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Posted by k4tzm4n (40826 posts) 1 year, 1 month ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Movie Black Widow vs. TV Green Arrow (512 votes)

Movie Black Widow 41%
TV Green Arrow 54%
Too close to call 5%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character (both sides think the other is a villain).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night. Assume they start roughly 50 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them.
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
#101 Posted by k4tzm4n (40826 posts) - - Show Bio

@enigmalantern: Heh, no. I came up with the fight last Friday and provided a teaser image for it in CV Battle Results: TMNT vs. Deadpool.

Staff
#102 Posted by csantilli27 (181 posts) - - Show Bio

going with ollie

#103 Posted by Chaos Burn (1783 posts) - - Show Bio

I chose Black Widow, and whilst I have limited knowledge of Green Arrow from the 'Arrow' series, I believe the outcome is more in favor for Natasha due to her high-end skill displayed in Iron Man 2 and Avengers.

Her biggest challenge against Arrow, will be 'closing the gap'. The Marvel films did not show BW versus Hawkeye in open range, so you could doubt her abilities against a guy with a quiver full of arrows and a sharp eye. However, she undeniably has continual pistol use (seen using them in Budapest clip) and could easily combine her accurate shots and amazing agility moves to dodge and fluster Arrow's aim as she closes in on him. If pistols and agility don't cut it, she can release any of the neat gadgets she displayed (taser, rope, gas) to further disrupt Arrows' shots.
Once she gets into H2H, she has Arrow outmatched. She literally took out a couple of thugs with her hands tide behind her back, as well as effortlessly disabling a group of goons in Iron Man 2, and she has the stamina to survive the Chitauri invasion with some impressive (but overshadowed) feats. Arrow has some impressive H2H too, and more examples in his longer running air time, but Natasha's combat skills put her as a questionable above-human, or at least peak human with extensive training.

I see this ending with Arrow eventually taking an electric punch to a vulnerable body spot, and Black Widow walking off with Arrow's bow as a present for Clint...

8/10 for Black Widow

#104 Posted by DonFelipe (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

@dratini1331: Deadshot is actually a recurring villain because he has a history with Diggle. He appears in the episodes "The Lone Gunman", "Dead to rights" and "Home Invasion"

IMDB might help: 3 16 20.

@the_stegman: Really? I'll have to go watch them. I've been trying to catch every Deathstroke one though, since it's John Barrowman. I can't say no to Captain Jack =P

John Barrowman plays Malcolm Merlyn aka "The Dark Archer"; he appears in a few more episodes.

#105 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio
#106 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane

Again, Hawkeye is certainly a better archer, but considering he didn't fire a single shot against Widow and went H2H against her (a field he's featless in),

That's not true.

Watch to 0:18

Personally I gotta go with too close to call. Both characters have the reflexes to avoid whatever long-range projectiles the other can throw. Black Widow has shown that she does have the ability to dodge arrows in her fight with Hawkeye (who I'd say is a better marksman than Oliver). And if anybody's watched any episode of Arrow, they'll find that Arrow is more than capable of avoiding bullets. Even from the (supposedly) most accurate assassin in the world, Deadshot. Now Oliver does have some trick arrows such as explosive arrows and flash bang arrows. But quite frankly, I think chances of him using one of those here are low. IIRC, he never uses one of those bad boys to take down just one opponent. He always uses them when there's a crowd. I could see it happening one or maybe even two times out of ten fights. But just due to his style, I find it pretty unlikely Natasha is going down by a trick arrow.

