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Edited 1 year, 2 months ago

Poll: Comic Vine Battle of the Week: Daredevil vs. Nightwing (505 votes)

Daredevil 52%
Nightwing 42%
Stalemate 5%

Welcome to the first Comic Vine Battle of the Week! Who do you honestly think would win if these two characters faced off?

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules:

  • Combatants will be in character.
  • This is a totally random encounter. This means neither character has knowledge on the other in this case.
  • They're fighting in a traditional downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night.
  • Even if they're both heroes, this won't be a match that ends in talking. Both have the objective to defeat the other character.
#51 Edited by RustyRoy (10826 posts) - - Show Bio

DD wins.

#52 Posted by amutant (267 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing wins read nightwing 19 and 20. His suit can take big bullets. He can fight blind. He can read peoples body's. Hed know DD is blind. He has better tech. Which include sonics.

This.

#53 Edited by kilon (116 posts) - - Show Bio

daredevil would always win in this fight.

#54 Posted by AllStarSuperman (19889 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilon said:

daredevil would always win in this fight.

it the batcave with 1000 screaming bats? i dont think so.

#55 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil wins. He's a way better fighter, doesn't hold back nearly as much as Grayson does. Plus, he's got super powers.

DD 9/10. I would rate DD pretty close to Batman overall...

#56 Posted by stu (378 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick wins 7/10. Bruce as mentioned in the past that dick could very well be a better hand to hand fighter than himself(because of his speed and athleticism). Dick also as more gadgets.Also DD doesnt really have any advantage with his sonar,because the equipment the bat-family wears(not sure if all gear have that) protect them from radar ,infrared etc. Also even if DD is one of the best acrobat from marvel,dick as years of professional experience on him.

As much as i like DD,he goes down.

#57 Posted by siddhartha (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Assuming they are not trying to kill each other and none of them is already angry enough to go berserk.

In the beginning they don't know each other, so obviously they both will try normal hand to hand combat where I think DD will have a slight edge(This is the only window where DD can win). After a short while NW will realize that DD is a good fighter and will be more cautious, relying more on his brain and gadgets, playing more on the defensive side(Making him much more difficult to beat). Once NW realizes DD's sonic sense his gadgets will do the rest easily. So Nightwing wins.

#58 Edited by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

Daredevil could win with his eyes closed!

Always!

Please, never disrespect DD like this again.

Agreed.

@kilon said:

daredevil would always win in this fight.

it the batcave with 1000 screaming bats? i dont think so.

That's not a random encounter in an unpopulated area. Daredevil just has more fighting ability than Nightwing. Yes, he was trained by Batman, and he is a great hand-to-hand fighter with extreme agility but Daredevil IS a super-human. He is also more ruthless. One argument people are making is 'Nightwing's new suit can deflect bullets'. Daredevil doesn't need to have a suit like that, he can freaking dodge bullets! I just don't think it's any contest. Daredevil would drop him. I would love to see this fight happen though.

#59 Edited by AllStarSuperman (19889 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:
@kilon said:

daredevil would always win in this fight.

it the batcave with 1000 screaming bats? i dont think so.

That's not a random encounter in an unpopulated area. Daredevil just has more fighting ability than Nightwing. Yes, he was trained by Batman, and he is a great hand-to-hand fighter with extreme agility but Daredevil IS a super-human. He is also more ruthless. One argument people are making is 'Nightwing's new suit can deflect bullets'. Daredevil doesn't need to have a suit like that, he can freaking dodge bullets! I just don't think it's any contest. Daredevil would drop him. I would love to see this fight happen though.

your kidding right? nightwing has dodged sniper rifles after being fired.

#60 Edited by Owie (3616 posts) - - Show Bio

I think DD takes a 7/10 majority--although each would be hard fought--through pure physical abilities and skills, but if Nightwing did go for the sonics it would be all over. That's such a boring ending that I'm just ignoring it. :)

I tend to see DD as being halfway between Nightwing and Batman.

#61 Edited by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

#62 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil is Nightwing's equal in almost everyway. In most of the ways that he is not, he is Nightwing's superior. The only advantage that Dick Grayson has in this fight is hit tech. Without prep time he would have no idea that sonic devices would give him such a big edge, and he rarely uses sonic devices in combat on there own. It would be out of character for him to do so here. Sure, he COULD use them, but Daredevil could also kill Nightwing with one nerve strike. Both actions are unlikely to happen in a fight where morals apply.

