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Posted by k4tzm4n (39484 posts) - - Show Bio

I've had a blast creating weekly battles for the Comic Vine community, but this week has to be my favorite one yet. I adore all of these characters and think they're all incredibly talented street level combatants. While the Marvel team has a zero percent chance of using any teamwork, they do have the immediate advantage of being more versatile. Both are effective at close and long range.

Meanwhile, Deadshot is disputably the MVP at a distance and Catman is disputably the MVP in close proximity, but both don't bring much to the table at all when put outside of their comfort zone. In close range, Floyd won't last too long against either opponent (despite that awesome showing in the latest issue of SUICIDE SQUAD). At long range, Catman is useless and needs to close the gap to survive.

It's a slight disadvantage right off the bat for team DC, but if it does work out, they definitely have what it takes to stand victorious after a bloody encounter. It was certainly a tricky match to balance, but ultimately, I think the end result is a very entertaining battle. But, what did you all think? After five days of debate and voting, the CV community clearly favors one side: Punisher and Bullseye.

Not one of my finer MS Paint images, but it'll have to do.

Frank and Lester earned 63% of the votes, while the former teammates from SECRET SIX took 33% and 4% thought it was too close to call. Honestly, I'd barely side with team Marvel and I think it would be very close. While Catman is a weak link right as things get going, I believe that's countered by his teammate, Floyd Lawton, being the biggest threat as the match begins. Yes, Bullseye has accuracy feats that puts them both on the same level, but Deadshot has the better gear and armor for this kind of encounter (at least right away, that is). Additionally, Frank Castle is one helluva good shot as well -- I'd rank him as a notch under these two in that regard. But, at that distance with twin wrist guns and no hesitation when it comes to killing? I think he has what it takes to potentially keep them occupied, potentially allowing Catman to navigate the environment (be it rooftops, alleys or using cars as cover) to get close. It's entirely possible he'd take some damage before getting close and it's possible he'd be killed before getting within arm's reach, but it's also feasible he could get close and if he does, I think he'd eventually cut into them and is the MVP in brawling (whereas his teammate is easily the weakest in that regard).

Now, that's not to say he'd wreck either if he does get close -- both Frank and Lester are very formidable in close combat --- but I do believe Catman could eventually take a majority if he gets within striking distance. But again, that's a decent sized "if," isn't it? Ultimately, I think Marvel is a more balanced team and that'll serve them well in the end. I was hoping Deadshot's impressive and amazing accuracy feats (see his second volume for plenty of superb examples), no nonsense mindset and armor could compensate for Catman not having long range attacks and give him chance to close the gap, but unfortunately, it wasn't enough to save them.

Viner Argument of the Week for team Marvel is by Shallbecomeabattoo

"I think Punisher and Bullseye take this. Don't get me wrong, the Secret Six duo is absolutely formidable (and I am a big fan, even if I like Frank a bit more), but the 50 feet distance are crucial here. Franks team starts with two ranged fighters, who are absolutely both on top of their game. Bullseye is almost flawless on range, but Frank is also a VERY good shot. Maybe not Deadshot good, but even if Deadshot could also be better than Bullseye, which is debatable, he has to contend with two snipers at once, while Catman can only evade for the first few seconds and evading Franks and Bullseyes shots is not that easy.

IF the fight gets into close quarters its almost 50/50 and I would say too close too call, since Bullseye is slightly more skilled than Deadshot in hand to hand, but Catman is also a slightly better fighter than Frank.

Man, I love both those teams and would love to see that fight go down! Wow! Best match so far!"

Mat 'Inferiorego' Elfring

"What makes you think these guys are going to work together at all?! Frankly, I'm not buying this at all. But, I'll indulge you and pretend this could actually be a thing, even though we both know this could NEVER happen.

I think a lot of people underestimate Catman and his fighting abilities. I remember that being a big part of a couple SECRET SIX story lines. I see Bullseye and Punisher being the weakest links here. Again, this depends on the version of Punisher being used as well, since Ennis' Punisher had something powerful within him.

I just don't see Bullseye and Punisher taking this one. I don't know... I really just don't buy this fight at all. That's like asking me to team up with that local comedian I hate to run a weekly showcase. It's not happening. I'd rather die."

