on them which is gone too unlike the lights. (It would probably cause the electronics in his gun to over heat and fry, regardless of that, EMP's kill electrons that means unless Dread has a back up generator, which their is nothing in the movies to show that he does that gun is gone fore good along with his HUD). Batman's EMP on the belt is area based weapon not a point and shoot weapon according to the sewer fight with Bane.

#77 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon said:

@granitesoldier: Read my last post on the gear thing. Plus he may need to use the EMP more then once on the lights which is inconsequential because their power souse comes from a main generator outside the EMP range. (he has bataranges for those) but he needs to only use it once on the gun and HUD and that is out for the rest of the fight which only has the power source he has on him which is also gone too. (It would probably cause the electronics in his gun to over heat and fry, regardless of that, EMP's kill electrons that means unless Dread has a back up generator, which their is nothing in the movies to show that he does that gun is gone fore good along with his HUD).

Too many what ifs here. What if Batman has it as standard? What if he "knows" to use it on Dredd's Gun and Hud?

What if Batman does not have it standard, does not think of using it on Dredd's gun that looks like a normal gun, and what if Dredd shot Batman first seeing a gun like device in his hand?

How about those what ifs?

#78 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7841 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon:

I read your post, and you include a lot of things as standard which aren't. Where did they say the suit changed between TDK and TDKR? It was the same suit, which a dog bit through and Talia put a knife through. Even the far more protective, and less mobile, suit from Batman Begins isn't described as bulletproof. Fox himself (he designed it) says it will protect him from anything but a straight shot. The fact that it stopped Harvey's gunshot is a product of one of two things: PIS bad writing, or, it was a lower caliber revolver (.38 it looks likely to be).

As for beating opponents who "beat SF and Spec Ops" you can't compare the Green Berets in TDKR to what they really are...let alone Dredd. As someone who works in the SOF community, they were portrayed as morons. It never would have gone down that way. And let's say it would have, who said Dredd is only as good as those portrayed? There are levels of SOF, Dredd could very well be beyond a Tier One operator.

And EMPs don't kill electrons. Non-Nuclear EMPs, such as the one Batman uses, create a massive overcharge of electromagnetic radiation which will burn out circuits. And there is no guarantee the EMP would work, that's presumptive. We can protect circuits from EMP effects with today's technology, let alone what they can do with the technology in Dredd. But, that again assumes the EMP is standard, which it is not. And saying it is, doesn't mean it is.

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#79 Posted by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

It is not a what if, It is standard because Batmans in his prime that means he is going to use his best gear. That means he will be using his DKR suit because that is the best gear based on the fact that this is the gear he developed from his experience. Batman adapts to what he learns and that means his gear adapts too every one does it incidentally not just batman. ALso the probability of him suing the EMP in the opening of the fight is high because that is Batman's fighting style. If he is in a light up area he is going to darken it, what is the best way to darken a large area an EMP, so he is going to probably use it. As a byproduct of its usage it will kill all the electrons in the area (that is a scientific fact of what EMPs' do) The only reason the lights on the lamps will eventually come back on if the bulbs don't blow is because their power source is outside the range of the EMP. Dreads power source is on him which means his gear is gone. The EMP is on his BELT the Bane fight scene in the sewers its not a gun and because its on his belt and because he doesn't have to point and shoot it it will go off first. Anyway this whole deabte is basically a bunch of causalities but these causalities are based of what is the most likely to happen and this is the most likely to happen based off batman's fight style and tactics from the movies.

#80 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: His first suit was adapted to use titanium plates because Batman wanted a greater range of motion in the DK plus the suits have obviously changed you just have to look at them in the different movies. So Batman advances his suit and gear. AND since Batman is in his prime he will be using his DKR suit (which is his best suit )which has the EMP on the belt that means its stranded on his suit which means the EMP is stranded. I will concede about EMP's killing electrons however it is also a safe bet that sense batman has access to the most advanced technology and he developed a fusion reactor he has mastered EMP technology and unless the object itself is shielded against weaponized EMPs(which Batman is using), which is bunker level technology on tanks and Vachel levels not a person level the gun is gone and probably the HUD( which their is no evidence to support that his systems are shielded from an EMP I have to rule with the latter and that means the gun along with his HUD is probably countered by the EMP). If you noticed in the Bane fight sense in the sewers the lights did not come back on. Plus a straight shot means that it can protect against gun fire unless the round inter the vest a certain way. Regardless of how the SF and Spec ops acted in the movie which if we want to judge moves as reality their would probably be no need for Batman or Dread if everyone did their jobs as they should. Movie are movies. Also police vest will stop pistols and standard military armor will stop rifled 7.62 rounds. So its safe to say that Batman's suit will stop pistol rounds. (But it really doesn't matter consider Dreads gun would probably shoot through Batman's armor using AP rounds.) From what we know in the movie the Batman uses a weaponized EMP on his belt, their is nothing to suggest that Dread is protected from that, their fore I have to say the EMP knocks out Dread gun and HUD.