Skill:

Nightwing was trained as an acrobat for most of his life. He was taken in by Batman before he even hit puberty and the began his training in martial arts and as a detective. He is an excellent acrobat, an excellent fighter, and a solid detective, but in that last regard he is no where near as good as Batman, or even Tim Drake for that matter). His biggest strength in any given fight is his agility.

Daredevil did not begin his formal training as early as Nightwing, though even before he was blinded he was teaching himself how to fight. He was blinded around age ten to twelve and shortly afterwards began his training with Stick, who taught him out to control his powers, acrobatics, and hand to hand skills. He is skilled enough to stand up to some of the top fighters in the Marvel universe, and that's when he isn't employing his wide repertoire of nerve strikes. He is skilled at adapting to opponents on the fly, and is every bit as agile and acrobatic as Nightwing is.

I highlighted the portion that I did because it is a huge advantage for him. Here. Daredevil never underestimates his opponent. Not for more than a few seconds, anyway. Dick Grayson does. In Nightwing #1 he briefly faces off against a new villain named Psycho. Within a few panels Psycho has him in a position where he could deliver a killing blow. Nightwing was thrown off by an opponent who is his equal in terms of agility and acrobatics. Daredevil is also that. But maybe that isn't enough for you. Let's continue this analysis.

Strength:

I can't find any scans showing an actual weight of something Nightwing has lifted, but I know he has thrown Bane and moved large pieces of rubble. He is a pretty strong guy.

I DO have scans of Daredevil lifting things that have a set weight.

Lifting 450 lbs like it was 50, using a mail box as a melee weapon, and flipping a limousine that has several people in it. I'd say it is safe to say DD has the edge here.

Speed:

Again, I would say Daredevil has a slight edge based on feats. I have seen scans of Nightwing dodging bullets, but I have also seen scans of Daredevil deflecting bullets. The guy can bullet time thanks to his radar sense.

X-factor:

Pretty straight forward here: Nightwing's gear vs. Daredevil's senses. Nightwing has escrima sticks, a taser, throwing weapons, smoke bombs, sonic emitters, and other goodies, but he rarely uses most of that in most fights. His fighting style is more minimalistic, relying on his superior agility to get the job done.

Daredevil is a master of his enhanced senses. They make it impossible for someone to sneak up on him, give him total awareness of what is happening around him, and lets him avoid projectiles without any trouble. Despite what the Punisher would have you believe, Daredevil has shown that he can overcome sonic attacks even if Nightwing did think to use his sonic emitters. It is not an instant win for him.

Now I'm going to post all my scans down here, because this site is screwy and won't let me post them dispersed throughout.

I stand corrected, this site won't let me post all of my scans.

#63 Posted by FlashDamn (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@stu said:

Dick wins 7/10. Bruce as mentioned in the past that dick could very well be a better hand to hand fighter than himself(because of his speed and athleticism). Dick also as more gadgets.Also DD doesnt really have any advantage with his sonar,because the equipment the bat-family wears(not sure if all gear have that) protect them from radar ,infrared etc. Also even if DD is one of the best acrobat from marvel,dick as years of professional experience on him.

As much as i like DD,he goes down.

CORRECT

#64 Edited by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@stu said:

Dick wins 7/10. Bruce as mentioned in the past that dick could very well be a better hand to hand fighter than himself(because of his speed and athleticism). Dick also as more gadgets.Also DD doesnt really have any advantage with his sonar,because the equipment the bat-family wears(not sure if all gear have that) protect them from radar ,infrared etc. Also even if DD is one of the best acrobat from marvel,dick as years of professional experience on him.

As much as i like DD,he goes down.

Spoken like a man who knows nothing about Daredevil beyond the movie.

Daredevil has literal radar, not sonar. Please show a scan of Nightwing's costume making him invisible to radar. Even if he does have that, Daredevil still has his other enhanced senses to rely on (Nightwing's scent, heart beat, etc). Daredevil is every bit Nightwing's equal in terms of acrobatics. And Nightwing hasn't been a professional acrobat since he was ten.

#65 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32632 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_money_christmas said:
@allstarsuperman said:
@kilon said:

daredevil would always win in this fight.

it the batcave with 1000 screaming bats? i dont think so.

That's not a random encounter in an unpopulated area. Daredevil just has more fighting ability than Nightwing. Yes, he was trained by Batman, and he is a great hand-to-hand fighter with extreme agility but Daredevil IS a super-human. He is also more ruthless. One argument people are making is 'Nightwing's new suit can deflect bullets'. Daredevil doesn't need to have a suit like that, he can freaking dodge bullets! I just don't think it's any contest. Daredevil would drop him. I would love to see this fight happen though.

your kidding right? nightwing has dodged sniper rifles after being fired.