Corey 'Undeadpool' Schroeder

"This battle will be unrestrained ruthlessness at its finest. And while one might think that the advantage would initially go to Catman and Deadshot, since they've worked together, this could also be problematic as they might rely too much on each other.

I see Castle breaking off from Bullseye to go full-on stealth in the buildings, Floyd takes a few shots, but Bullseye deflects them with improvised projectiles, quickly sending a few pebbles up Deadshot's barrels and herein lies the biggest differentiator between the two sharpshooters: Lawton relies on guns, Lester can weaponize anything he gets his hands on. So while Catman charges in for the kill, he's peppered with razor-thin lacerations, starting him bleeding before he even closes in, mistaking Bullseye's long-range prowess to mean his close-range skills are lacking.

Meanwhile, Floyd's setting up his sniper rifle to provide Catman with cover, when Frank's special forces training allows him to get the drop on him, and while Deadshot may get off a couple of close-range shots with his pistols, but he's no melee fighter and Castle's beefed-up arsenal, and just plain higher skill level, would take this fight, ending with Lawton taking a spill out the window with Punisher tossing a grenade after him to make sure the criminal scum doesn't get back up.

Catman's "style-is-for-idiots" method of fighting catches Bullseye off-guard, that and Lester's refusal to take a man in a catsuit seriously, so both men are now suffering massive blood loss, but it all comes to naught when Punisher, using Deadshot's rifle, fires into Catman's back. Now the only question remaining is: does Punisher take a second shot at his ersatz partner?"

Gail Simone, writer of SECRET SIX

"This is a really tough one for me. My gut instinct, even though I love Deadshot and Catman more than chocolate, is that the Punisher and Bullseye take it.

But it truly could go either way. It all depends on range.

Here's how it breaks down for me: Deadshot and Bullseye are a virtual lock at a distance.I think their skills are about even. Close up, Floyd has one small advantage in that his gunsare on his wrists and he can't easily be disarmed. Bullseye could theoretically have his gunsor weapons shot from his hands, that's harder to do to Deadshot.

But I think hand-to-hand, Bullseye has been shown to be deadlier in close.

The opposite is true with Catman and the Punisher. Frank has no chance fighting Blake hand-to-hand.No chance at all, it wouldn't even be a contest. Batman completely outclassed Frank in close quarters,and Catman is near that level. It would be a slaughter.But there's no reason for Frank to ever let it get that close. Catman has no long range attack. The Punishershoots him in the head, case closed.

So my gut feeling is, sadly, it's the Marvel dudes most of the time in this one.

If Catman gets close, he'd take them both out before they had time to order ice cream."

Last but most definitely not least, here's a tease for next week's battle! Check the homepage on Monday to see who they are!


Previous 'Comic Vine Battle of the Week' results

Want to suggest a battle? Feel free to comment below or send it to Gregg via Twitter.

#1 Edited by broo1232 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman and ?

#2 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (859 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman vs Onix

#3 Edited by mightypug78 (365 posts) - - Show Bio

aquaman vs ?????.....

#4 Posted by mattitude22 (59 posts) - - Show Bio

wow I thought it would go the other way

#5 Posted by God_Spawn (39384 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman and the Thing.

Moderator Online
#6 Posted by batmannflash (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman vs someone...

#7 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (3003 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by Elwoodtoast (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Could be Namor sitting on a throne...?

#9 Posted by Azura_Thena (140 posts) - - Show Bio

Might be E.T.

#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (40280 posts) - - Show Bio

Catman & Deadshot where massivley lowballed this week

#11 Posted by Outside_85 (11766 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: My guess as well, maybe Aquaman can win that one? :)

#12 Posted by God_Spawn (39384 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude: Nah. He already used the Hulk. I think it may be the Thing but after finding the original picture, it isn't the one I was thinking of. Still, the bumpy complexion and size still make me think it will be him.

Moderator Online
#13 Edited by Saren (26785 posts) - - Show Bio

#14 Posted by MuyJingo (2744 posts) - - Show Bio

These are some very strange matchups.

#15 Posted by HollowPrince65 (143 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow....idk....Aquaman may actually win that one

#16 Posted by Loki9876 (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman should win

#17 Posted by ThorBoy (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing wins. Aquaman isn't as impressive out of the water, plus thing beat manor during AVX and he can go toe to toe with the hulk

#18 Posted by Shallbecomeabattoo (369 posts) - - Show Bio

OH YEAH!!! I have viner argument of the week! BOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAA!!!