#81 Posted by kilon (122 posts) - - Show Bio

i still rote for movie batman.

#82 Posted by jwalser3 (5027 posts) - - Show Bio

DREDD

#83 Posted by KRYPTON (1891 posts) - - Show Bio

Dread. Going with Movie Dread.

  1. He Kills.
  2. Has every conceivable weapons advantage.
  3. Good Shot.
  4. Competent and tactical.
  5. Range > Close Combat in the real world kiddies.

Dread has this, even if he had only one movie to Nolan's three.

You should've just stopped at the first reason. That is the only reason why he's better than Batman.

#84 Posted by Jonny_Rogers (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Do I have to choose? It feels like picking your favourite child.

#85 Posted by anthonygiu (65 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie Batman: Here's why.

Batman has better hand-to-hand combat skills than Dredd.

The rules in this battle doesn't require not only killing but Incapacitation and knockout. So Batman can just knock him out with a tranquilizer batarang.

A lot of people are talking about Batman being beat by Bane in TDKR but remember Batman wasn't in peak condition after being out of the game for 7-8 years just lurking a creepy old man.

Range won't be as effective when Batman uses his flip the lights out gadget and lurk Dredd from the shadows.

Batman is more calculated than Dredd. Head-on maybe Dredd has a chance but given the scenario that they are 50 feet away and a lot of cover in between, Batman takes it.

#86 Edited by Jayc1324 (12291 posts) - - Show Bio

It's say batman wins because of his gear. Dredd can't aim with a smoke bomb in his face. And yes batman would be able to get close enough by distracting him with one no those smoke things he threw at bane and using his stealth to sneak up on him. And batman has dealt with guns many times before. Only time he got shot was when two face did it, but that situation won't happen here

If batman can stay close he should win. He's a ninja

#87 Posted by JuliusTakalua (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_money_christmas: Dude... Dredd was terrible. I'm sorry but it just was. It really was about nothing. No story. No impact. Way too style>substance. It was a mindless fucking action movie that served no purpose in fucking anything. I thought it was mediocore at best when I first watched it then I was dragged to watch it again with my friends. Thought what the hell, since I liked it enough the first time. Then I realised how meaningless a movie it was.

Seriously, can someone tell me what's so great about Dredd? A proper review rather than a big geek-out reaction? Just an honest reveiw of a film that's it.

But towards the subject here, I don't know enough about Dredd. Not enough evidence. Batman took down ninjas and a warlord. He fought off expertly trained operators and a whole swat team. Took out a special forces level trained unit. And has incredible skill and tactics. BUT Dredd is a well trained tactical shooter. He's a great CQB combatant, almost special operational level. But can't see him go into a long-ranged combat situation like an actual SAS or Ranger (rangers take out airfields so yea, long range) level troop. I believe that Batman fought well enough trained CQB and long ranged troops and I don't see how a Judge can spot his stealth that easily. But then again, Batman is fighting Dredd. Dredd is a better and more experienced Judge than others. Proved in the final "act" of the movie when he took out few Judges all in CQB mode. Both Dredd and Bats easily stomps thugs. That's what they do for breakfast anyways.

But I see no chance for Dredd to counter Batman's intelligence and tactics of a person who's trained better than a ninja. No way Dredd can take out the likes of Bane or Batman. Says it's night and downtown. fifty feets? Dredd won't make the first shot. And Batman could easily take out the lights. Then lurk in the dark. Also this isn't CQB so Dredd might be in a bit of trouble. Dredd's mostly about CQB it's something Batman can ignore. IT's the city and it's night and it's Batman. we've seen this in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Even in Rises he was able to take out highly trained killers neglecting CQB's usual rules (which is a trap then set by Bane). Plus he fought in psychological planes which in real life are much harder than purely physical ordeals. Something which can only be trained to the very best. Did not see Dredd fight in such levels. (but Bats did not fight in a "total" pscyhological war with Joker, Ra's, and Bane a lot. Only once with Joker and we could say it was a stalemate) We do not know if Dredd has that kind of mentality. He is a badass but is he just a hunk of a hard bastard or an expert in skills?