Nightwing might doge bullets but DD knows when a bullets is going to be fired before a triggers is even pulled

#66 Posted by AllStarSuperman (19889 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

#67 Edited by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_money_christmas said:

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

He didn't dodge the bullet. He saw the muzzle flare and moved slightly to the right thus avoiding the bullet. It shows he is fast, but he didn't bullet time.

#68 Edited by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, as nice as the Radar sense is, Nightwing does have his own advantage in senses. That is, he has vision.

I know it's great and all that Daredevil has the sonar thing going for him, and he's bested a list of opponents with vision I don't even care to start naming. But at the end of the day being blind is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.

Speed, and skill probably side with Daredevil. I won't deny that. But at best I would put him at a slight advantage in those categories. But at the end of the day I'd side with Nightwing's vastly superior versatility over any small advantage anywhere else. Even if he doesn't know Daredevil is blind he still has a list of gadgets that could give him the win.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#69 Edited by AllStarSuperman (19889 posts) - - Show Bio

@ferro_vida:

bullet speed > gun flash

Nightwing heard it and dodged

#70 Posted by notarandomguy (316 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil probably wouldn't hold back as much as Dick. So in the end DD wins.

This are exactly my thoughts, Dick tend to hold back a lot contrary to Jason Todd, so it means (and DD fights a bit dirty sometimes) he loses even with a chance of winning

#71 Edited by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@ferro_vida:

bullet speed > gun flash

Nightwing heard it and dodged

Yes, he heard it. Which is why there was no sound.

And are you SERIOUSLY arguing that a bullet travels faster than the speed of light?

#72 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@g_money_christmas said:

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

He didn't dodge the bullet. He saw the muzzle flare and moved slightly to the right thus avoiding the bullet. It shows he is fast, but he didn't bullet time.

So what you're telling me, is he moved out of the bullets trajectory after it was fired, but he didn't dodge it......?

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#73 Edited by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

You know, as nice as the Radar sense is, Nightwing does have his own advantage in senses. That is, he has vision.

I know it's great and all that Daredevil has the sonar thing going for him, and he's bested a list of opponents with vision I don't even care to start naming. But at the end of the day being blind is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.

I had honestly expected better of you than you throw down knowledge you don't have on a character. DD has a radar sense, not sonar.

He is also an expert at adapting to new situations and enemies, so I don't see how Nightwing is more versatile. Is it just because he can see?

#74 Posted by AllStarSuperman (19889 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@ferro_vida:

bullet speed > gun flash

Nightwing heard it and dodged

Yes, he heard it. Which is why there was no sound.

And are you SERIOUSLY arguing that a bullet travels faster than the speed of light?

whatever, no a bullet is not light speed. the point is Nightwing dodged sniper of it was shot.

#75 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@g_money_christmas said:

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

He didn't dodge the bullet. He saw the muzzle flare and moved slightly to the right thus avoiding the bullet. It shows he is fast, but he didn't bullet time.

So what you're telling me, is he moved out of the bullets trajectory after it was fired, but he didn't dodge it......?

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Yup. He was tipped off by something faster than a bullet and ducked to the right less than a foot. The way I stated it was no very precise, and I admit that. But using that scan as evidence on Nightwing bullet timing is fallacious.

#76 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@ferro_vida said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@ferro_vida:

bullet speed > gun flash

Nightwing heard it and dodged

Yes, he heard it. Which is why there was no sound.

And are you SERIOUSLY arguing that a bullet travels faster than the speed of light?

whatever, no a bullet is not light speed. the point is Nightwing dodged sniper of it was shot.

Shall I post scans from the five occasions Daredevil has done that? And no, Nightwing ducked when he saw the muzzle flash.

#77 Edited by Extremis (3334 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow great fight regardless who wins. And whoever does certainly doesn't come out clean.

I don't know much at all about DD and I love Nightwing and all but from what I do know about Murdock, he takes this.

He seems on a level below Batman but above Nightwing. So not sure who his equal would be from DC. Maybe Green Arrow? I'd love to see that fight!

#78 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

You know, as nice as the Radar sense is, Nightwing does have his own advantage in senses. That is, he has vision.

I know it's great and all that Daredevil has the sonar thing going for him, and he's bested a list of opponents with vision I don't even care to start naming. But at the end of the day being blind is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.

