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Posted by k4tzm4n (36106 posts) 1 year, 8 days ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Aquaman vs. Thing (469 votes)

Aquaman 70%
Thing 26%
Too close to call 4%

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character (this is New 52 Aquaman).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in our version of Manhattan (this way there's no Baxter Building for a potential advantage but both do indeed recognize where they are). It's unpopulated and at night. Assume they start roughly 20 feet apart and visible in Times Square. This means the Hudson River is about 5 avenues over and the East River is a bit farther away.
  • Thing is unarmed and Arthur has his trident.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.
#151 Posted by Black_Claw (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

Close fight, but i think Arthur's got this.

#152 Edited by Shallbecomeabattoo (363 posts) - - Show Bio

@trodorne: why did you link me on that? I am on your side, dude. I said that Aquaman would beat Thing.

Or do you mean because I wasn't sure about Arthurs strength? Then thanks for the heads up. Did he lift that in the new 52? I am a trade waiter, so I am always a bit behind. I justread the second hardcover up until issue 12 or 13.

#153 Edited by Shallbecomeabattoo (363 posts) - - Show Bio

@wavemotioncannon: Don't get me wrong, I am a big Thor fan, but people underestimate Aquaman. Everyone who can punch Superman to the ground has a shot of taking out Thor and Athur has done that. Since Clark takes out Thor 8 out of 10 fights, if not more, Arthur has a shot. I did not say he would crush Thor, or even beat him, I just said he would give him a run for his money, which he would.

I also find it very humorous that Marvel fanboys always act like Hulk would be the character everyone is measured upon, when half of the big 7 roster of the JL could take him out. I am talking Supes, Martian Manhunter, Flash, maybe even Diana. Hulk is a strong dude, I give him that, but he is not all that.

#154 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Voted Aquaman. I am a Thing fan, but I think with the new52 upgrade of Aquaman plus his little salad forky trident he will take this. Thing is durable and a heavy lifter/hard hitter... but stabbing him is not something he is used to or mentally prepared for, so after bash fest of trading blows by the duo -a couple of quick stabby stabs would see him go down.

#155 Edited by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: Oh you mean like Spider-man (who can die from a bullet) defeated herald of Galactus Firelord in an extended fight :

Yes actually he has super strength and the symbiote costume that also you forgot about it

comicfan11: Luke (started as 5 tonner but now fights characters like Namor)

Yes but he has never defeated Namor or others heavy hitters ;

comicfan11: Ice-man being able to actually become living ice (totally not a power upgrade)

actually he is a mutant so he's power is evolving most mutant do that like beast, Rogue, Magneto, Emma Frost ;

comicfan11:Miss Marvel humiliating Count (I used to beat the whole Avengers) Nefaria You are talking about Ms marvel who had cosmic power as binary(class herald of galactus) which seems to often come back and the Ms marvel who also fought for a day against a big armada of Skrull(who had powers of heroes from the marvel universe) invasion on her own

comicfan11: And another point, Aquaman in his very first appearance in 1941 punched a hole to a Nazi sub, for those who think he got super strength in the last 20 years or smthing

those cans are from Aquaman 49 v1 page26 and page24 as you can see he has been punched by normal dudes and he felt it he even punched one with his "super strength" which created a hole to a nazi Sub

Also we are talking about Nu 52 Aquaman, but even the old one after 1992 when PAD took over the title would beat Thing (lifting an entire city and fighting and in some cases beating 100 tonners like Olympian, Slig, Triton, Wonder Woman, Power Ring, Despero, etc). Durability wise he effectively was bulletproof/resistant starting from 1993 up to the point the DCU got rebooted, but his blunt and energy durability (you know punches) was up there even before that (tanked blasts that KOed Orion, tanked Heat Vision, tanked WW punches, Lobo slashing him with his hook, or drops from skyscrapers, etc)

even the old one hein ? be careful on what you are saying pal

Aquaman super strength in the 90ties even to carry a whale is like he is going to get a hernia

Aquaman goes to sleep after a torpedo bombing he was not even at the center of the blast this was in Aquaman 1 v2 page 21-22 (December 1991)

aquaman skin saved by a woman she took all the torpedo and died poor girl her king had no durability and how can he expect to beat the Thing in the 90ties?

no durability like the Thing and to add more the same book

a fish recovery

now we go to Aquaman 1 v4 2003 Arthur is hurt by crabs page 11 and 12

So to say don't just give statement like that back it up because right now in the pre-52 he couldn't do a thing to the Thing Eeeeeeeeeeeh i like the ways i said it . Now for the new 52 i still maintain Ben btu it's true Arthur has improved a lot but besting the Thing with the blue eyes forget.

#156 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (4997 posts) - - Show Bio

@shallbecomeabattoo: Aquaman suckerpunching Supes who weighs all of 250lbs and sending him flying means he has a shot at beating Thor ? Are you serious? Superman wipes the floor with Arthur (especially New52 with nerfed TP) and Thor would pummel him with or without the Trident.