So I really think this is going down to close combat, and I think that'd be very interesting to see. You got The Hood, who has a very unique style when it comes to close combat. His style is a little mixed. You see some commando-like moves (much like Slade Wilson's, which makes sense) pretty often. But he's also a bouncing-off-the-walls type of guy. He's very agile and uses that agility as well as the environment in combat. Something else to note is that he uses arrows and throwing knives in close combat, which could be interesting in the fight. I definitely see potential for Oliver to wound Natasha with one of those, which would decrease her performance. And speaking of that sexy redhead, she's pretty damn unique as well in her hand-to-hand. As would you expect, she's got some moves that remind of commandos as well. But her style mainly consists of some serious agility. She'll flip you, she'll crawl over and under, she'll throw you in some graceful way (sounds very sexual I know). Each contender also has a distinct advantage in close combat. For Oliver, it's strength. I mean have you seen the guns that guy has? He's absolutely ripped! And because of that, Oliver is going to throw the harder hits. And he'll be harder to take down. But then Black Widow also makes use of a variety of gadgets. She's got mini-flash bangs, mini-taser-whatchamacallthem-things, pepper spray. Oliver may be jacked with biceps, but Black Widow is jacked with all sorts of asskicking goodies.

So in conclusion, each one is too evenly matched. Both of them have what it takes to close the gap, and get up close. And from there, they are just so evenly matched. Both have similar hand-to-hand combat styles, displaying agility as well as martial arts training. Oliver has a strength advantage, Natasha has a gadgets advantage. I really think it is just too close to call.

#107 Posted by TDK_1997 (14704 posts) - - Show Bio

It will be a good battle but in the end Arrow should win.He has had better training and more and better feats than Widow.

#108 Edited by Denn979 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow is the best live action TV show ever. BUT the BEST TV show ever would be Young Justice.

#109 Posted by Black_Arrow (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

close fight widow can dodge arrows and oliver can dodge bullets. In the end i think that oliver has better 2h2 feasts like the fight against the hitman, the fight against Deadshot, the fight against Merilyn. He has better training from Slade (Australian Secret Intelligence Service), Shado ( Has training from his father, chinise militar). Also he can beat Diggle (Special forces)

#110 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1319 posts) - - Show Bio

There's not enough of widow on screen to call this. As such and as much as it pains me green arrow wins.

#111 Posted by S3kShun62 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering we've been given a lot of history on the TV show Green Arrow, we know that he has spent at least 5+ years training on an island in various forms of martial arts and with various weapons. From the movie appearances of Black Widow, we know that she has some serious skills with both hand to hand combat and various weapons, both close and long ranged. This almost makes it too close to call, but I cast my vote with Oliver Queen. I say this because we've seen more of what he has to offer, and we know more about his training regimen and what he actually does. His ability to remain quiet and approach his target without them detecting him is a plus, and you can't ignore the fact that if he gets away for a couple of seconds, he can blend into the crowd by changing back to Oliver Queen (he does this in the show a lot). It's also easier to let loose and arrow and have it remain undetected in the dark than it is to hide the muzzle flash of a pistol. We've seen too little on Black Widow, other than her just being a complete badass and taking on some thugs and aliens, but we know she is highly skilled, and has spent more time training and honing her skills than Arrow. This is probably the closest match I've seen in a while, but I still believe that Green Arrow will take the lead in a range fight. A close combat fight may prove to be the deciding factor. Arrow it is though.

#112 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

As I said above, I agree, Ollie would win this, but I really think it's gonna turn into a popularity contest, more people like Avengers than Arrow so they'll vote for her. Hell, the first comment on the other page says "I've never seen Arrow, so I vote BW" how the hell can you vote against someone you've never seen before??

I can't really comment because I gleefully played the popularity game on the Deathstroke vs Ultimate Cap thread :P

But yeah, popularity will play a factor. Not much you can do about it.

>_>

#113 Edited by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

tv arrow will smash her. Watch the show and he has way better showings. Widow vs hawkeye was a great fight but oliver is way better. This might be a popularity contest in the end but there is no doubt oliver is a better fighter. Widow might have more training but arrow fought against an army for 5 years and was trained by slade.

#114 Posted by MonsterStomp (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

Bullets trump arrows any day of the week. Widow wins

Yeah.. Green Arrow's fight with Deadshot has no merit here...

#115 Posted by youmessinwithme (1187 posts) - - Show Bio

she'll be in Cap Am 2 the winter soldier, i imagine she'll have much better feats then.