I had honestly expected better of you than you throw down knowledge you don't have on a character. DD has a radar sense, not sonar.

He is also an expert at adapting to new situations and enemies, so I don't see how Nightwing is more versatile. Is it just because he can see?

Sonar

Short for sound navigation and ranging. A method of detecting,locating, and determining the speed of objects through the use of reflected sound waves. A sound signal is produced, and the time it takes for the signal to reach an object and for its echo to return is used to calculate the object's distance. The Doppler effect can also be used to determine the object's relative velocity. Electronic sonar systems are used for submarine navigation and for detecting schools of fish. Some mammals, especially bats, use biological sonar to navigate and detect prey in dark conditions, commonly called echolocation.

Obviously this sounds nothing like what Daredevil uses to detect his opponents...what was I thinking.

Being able to adapt to different situations doesn't make someone's range of abilities more versatile, it just makes them a more versatile fighter in the sense that they can fight under different conditions. Nightwing is also adaptable, he's fought in many different environments, against a host of different gadgets, superpowers, enemies, and against a wide variety of different weapons. It's a moot point at best which one is better at adapting. However, Dick Greyson's superior arsenal provides a greater level of versatility. He has greater range, comparable fighting skills, comparable reflexes, and a suit that can tank bullets if needed.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#79 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@floopay said:

You know, as nice as the Radar sense is, Nightwing does have his own advantage in senses. That is, he has vision.

I know it's great and all that Daredevil has the sonar thing going for him, and he's bested a list of opponents with vision I don't even care to start naming. But at the end of the day being blind is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.

I had honestly expected better of you than you throw down knowledge you don't have on a character. DD has a radar sense, not sonar.

He is also an expert at adapting to new situations and enemies, so I don't see how Nightwing is more versatile. Is it just because he can see?

Sonar

Short for sound navigation and ranging. A method of detecting,locating, and determining the speed of objects through the use of reflected sound waves. A sound signal is produced, and the time it takes for the signal to reach an object and for its echo to return is used to calculate the object's distance. The Doppler effect can also be used to determine the object's relative velocity. Electronic sonar systems are used for submarine navigation and for detecting schools of fish. Some mammals, especially bats, use biological sonar to navigate and detect prey in dark conditions, commonly called echolocation.

Obviously this sounds nothing like what Daredevil uses to detect his opponents...what was I thinking.

Being able to adapt to different situations doesn't make someone's range of abilities more versatile, it just makes them a more versatile fighter in the sense that they can fight under different conditions. Nightwing is also adaptable, he's fought in many different environments, against a host of different gadgets, superpowers, enemies, and against a wide variety of different weapons. It's a moot point at best which one is better at adapting. However, Dick Greyson's superior arsenal provides a greater level of versatility. He has greater range, comparable fighting skills, comparable reflexes, and a suit that can tank bullets if needed.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Except it was literally stated in the comics that it is radar, not sonar.

Dick Grayson's superior arsenal that he rarely utilizes, greater range that won't help him here, and suit that can tank bullets against someone who doesn't use guns.

#80 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@g_money_christmas said:

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

He didn't dodge the bullet. He saw the muzzle flare and moved slightly to the right thus avoiding the bullet. It shows he is fast, but he didn't bullet time.

So what you're telling me, is he moved out of the bullets trajectory after it was fired, but he didn't dodge it......?

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Yup. He was tipped off by something faster than a bullet and ducked to the right less than a foot. The way I stated it was no very precise, and I admit that. But using that scan as evidence on Nightwing bullet timing is fallacious.

By that definition only blinded/visually impaired people can dodge things, as everyone else has a visual of what's to come before they are hit...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#81 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19908 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate.

Nightwing is skilled enough to hold his own against Daredevil, and has the feats to back that up. However, Daredevil over his longer career as a feature hero has made it so his martial arts combat skills are more impressive. That being said, it's not by too much for it to be a stomp. On the other hand, Nightwing has his own array of different gadgets to disorientate or even take out Matt, including the Sonic Batarang. Batman's the world's greatest Detective, so Dick is at least an adept in that field to attempt to find out why Daredevil is so agile and aware of his surroundings. Daredevil with his radar sense would be able to dodge most of the Bat-Gadgets, as he has dodged faster projectiles, but something with an explosive radius (like a scatter bomb) would disorientate him, or the main factor : Sonic Batarang. Daredevil still has a huge chance of KO'ing Nightwing before he has that chance though.

#82 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

And now you are putting words in my mouth. Cute.