Also are you calling me a Marvel fanboy? I carry 8 DC books monthly ( was 11 but Team 7, Ravagers and Fury of Firestorm got canned) including Aquaman so don't try that with me. I just call bullsh*t when I see it.

#157 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: LOL

Apart from the last scan where Aquaman had been weakened and tortured for a time before he escaped, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOUR "PROOF" is after PAD took over the title, which I stated in my post. But you knew that didn't you?

Also you DODGED THE WHOLE THING ABOUT Aquaman's SUPERIOR SPEED and SENSES, but I was sure you wouldn't address it, since there is no point to make for the Thing.

You talk about continuity about power levels, but even with the symbiote Spider-man shouldn't last 2 seconds against Firelord, yet he beat him.Miss Marvel was not Binary when she fought Nefaria. Etc.

And you also tried to explain (poorly) the above examples, but IGNORED THE OTHER ONES, like Spidey KOing Hulk with a truck, because, guess what, your whole argument about Marvel's continuity when it comes to power levels is completely wrong.

Finally, Aquaman sinks a submarine with a punch in his first appearance, in case anyone had any doubts.

You chose to post 1) specific scans, 2) before PAD's run which I specifically stated, 3) without any context in an effort to lowball Aquaman in which you obviously failed (71% of the voters seem to disagree with you).

PS: LOL again at pre 52 Aquaman not being able to "do a thing to the Thing"

#158 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1951 posts) - - Show Bio

Sad that Thing is losing that badly he deserves more credit. it's the closest battle yet along with Daredevil vs Nightwing. Thing is more Durable and Physically stronger than Aquaman but Arthur is Faster and More versatile. this fight goes pretty much like Namor vs Thing. Thing wins if Arthur stays on land and isn't able to bring the battle closer to water but if Arthur does get Ben near or in water it's all over. Ben has tangled with some of Marvel's heaviest hitter's Wonder Man, She Hulk, Hulk, Red Hulk, Thundra, Thor, Hercules, Namor, Colossus, Sentry etc and been able to hold his own and has beaten some of them and been beaten terribly by some but was still able to keep fighting. Ben will never give up which might lead to combat fatigue for Arthur and need of water if the fight stays on land for Aquaman and if Ben doesn't let him get near it well then Arthur will slowly grow weaker and Ben could easily use the rope a dope method. let Arthur go all out and once he starts to dehydrate and lose energy and needing water Thing subsequently unload on Arthur easily KOeing him and if it goes to water and Arthur recharges what's to say when he get's out Ben could move the fight back to the city and subsequently pummel Arthur but it is still a tie in my mind. just wish the voting wasn't so one sided :/.

#159 Posted by Avilon (97 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is a question if Aquaman controls water how much water is the Thing's body made of? Because the average human is around 75% water, granted it would be different for the Thing. SO blood bending any one?

#160 Posted by BlackWind (5328 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avilon: It wouldn't matter because new 52 Aquaman cannot do that. And even Pre 52 Aquaman never used water that way.

#161 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Son of a-

Who voted!?

You ruined the 69!

#162 Posted by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

comicfan11: show us all the scans where aquaman do all this feat ( but even the old one after 1992 when PAD took over the title would beat Thing (lifting an entire city and fighting and in some cases beating 100 tonners like Olympian, Slig, Triton, Wonder Woman, Power Ring, Despero, etc). Durability wise he effectively was bulletproof/resistant starting from 1993 up to the point the DCU got rebooted, but his blunt and energy durability (you know punches) was up there even before that (tanked blasts that KOed Orion, tanked Heat Vision, tanked WW punches, Lobo slashing him with his hook, or drops from skyscrapers, etc)) don't just give statement for us to believe it. I didn't respond for spiderman (but IGNORED THE OTHER ONES, like Spidey KOing Hulk with a truck) because i never read it and saw it so i can argue about it and for Ms marvel you know she class 90 right? so and can't quietly remember were she fought Nefaria if you can please remind me of it this issue and

comicfan11: Apart from the last scan where Aquaman had been weakened and tortured for a time before he escaped, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOUR "PROOF" is after PAD took over the title, which I stated in my post. But you knew that didn't you?

So Aquaman was getting kick by crabs because he was tortured and tired I don't see Ben, Hulk, Thor, Namor, Shazam, Wonder Woman been tortured and after that crabs get over them never this cannot be possible to say for the durability of Aquaman his skin should be harder to pierce than that.

And the score here 71% means nothing because actually Aquaman title rocks and people tend to vote for that a lot of people here don't even know what the Thing can do It has been a while he got his own title.

#163 Posted by FlashKnight (448 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman, because DC>Marvel

#164 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: Again you ignore most of my points, specifically the huge advantage AQ has over the Thing in terms of speed, mobility and agility and only choose some of them, where you think you have a case. No surprise there.

You commented on Marvel being so good at continuity (unlike DC) without even knowing about some of their major mistakes which are well known among fans. In you own words "i never read it and saw it so i can argue about it". Yet you mentioned how you like Marvel for something it's not even true. No comment.