#116 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7539 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to say Widow, but for either character it is by no means easy. As many others have said Widow is familiar with fighters of the bow persuasion, a la Hawkeye, which will be important. The biggest problem for me is that Arrow does have more showings (TV series vs movies) but I think the showings Widow does have are worthwhile. An important thing to remember is that the movie/TV universes are not the Marvel and DC universes. Yes Arrow was trained by Slade, but who's to say the TV Slade is as skilled as the comic Slade? There's nothing that says he is except a name, but again they are not the same person.

Anyway let's start with Widow's showings in Iron Man 2. The impressive thing is not that she beat up a bunch of goons, so much as the fact that she did it without even paying attention to them. She was hardly giving them the time of day and easily dispatching them. Plus, we saw that she carries with her those little shock disks, which one would assume are standard equipment if she just randomly pulled them from her belt.

In Avengers, I didn't so much find it impressive she beat Hawkeye (I'd frankly be more surprised if she hadn't) but that she did it after getting hit by the Hulk. No it wasn't a full bore hit, and he wasn't looking to kill her, but it is still a shot from a (quite angry) Hulk, which shows she can take some punishment, then still go out and kick someone's teeth in. Of course there were the showings in her fight against Hawkeye, dodging his shot etc, and that I think many have elaborated on, but it is important to note she can dodge an arrow at close range with relatively little cover and knows how to fight while continually breaking line of sight to prevent rapid shots put out at her (sliding under the walkway etc).

It is arguable about whether or not the Chitauri are above human in their statistics, but it should be noted that they could crumple car hoods by standing on them, so they are definitely bigger and heavier than a human. Couple that note with how she fought off many (arguably dozens) at once, shows that she has a great endurance in a straight fight. It may not be as skilled a showing as fighting Hawkeye, but it shows her endurance for a long fight against a superhuman enemy.

Another thing I have not yet seen brought up, if you had and I just read past it I apologize, is her stealth aspects. Hawkeye said himself it was out of character for Widow, a spy, to want to "wade into a war" and fight on the front lines. She managed to sneak up on Loki, a God of trickery and deception. She is clearly a very capable stealthy combatant, and I think if they fight "in character" that that will be how she fights. Stealth first. Plus, again shown with Loki and when she was being interrogated, she is not above playing the vulnerable, helpless, apologetic woman to gain a psychological edge. Even if Arrow is pulling a lead, if she plays that card I think it'd throw his game for that split moment for Widow to take advantage. I think she is a more ruthless and heartless fighter of the two.

I say Widow goes for stealth early. Sneaks up on Arrow to make an easy headshot. Or sneaks up and uses her stun disks to immobilize Arrow, before going in for the big hits with her stun gloves before finishing with a close range shot. Or use her stealth to get in close and make this a hand to hand competition, but when she sees how even they are in a fight will resort to more of her stunning equipment. These are possibles, there are any number of back and forths that can be argued, but in the end I think Widow wins 6/10 fights.

#117 Posted by Ama_Sama (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver Queen takes the win. I think the tv version of the character has a broader spectrum of skills than the movie version of Natasha. In a battle of the comic book versions of the characters, things might be reversed.

#118 Edited by Grim (2079 posts) - - Show Bio

I look at the debaters flooding the comments section, and i see a lot of people forgetting/disregarding which Black Widow and Green Arrow we are talking about here. While the comics heroes would probably have an amazing fight, the Movie Black Widow Vs the Tv Shows Arrow is not that fight.

When we look at Arrow, we see a character brought WAY down from his comics counterpart. His training is nearly halved. His personal motivation is askew. And he lives in a universe where the villains are basically designed for him to have a shot at them (see the countless arguments on Green Arrow/Deathtroke fights). Bottom line: he wins a lot of fights and looks awesome doing it, but its in a world designed for him to seem really cool... which creates a biased in favor of his existence. There is no one in that world who couldnt be beaten by someone with survival skills, a good physique, and dedication.

