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For some reason @god_spawn hasn't made this argument here. And it would be a shame if this missed out on being Viner argument of the week if Thing wins. Thus I shall post it here
I'll just make a case for the Thing for shiggles.
The Thing has been a class 100 for awhile now and has lifted thousands of tons, and for decades has tangoed with opponents that are stronger like the Hulk multiple times, Namor a few times in the past and in their latest encounter, he recentlyvirtually stalemated a freshly hydrated Namor. And the Thing has even stood up to Juggernaut Colossus for an extended battle and got some solid shots on him. Ben is by no means a top tier fighter, but he is a trained boxer, has his army training, was a collegiate wrestler, and knows some Judo and Jujutsu. This has allowed Ben to create his own style of brawling and it has effectively helped him in many a fights as to me, the Thing has always seemed like the underdog in comparison to Marvel top tiers but it has never stopped him. The Thing has also grown highly durable. As I said, a freshly hydrated Namor was stalemating him, he's taken multiple hits from Juggalossus and Hulk level characters. The Thing even managed to redirect a celestial afterwave. Arthur on the other hand has had his armor wrecked before, he's been cut by AK-47 fire, and I don't find him having much of any strength edge or durability edge over the Thing. And I haven't seen him do any massive combat speed feat to where he will consistently dance around Ben and shred him to pieces.
What Arthur does have is the trident and that is what will give him his wins. He is faster and can soak some hits and we've seen the likes of Wolverine drop the Thing with one well placed stab before (got him in the shoulder with his claws, but Logan knows pressure points so I chalked it up to a nerve strike). Arthur will get some wins because he can get around Ben and the trident will do some damage. But I find the Thing's durability and most importantly, his determination and will, should enable to tank some of what Arthur will dish out and even get his hand on the trident, and once that happens, the Thing has the window to rid him of the trident, keep Arthur in position and reel him in for a face pounding or choke hold. The Thing should win after a long and brutal fight, but it is his determination that will allow him to do what he does best and that is clobber.
One thing I'd like to this is that it's been made clear in Ben's fights with characters like the Hulk and Silver Surfer that Ben is quite fast and agile himself. He's been shown as much faster than Hulk whose reaction feats include catching Captain America's shield quite handily as well as grabbing missiles from midair. Thus there isn't any leeway for Arthur to bullrush him like he did Wonder Woman.
I love Aquaman, he is my favorite DC character, but I can't say I am as familiar with him as I am with Thing, in terms of power. I know Aquaman is about as strong as Superman these days, but would it be unfair to say that so is Namor, just about? I mean Namor took on Hulk and Thor at different points. Thing did battle Namor underwater and sort of won, during AvX (if I can recall correctly). Now I understand that may have been a case of plot induced stupidity, but it did happen and it did show case Thing's strength.
So, I dunno. I might go with Thing, even though I love Aquaman, but I'll think this over for a while longer before voting.
(again I apologize for reposting this)
Based on what we know of Aquaman's strength he can lift a cruise liner out of the water. which on average is 141,000 gross tonnage. in metric tons that would be 157,920. So we know he can do up to almost 200,000 tons (roughly) of repeated blows against the thing.
for those who says he has to be in the water for this to happen. well last time I checked the city of new york still has fire hydrons and water mains. MAKE IT RAIN!
Ben Grimm, from what I know has lifted a multiple level building weighing in at roughly 30,000 tons. now I don't know the circumstances of that but it is safe to assume that he could use 50,000 tons (roughly)of focused repeated blows.
to me it seems strength wise Aquaman out classes the thing.
@trodorne: I'm still making my mind up. I thought I'd post godspawn's argument here because this is the only way it can get recognised on the official voting thread. Plus lifting strength is very different from striking power. Just because someone lifts 141,000 tonnes doesn't mean that's how much their punches are.
It's almost too close to call because it actually does depend on the environment and who gets in a better shot. Even though Aquaman is better trained if The Thing can keep him away from the water and constantly smother him with attacks its kind of a toss up. But the fact that Aquaman has his trident, kind of gives him the edge. Aquaman edges out.
To me, Aquaman seems like a faster and more deadly opponent. Thing will be able to tank a lot because he is good at fighting people stronger than him. I think Thing will get some good hits on Aquaman but it won't be enough. I think Aquaman is underrated in his strength and durability (Bullets making him bleed is WIS) and has what it takes to be a good fight for Superman, and Thing is no Superman in terms of durability and strength. Therefore I must vote for Aquaman.