Then you say "Ms marvel you know she class 90". I'll just restrain myself and simply ask, do you even know who Count Nefaria is? Because if you do, then you should know that even if Ms. Marvel is class 90 (very likely she is or close to that) she should according to Marvel's continuity be no match for Nefaria.

I'm not here to give you feats about Pre 52 Aquaman (this is about the New 52 Aquaman, remember?) but if you want, some of them are posted here on Comicvine, on Aquaman's Respect thread. You can look for yourself, but most of them are well known among fans, unlike your seemingly lack of knowledge about a topic which you actually debate. Thus making most of your points moot.

But I'll give you some hints since you seem to need them

Lifting and tossing a city block

Dropping from a plane, and then beating the class 100 "Greek Superman" Olympian.

Tanking a blast from Starro that KOed Orion in space and then proceeds to

telepathically calm the colossal alien parasite Starro.

Just a few examples that make your comment that Pre 52 Aquaman "could not do a thing to the Thing" even more funny.

Finally AQ was tortured, dehydrated completely and weakened when he bled in the ONLY POST Peter David scan you posted and damage might nick his skin but doesn't hurt more than that. Similar to how Wonder Woman survives Superman's punches but can be shot dead by a pistol.

PS You still haven't addressed anything about the speed/mobility advantage, but again I don't expect you will.

#165 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, is this not the most one sided match so far of the series.

#166 Posted by obscurefan (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Speaking as a New Yorker, if this fight starts in Time Square, then Aquaman is a real fish out of water. The Hudson might be five avenues away, but those are long ass avenues. Unless the Thing punches him directly towards the water, no way is he making it there without just up and running away from the fight. Now I know that Aquaman is a total badass (I even said that and defended him long before Geoff Johns took over the character) but in the boiling summer heat in this city, surrounded by nothing but electrical equipment, and fighting a big bruiser who knows the landscape like the back of his hand, yeah he's not taking this one.

#167 Posted by Lvenger (17814 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, is this not the most one sided match so far of the series.

I thought that this is the closest match so far actually. It took me a while to decide that Aquaman would just about beat the Thing.

#168 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

I repeat : Marvel has never rebooted Thing he is a experienced Professional Superhero and Adventurer and would recognize Aquaman as a Sea King just by the Trident alone. Thus Thing would no doubt call Aquaman a cheap knockoff of Prince Namor and keep Aquaman and the Battle away from the water. Grey Hulk almost drowned a super-powerful Spiky Thing and I am sure Ben would know that avoiding water would be best here. Aquaman has a great agility advantage here but little else unless he can get Thing in the water. Thing will just hit him with a Bus or Something Thing Wins anything less would be a revoltin' Development.

lest we forget the 3 round fight with The Champion

#169 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

#170 Posted by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

i think if aquaman goes toe to toe withe the thing he is outmatched strength and durability wise for sure. He will have his trident knocked away pretty quickly. I factor in size also. The thing is a bruiser. I think this is extremely close but aquaman isn't winning this by brute force.

#171 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@obscurefan: New York also has alot of shopping areas. I see Aquaman being punched through a building, one that has pluming. Either he tears open a faucet, or their brawl makes a fire that sets off a sprinkler system. The OP never said that the combatants can't use their surroundings, and I am pretty sure New York has hydrants, I've seen Crooklyn.

#172 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@turoksonofstone said:

I repeat : Marvel has never rebooted Thing he is a experienced Professional Superhero and Adventurer and would recognize Aquaman as a Sea King just by the Trident alone. Thus Thing would no doubt call Aquaman a cheap knockoff of Prince Namor and keep Aquaman and the Battle away from the water. Grey Hulk almost drowned a super-powerful Spiky Thing and I am sure Ben would know that avoiding water would be best here. Aquaman has a great agility advantage here but little else unless he can get Thing in the water. Thing will just hit him with a Bus or Something Thing Wins anything less would be a revoltin' Development.

lest we forget the 3 round fight with The Champion

1) That's speculation on your part (not that it would make any difference or actually help Ben).

2) Aquaman does not need water to function and beat the Thing, which makes your point moot. He can also easily carry or punch the Thing and take the fight to the water (although he doesn't need water to beat the much slower and weaker Thing)

3) You are shooting your argument on the leg here since a) Grey Hulk is one of the weakest incarnations of the Hulk ever, b) Spiky Thing is more powerful than normal Thing (which is the case here), c) Thing was loosing that fight and proved he can drown. d) AQ can just wreck Thing physically with the Trident, which would hurt more than Grey Hulk.

4) Saying AQ can only win by taking Ben in the water is completely contradictory to facts and completely wrong, making your point wrong from the get go.

5) Again this is simply flat out wrong and shows great lack of knowledge for the character, since a bus would do exactly nothing to Aquaman, making your point wrong from the get go again.

6) Champion got absolutely trashed by She Hulk and other characters, which makes the Champion a very bad example for Ben. Furthermore Ben lost to a sparring match with rules (although he did OK) yet AQ managed to tank an infight punch from WW and her attempt to restrain him with a sneak attack in an actual fight. He also managed to overpower her briefly in the same fight.

