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Posted by k4tzm4n (36106 posts) 11 months, 24 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Movie Black Widow vs. TV Green Arrow (512 votes)

Movie Black Widow 41%
TV Green Arrow 54%
Too close to call 5%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character (both sides think the other is a villain).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night. Assume they start roughly 50 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them.
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
#51 Edited by Loki9876 (2992 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow dudes
Green arrow can't handle this:

#52 Posted by Captain13 (3239 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow. This is going to be a close range fight since both characters are great at dodging projectiles. And Widow has better physical feats like taking a hit from the Hulk and grabbing a hold of a flying object without having her arms ripped out of their sockets. She also has shown more skill with her vale-tudo inspired style of fighting.

#53 Posted by butters911 (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow for the win!

#54 Posted by CheeseSticks (2359 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow destroy

#55 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4774 posts) - - Show Bio

Bullets trump arrows any day of the week. Widow wins

#56 Posted by ShadowX (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I'm gonna put up some feats for Natasha..

She tricked the trickster god. Yes this is a fight and you can argue this skil won't be needed. But what if Widow were to use this skill, she has been shown.to be able to manipulate and gain information from others, even the master of it Loki. She mayBe able to use this to lure arrow into a trap of some kind.

She has been shown that she can easily escape and fight in a situation where she is at a disadvantage such as the scene in russia. Where she fought somebody while tied up.

She has been shown to take advantage of the enviornment and even her enemies weapons, figuring out away to take control of one of the Chutari fighters.

She has plenty of experience as a S.H.I.E.L.D agent..

I have a feeling that people are going to pick arrow but black widow shouldn be underestimated. I still havent picked because i havent watched arrow. I wonder if this fight would be differnt if it happens after Captain America 2 comes out. I ahve a feeling Black Widow will have much better showing there.

#57 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow fo sho.

#58 Posted by MatteoPG (1877 posts) - - Show Bio

@themanintheshoe: You should vote if you know both sides... otherwise it's a misinformed vote.

#59 Posted by lantian1 (149 posts) - - Show Bio

Does what Black Widow wears have the same bullet stopping ability that Fury's does?

I'm not certain but I thought that's what all the SHIELD agents wore

#60 Posted by ShadowX (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

@lantian1: Its never been confirmed i think. But I would think so.

#61 Posted by lantian1 (149 posts) - - Show Bio

That would mean Ollie would need a head shot compared to her just shooting for centre mass

As for the hand-to-hand one strike from the tazer gloves and unlike the Chitauri he will be down.

#62 Posted by Barkley (270 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow... she is hotter....lol

#63 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@krspacet: Ollie is far too disciplined to fall for that. He is not the Ollie from the comics. This dude is more like Wayne or Castle. Ollie breaks her.

#64 Edited by TheBlackHood (289 posts) - - Show Bio

Its the abs, always the abs. I honestly think that the fight is going to come down to who can take more punishment. Anyone that has watched Arrow has seen that Ollie's body is "roadmap of pain" from years of torture. And let's not forget that after being chased by the Hulk, Black Widow was basically in the corner trying to keep herself from crying. Arrow can just take more abuse and will outlast Black Widow.

#65 Edited by DEGRAAF (7866 posts) - - Show Bio

#66 Posted by potter1000 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@loki9876 said:

Black Widow dudes

Green arrow can't handle this:

Arrow has a comparable feat. Granted he got out of the handcuffs BEFORE fighting, he still dodges bullets multiple times in the scene.

#67 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32047 posts) - - Show Bio

@syncig said:

Black Widow easily and I am a fan of Arrow. A career as a spy vs 5 years on an island and then time as a vigilante. I don't think there is any debate but the voting so far disagrees with me.

5 years on an island being trained by Deathstroke and Shado >>>> spy training

#68 Edited by A_wahab_ (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow wins...he was put on an island where he's even met Deathstroke who every1 knows is one of the deadliest assassins and supervillains in the comic book universe. We see him becoming friends with Oliver and help him train blablabla Arrow wins :P

#69 Posted by Oscars94 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio

@syncig: THIS! She's trained longer.