On the other hand, we have Ironman/Avengers Black Widow. Raised in the life of espionage.Training in place of a childhood. Combat and agility and stealth practically define her adult life. She lives in a world where shes one of the best in the world... and is still sharing the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to superheroes. We have seen her carry out feats similar to Tv Show Arrow's ( fighting hallways of semi-trained guards in Ironman2, beating up armed thugs while handcuffed to a chair and the battle with Trance-Hawkeye in Avengers compare to any thug or villain fight Arrow has had). But we have also seen her out-maneuver Hulk for a short time, and combat waves of never-before-seen alien soldiers, with weapons and strengths beyond that of men. In the Avengers Universe of gods and genetic freaks, she still manages to be a valuable player on the field.

In The Arrow TV show world, movie Natasha would be the greatest threat Arrow has ever faced. In the Avengers world, Ollie would be a slightly more challenging threat Black Widow had to handle between WORLD SAVING SUPER POWERED AVENGERS MISSIONS.

Black Widow takes 9/10 times.

#119 Posted by charlieboy (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

Natasha FTW. She has proven able to dodge arrow's during the movie. Also Arrow is not infallible with his shots. He misses quite a bit. She is far more agile than he is.. Natasha is a trained Shield agent. Also if they go h2h she could just drop him with her widow's bite. The people who say that Ollie being a man is an advantage are completely wrong. That means noting in a comic book world. The Huntress gave Ollie a hard time and she showed nowhere near the skills that Black Widow has. She has lots of experience working with an archer and probably spars with Hawkeye all the time. I do think that Widow dodging Hawkeye's arrow is telling because Hawkeye showed far more accurracy in combat than Ollie.

#120 Posted by GothamRed (2563 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you see Iron Man 2, the laws of physics don't apply to movie black widow.

#121 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Too close to call for me to be quite honest.

#122 Edited by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: Pistols are not a long range weapon; they are a short to medium range weapon in terms of firearms. Pistols accuracy is in the realm of around 120 to150ft with skilled marksmen with the type of gun she is using, arrows can range any-were from 80 to150 yards depending on the bow. Considering as how this fight starts at only 50ft though it should not matter unless the combatants try to distance themselves which could happen because I could see them trying to rely on their ranged weapons and maybe not close the gap.

#123 Posted by Alak (926 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted Widow because:

  • She seems to be a faster combatant in her scenes than Arrow. Although, it could just be the choreography that makes Arrow seem awkward/sluggish at times. Even in the scene that was heavily inspired from the Raid, there were some parts that looked too much like acting as opposed to fighting.
  • Handguns are more practical than bows. I took a class in archery and my buddy taught me how to use a gun, so that's how I came to this conclusion.
  • Widow has proven that she is capable of fighting trained male combatants who are larger and stronger than she is. Should it come to grappling, the woman has tasers built into her gauntlets. Arrow's suit isn't insulated.

I admit that Arrow has a ton of more combat feats than Widow. My vote is simply based off the potential that Widow brings to the fight. Given the scenes that we have of her, I honestly do believe that she can take the majority against Arrow.

#124 Edited by sinestro_GL (3127 posts) - - Show Bio

We've seen Ollie do some crazy feats during the first season of Arrow, and that's why I'm giving my vote to him. The torment he suffered as a result on being on that island, trained none other than Slade Wilson, i.e. Deathstroke, fighting the armed militants for 5 years, should already be enough for him to overcome Widow.

However, once he returned to Starling City, he was faced with new, and arguably more difficult challenges (Count Vertigo, Firefly, Deadshot, Huntress (Bertinelli)) including Merlyn who is a better archer than Ollie (so can we agree to nullify Black Widow's result against Hawkeye in the movie?). He's been tortured, poisoned, beaten and clinically dead, yet always manages to come out on top.

All in all, this is due to the limited feats we've seen Black Widow perform in the two films she's been in. She took down some low-level guards and thugs, K.O.'ed Hawkeye (which we've agreed to nullify), and defeated some Chitauri members and as some users mentioned a few months ago, the Chitauri never actually harmed a human on-screen.

There's really only one outcome based on the on-screen feats of these two.

#125 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@pwok21 said:

Green Arrow has a ton more feats than Black Widow, with his standard gear and skill set I can see him taking down Natalya.