@obscurefan said:

Speaking as a New Yorker, if this fight starts in Time Square, then Aquaman is a real fish out of water. The Hudson might be five avenues away, but those are long ass avenues. Unless the Thing punches him directly towards the water, no way is he making it there without just up and running away from the fight. Now I know that Aquaman is a total badass (I even said that and defended him long before Geoff Johns took over the character) but in the boiling summer heat in this city, surrounded by nothing but electrical equipment, and fighting a big bruiser who knows the landscape like the back of his hand, yeah he's not taking this one.

1) This is flat out wrong and shows lack of knowledge for the character (it's established in the very first issue that AQ does not need water), making your point moot.

2) This is flat out wrong again due to AQ's ridiculously higher mobility, speed and leaping ability. Furthermore AQ can easily punch the Thing and send him flying towards water or grab him and carry him (Not that he needs water to beat the slow and weaker Thing), making your point moot again.

3) This is flat out wrong yet again since Aquaman can easily punch through a street or a manhole and get access to water (but of course he doesn't need to against the Thing), which yet again makes your point moot.

#173 Posted by Lvenger (17814 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: Champion only got trashed by She Hulk when he'd lost the Power Gem. And She Hulk spent the entire time training herself in her base human form so that when she hulked out, her transformation would be boosted by her already gained strength from training.

#174 Posted by Saren (25201 posts) - - Show Bio

Champion didn't have the Power Gem against Thing either, but Ben didn't win that fight. He was severely outclassed, and Champion beat the everloving daylights out of him, but Ben refused to stay down. Champion was impressed by his tenacity and declared the fight over.

Moderator
#175 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I think CitizenBane beat me to the answer (Thx btw). Yeah he didn't have the PG (that would be ridiculously unfair), just his base (reeeeeally high) strength. And the point is that She Hulk still beat the tar out of the Champion without external help (training is not outside help)

#176 Edited by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

comicfan11: Then you say "Ms marvel you know she class 90". I'll just restrain myself and simply ask, do you even know who Count Nefaria is? Because if you do, then you should know that even if Ms. Marvel is class 90 (very likely she is or close to that) she should according to Marvel's continuity be no match for Nefaria.

I know who Nefaria is pal but me too i have a question for you do you know team work? you are talking like she beats him on her own i know you want to be right but show me something genuine not what you want to say to be right. let me remind you what happen

1) Nefaria was with his daughter and the hood to find a solution for the last

1)The new Avengers pop in for ..(you know why) Luke cage surprised Nefaria with a punch

3) Nefaria wakes up furious and not taken the new avengers seriously and blast miss marvel

4) too bad nefaria doesn't know what she's capable of : she can absorb energy and used it the way she wants

5)

she used his own power to hurt him but not for long nefaria comes back at super speed and pissed

6) He teaches her why everybody are afraid of Nefaria with a powerful punch and his about to finish her when.........

7)Helloooooo guess who comes for dinner tonight?

WOLVERINE BUB.....

8)Wolverine slash him out and Nefaria bleeds

8) And before he recovers from wolverine's attack Miss Marvel use all her power blast to finish him off

So even you can see the blast is going inside out of Nefaria through his wounds

9) So his done

So to say it was a team work if wolverine didn't come in she should have never beat Nefaria and as you can see when you want to prove your point you show all the action and not only when your characters give a punch show the next panel what happen after Aquaman hit the Olympian

let me show you one of Ben Grimm fights with one of toughest guy Thor ever fought the Wrecker at full power

)

)

)

I think the scan speaks for me is true Aquaman is faster than Ben but he's not the first one he fought with Namor is an example of my statement and please show me better scan than the ones you showed me is incomplete scans show the fight up to the End and for Spiderman beating hulk with a truck I start to doubt it because the way you interpret fights are not so subjective so until you show me or you direct me to the comics i don't take it as an accountable fact the miss marvel case show it Thanks pale.

#177 Edited by irishyardball (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing is stronger, has increased stamina to be able to fight Aquaman all day. And he wouldnt be stupid enough to follow Aquaman to water. Thing has fought Namor, he knows the deal. Aquaman runs 5 blocks to the Hudson and is disqualified while the Thing just sits there and waits for him to come back to land.

#178 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: Yet again you focus on one instance of my posts. And Nefaria written properly should absolutely demolish that team. That's the point. That Marvel's continuity is much more flawed than you wan't to present it. The fight you posted actually hurts your case.

As for Wrecker, he is OK powerwise but a character like Olympian would trash him. And AQ beat Olympian in the scans I posted. There's no other pic to the fight. It ends with Olympian spitting blood and falling. Next time you see AQ he is helping Martian Manhunter telepathically and Olympian awaits to be exiled to another universe.

Finally you claimed how much you like Marvel for their good continuity and yet you seem to have so little knowledge about what you are talking about. It's you who have to search for the instances I mentioned (like Spiderman KOing Hulk) since YOU claimed that you know about Marvel's continuity. I shouldn't even be telling you that.

