#1 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

ive noticed this issue with allot of us. when we see our favorite characters we expect them to always be portrayed the same way as they were when we fell in love with them. this just isnt realistic of us. in the main continuity yes they should be portrayed a certain way but in one-offs, movies and mini-series' we should be open to possibilities. the two that stick in my mind are two of the most polarizing things in comics right now, MOS and Allstar Batman and Robin. imo, if you approach those things with the idea that "this should be superman as he was portrayed by grant Morrison" or "this should be batman as portrayed by Grant Morrison" then you are setting yourself up to be disappointed. Not necessarily because anything that isnt Grant Morrison is inherently bad but because if you bite into a pizza and taste pudding you are going to be severely disappointed. I look at the MOS universe as its own thing seperate from DC continuty and thus i am ok that he killed zod. its not like he was a bloodlusted maniac either. killing was just his last resort and because i look at allstar batman and robin i am ok that batman did and said the things he did and said. i would be interested to read more batman from that universe. after reading Allstar the first time i was very angry...but after approaching it with this POV it throughly enjoyed it. it made me laugh it made me cringe and the art...jim lee's best work. period. So the main point of this is me saying that we should learn to separate things in our minds. dont always expect to see a certain character portrayed a certain way. another quick example. people always are complaining about n52 superman being brash and hot headed.....he's way younger than he was pre-52 so its to be expected he has more character flaws.....but enough of my rant. time for your opinions

#2 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: well said sir, well said.

*applauds the maturity shown in this thread*

#3 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be posted in a pop up that appears just before opening any thread.

#4 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

*Gives Applause* I still don't like All Star Batman and Robin, but you articulated yourself brilliantly here, and presented something all comic fans should think about doing when encountering their favorite characters in other media. Very well said indeed.

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#5 Edited by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

*bows* thanks for the kind words :)

#6 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (8728 posts) - - Show Bio

#7 Edited by fil123 (614 posts) - - Show Bio

regardless all-star batman and robin still sucks. only positives that came from that book were:

batman banging canary and "goddamn batman"

#8 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

@fil123 said:

regardless all-star batman and robin still sucks. only positives that came from that book were:

batman banging canary and "goddamn batman"

agree to disagree then. as its own parallel universe i enjoyed it very much

#9 Edited by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by M3th (2099 posts) - - Show Bio

THat's wHat MetH Has been saying.

June'sVeryOwn -ABstract4$$#073-

#11 Edited by Squares (8392 posts) - - Show Bio

Well said, sir.

@fil123 said:

regardless all-star batman and robin still sucks. only positives that came from that book were:

batman banging canary and "goddamn batman"

I disagree, the whole 'love chunks' bit had me laughing pretty hard. Honestly the only thing I enjoyed about ASBAR.

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

Well said, sir.

@fil123 said:

regardless all-star batman and robin still sucks. only positives that came from that book were:

batman banging canary and "goddamn batman"

I disagree, the whole 'love chunks' bit had me laughing pretty hard. Honestly the only thing I enjoyed about ASBAR.

The Goddman Batman bit is still laugh worthy till today. Lol.

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#13 Posted by Squares (8392 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I suppose. Personally I didn't derive much amusement from it.

#14 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares:

The Goddamn Batman isn't happy that you don't derive amusement from his Goddamn meme!

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#15 Posted by Squares (8392 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by SoA (5255 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

does anyone disagree?

#19 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

does anyone disagree?

There really isn't anything to disagree with man. You just laid out your argument too perfectly. Lol.

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#20 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

You've destroyed all thoughts of a counter argument

#21 Posted by HeckTate (1426 posts) - - Show Bio

Well said, sir. Although I for one would be pleasantly surprised if I bit into a pizza and tasted pudding.

#22 Edited by muhabba (301 posts) - - Show Bio

The best example of this is basicaly, in my opinion, the Marvel movies. I think they've done a great job of keeping the core of the characters and cutting out the extra baggage.

#23 Edited by longbowhunter (7736 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as the it's done well I don't mind seeing changes made to my favorite characters. Case in point, I'm loving Jeff Lemire on Green Arrow even though it's a far cry from the Oliver Queen I'm used to. A lot of care has been taken in rebuilding his mythology and creating a strong supporting cast for the character. That's all I really care about.

#24 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

does anyone disagree?

There really isn't anything to disagree with man. You just laid out your argument too perfectly. Lol.

lol now of could just do the same thing on my avionics paper.....i really should get off of comic vine

#25 Edited by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

Nicely said.