Yeah, obviously GA has fought Aliens with advanced weapons,....just sayin'

#126 Posted by saumiyan (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going with Green Arrow, because:

1.he has the advantage when it comes to range

2.he shoots his arrow very accuratly, even when he is drugged, and the dark doesnt affect the accuracy either

3.eventhough they start 50 feet away, he doesnt need to go closer to shoot his target. He can go backwards, so that he gets even more advantage over black widow.

#127 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Close match! Wow!

#128 Edited by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: It seems like everyone's going with Arrow, but if you haven't seen the Avengers movie, I highly suggest you do. Black Widow's a complete beast in that film and faces multiple enemies simultaneously including fighting off the Chautari army. Now, if Green Arrow, specifically from the one in my most favorite TV series of all time, is able to do what Black Widow does then he would be a boss! However, the feats given from each film makes me think that Black Widow has the clear advantage in this fight with agility, speed, and tactics that she showcases. My edge goes to Black Widow from the Avengers movie.

#129 Posted by beatboks1 (7162 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally love this weeks fight man.

Gotta say for me this is a very close one.

The feats of Ollie in the ep where he freed his step dad the safe house where he was being held by Merlin's goons very much mirrored Widows hallway fight in IM2. Same level of Skill same result against similar type of protagonist ( if anything Ollie's adversaries should have been slightly more skilled than the rent-a-cops widow took down but that's pure speculation on my part).

I've seen the whole "she has better gear more firepower" argument played out so far. Honestly if that's the best you guy's have it's really a bit lackluster. Her firepower and gear is no better than what Floyde Lawton (Deadshot) had in the series and certainly doesn't trump a god damn rocket launcher used by Fyres on the island.

What really tips it for me is the fight alongside the Avengers in NY. Not the so much the actual level of skill shown ( which was by no means wanting let me tell you) but more because her more than anywhere else Widow was shown facing MUCH greater odds than those faced by Ollie on screen thus far. Was the skill of those numbers high? Not really, but they were armored and had superior weapons

Widow in a well fought battle IMO

#130 Posted by KINCART (222 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda feel like some of the people voting have never seen Arrow Because if they had there is noway they would be voting for Black Widow.

#131 Posted by sinestro_GL (3127 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: It seems like everyone's going with Arrow, but if you haven't seen the Avengers movie, I highly suggest you do. Black Widow's a complete beast in that film and faces multiple enemies simultaneously including fighting off the Chautari army. Now, if Green Arrow, specifically from the one in my most favorite TV series of all time, is able to do what Black Widow does then he would be a boss! However, the feats given from each film makes me think that Black Widow has the clear advantage in this fight with agility, speed, and tactics that she showcases. My edge goes to Black Widow from the Avengers movie.

To be fair, there are a number of voters that haven't watched 'Arrow' and yet still voted, so this whole issue of dubious voting shouldn't be raised against either character.

Also, I seem to recall several users mentioning a while back that the Chitauri never actually physically harmed a civilian in the movie.

#132 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5524 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted Arrow. I know that he has only been training for five years, but those five years, were him in the middle of a war. He learned on the job and has become a fully forged commando. His first real Bow required the ability to pull one hundred and fifty pounds with one arm. He gave chase to a motorcycle on foot. Nearly manipulated a polygraph, and has fought multiple master Assassins, both in range and close combat. Deadshot, Mr Blank, Constantine Drakon, and a some what similar opponent in China White. If we use all their skills, then Ollie is just as superhuman as Tasha is. The motorcycle chase for one. Hearing the triad outside of Laurels apartment while they set in her living room during a conversation. Sensed Mr Blank from behind, and Dodged two bullets a second before they were shot. Fighting while overdosed on pure vertigo. He fought in pure h2h against multiple opponents, because Diggle refused to give him his bow. Took three arrows to the back, then got his ribs broken, but still was up and fighting weeks later. Could have been earlier but Merlyn shook him up. He planned his own arrest, based off a feeling that Diggle would come to his aid. He had the luxury of having two instructors, who are more then capable of fighting, and defeating military personel by the score. I love Widow and I believe that she could win this also. But stealth and working alongside another archer is not everything. Ollie has more in common with Widow then Clint, as his training from Shado and Slade has made him more Ninja-Marine, then straight out sniper or grunt. I see Widows two handed shots causing her problems with Queen. There is a reason ranges require you to shoot a certain way. If they get close, I think she would cause problems with her speed, and she is extremely strong as well. But Ollie would most likely knock her out then kill her and the fight would be over. She had to bite Clint in order to get him off of her. If Ollie can get her in the choking move Yao Fei taught him, he could take it by submission.