#179 Posted by 80sGangInfestedArcades (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@wavemotioncannon: Your wrong Aquaman defeated Sub-mariner one on one Namor is nowhere more powerful then Aquaman neither is The Thing

#180 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (4997 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sganginfestedarcades: If it happened in a crossover , IT'S NOT CANON AND DOESN'T COUNT, please read the rules before you post. Also Thing and Namor are both stronger than Aquaman.

#181 Edited by 80sGangInfestedArcades (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: 1980s Aquaman is superpowerful and no joke 1990s Aquaman got powered down majorly and the new design long hair,beard,one hand almost ruined him they made him real weak now the new 52 has made him correct again to how powerful he was in the 1940s-1980s Aquaman is perfect.

#182 Posted by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

80sGangInfestedArcades : @supreme_maj: 1980s Aquaman is superpowerful and no joke 1990s Aquaman got powered down majorly and the new design long hair,beard,one hand almost ruined him they made him real weak now the new 52 has made him correct again to how powerful he was in the 1940s-1980s Aquaman is perfect.

Ahahaah please i beg go up were I previously posted the scan of Aquaman49 v1 which was in jan-feb 1970

This is the time period you were referring to say he was even punched by a normal dude

He became more and more stronger later like comicfan11 mention but even He can't beat the Thing.

comicfan11: when you said : Yet again you focus on one instance of my posts. And Nefaria written properly should absolutely demolish that team. That's the point. That Marvel's continuity is much more flawed than you wan't to present it. The fight you posted actually hurts your case

Sincerely i don't know how it hurt my case because you said: Miss Marvel humiliating Count (I used to beat the whole Avengers) Nefaria

I proved you that was not the case it was a Whole Team of Avengers who fought him and beat him not Miss Marvel alone and you said again : Yet again you focus on one instance of my posts. And Nefaria written properly should absolutely demolish that team. That's the point. That Marvel's continuity is much more flawed than you wan't to present it

I know you are a very good writer who can make sure Adamantium claws which is stated to be indestructible cannot pierce Nefaria's skin who is nigh invulnerable(forgetting invulnerability is relative because two being with the same level of strength can hurt each other so to say : indestructible sharp claw meet nigh invulnerability what will happen?=blood ) and open wounds charge with a lot of amount of energy is sweet .

lets go to your scan now

The blast from Starro the image show Orion in the center of the blast and Aquaman near Starro aside not actually in point blank He got a hit from the side not the whole blast is Orion who got it if you say Aquaman got the all blast so meaning he's more durable than Orion who fought Darkseid his father and Superman to a stand still? come on so you are even giving me more credit about continuity pal somebody who the crabs try to eat his flesh is more durable than Orion?

You said : As for Wrecker, he is OK powerwise but a character like Olympian would trash him. And AQ beat Olympian in the scans I posted. There's no other pic to the fight. It ends with Olympian spitting blood and falling. Next time you see AQ he is helping Martian Manhunter telepathically and Olympian awaits to be exiled to another universe.The Olympian you are talking about is not Achilles the son of Zeus he's the only one i know with the name The Olympian and the guy in your scan is not Achilles so his level of strength are unknown

You said again: Finally you claimed how much you like Marvel for their good continuity and yet you seem to have so little knowledge about what you are talking about. It's you who have to search for the instances I mentioned (like Spiderman KOing Hulk) since YOU claimed that you know about Marvel's continuity. I shouldn't even be telling you that.

The answer i have to your statement is: you don't have the prove of what you are saying if it was so you should show it for me to admit it until you don't have it and it was just a speculation that is why you are given me this kind of response. And when you you give a statement try to back it up with scans please the Spiderman/ hulk koed was your statement not mine so prove it but i understand you can't so it's ok pal let it be.

#183 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing is a moron.

Aquaman outsmarts him.

#184 Edited by ShadowX (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are people debating about old school aquaman? The rules are clearly new 52 aquaman. Unless I am wrong.

#185 Posted by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

ShadowX: Why are people debating about old school aquaman? The rules are clearly new 52 aquaman. Unless I am wrong.

You are right is just because people said even the pre-52 can beat Ben so that is why we went back in time to refresh our memories.

#186 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: Stop man.

Just stop.

Go read some comics and then we talk. Just try to understand how ridiculous your posts are.

You talk about Wolverine vs Nefaria when every people that reads comics and has half a brain, knows Nefaria should annihilate that team. I don't mind Wolverine making Nefaria bleed. I mind Nefaria loosing to Cage, Wolvie and Ms Marvel. he should stomp them plain and simple but didn't due to Marvel's lapse in continuity, the very concept you seem to be so in love with.

The scans with Orion are pretty clear to see (Aquaman is in the middle of the blast), and actually to this point I just ignore any "opinion" you have because it's pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about (since I constantly have to correct you on misconceptions about your favorite company). Also Aquaman as I said a) was extremely weakened in the instance you refer (BUT YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE FACTS which is not surprising since you have no idea what you are pretending to debate about)

Finally since you have proven you don't know enough of what you are talking about, here's a scan of Hulk KOed by a truck in a fight with Spidey. Because again Marvel never messes up power levels as you suggest.