No, people who actually dodge the bullet do dodge bullets. Nightwing saw the muzzle flash as the bullet was leaving the gun and ducked. It's like the difference between dodging someone's aim and dodging an actual bullet. The art clearly shows that it was the flash of the barrel that tipped him off.

#83 Edited by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@floopay said:

You know, as nice as the Radar sense is, Nightwing does have his own advantage in senses. That is, he has vision.

I know it's great and all that Daredevil has the sonar thing going for him, and he's bested a list of opponents with vision I don't even care to start naming. But at the end of the day being blind is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.

I had honestly expected better of you than you throw down knowledge you don't have on a character. DD has a radar sense, not sonar.

He is also an expert at adapting to new situations and enemies, so I don't see how Nightwing is more versatile. Is it just because he can see?

Sonar

Short for sound navigation and ranging. A method of detecting,locating, and determining the speed of objects through the use of reflected sound waves. A sound signal is produced, and the time it takes for the signal to reach an object and for its echo to return is used to calculate the object's distance. The Doppler effect can also be used to determine the object's relative velocity. Electronic sonar systems are used for submarine navigation and for detecting schools of fish. Some mammals, especially bats, use biological sonar to navigate and detect prey in dark conditions, commonly called echolocation.

Obviously this sounds nothing like what Daredevil uses to detect his opponents...what was I thinking.

Being able to adapt to different situations doesn't make someone's range of abilities more versatile, it just makes them a more versatile fighter in the sense that they can fight under different conditions. Nightwing is also adaptable, he's fought in many different environments, against a host of different gadgets, superpowers, enemies, and against a wide variety of different weapons. It's a moot point at best which one is better at adapting. However, Dick Greyson's superior arsenal provides a greater level of versatility. He has greater range, comparable fighting skills, comparable reflexes, and a suit that can tank bullets if needed.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Except it was literally stated in the comics that it is radar, not sonar.

Dick Grayson's superior arsenal that he rarely utilizes, greater range that won't help him here, and suit that can tank bullets against someone who doesn't use guns.

Superior durability is not a disadvantage on Dick Grayson's part. His suit can tank bullets, and Daredevil's can't. Therefore, Dick Greyson's suit provides a greater level of protection. Matt has been both shot and punched by Frank Castle in the past, he's not invincible against peak humans. And I understand Frank Castle is no jobber, and is an amazing fighter, but so is Dick.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#84 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Heavier armour is, because it would slow him down. And his face and neck are still uncovered, so it's not like he can't be knocked out. And Frank Castle is lucky to get a few shots in on Daredevil under the best of circumstances.

#85 Posted by Reignmaker (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

Until Nightwing is treated like a tier one hero in his own universe, he'll never be a serious contender in voting contests like these. Daredevil wins.

Read more about it here.

#86 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

Wow great fight regardless who wins. And whoever does certainly doesn't come out clean.

I don't know much at all about DD and I love Nightwing and all but from what I do know about Murdock, he takes this.

He seems on a level below Batman but above Nightwing. So not sure who his equal would be from DC. Maybe Green Arrow? I'd love to see that fight!

No, Matt would definitely take out Green Arrow. I'm trying to think of his equal but I'm coming up blank. Somewhere between Batman and Nightwing.

@allstarsuperman said:

@g_money_christmas said:

@allstarsuperman: That's a bunch of BS. Non non-superhuman could dodge a projectile going 1,800 miles an hour. I mean, I'm not denying it was in the comics but Daredevil has Nightwing beat in reflexes and agility.

He didn't dodge the bullet. He saw the muzzle flare and moved slightly to the right thus avoiding the bullet. It shows he is fast, but he didn't bullet time.

That scan is a horrible representation. The muzzle velocity of a rifle like that is approximately 2,800 to 3,000 feet per second. The sniper is approximately 30 yards from that window, meaning Nightwing would have been dead before the muzzle even had a chance to flash. As seen in the scans with Matt, he could tell that there was a laser sight on his forehead and can smell gunpowder from blocks away. This is a no contest battle and unless you can find a better scan of him dodging a bullet, your argument is moot.

#87 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6436 posts) - - Show Bio

Random encounter (remember that). Daredevil takes this one.

#88 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

And now you are putting words in my mouth. Cute.