Thanks a lot Gregg! Seems like our opinions are very much alike on this one. Cannot wait for the next battle. Aquaman vs. Thing. Wow. Also really good, but Athur takes this.

#19 Edited by JLDoom (2358 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by lesterlawton (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

Catman & Deadshot where massivley lowballed this week

Agreed. Also, DC needs to get Gail back on Secret Six! The new Squad is god-awful.

#21 Edited by Lvenger (23324 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice find Bane! Looks like it is Aquaman vs Thing next week.

#22 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2845 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Edited by Reignmaker (2366 posts) - - Show Bio

Really loved reading Gail Simone's response. So cool when we're able to hear from the creatives.

Her work on Catman is really the only reason he was even in this discussion. That was one character reboot that really worked well.

For those who remember it, that Batman fight on the rooftop still felt like PIS though. Maybe if it had occurred somewhat later in the series, after fans had been given a chance to know the new Catman it would have felt better. That being said, her work on Secret Six was fantastic. Undoubtedly her best work to date.

#24 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

Good result! As for the other, I say Aquaman has this. Just sayin'.

#25 Posted by YoungJustice (7241 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman vs Godzilla?

#26 Posted by Reignmaker (2366 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Pretty sure Thing is toast, but we'll see what arguments are made.

#27 Posted by Kerrigan (261 posts) - - Show Bio

If it wasn't for Aquaman's trident (about which I know little), I think the Thing would take this. Need to do a little research, although I admit I'm rooting for Ben.

#28 Edited by TDK_1997 (15892 posts) - - Show Bio

It should be Aquaman vs the Thing.

#29 Posted by Lvenger (23324 posts) - - Show Bio

@reignmaker: If Pre Flashpoint feats are brought in then maybe he is. The Thing does have some good striking and reaction feats in his belt. I'm still making my mind up for this fight.

#30 Edited by Hermatt (75 posts) - - Show Bio

I just can't take Catman seriously.

All I can think of is Adam West as Catman in the The Fairly Oddparents.

#32 Edited by nightwingnerd (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@hermatt said:

I just can't take Catman seriously.

All I can think of is Adam West as Catman in the The Fairly Oddparents.

Me too

#33 Posted by jwalser3 (6104 posts) - - Show Bio

God damn it. I think DeadShot stomps both of them in the accuracy department.


#34 Edited by comicace3 (8094 posts) - - Show Bio

@hermatt said:

I just can't take Catman seriously.

All I can think of is Adam West as Catman in the The Fairly Oddparents.

Me too

same here.

#35 Posted by Chaos Burn (1879 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone tell me what Aquamans powers vs hydration status is like out of water?

#36 Edited by manwithoutshame (659 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's gonna be Aquaman vs Godzilla!

#37 Edited by MonsterStomp (24520 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone tell me what Aquamans powers vs hydration status is like out of water?

How about we wait for the OP to put up rules and the location? I could easily say "How would thing fair in the middle of the ocean?".

#38 Posted by HushoftheWind (1202 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorboy: go......read.....new 52 Aquaman

#39 Posted by Onemoreposter (4253 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the ever lovin blue eyed thing, but Arthur should stomp.

#40 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (6375 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman wins because of the Trident by KO

#41 Posted by Supreme_Maj (308 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Arthur but here Aquaman is a dead fish Ben will finish him

#42 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (683 posts) - - Show Bio

#43 Posted by DragonEscarlata (395 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: What about Casey Jones vs. Gambit or Robin (Tim Drake)? I think that would be fun :-)

#44 Posted by Bobsjonjon (245 posts) - - Show Bio

Catman is the worst!

#45 Edited by jstndmnd (1084 posts) - - Show Bio

How does Aquaman not win this?

#46 Posted by capfan80 (363 posts) - - Show Bio

Sadly there is no car called the Aquaman.

#47 Posted by Veshark (9321 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoo! My man Frank and Lester took the win.

Can't wait for next week's match. Wonder if we can use pre-52 or if it's just new-52 feats.

#48 Posted by Cavemold (1818 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben is slow in water depends where the battle is taken at

#49 Posted by hart7668 (2334 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Even a writer of Secrete Six thought the Marvel team should win that one do the range fight it will become. Punisher and Bullseye had that one fair and square.

Aquaman should beat Thing.