God damn it, the next person to say "herp a derp Things wins cos he beat Namor in AVX".............
But you're cool with people implying Aquaman wins because he punched a seemingly off-guard Superman once? ;)
No but it's not a crazy thing for Aquaman to be able to do that (it doesn't make him win though) but that Thing vs Namor fight was total PIS
Aquaman wins this battle.
His seems stronger than the Thing having lifted a cruise ship (around 160000 tons), tossed a sub from the bottom of the ocean to several feet above the air, sent Superman flying with a punch and managed to overpower Wonder Woman briefly.
He is also faster (again shown against Wonder Woman, Ocean Master and some Talons), can leap like the Hulk, durable enough to tank bullets, explosions, energy blasts, airplane free falls and hits from Wonder Woman and Darkseid.
He also has super senses that will come handy at a night fight and is a very skilled warrior (with more experience in the Nu DCU than most heroes, having been the leader of the Others before the Justice League was even created) and good strategist having come up with the Atlantean War plans, the way to distract Darkseid and the plan to capture the Cheetah.
And finally he is extremely skilled with the Trident the second most powerful of the Atlantean artifacts, which is indestructible and able to hurt Darkseid, break the shields from Graves and cause a volcanic reaction among other things.
Aquaman is above Thing in all categories by a fair margin. The only stat that might be somewhat close is durability.
@weaponx: being thrown into a boat while he was in the water also made him bleed (justice league 16)
He also got shrapnel pierced through his leg when that plane blew up and crashed in the desert. Idk how long he was out of water for that one, but idt it was very long.
Allow me to quote Black Manta from Aquaman #14, "You want to know what makes Aquaman so tough? His skin is nearly bulletproof. His muscle density ten times that of yours or mine. And as you said, he can breathe underwater, unlike us."
Beginning with the strength department, many users may give this vote to Thing, however, new 52 Aquaman has shown to have incredible lifting feats lately such as pulling ships during a thunderstorm, lifting a cruise ship, causing an underwater earthquake, as well as ripping through a submarine. Therefore, at the very least, we should consider brute strength as 'too close to call'.
Removing that from the equation, then we really take away Thing's main power-factor, whereas Arthur has a lot more to work with. The OP states that Arthur is armed with his trident, which given the location in Manhattan, should help Arthur use the rivers to his advantage. Additionally, we've seen Arthur use it to stab Darkseid (a stronger opponent than Aquaman) in the eyes - and there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do something similar in nature to Ben Grimm.
Also, if Arthur can somehow lead Ben to the river (which is very plausible), then this thing is liable to sink like a rock, and of course, Aquaman can call on the services of sea creatures to assist.
Aquaman wins this one.
On the one hand, Thing does have comparable feats to Aquaman in many regards. But it depends on whether Aquaman can get close enough to water in New York. If he does then it'll be over for the Thing. But I'm still not sure how it'll play out at the start.
@crouchingtiger: Here you go.
He barely bled from a point blank punch from WW (who is far above the thing in strength)
Aquaman is durable but his skin can be cut. He is far more durable to blunt damage, similar to Wonder Woman.
He also survived an entire temple falling on his spine with no trouble. But bullets draw some blood when they connect.
@comicfan11: I have the comic that's why I told you that you were correct, I double checked. But the thing has taken beatings from the likes of hulk and others(who outclass WW in strength) without bleeding at all. He CAN take machine gun fire without bleeding.
He doesn't just have a slight edge in durability, its pretty wide gap.
I don't think that aquaman "can't" beat the thing, I feel like he CAN. But I give the majority to thing due to way better durability and having similar strength levels.
And people are throwing out crazy scenarios to put it in aquamans favor. Bringing up powers that he doesn't have anymore.
I've read the first two volumes of justice league, and like ten of aquaman, and I haven't seen anything so far that tells me the trident can pierce things skin. Adamantium has. But nobody has shown me anything, and I haven't read anything yet telling me that the trident is as hard or as sharp as wolverines claws
@frogdog: that looks a lot like world war hulk, which would be the strongest version of the hulk, ever. Not to mention, everyone in marvel comics got their a$$ handed to em in World war hulk.
Also, you picked one out of a dozen times that they faced off.
So are you trying to say aquaman could go toe to toe with WWH?