No, people who actually dodge the bullet do dodge bullets. Nightwing saw the muzzle flash as the bullet was leaving the gun and ducked. It's like the difference between dodging someone's aim and dodging an actual bullet. The art clearly shows that it was the flash of the barrel that tipped him off.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth, him dodging a bullet by seeing the muzzle flash is no different than someone dodging a punch after it's thrown. Or dodging shrapnel after a grenade goes off. The plain and simple fact is the bullet was in the air before he moved out of the way. That's no different than Daredevil hearing sonic booms, or hearing someone about to pull the trigger BEFORE the bullet is fired. It's a bullet time reaction feat, plain and simple.

At the end of the day he dodged something moving roughly 3 times the speed of sound after seeing something moving at the speed of light. Which means, assuming that guy was 0.25 miles away, he had .000001342 second heads up (based on the speed of light) about a projectile that would be arriving 0.13249 seconds later (based on the muzzle velocity of a Barrett M82 minus the time it took for the light to reach dick). That's superhuman reaction time, as it takes the average human brain 0.2 seconds to process information, and peak human brains about 0.17 seconds.

So I don't see there being much of a difference, and I think I pretty fairly assumed minimal values there.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#89 Posted by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

I give it to Nightwing. to suggest that Dick is not smart enough to press the sonics button is a little ridiculous. Nightwing is faster and more agile then Matt so he could probably dodge DD attacks long enough to figure out DD weakness. not to mention sound is not the only weakness DD has, pretty much the overload of any of his senses can render him useless in a fight. when you really think about it Nightwing's entire arsenal is full of non-lethal weapons. how do non-lethal weapons work? by overloading the senses. so any non-lethal weapon Nightwing uses can have a devastating affect on DD. Now for the amount of time, it has already been stated that Nightwing is faster and more agile than DD and neither one has superhuman strength so Nightwing may be able to hold his own for a while in a h2h fight but once DD starts to get the better of him Nightwing uses a gadget to get DD away which would have a noticeable affect because DD would react more to an overload of the senses . another downfall of DD is that his personality can lead him to become more and more reckless when the intensity goes up while Nightwing becomes more focused so in reality the longer this fight goes on the better chance Nightwing has to exploit DD weakness and DD becomes more reckless while Nightwing gains focus.

#90 Posted by Ferro Vida (34671 posts) - - Show Bio

Until Nightwing is treated like a tier one hero in his own universe, he'll never be a serious contender in voting contests like these. Daredevil wins.

Read more about it here.

That's not the reason that Nightwing loses. Nice plug, though.

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@floopay:

And now you are putting words in my mouth. Cute.

No, people who actually dodge the bullet do dodge bullets. Nightwing saw the muzzle flash as the bullet was leaving the gun and ducked. It's like the difference between dodging someone's aim and dodging an actual bullet. The art clearly shows that it was the flash of the barrel that tipped him off.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth, him dodging a bullet by seeing the muzzle flash is no different than someone dodging a punch after it's thrown. Or dodging shrapnel after a grenade goes off. The plain and simple fact is the bullet was in the air before he moved out of the way. That's no different than Daredevil hearing sonic booms, or hearing someone about to pull the trigger BEFORE the bullet is fired. It's a bullet time reaction feat, plain and simple.

At the end of the day he dodged something moving roughly 3 times the speed of sound after seeing something moving at the speed of light. Which means, assuming that guy was 0.25 miles away, he had .000001342 second heads up (based on the speed of light) about a projectile that would be arriving 0.13249 seconds later (based on the muzzle velocity of a Barrett M82 minus the time it took for the light to reach dick). That's superhuman reaction time, as it takes the average human brain 0.2 seconds to process information, and peak human brains about 0.17 seconds.

So I don't see there being much of a difference, and I think I pretty fairly assumed minimal values there.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

No, a bullet was leaving the muzzle as he moved. It is different.

That was no a stealth sniper. If it was then the bullets would have hit ahead of the "blam blam blam." They occurred at the same time, so your numbers are wrong.

#91 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb said:

I give it to Nightwing. to suggest that Dick is not smart enough to press the sonics button is a little ridiculous. Nightwing is faster and more agile then Matt so he could probably dodge DD attacks long enough to figure out DD weakness. not to mention sound is not the only weakness DD has, pretty much the overload of any of his senses can render him useless in a fight. when you really think about it Nightwing's entire arsenal is full of non-lethal weapons. how do non-lethal weapons work? by overloading the senses. so any non-lethal weapon Nightwing uses can have a devastating affect on DD. Now for the amount of time, it has already been stated that Nightwing is faster and more agile than DD and neither one has superhuman strength so Nightwing may be able to hold his own for a while in a h2h fight but once DD starts to get the better of him Nightwing uses a gadget to get DD away which would have a noticeable affect because DD would react more to an overload of the senses . another downfall of DD is that his personality can lead him to become more and more reckless when the intensity goes up while Nightwing becomes more focused so in reality the longer this fight goes on the better chance Nightwing has to exploit DD weakness and DD becomes more reckless while Nightwing gains focus.