#70 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32047 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Posted by QueenCorp15 (1018 posts) - - Show Bio

By far green arrow ftw

#72 Posted by fables87 (918 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason Black Widow will loose:

#73 Edited by nigravirum1 (139 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay let me just say that Green Arrow is almost my favorite comic book character of all time and I have watched every episode of Arrow live.... that being said Oliver has shown some weakness in the show. Yes he is quite the ripped, kick-a** looking kind-of character and just how muscular he is frightens every part of my being, but lets face facts.... He got his butt handed to him 3/4 times he faced the Dark Archer/Malcolm Merlyn. If this were like the 3rd season of Arrow (when he is hopefully gonna be even better at fighting than what he already is) I would probably say him. But as we evaluate Black Widow.... well lets just say I pee myself whenever I think about crossing her in a dark alley. Natasha lasted her own in the movie against the Hulk for quite a bit.... yes she almost got pummeled in the end but she lasted a lot longer than most people do against the Hulk. I think Black Widow would win because she is the better fighter, which has proven to be enough to beat Oliver in the Arrowverse. Sorry Ollie!

#74 Posted by ImmortalOne (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@themanintheshoe said:

Since I don't watch Arrow my vote goes to Black Widow, since I know her skills.

@g_money_christmas said:

I chose Black Widow but I don't really know anything about the TV show Green Arrow so I'm not sure about it.

If you only know about one person in the battle, then just don't vote. It's not like you're forced to vote for one of them- you have a choice whether to vote or not. Would you just randomly vote for a presidential candidate because you didn't know about the other person?

#75 Posted by Dratini1331 (6883 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll just copy and paste what I put on the other page to save me some time and effort.

It's obvious this battle is gonna be heavily biased from the beginning due to people

A. Not watching Arrow, thus being ignorant to Oliver's skills

or

B. Not liking Arrow and picking Widow simply because they like her better.

The truth is, Oliver has her outclassed in almost every category.

Let’s go over Black Widow’s feats shall we? She:

1. Took down some nameless, fodder guards in Iron Man 2

2. Took down more fodder mobsters in Avengers while tied up (Something Ollie also does in the early episodes)

3. Beat Clint Barton, though since they were fighting in an enclosed location, he was at the disadvantage as he couldn’t fully extend his bow to fire arrows accurately. I’m bringing this up because I know others will compare this fight to say that since Natasha beat Clint, she could beat Ollie.

4. Took on the Chitari who had no real feats to show that they were physical superior to humans besides jumping from their ships to the sides of buildings (maybe a twelve foot leap I’d say)

And really that’s it. Now Ollie:

1. Like Natasha, he beats nameless fodder thugs, only he does it on a weekly basis. He has even beaten people while being at a disadvantage, as in “Vertigo” he was heavily drugged yet managed to take down a stairwell full of guards with little difficulty.

2. Unlike Natasha, who fights mostly fodder characters with the exception of Clint, Ollie routinely fights people who are well trained in martial arts, whether it was his training with Slade on the island, or him fighting and eventually beating China White, Helena Bertinelli and Malcolm Merlyn upon later encounters.

3. He is arguably more acrobatic than her as he regularly uses parkour and free jumping to get from location to location. He also dodges bullets with ease, even from someone who is a master marksman like Deadshot.

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her and spends most of his days training his body to increase his strength. For Stamina, he once chased down Helena Bertinelli on foot while she was riding a motorcycle and almost caught her if not for a truck blocking his path at the last minute.

5. His long distance weapons, aka, his archery skills are more impressive than Natasha’s. He has been shown to be a great archer, hardly ever missing his target, even when drugged, injured or moving. His accuracy doesn’t end with arrows either, as he was shown to be able to kill someone by simply throwing a kitchen knife. He also regularly uses Flechettes as darts to otherwise disarm or incapacitate people he doesn’t want dead with great accuracy.

Ollie wins.

What episode had Deadshot =O I must've missed it while at college, can I can a number to go watch on Hulu or wherever? Also, doesn't ollie have some gun experience from his island flashbacks?

#76 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't really watch Arrow and Widow was pretty cool in the Avengers movie. I ain't voting though. I'll just wait and see. I've only voted on these battle thingies once, most of the fights get won by popularity so I'm betting that Arrow will win.

#77 Posted by Onemoreposter (3864 posts) - - Show Bio

Window was mighty impressive in the Avengers. I gotta give her my vote.

#78 Posted by Dratini1331 (6883 posts) - - Show Bio

@potter1000: Zipcuffs are not the same as handcuffs. They're harder to move around in since your wrists are tied directly together. I think they may technically be easier to get out of though, but I really have no idea? I would think Zipcuffs > Handcuffs except Zipcuffs can be cut easily.