Batman wins. But I don't see this as a close win. It's pretty much a stomp. Change the setting to a drug-lord's compound (like the one in the movie Dredd) and I say it's fairer.

#88 Edited by xlab3000 (3280 posts) - - Show Bio
#89 Edited by JuliusTakalua (270 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeeeez in real life a stealth master fucks anybody.

SAS, Spetznaz, Mossad, Shayaret, C.A.G (maybe, depends if they're type of missions have changed since the 80s) ..... they fucking train in CQB as basic and then evolve from there. Why? because they have to be beyond the ordinary run and gun. They literally lurk in the dark. Train to be incredibly low on visuals. And they train in hand>gun a lot (during 14th intelligence days all operators trained in this especially now in the SRR. Most use the mp5 and pistol as standard but also a lot more in stealth and reconnaissance) because they won't have the luxury to use high powered weapons in certain situations.

Batman has better variety at hand and we don't even know his belt and suit's full potential. Plus need I remind you people that Batman was stabbed on the side by a trained killer? No suit can avoid that. A kukri or a bowie could easily kill Dredd. he has a big advantage in terms of tactical gear. his gear in TDK's boat scene alone makes a win. His suit can see everything in a tactical manner right? so what's stopping him from doing that again? In fact does he NEED that thing since his taking down only one guy? He needed it then to get visual on all the terrorists and hostages and see what's happening to them in order for him to form his tactics. SWAT, took out with very little problem.

TO be more clear, Batman wins 8/10. My previous comment (reply) explains my reasons.

#90 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

@chillinvillain:

You state that Batman would run into a building, and that Dredd will follow. Then argue he has no reason to use flashbang or stun grenades? Have you ever cleared a building? It is SOP for military and special police units (read: SWAT) to use flashbangs to disorient a target when breaching to prevent/minimize friendly casualties.

And for everyone's talking about the EMP gun, let's assume it is standard for a moment. How would Batman know Dredd's gun is electronic from the word go and know to target it with the EMP? Wouldn't he just assume it's another firearm once the battle has begun and Dredd throws lead downrange?

And to everyone talking about TDKR Batman not being in his prime. Which Batman is prime? Begins he is clearly inexperienced, meaning TDK would be his prime right? So a prime Batman that gets mauled by a dog can easily manhandle a trained, experienced, very good, super-cop? I'm not seeing it.

Didn't he also have problems with Joker too?

This. Dredd ftw

#91 Edited by Shallbecomeabattoo (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wavemotioncannon: Batman is much more intelligent as Dredd. As soon as Dredd talks to his gun, which he has to do to change ammo, Bruce will know its high tech eletronics and use the EMP. Batman may even use the EMP as soon as Dredd starts shooting, to reduce visibility and take out the Lawgiver by accident that way.

Its really stupid to give Dredd the edge just becaus eof a high tech gun. Come on! Its just a gun, no matter if it shoots exploding rounds or white phosphor, he has to get Batman with it first and I don't think he would use one of the bigger ammo types right away. Batman is used to getting shot at.

Even if we really give Dredd a big point for his gun, he is leagues under Bruce in EVERYTHING ELSE.

Bruce is way smarter (he built a frikkin' sonar cellphone mapping thingy), has much more diverse gear than Dredd (grapnel gun, Batarangs, explosives, sticky gun that shoots explosives, EMP gun/device on his belt, that Bat call thingy in his shoe, gliding cape), is a MUCH better hand to hand fighter (beats up 9 highly trained ninjas/mercenairies without problems, while Dredd gets almost his ass handed to him by ONE opponent) and a ninja master of stealth.

He had problems with Joker because his sonar vision broke down. At the fund raiser he beats up Joker and 5 of his goons without any problems.

With the dogs its the same thing. He took em down no problem at the start of the movie.

Dredd would look pretty stupid, being attacked by three grown rottweilers, at close range. Sure, he would beat those too, but only because he has his gun. Bruce didn't needed a gun for that.

Don't bring up the Bane thing. Bane has low superhuman strenght (punching holes in stone pillars is superhuman) and fought a Batman who sat on his butt for 8 years.