World breaker hulk is the strongest, some of the people that fought WWH took more than one punch. Hulk has more wins over the thing anyway.
Yeah but aqua man wouldn't win in a fight with hulk.
@crouchingtiger: The Trident pierced Darkseid's armor. I do believe Darkseid is far above the Thing in durability since he was ignoring everything Green Lantern was throwing at him, a speed blitz from Superman and everything the JL threw at him. The only member to draw blood from his body/armor was Aquaman with the Trident.
As far as durability goes I believe Aquaman has not yet been KOed by physical force in the Nu DCU. Just throwing that out.
Aquaman has the Trident which makes it much easier to hurt the Thing.
Also what about Aquaman's speed and mobility which are far above the Thing's level?
@joewell: Darkseids eyes arent indestructible. I think you're underrating the claws. The thing can eat RPGs without taking damage. And he goes toe to toe with the hulk which is just as impressive as coin toe to toe with WW
Major difference being that Aquaman was able to statement wonder woman, thing got a$$ handed by hulk.
That was World War Hulk, who was immensely more powerful.
I still vote for Aquaman though.
@comicfan11: are you referring to when they first came into contact with darkseid? Because he definitely CRACKED a piece of his armor, which is all that can be verified, because his leg is in the way of the head of the trident. but he and WW stabbed him in the eye, and that was the only blood drawn.
But if this thread is still hot tonight I'll post again. I got night shift so I'm going to sleep. Peace
Aquaman would defeat Thing he is extremely more powerful then Thing I have a Superman comix where all the justice league was defeated unconcious and Aquaman was the last one standing literally destroying everyone with just his powerful fist's demolishing all enemies and everything and he ended up rescuing the entire justice league and Superman,Aquaman can also take a huge amount of pain his body is built to withstand ocean pressure from every level Things body would eventually crumble even on land Aquaman's Power and mighty strengh are exactly the same thing would eventually be beaten Aquaman wouldnt even need his trident just his extreme power he is maybe a lil bit less powerful then superman but hes right side by side with Captain marvel,Spectre etc Aquaman is one of DC's powerhouses the only show that got his strengh and power right hurricanes,typhoons,can swim 100+mph glidin all of the cool oceans he is almost indestructible but the cartoon Batman the Brave and the bold got Aquamans power right he would be the victor.
Removing the possibility of Aquaman getting old blue eyes into the water, I actually think this fight would be too close to call... without the trident. The trident is what gives Aquaman the win in my mind. Sure, Thing may on average have better strength and durability showings overall and Aquaman speed and agility showings, but they are very close in both regards so those are minor advantages at best. The trident, however, has so far been shown to be indestructible and capable of piercing and slashing anything. With it Aquaman could pull a Wolverine and seriously mess up Ben's face or possibly even kill him if he hits the heart or brain. The trident also means Aquaman has better reach than the Thing, while Ben's size would actually make him vulnerable to getting stabbed.
Ben has to play a defensive game at the beginning to get the trident out of Aquaman's hands, otherwise Arthur can run up to old Benny boy and rapid stab him. Bull rushing Arthur or going at him like a boxer seriously puts the fight into Arthur's hands, so Ben would have to thunder clap, tremor tap or toss some random crap in the hopes of knocking Aquaman down. If Ben can remove the trident from Aquaman he takes away Arthur's biggest advantage, although doing so will be very tough and require all his fighting skill.
As such, I believe this fight, based on these incarnations, and this scenario, Aquaman will win a decent majority.
So new 52 aquaman got a power up from previous aquaman.that makes a difference,but not enough of one for me.I think aquaman may have the thing in strength but the thing out classes him in a brawl.the thing is tough through and through.down to his soul.and I don't mean tough just like he can withstand a lot of pressure tough.I mean tough like that kid who has been fighting and doing hard work all of his like tough.
@bwanasimba: Aquaman doesn't get his power from his trident that is a lie in the 80s comics u barely ever saw him using one just recently they started promoting the use of a atlantean side weapon like the indestructible trident for new generation people like you don't know he never really needed it he it he is extremely powerful Aquaman is also one of the original creators of the justice league Aquaman,Flash Green Lantern,Wonder-Woman are the original's then Superman,Firestorm and the rest came later
@lvenger: I actually think this could go either way, tbh. I originally planned on writing a case for both characters but just said f*ck it and left it at the Thing's since I had other stuff to do. Like I said, for shiggles, though.
It's okay even you are allowed to be wrong.