#79 Posted by fil123 (469 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie is faster (chased down a motorcycle) and stronger (the chin up latter is the hardest workout, and how easily he does muscle ups is amazing). he is just hands down more physically gifted then natasha.

movie black widow really hasnt impressed me too much, other than the scene where shes tied up to the chair. Which ollie has done TWICE.

shouldve been ollie vs hawkeye and my money would still be on the emerald archer

#80 Edited by superior_prime_maybe (287 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombot890 said:

I'm sorry but why would green arrow a novice who has only had like 5 years of training be able to beat an assassin of Black Widows calibre? She fought fucking aliens!

she took out a much better archer in Hawkeye

she lasted a pretty long while against the hulk with a lame leg ffs.

She stared down the eyes of a GOD! and didnt blink!

aslo to the guy who said Oli is better trained than Black widow you sir are an idiot. 5 years on an Island doesnt compete with however many years she had with 1. Shield 2. Her former Soviet work 3. whatever Freelance work she has had.

this is the deathstroke against Ultimate captain america all over again.

Hm...very good points. She does have MILES of experience over him. But calm down,lol.

I mean,again Green Arrow did struggle in one fight against a blonde haired chick.

But,again,he DOES have impressive showings that may rival her own.

Thanks. That helps.

Still... the green paint?

#81 Posted by BlueRobin (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow would win because of all the different training, he revived. especially with the different assortment of arrow he has available.

#82 Edited by patrat18 (8438 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

Anyway, I've had my say. Let's see how this turns out.

As I said above, I agree, Ollie would win this, but I really think it's gonna turn into a popularity contest, more people like Avengers than Arrow so they'll vote for her. Hell, the first comment on the other page says "I've never seen Arrow, so I vote BW" how the hell can you vote against someone you've never seen before??

#83 Edited by The Stegman (22705 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: Deadshot is actually a recurring villain because he has a history with Diggle. He appears in the episodes "The Lone Gunman", "Dead to rights" and "Home Invasion"

#84 Posted by morgan_13333 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

black widow would win, she will shoot green arow to get close and then she will get him knock out in close combat with her electric gaunlets.

#85 Posted by Dratini1331 (6883 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Really? I'll have to go watch them. I've been trying to catch every Deathstroke one though, since it's John Barrowman. I can't say no to Captain Jack =P

#86 Posted by WhineHaus (79 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me just start off saying, the introduction to this battle AUTOMATICALLY put Black Widow at a disadvantage. I opened the article and started thinking about who'd win, only to be interrupted by the wall of text discrediting Black Widow's skill against Hawkeye (and Hulk for that matter). I know it said, "[...] don't mean to discredit her feats," but that's exactly what it did. As a reader and viewer, it creates an immediate bias against one of the characters, even with the crappy little disclaimer after.

@k4tzm4n If you wanted a fair, well thought out battle, you might want to be more strategic on how you introduce your two combatants...

...That being said, I still am voting for Green Arrow. I feel like the battle is going to come down to each one's bare-bones skill. I am of the opinion that intense survivalist instincts eventually trump even the best-trained fighters. Arrow narrowly takes down Black Widow due to his will to live and win.

#87 Posted by bloggerboy (532 posts) - - Show Bio

Bullets win arrows not to mention cognitive recalibration.

#88 Posted by fil123 (469 posts) - - Show Bio

...That being said, I still am voting for Green Arrow. I feel like the battle is going to come down to each one's bare-bones skill. I am of the opinion that intense survivalist instincts eventually trump even the best-trained fighters. Arrow narrowly takes down Black Widow due to his will to live and win.

THIS

#89 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by butters911 (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because the Avengers movie was so huge I expected BW to take this in a landslide

#91 Edited by k4tzm4n (36106 posts) - - Show Bio

The disclaimer in the OP isn't intended to place a character at a disadvantage but instead to address hilarious misconceptions which are commonly seen surrounding the characters. Last week, a few were brought up for TMNT and Deadpool, and this week, I felt obligated to shut down the laughably ignorant arguments I've seen for Black Widow far too often in threads. It's not meant to say she loses -- not by any measure -- but instead to remind others to be rational when taking feats into account. Beating Hawkeye doesn't automatically mean she wins here and I explained why. The very same was done with Ollie because after seeing multiple people say he has flawless aim last week, I needed to remind people that yes, he does indeed miss sometimes and that could be a big deal against such an agile character.