#133 Posted by desmond006 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

Judging from the quality of feats instead of quantity I might give it to widow.

#134 Posted by doombot890 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: sorry its just a no brainer really. there's a lot that is implied and not needed to be shown in avengers because of what she is and the organisation she is apart of. Just because we don't really see it doesnt make her any less than Ollie. It makes her more in fact. she is black ops and wouldnt get seen doing showy crap unless she needs to. she's far too skilled to be taken out by some chump with a bow.

#135 Posted by doombot890 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@michael_moran: sorry in what world does saving the world from an alien invasion and tricking the god of mischief pale in comparison to beating up a few criminals???

#136 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

popularity polls are popular... with Arrow fanboys... meh

Come on the movie Black Widow is fighting galactic level threats as well as street level, and, as shown in flashback- military level.

Arrow has nothing to compare to this. I don't think I am liking this feature that much anymore Mr. Katzman... fanboys have ruined it and made it less about the fight as presented, and more about who they wish would win. I will not be playing anymore... thanks for the fish

#137 Edited by marvelftw (73 posts) - - Show Bio

It kinda bugs me how people are saying Widow tanked a hit from the Hulk. Honestly, it looks like Hulk was chasing after her and one of his arms just accidentally hit her cuz we all know how our arms move when we run. If it was a legitimate swing, then I don't think Black Widow would've survived to tell the tale lol

#138 Posted by Wolverine08 (41172 posts) - - Show Bio

It kinda bugs me how people are saying Widow tanked a hit from the Hulk. Honestly, it looks like Hulk was chasing after her and one of his arms just accidentally hit her cuz we all know how our arms move when we run. If it was a legitimate swing, then I don't think Black Widow would've survived to tell the tale lol

This.

Online
#139 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5237 posts) - - Show Bio

Chicks before dicks. lol

The Arrow T.V was boring for me. No offense to the fans. I like the G.A. from smallville a lot better. That and the logic of guns against arrows?

Widow has my vote.

#140 Posted by VioletPhoenix (300 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me break it down for you:

Personally I voted too close to call. They both even employ body contact flips easily, Widow against Hammer's bodyguards, Arrow against the assassin who came after him in his house (the flip trick he learned from Yao Fei's battle with Deathstroke). While they both are crazy agile, skilled and throw a barrage of hits at once, there is a key difference.

Widow is precision fight-skill trained, Arrow is not (as far as we know).

The two times we've seen Arrow get taken down easily by a better trained and further experienced combatant, the Dark Archer Merlyn. Merlyn took Ollie down because his training was superior and sought out, it was honed in Nanda Parbat where he went to become the Dark Archer, and this honed skill proved superior to Arrow's asskickery. much like Black Widow.

Black Widow has extensive SHIELD training, pre-SHIELD training, miscellaneous martial arts skills and was a hand to hand combating spy for years. This extensive background much like MERLYN'S, I feel gives her the edge 3 out of 5 times in a battle with Arrow, she could take him down much like Merlyn did. Not to mention she's familiar with Archers and their methods so she could dodge an arrow attack.

BUT and this is an important but, Arrow is a wildcard. We don't know exactly what happened in 5 years to turn him into the weapon he is. He fights like he has nothing to lose, and his official untrained background might give him a slight edge, it makes him unpredictable. Wildcard.

Too close to call.

#141 Edited by viin (573 posts) - - Show Bio

Do Black Widows guns and range attacks even matter?...I cant even remember her shooting anybody...besides that stupid part in Avengers where she is able to use the alien tech.

#142 Posted by KidSupreme (829 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Green Arrow too... but I'm biased I vote for DC all the way no matter what.