PS As for Olympian just because YOU don't know the character means absolutely nothing. People who actually, you know, know what they are talking about and are NOT PRETENDING THEY DO like seemingly you, understand how powerful the character is. Again it just shows the sheer hypocrisy and incompetence of your posts, your arguments and your logic.

I suggest you actually read some comics and maybe then we can debate

#187 Posted by ShadowX (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj:

Oh okay..

@sideburnguru: no way is The Thing a Moron. He was a pilot in the U.S military and a NASA astronaut, which you actually need to be pretty smart to acomplish beng an astronaut. Now I'm not saying he is as Smart as Aquaman, but you shouldnt discredit his intelligence. The Thing is also pretty street smart, which should be no way dismissed.

#188 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadowx: Yeah, but they hardly capitalize on that. They make him in most comic events, seeming like a bloody moron. And a fight against Aquaman in this certain scenario, I don't see how street smart should benefit him. A good sense of using any tool to your fight, I'm sure.

I'm not saying Thing SHOULD be stupid, I'm saying most writers like to make him seem like a mindless brute.

#189 Posted by Mezmero (895 posts) - - Show Bio

I really love Ben Grimm. He's such a great character. Who doesn't love The ever lovable Thing? But Arthur is just far more versatile a fighter. The added bonus of having a mystical weapon alone is enough to tip the scales in favor of Aquaman. The Thing is good at at tanking for a team due to his unnatural durability. I don't see how he can handle a precision attack from Arthur's strength, speed, and magic weapon. Don't get me started about any water that could be brought into this fight. It's pretty much no contest for Aquaman.

#190 Edited by Comicguy3000 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme maj Your hella retarded dude u posted one comic from the 1970s showing a different Aquaman from todays current Aquaman and act like that comic represents Aquaman when there are 1000s of comics from those era's that show his incredible power you just dislike Aquaman that is fine but its not gonna change the fact that he is a lot more powerful then the thing if u were a true comic fan u would know they have powered up and down just about every superhero/villian in the DC universe but original Aquaman and todays current Aquaman are showing his real power and i like it and also Aquaman beat Namor in Marvel vs DC that battle does count sub-mariner got beaten point blank no excuses.Aquaman FTW!

#191 Edited by Shadowseeker2 (106 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm intresting however aqua man would win.I mean he could drown the thing and since the thing is so heavy he would have to use all his energy to get above sea level where aqua man could finish him off!

#192 Posted by k4tzm4n (36106 posts) - - Show Bio

Just fyi, today is the last full day for voting.

Matters look rather bleak for Thing...

Staff
#193 Posted by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

Comicguy3000: said @Supreme maj Your hella retarded dude u posted one comic from the 1970s showing a different Aquaman from todays current Aquaman and act like that comic represents Aquaman when there are 1000s of comics from those era's that show his incredible power you just dislike Aquaman that is fine but its not gonna change the fact that he is a lot more powerful then the thing if u were a true comic fan u would know they have powered up and down just about every superhero/villian in the DC universe but original Aquaman and todays current Aquaman are showing his real power and i like it and also Aquaman beat Namor in Marvel vs DC that battle does count sub-mariner got beaten point blank no excuses.Aquaman FTW!

Sincerely dudes here surprise me when you are coming to give a statement try to go through all the posts which have been given so far I didn't post those scans to corroborate the strength for the current Aquaman but it was an answer to comicfan11 who said : And another point, Aquaman in his very first appearance in 1941 punched a hole to a Nazi sub, for those who think he got super strength in the last 20 years or smthing and he also said

Also we are talking about Nu 52 Aquaman, but even the old one after 1992 when PAD took over the title would beat Thing (lifting an entire city and fighting and in some cases beating 100 tonners like Olympian, Slig, Triton, Wonder Woman, Power Ring, Despero, etc). Durability wise he effectively was bulletproof/resistant starting from 1993 up to the point the DCU got rebooted, but his blunt and energy durability (you know punches) was up there even before that (tanked blasts that KOed Orion, tanked Heat Vision, tanked WW punches, Lobo slashing him with his hook, or drops from skyscrapers, etc)

and 80sGangInfestedArcades who said : @supreme_maj: 1980s Aquaman is superpowerful and no joke 1990s Aquaman got powered down majorly and the new design long hair,beard,one hand almost ruined him they made him real weak now the new 52 has made him correct again to how powerful he was in the 1940s-1980s Aquaman is perfect.

so this is why me "a retarded dude" posted it sorry pal, I am not saying this is the strength of the new Aquaman and sincerely is not because i am defending the ever loving Thing that mean i don't like Aquaman (I have v1 ,v2,v3 and 4 of his old run that is why i can post scan) and all Dc characters (See my Avatar name) but when we are arguing on something you need to prove your points and is not because you like one character that means you hate the other I like the two characters but i like Ben more and the two are now level 100 class but Ben brawling technique make me think he can own Arthur.