No

#92 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Heavier armour is, because it would slow him down. And his face and neck are still uncovered, so it's not like he can't be knocked out. And Frank Castle is lucky to get a few shots in on Daredevil under the best of circumstances.

There's no indication it's heavier at all, that's just an assumption with no basis. Silk is more protective than cloth, and it's lighter. Dragon Skin body armor is lighter than Kevlar (Dragon Skin is a real life body armor, not some fantasy setting thing), and it's much, much more protective. His new armor has not been shown to hinder his movements or reflexes at all, it's just shown to be more protective, so it's unfair to assume it hinders his movement if he's been shown to still be able to perform feats on the same level as prior to owning it.

He also has body language reading, which Daredevil can do as well. Nightwing is extremely fast, extremely acrobatic, agile, and an extremely well trained fighter. Him having better armor, and a bigger arsenal at his disposal is not a disadvantage.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#93 Posted by ShadowX (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

I would guess 6 out of ten goes to niggtwing, based off my understanding of thr characters. Although i probably don't know as much as others. His weapons are morr high tech and I think Dick is smart enough to figure out Daredevils abilities and possible weaknesses. I think the times Dick wins he would just barely take it

#94 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@reignmaker said:

Until Nightwing is treated like a tier one hero in his own universe, he'll never be a serious contender in voting contests like these. Daredevil wins.

Read more about it here.

That's not the reason that Nightwing loses. Nice plug, though.

@floopay said:

@ferro_vida said:

@floopay:

And now you are putting words in my mouth. Cute.

No, people who actually dodge the bullet do dodge bullets. Nightwing saw the muzzle flash as the bullet was leaving the gun and ducked. It's like the difference between dodging someone's aim and dodging an actual bullet. The art clearly shows that it was the flash of the barrel that tipped him off.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth, him dodging a bullet by seeing the muzzle flash is no different than someone dodging a punch after it's thrown. Or dodging shrapnel after a grenade goes off. The plain and simple fact is the bullet was in the air before he moved out of the way. That's no different than Daredevil hearing sonic booms, or hearing someone about to pull the trigger BEFORE the bullet is fired. It's a bullet time reaction feat, plain and simple.

At the end of the day he dodged something moving roughly 3 times the speed of sound after seeing something moving at the speed of light. Which means, assuming that guy was 0.25 miles away, he had .000001342 second heads up (based on the speed of light) about a projectile that would be arriving 0.13249 seconds later (based on the muzzle velocity of a Barrett M82 minus the time it took for the light to reach dick). That's superhuman reaction time, as it takes the average human brain 0.2 seconds to process information, and peak human brains about 0.17 seconds.

So I don't see there being much of a difference, and I think I pretty fairly assumed minimal values there.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

No, a bullet was leaving the muzzle as he moved. It is different.

That was no a stealth sniper. If it was then the bullets would have hit ahead of the "blam blam blam." They occurred at the same time, so your numbers are wrong.

Was leaving the muzzle, so the 0.25 miles I calculated should include the 2.5 feet the bullet had to travel to escape the muzzle of the gun.... Bullets don't accelerate AFTER they have been fired, the moment they are fired they begin to lose velocity, that's a fact. Resistance enacts upon an object the moment it begins moving if there is resistance to be had, therefore objects do not accelerate after they've begun movement unless there is a second force propelling them forward. Bullets are not rockets, and have method of propulsion after they've been fired, therefore they cannot accelerate if any resistance is placed on them after they've been fired, they instantly begin to decelerate at a certain rate. This is true for all of the bullets Dare Devil has dodged as well.

Based on what!? The BLAM BLAM BLAM occured AFTER the bullets had already moved beyond what the panel had shown. 1908 miles per hour, which is about mach 2.8 or so if I remember correctly, would mean the bullets would arrive before the sound arrived. This was shown in the scan as the "Blam Blam Blam" occurred long after the bullets had shattered the window and flown through the room.

In fact, if you read it left to right (as you're supposed to), the sound of the glass shattering actually occurred before the sound of the gunfire had arrived.