#26 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@wolverine08 said:

@sog7dc said:

does anyone disagree?

There really isn't anything to disagree with man. You just laid out your argument too perfectly. Lol.

lol now of could just do the same thing on my avionics paper.....i really should get off of comic vine

The Vine is addicting bro! It'll suck you in, and never let you out. Lol.

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#27 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: everytime youwant to get off either someone is wrong on the internet (and we all know ya cat just let someone on the internet be wrong) or there is the perfect topic that youve been waiting on all day

#28 Posted by MisterAnderson (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

Astute observations, but I dinnae think I can completely agree. Well, perhaps. You are generally right, but I think there are two kinds of fans on hand, those who hold the notion that the characters they fell in love with are sacred and immutable, and those who have grown up and expect their heroes to have changed into their "mature" perceptions of the world. Let's look at Batman for a moment:

1930s- Pulp detective, mystery man, gruesome rogue's gallery.

Late 1960s television- A caricature of comic book characters with villains to match.

late, late 60s-1970s comics- Neil Adams, back to detection and mystery, rogue's gallery to match.

80s- Grim and gritty Batman, psychopathic enemies

90s- Norm Breyfogle, Kelly Jones, revamps, replacements, and a mix of old and new villains in an attempt to balance it all out

All-Star Batman- "I am the god damned Batman," the worst Batman story I've ever read, but one of the best Punisher stories.

New 52 Batman- A new era, still finding its feet.

Consider historically what happened during these eras, how Batman fans non-fandom worlds were changing. Writers changed the people's hero in order to give generations a new figure to pin their hopes on, to inspire them, while trying to pay homage to the old. This has occurred with all the biggies. Sometimes the changes are successful (YAY!), and sometimes they're Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man's head or Red and Blue Supermen or bloody Spider-clones. There's no crime in change. There's no sin in fans who do not want to embrace change. Just so long as we don't run out of new stories and hope for an amazing tomorrow.

#29 Posted by PowerHerc (85336 posts) - - Show Bio

Good points.

#30 Posted by SOG7dc (8186 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

Astute observations, but I dinnae think I can completely agree. Well, perhaps. You are generally right, but I think there are two kinds of fans on hand, those who hold the notion that the characters they fell in love with are sacred and immutable, and those who have grown up and expect their heroes to have changed into their "mature" perceptions of the world. Let's look at Batman for a moment:

1930s- Pulp detective, mystery man, gruesome rogue's gallery.

Late 1960s television- A caricature of comic book characters with villains to match.

late, late 60s-1970s comics- Neil Adams, back to detection and mystery, rogue's gallery to match.

80s- Grim and gritty Batman, psychopathic enemies

90s- Norm Breyfogle, Kelly Jones, revamps, replacements, and a mix of old and new villains in an attempt to balance it all out

All-Star Batman- "I am the god damned Batman," the worst Batman story I've ever read, but one of the best Punisher stories.

New 52 Batman- A new era, still finding its feet.

Consider historically what happened during these eras, how Batman fans non-fandom worlds were changing. Writers changed the people's hero in order to give generations a new figure to pin their hopes on, to inspire them, while trying to pay homage to the old. This has occurred with all the biggies. Sometimes the changes are successful (YAY!), and sometimes they're Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man's head or Red and Blue Supermen or bloody Spider-clones. There's no crime in change. There's no sin in fans who do not want to embrace change. Just so long as we don't run out of new stories and hope for an amazing tomorrow.

i see where youre coming from with that but, as i said in the OP, i do believe that in canon they should be portrayed a certain way. Batman should have his moral code superman should be selfless, Thor should be slightly arrogant etc. but with that being said we should be open to different things in the case of things outside of canon. for example; batman earth one. Batman Earth One was NOT the bruce wayne i and millions of others have fallen in love with. the only similarity was the cowl. BUT, its a different universe. a parallel universe so by definition it has the same "slope" (bruce's parents were still killed alfred is still the butler it still takes place in gotham etc.) but it is NOT the same lineand we as comic fans should be ok with that. if dc tried to make that the canonical version of batman and changed him that much i admit id be outraged. but because that batman exists in that universe im perfectly fine with his existence and would like to read more so as to see where that version of bruce's story goes. i feel the same way about allstar batman, MOS superman, Red son superman. i present to you this: the only difference between red son superman and allstar batman is that people were prepared to see a different version of superman in red son and in allstar batman they were prepared to see a classic batman and robin story.

#31 Posted by Pperspectiveandreality (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

This should roll at the beginning of MOS like that thing at the beginning of Star Wars.