#194 Posted by TheBournePoster (575 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing wins. He is strong enough and durable enough to beat Aquaman unconscious on land, and if they reach the water, Thing has beaten Namor in the past.

#195 Posted by GraniteSoldier (6647 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I'm voting too close to call. I admit that I don't know much about Thing or Aquaman, so I did some background reading and been reading the arguments here. It seems if the fight can stay on land Thing should edge out a slight majority, but if it reaches water Aquaman will take a majority of the fights. That's just how these comments of read to me, so that means there's too many outside variables for me. I vote too close.

#196 Posted by youngwonderman (49 posts) - - Show Bio

The Thing is pretty much indestructible, and I believe he could take anything Aquaman throws at him.

#197 Posted by marvelftw (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Kinda random thought, but Marvel.com says the Thing is only 6 feet tall...does anyone else think that's not giving him enough credit (or inches)? lol

#198 Posted by Supreme_Maj (255 posts) - - Show Bio

comicfan11: said Stop man.

Just stop. Go read some comics and then we talk. Just try to understand how ridiculous your posts are.

You talk about Wolverine vs Nefaria when every people that reads comics and has half a brain, knows Nefaria should annihilate that team. I don't mind Wolverine making Nefaria bleed. I mind Nefaria loosing to Cage, Wolvie and Ms Marvel. he should stomp them plain and simple but didn't due to Marvel's lapse in continuity, the very concept you seem to be so in love with.

Mister full brain specialize in comics who argue about an Aquaman who have been upgraded time after time who used to be punched by normal dude but who now goes toe to toe with 100 class characters but who is also surprise when a class 5 tonner upgraded time after time and fight also 100 class being (and never beat them actually) , and a characters like miss marvel who also has been upgraded recently in her own comics serie (from her file : After losing her Binary powers and reverting back to Ms. Marvel, Carol's strength dropped much closer to its original level, though it was still greater than before. She could now lift 75 tons under normal conditions, making her approximately fifty percent stronger than she was prior to losing her powers to Rogue. Under extreme circumstances Carol has shown the ability to tap into her cosmic Binary powers once again, allowing her to reach class-100 strength levels for brief periods. She has also shown an ability to achieve class-100 strength if she has absorbed a great deal of external energy.

Recent tests by Avengers scientist Hank Pym have shown that Ms. Marvel's base strength level is still increasing. Even when not augmented by any additional energy, Carol can now lift 92 tons and strike with a similar level of force, and Pym has theorized that this is likely not her limit. ) after the House of M event and Wolverine cannot beat Nefaria with prep time (Batman can beat everybody with that is not ridiculous but others than him is no sens ) because this fight was plan each attacks of the Avengers were sucker punch attacks actually You ask me to go and read comics but it seems "the small amount" i read is enough to understand this fight and we are at a forum to give point of views not insult this also show how mature you can be. And beside if you are arguing that was a bad writing because of the Level of Nefaria so what do you think of Majestic in Team7 at one point Spartan comes to kill him at his home the next issue we see him with rhe others at Gamora no explanation so ever of how the situation went from Spartan attacks and the death of his family and his already experience with his powers? Or Deathtroke , Terra, Ravager beating majestic/Jericho (with his level he should have made short work of them since the preview issue he was even face to face with them catching a bulle,t the next issue too he was flying towards a minor threat)

comicfan11 said

The scans with Orion are pretty clear to see (Aquaman is in the middle of the blast), and actually to this point I just ignore any "opinion" you have because it's pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about (since I constantly have to correct you on misconceptions about your favorite company). Also Aquaman as I said a) was extremely weakened in the instance you refer (BUT YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE FACTS which is not surprising since you have no idea what you are pretending to debate about)

Ok I didn't interpret the scan correctly he took the blast if you say so but the fact Aquaman has been tortured and was extremely weakened my point is if Ben Grimm, Superman, Wonder woman Shazam or Thor goes through the same torture Aquaman went trough are they going to be merciless as the way he was? I don't ignore the fact as you said i'm using it to prove my point for his durability pre-52 until you were saying he could beat the Thing even at this incarnation

comicfan11 said

Finally since you have proven you don't know enough of what you are talking about, here's a scan of Hulk KOed by a truck in a fight with Spidey. Because again Marvel never messes up power levels as you suggest.

showing one scan of a fight does not make a point when i post my scan i am not just given one scan to prove my point I gave you the beginning and the end of the fight so showing me just hulk under a truck is not enough to explain the whole fight don't you know how to argument? And since you are an expert in comics you must also know an image of a fight is not the whole scenery of the comic this is why when you posts scans don't post only one like the sucker punch Arthur gave to superman that someone posted before is not a whole fight

You said

PS As for Olympian just because YOU don't know the character means absolutely nothing. People who actually, you know, know what they are talking about and are NOT PRETENDING THEY DO like seemingly you, understand how powerful the character is. Again it just shows the sheer hypocrisy and incompetence of your posts, your arguments and your logic.