Over and above this if you look at the last panel you can see he moved out of the way, and under the glass before the sound from the first bullets had arrived, as I count four bullets fired but only 3 shots accounted for.

It's all right there in the scan.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#95 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23151 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil is Nightwing's equal in almost everyway. In most of the ways that he is not, he is Nightwing's superior. The only advantage that Dick Grayson has in this fight is hit tech. Without prep time he would have no idea that sonic devices would give him such a big edge, and he rarely uses sonic devices in combat on there own. It would be out of character for him to do so here. Sure, he COULD use them, but Daredevil could also kill Nightwing with one nerve strike. Both actions are unlikely to happen in a fight where morals apply.

Skill:

Nightwing was trained as an acrobat for most of his life. He was taken in by Batman before he even hit puberty and the began his training in martial arts and as a detective. He is an excellent acrobat, an excellent fighter, and a solid detective, but in that last regard he is no where near as good as Batman, or even Tim Drake for that matter). His biggest strength in any given fight is his agility.

Daredevil did not begin his formal training as early as Nightwing, though even before he was blinded he was teaching himself how to fight. He was blinded around age ten to twelve and shortly afterwards began his training with Stick, who taught him out to control his powers, acrobatics, and hand to hand skills. He is skilled enough to stand up to some of the top fighters in the Marvel universe, and that's when he isn't employing his wide repertoire of nerve strikes. He is skilled at adapting to opponents on the fly, and is every bit as agile and acrobatic as Nightwing is.

I highlighted the portion that I did because it is a huge advantage for him. Here. Daredevil never underestimates his opponent. Not for more than a few seconds, anyway. Dick Grayson does. In Nightwing #1 he briefly faces off against a new villain named Psycho. Within a few panels Psycho has him in a position where he could deliver a killing blow. Nightwing was thrown off by an opponent who is his equal in terms of agility and acrobatics. Daredevil is also that. But maybe that isn't enough for you. Let's continue this analysis.

Strength:

I can't find any scans showing an actual weight of something Nightwing has lifted, but I know he has thrown Bane and moved large pieces of rubble. He is a pretty strong guy.

I DO have scans of Daredevil lifting things that have a set weight.

Lifting 450 lbs like it was 50, using a mail box as a melee weapon, and flipping a limousine that has several people in it. I'd say it is safe to say DD has the edge here.

Speed:

Again, I would say Daredevil has a slight edge based on feats. I have seen scans of Nightwing dodging bullets, but I have also seen scans of Daredevil deflecting bullets. The guy can bullet time thanks to his radar sense.

X-factor:

Pretty straight forward here: Nightwing's gear vs. Daredevil's senses. Nightwing has escrima sticks, a taser, throwing weapons, smoke bombs, sonic emitters, and other goodies, but he rarely uses most of that in most fights. His fighting style is more minimalistic, relying on his superior agility to get the job done.

Daredevil is a master of his enhanced senses. They make it impossible for someone to sneak up on him, give him total awareness of what is happening around him, and lets him avoid projectiles without any trouble. Despite what the Punisher would have you believe, Daredevil has shown that he can overcome sonic attacks even if Nightwing did think to use his sonic emitters. It is not an instant win for him.

Now I'm going to post all my scans down here, because this site is screwy and won't let me post them dispersed throughout.

I stand corrected, this site won't let me post all of my scans.

Nicely done =)

#96 Posted by Extremis (3334 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_money_christmas: yeah I suppose

I always think of GA as slightly above Nightwing though as Ollie has been shown to be an on par rival of Deathstroke on several occasions, even getting the better of him. So idk, DD could win but I think GA has just as good a chance, seeing how close people think Nightwing and DD is it might go to Ollie.

#97 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil wins.

#98 Edited by Spartnqbrn (28 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a Nightwing fan, but I think Daredevil wins in a close one.

#99 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going DD on this one... While Grayson can beat him, in a one-off random encounter DD's going to take this due to him actually having superpowers to go along with his skill. Grayson's got tech, but he doesn't know who he's fighting, so using that tech effectively is pretty iffy. If this was a majority type fight I'd give it to Nightwing since once he learns DD's weaknesses he'll take full advantage. In one-off random encounter though he doesn't have the time or luxury as DD's constantly on the attack... and eventually Grayson and goes down. Daredevil FTW

#100 Edited by SlimJ87D (9319 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Nice scans Johnny, on top of that he managed to dodge gunfire from the Winter Soldier who is a great shooter as well.

If DD is used to dodging Bullseye's projectiles, there's nothing Grayson's projectiles got on him.