#143 Posted by MonsterStomp (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@pwok21 said:

Green Arrow has a ton more feats than Black Widow, with his standard gear and skill set I can see him taking down Natalya.

Yeah, obviously GA has fought Aliens with advanced weapons,....just sayin'

Yeah.. Aliens that have shown next to nothing.

#144 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@goddamnironman said:

@pwok21 said:

Green Arrow has a ton more feats than Black Widow, with his standard gear and skill set I can see him taking down Natalya.

Yeah, obviously GA has fought Aliens with advanced weapons,....just sayin'

Yeah.. Aliens that have shown next to nothing.

okay, so what has GA has done that prove he is better than BW? H2H skills? but the rule is both characters are from TV and Movie, not from the comic book original source. So gets your fact right 1st, before you start to mock the others.

#145 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to say Widow, but for either character it is by no means easy. As many others have said Widow is familiar with fighters of the bow persuasion, a la Hawkeye, which will be important. The biggest problem for me is that Arrow does have more showings (TV series vs movies) but I think the showings Widow does have are worthwhile. An important thing to remember is that the movie/TV universes are not the Marvel and DC universes. Yes Arrow was trained by Slade, but who's to say the TV Slade is as skilled as the comic Slade? There's nothing that says he is except a name, but again they are not the same person.

Anyway let's start with Widow's showings in Iron Man 2. The impressive thing is not that she beat up a bunch of goons, so much as the fact that she did it without even paying attention to them. She was hardly giving them the time of day and easily dispatching them. Plus, we saw that she carries with her those little shock disks, which one would assume are standard equipment if she just randomly pulled them from her belt.

In Avengers, I didn't so much find it impressive she beat Hawkeye (I'd frankly be more surprised if she hadn't) but that she did it after getting hit by the Hulk. No it wasn't a full bore hit, and he wasn't looking to kill her, but it is still a shot from a (quite angry) Hulk, which shows she can take some punishment, then still go out and kick someone's teeth in. Of course there were the showings in her fight against Hawkeye, dodging his shot etc, and that I think many have elaborated on, but it is important to note she can dodge an arrow at close range with relatively little cover and knows how to fight while continually breaking line of sight to prevent rapid shots put out at her (sliding under the walkway etc).

It is arguable about whether or not the Chitauri are above human in their statistics, but it should be noted that they could crumple car hoods by standing on them, so they are definitely bigger and heavier than a human. Couple that note with how she fought off many (arguably dozens) at once, shows that she has a great endurance in a straight fight. It may not be as skilled a showing as fighting Hawkeye, but it shows her endurance for a long fight against a superhuman enemy.

Another thing I have not yet seen brought up, if you had and I just read past it I apologize, is her stealth aspects. Hawkeye said himself it was out of character for Widow, a spy, to want to "wade into a war" and fight on the front lines. She managed to sneak up on Loki, a God of trickery and deception. She is clearly a very capable stealthy combatant, and I think if they fight "in character" that that will be how she fights. Stealth first. Plus, again shown with Loki and when she was being interrogated, she is not above playing the vulnerable, helpless, apologetic woman to gain a psychological edge. Even if Arrow is pulling a lead, if she plays that card I think it'd throw his game for that split moment for Widow to take advantage. I think she is a more ruthless and heartless fighter of the two.

I say Widow goes for stealth early. Sneaks up on Arrow to make an easy headshot. Or sneaks up and uses her stun disks to immobilize Arrow, before going in for the big hits with her stun gloves before finishing with a close range shot. Or use her stealth to get in close and make this a hand to hand competition, but when she sees how even they are in a fight will resort to more of her stunning equipment. These are possibles, there are any number of back and forths that can be argued, but in the end I think Widow wins 6/10 fights.

@grim said:

I look at the debaters flooding the comments section, and i see a lot of people forgetting/disregarding which Black Widow and Green Arrow we are talking about here. While the comics heroes would probably have an amazing fight, the Movie Black Widow Vs the Tv Shows Arrow is not that fight.