I suggest you actually read some comics and maybe then we can debate

Sorry for the character and not knowing a character is not a crime pal i told you the one I know with the name is Achilles the son of Zeus my bad (do you know Lord Umbra? Jaagur? or Darkoth until you read a lot of comics pal) and i apologize for that.

"It shows the sheer hypocrisy and incompetence of your posts, your arguments and your logic" those are very harsh words pal and very smart did you read René Descartes the philosopher 's Discourse on the Method ? I am not sure if so you will understand most of the time when you want to counter an argument you go through the statement of the one you are arguing with and all my respond are based on what you said : (1940 aquaman; Pre-52 Aquaman ; the Thing strength and brawl techniques [fight with the wrecker]) you wanted to make your point you brought his pre-52 prowess and when somebody try to counter it you start to respond with harsh word ok i didn't bring his 52 speed and reflexes and this i know Aquaman has the advantages on this but Namor is as faster as Aquaman maybe even faster than him so is not a point for me he used to fight similar characters and is not like i don't read Aquaman I do and i like his current run no flaws but for me is not enough for him to own the Thing and please when you are not ready and enough patient to read the argumentations of others don't get involved because starting to use insult in a forum is a description of lack of maturity So for now on I stop this debate because is pointless i recognize you have some point in this debate but cool down please is not a coliseum but a forum we change ideas because we don't interpret thing the same ways this is why each one of us are unique pal is now the way you can present your point of view which will make people accept it or not base of what they believe is genuine for them I could have ignore you this time but i changed my mind so next time don't just get involve when you can't stand contradictions,

thank you.

#199 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_maj: Dude you don't get it do you? It doesn't matter even if Ms.Marvel is class 100. She and the other 2 low level Marvel characters (Cage and Wolvie) should be stomped by Nefaria.. Plain and simple. They didn't. That's one (among many other instances) that shows bad power level continuity. Simple as that. Can you comprehend that? (also when Miss Marvel goes Binary her appearance changes, which was not the case here, so any mention of Binary in this debate is pointless)

Also, of course Aquaman got upgraded during his 70 year history. What hero hasn't. But what most people forget or simply don't know is that he had super powers (strength, speed, durability) FROM THE VERY FIRST ISSUE. Sure he couldn't throw down with WW like after PAD took over in early 90's (although he could sink subs via punching, as I already posted), but I EXPLICITLY STATED I'm talking about post PAD, in which case you have no point (since after PAD, AQ has never looked back as a character power wise).

As for AQ punching Superman, of course it was not a fight. It's just shows a) how fast AQ is and b) how strong AQ is (one of many examples). That's all.

Furthermore unlike you I never defended DC's continuity concerning power levels (go ahead search the whole thread). They are like Marvel (so no need to mention specific examples of bad DC continuity, I already acknowledge them, unlike you when it comes to Marvel). Writers mess up all the time. That's the point. But to say you like Marvel because of the continuity, that's ridiculous. Also here's the fight between Tiger Shark (class 80-90) Namor villain vs normal human Punisher, in water. So much for Marvel not messing up again.

Hear that? That's your entire ridiculous argument cracking, like Tiger Shark is choking against a normal human in water. To put it simply in the Marvel universe where you claimed continuity powerwise is so good, we have a normal human, fighting, surviving, outmuscling and KOing a class 80-90 character (who gets stronger underwater I believe) in water. Keep in mind this feat is so ridiculous that in a different forum, in the Punisher thread, this feat is mentioned BUT NOT POSTED DUE TO it being inconsistent with power levels. TS should oneshot Punisher. But again Marvel never messed up power levels as you claimed.

Also of course the other 3 characters would be messed up in the scan you posted, if a magic militaristic high tech race (that knows the character's weaknesses) betrayed, captured, held hostage, tortured and shot them before leaving them weakened and helpless, under guard.

Apart from that I already posted AQ beating Olympian, so there's nothing more to say (AQ beat up via punch to the face a legit powerhouse, a superman clone if you will - there's nothing you can say or do to lowball this feat, as it's common knowledge among fans). You claimed that AQ was weak, I explicitly proven you wrong. Why come back for more since you failed to prove a single point so far?

Also in you say "Namor is as faster as Aquaman maybe even faster than him", which is 100% wrong and has been through the entire history of both characters. Namor has no feats that can even compare to Aquaman's high end speed feats, just letting you know, since again you seem to need correcting, when you casually post false statements.

In your own words "So for now on I stop this debate because is pointless i recognize you have some point in this debate". Thanks.

PS. When I post stuff it's to showcase the character I'm supporting. I don't post to lowball. What made me focus on your posts however was the fact that you started posting out of context, old (before PAD), irrelevant scans and base your "arguments" there in an effort to lowball AQ. That's all. And be sure next time you try to do the same thing again (against a character I follow), I'll do the same and call you out for all logical posters to see.

Peace.

#200 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@youngwonderman: Thing is in now way "indestructible" and he has a) bled, b) KOed, c) had pieces of his face broken from being punched. If anything Thing is pretty much "destructible" and has fallen to characters far weaker than AQ.