Again... It boggles the mind that Batman doesn't lead the poll with 90%, because there is NO WAY that movie Dredd would take Nolan Bats down. If you think you do, it has to have something to do with your disdain for the Nolan Batmans and not objectivity. As cool as Dredd is... he is only John McClane with a high tech gun.

#92 Posted by johnkmccubbin91 (3486 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm shocked that Dredd is actually winning this.

#93 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

Dredd

#94 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

@shallbecomeabattoo: he didn't build anything Lucius Fox did first off. You're making excuses and using fantasy logic also. Batmans gonna "accidentally" use his NON standard EMP, or he's gonna hear Dredd talking to his gun from 50+ feet away and miraculously deduce his gun is electronic all the while dodging AP rounds, explosive rounds and white phosphor rounds too?

Also I have no disdain for Nolan's Batman, they're some of the best movies I've seen but I'm not a fanboy and I think Dredd can take this due to weaponry and skill.

#95 Posted by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@wavemotioncannon: The EMP is on his belt on the DNR suit, sense Batman is probably going to use the greatest incarnation and developed suit from his crime fighting experience he will probably use the DKR suit (Batman is in his prime). And sense this is a weaponized EMP that means unless Dread's gun is shielded (On the level of an Abrams Tank or Air Force One) which in the movies their is no evidence to even suggest this, the evidence shows that Batman's EMP will knock out Dreads electronic gun and HUD. And Batman loves to fight in the night that means sense he is in a light up street ally and his opponent is 50ft away he will use the EMP to knock out all the lights in the ally and as a byproduct of that Dread's guns eternal electronic will be fried. Dread with out his gun will probably lose this fight against Batman.

#96 Posted by Manchine (4169 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm shocked that Dredd is actually winning this.

Why most people know its obvious that dredd wins this. Pretty much the only thing Batman has over Dredd is HtH.

#97 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon: there's no evidence it isn't seeing as Dredds universe in in the future AFTER a nuclear holocaust that's definitely left residual radiation ( mutants for example) that would screw with electronics so it stands to reason his equipment would be shielded , or being from the future it might just be advanced enough to not be affected. So...

#98 Posted by johnkmccubbin91 (3486 posts) - - Show Bio

@manchine said:

@johnkmccubbin91 said:

I'm shocked that Dredd is actually winning this.

Why most people know its obvious that dredd wins this. Pretty much the only thing Batman has over Dredd is HtH.

Yeah but still a lot of these things land up being more of a popularity contest from what I've seen in other debates.

#99 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7841 posts) - - Show Bio

@avilon:

Air Force One is not EMP shielded. The only EMP shielded aircraft is the Boeing E-4 National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP). Not that it matters to this fight, but yeah still.

@juliustakalua: US Special Operations train in something called SOCP (Special Operations Combatives Program) for their hand to hand needs. It is not about a fist fight, it is about direct blunt force trauma to vulnerable parts of the body allowing you to get back to your weapons and tools to finish the fight. No Operator in their right mind is going to fist fight in a war. I know this, I've been trained in SOCP. SpecOps also rely on stealth because we are in situations where we are outnumbered sometimes 2/3/4+ to one. If you go in guns blazing, yes, you die. But we also don't start 50 feet away from an opponent looking at us. CAG CQB revolves around moving at full speed in tight quarters and still being able to put two rounds in a grouping no larger than someone's eye socket. Most often with a "commando" model M4 (far shorter barrel) and a .45 USP pistol (.45 is a large enough and slow enough round that it wouldn't go through a target and hit a hostage). Not that your information is wholly incorrect, but it sounds like it is incomplete. I only know these things because, well, it's a part of me. And no, none of it is classified or restricted information.

But I don't think my post has anything to do with the battle in discussion here, so who cares right?

Online
#100 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@wavemotioncannon: In Dreads universe most of their shielding came from the Mega-block cities which were specifically shielded from nukes. Also once an EMP goes off and your equipment is turned off before that, it really doesn't effect it you can turn it back on. (most shielding from weaponized EMP's come from the bunkers themselves, so it stands to reason the city its self is shielding enough from an EMP) Their is nothing in the movie to suggest that Dreads gun which runs on electrons (electronics are effected by EMP's so his gun will be effected by it) is shielded from a weaponized EMP so based on what we know in the movies I have to say that Dread's gun get knocked out from Batman's EMP and with out his gun Dread will probably lose the fight.