When we look at Arrow, we see a character brought WAY down from his comics counterpart. His training is nearly halved. His personal motivation is askew. And he lives in a universe where the villains are basically designed for him to have a shot at them (see the countless arguments on Green Arrow/Deathtroke fights). Bottom line: he wins a lot of fights and looks awesome doing it, but its in a world designed for him to seem really cool... which creates a biased in favor of his existence. There is no one in that world who couldnt be beaten by someone with survival skills, a good physique, and dedication.

On the other hand, we have Ironman/Avengers Black Widow. Raised in the life of espionage.Training in place of a childhood. Combat and agility and stealth practically define her adult life. She lives in a world where shes one of the best in the world... and is still sharing the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to superheroes. We have seen her carry out feats similar to Tv Show Arrow's ( fighting hallways of semi-trained guards in Ironman2, beating up armed thugs while handcuffed to a chair and the battle with Trance-Hawkeye in Avengers compare to any thug or villain fight Arrow has had). But we have also seen her out-maneuver Hulk for a short time, and combat waves of never-before-seen alien soldiers, with weapons and strengths beyond that of men. In the Avengers Universe of gods and genetic freaks, she still manages to be a valuable player on the field.

In The Arrow TV show world, movie Natasha would be the greatest threat Arrow has ever faced. In the Avengers world, Ollie would be a slightly more challenging threat Black Widow had to handle between WORLD SAVING SUPER POWERED AVENGERS MISSIONS.

Black Widow takes 9/10 times.

These!

#146 Posted by Avilon (118 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't voted yet but I was wondering, sense BW fighting style is highly acrobatic based of IM2 and Avengers (A bit flashy in my opinion too) wouldn't it also be a draw back? Because the way I see it once she commits to a particular action she is committed and vulnerable to a counter move, IMO, does anyone else see that?

#147 Posted by MonsterStomp (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@goddamnironman said:

@pwok21 said:

Green Arrow has a ton more feats than Black Widow, with his standard gear and skill set I can see him taking down Natalya.

Yeah, obviously GA has fought Aliens with advanced weapons,....just sayin'

Yeah.. Aliens that have shown next to nothing.

okay, so what has GA has done that prove he is better than BW? H2H skills? but the rule is both characters are from TV and Movie, not from the comic book original source. So gets your fact right 1st, before you start to mock the others.

Wtf? I know they're TV and Movie versions. I was just saying that the aliens Widow fought have shown no feats to make those fights credible. And yes, you clearly haven't been keeping up with Arrow if you think Widow takes this. Green Arrow has done what Widow has and some.

#148 Edited by DarkerPhoenix (21 posts) - - Show Bio

ollie

#149 Posted by capamerica7 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

It comes to that 50 ft. If she can avoid his arsenal of arrows using the provided cover and her own agility, I believe she would be superior to him in hand-to-hand combat, and therefore defeat him. That's IF she can get past his wall of arrows. I could see it going both ways, so I can't say.

Oh wait, she has a gun. Black Widow wins.

#150 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@goddamnironman said:

@monsterstomp said:

@goddamnironman said:

@pwok21 said:

Green Arrow has a ton more feats than Black Widow, with his standard gear and skill set I can see him taking down Natalya.

Yeah, obviously GA has fought Aliens with advanced weapons,....just sayin'

Yeah.. Aliens that have shown next to nothing.

okay, so what has GA has done that prove he is better than BW? H2H skills? but the rule is both characters are from TV and Movie, not from the comic book original source. So gets your fact right 1st, before you start to mock the others.

Wtf? I know they're TV and Movie versions. I was just saying that the aliens Widow fought have shown no feats to make those fights credible. And yes, you clearly haven't been keeping up with Arrow if you think Widow takes this. Green Arrow has done what Widow has and some.

No feats from BW?! what?! She picked up a piece of Chitauri weapon, and immediately learned how to use them....I bet you can't learn how to use a mouse when you 1st picked it up. Joking aside, she can 1 vs 10 others while on the bridge, before Rogers came. And how about an agile jump from the bridge to one of the flying Chitauri surfer....the agility and reflexes needed is beyond what GA has shown in 'Arrow'.

And Lot more, if you want me to continue, but I guess it's fair to be your turn now. NO hard feelings.