Ultimately, you don't even have to give a damn about what I'm saying. That's more than evident anyway when I tell people the poll is open for a week to research, yet numerous people admit they're voting without proper knowledge. I'm merely attempting to even the playing field and shoot down the misconceptions I've seen surrounding characters -- nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I enjoy the addition and thus far it has only received one complaint. Unless the majority agrees that it hinders the article and impacts their ability to make a fair decision, it'll remain.

Staff
#92 Posted by detective38 (165 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of these are bad versions of pretty good characters. I pick sticking with comic versions for these fights instead of other media popularity contests.

#94 Edited by marvel_dc_heroes_villains (124 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm seeing a lot of 'Ollie stomps' posts. Now, if we were talking comic versions, I'd completely agree, partly because Arrow has greater feats and partly because Black Widow is a pretty lame character in comparison. However, Ollie in the TV series should never beat movie Widow. Her feats stand well above his, as I'd like to see him take on a Chitauri army, survive a hit from the Hulk or figure out how to use alien weaponry in seconds (that was obviously a bit PIS, but it still happened). Given the completely different natures of their universes, it's rather unfair to compare them, but this is the battle and Natasha wins.

#95 Posted by Moby (76 posts) - - Show Bio

Those who don't know about TV's Green Arrow really shouldn't vote and also don't know what their missing.

#96 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6408 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668: Hmm. I guess not. Must of missed the battle entirely. Who was in it?

#97 Posted by nightwingnerd (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Greeeeen Arrrowwwwww!

#98 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallen_crippled: I believe TMNT vs Deadpool. It was declared "the first ever tie!" Which katz then later proclaimed meant that "too close to call" won the verdict.

#99 Posted by EnigmaLantern (707 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll just copy and paste what I put on the other page to save me some time and effort.

It's obvious this battle is gonna be heavily biased from the beginning due to people

A. Not watching Arrow, thus being ignorant to Oliver's skills

or

B. Not liking Arrow and picking Widow simply because they like her better.

The truth is, Oliver has her outclassed in almost every category.

Let’s go over Black Widow’s feats shall we? She:

1. Took down some nameless, fodder guards in Iron Man 2

2. Took down more fodder mobsters in Avengers while tied up (Something Ollie also does in the early episodes)

3. Beat Clint Barton, though since they were fighting in an enclosed location, he was at the disadvantage as he couldn’t fully extend his bow to fire arrows accurately. I’m bringing this up because I know others will compare this fight to say that since Natasha beat Clint, she could beat Ollie.

4. Took on the Chitari who had no real feats to show that they were physical superior to humans besides jumping from their ships to the sides of buildings (maybe a twelve foot leap I’d say)

And really that’s it. Now Ollie:

1. Like Natasha, he beats nameless fodder thugs, only he does it on a weekly basis. He has even beaten people while being at a disadvantage, as in “Vertigo” he was heavily drugged yet managed to take down a stairwell full of guards with little difficulty.

2. Unlike Natasha, who fights mostly fodder characters with the exception of Clint, Ollie routinely fights people who are well trained in martial arts, whether it was his training with Slade on the island, or him fighting and eventually beating China White, Helena Bertinelli and Malcolm Merlyn upon later encounters.

3. He is arguably more acrobatic than her as he regularly uses parkour and free jumping to get from location to location. He also dodges bullets with ease, even from someone who is a master marksman like Deadshot.

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her and spends most of his days training his body to increase his strength. For Stamina, he once chased down Helena Bertinelli on foot while she was riding a motorcycle and almost caught her if not for a truck blocking his path at the last minute.

5. His long distance weapons, aka, his archery skills are more impressive than Natasha’s. He has been shown to be a great archer, hardly ever missing his target, even when drugged, injured or moving. His accuracy doesn’t end with arrows either, as he was shown to be able to kill someone by simply throwing a kitchen knife. He also regularly uses Flechettes as darts to otherwise disarm or incapacitate people he doesn’t want dead with great accuracy.

Ollie wins.

Yup, definitely agree with this. If I could, I would offer you a cookie

#100 Posted by EnigmaLantern (707 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: By the way, out of curiosity, did my thread on the Arrow series have any influence in the choice of characters for the Comic Vine Battle of the Week? :P