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#51 Posted by Frobin (97 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan: No it isn't ... or at least ... it isn't anymore. Retrospective it is. As satire, as joke, as childhood memory ... but not as movie or TV adaptation of the superhero comic book character. It is and it has always been a mockery and a satire of the superhero genre. Seen within these limitations it's really funny (though I can't stand it anymore) and awesome ... but I don't think that Marvel want's to make a mockery of its own genre and character! So in this case "goes 60s Batman" means no compliment!

#52 Posted by CptPanda29 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: No Killain was just saying that for effect, he was monologue-ing.

#53 Edited by Azura_Thena (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@frobin said:

For me, but also in a more generally and reasonable perspectiv, Iron Man 3 is the worst superhero movie and one of the most annoying comic book adaptationssince ... well, since 60s Batman TV show, I guess. Yeah, I know ... this show is very popular and many love it: retrospective. But it made a joke of the character and the superhero genre, it was satire ... and besides that's the reason the 1989 Batman movie bei Tim Burton and even more the Chris Nolan trilogy has been such a success: Because it portrayed the character much more in the spirit of the comic book and took itself and the character more seriously.


In the first Iron Man movie and even more in the Avengers movie we've seen how funny AND cool Tony Stark / Iron Man can be as a movie character. BUT with Iron Man 3 we've seen just a senseless plot, in fact no real story to tell. The movie turns the character into Disney kids comedy, the fun is mainly childish irony (not the cool sarcasm of the Tony Stark seen in the Avengers movie) . Funny moments, but just for cheap laughter.

Disappointing and annoying for comic book readers, but even meaningless for movie goers. But (of course) amazing MARKETING - since (after seeing the trailers) I really was looking forward to another great Marvel movie.


I admit that the Mandarin twist made me laugh ... but just for a moment and for what? Even before the twist I considered the Mandarin not very well portrayed (with the exception of his personal look ... his terror organisation was way to much islamic fundamentalist designed). It wouldn't be a problem to portray the Mandarin without the stereotypes of the comic book characters ... just as a Chinese genius, not a terrorist, more a behind the scenes super crime godfather ... or Tony Stark's Chinese counterpart, but with much more ambitions to take over control. But then the Mandarin is a joke and Aldrich Killian is the Mandarin. Besides: Can anybody explain the plot? Why Killian wants to kill the president ... and of course, his issues with Tony are all about a girl and humiliation. A boy's fight (again). So cheap!

And Extremis ... it has NOTHING to do with the Extremis of the comic book. However, wouldn't be a problem ... if it would make sense at all ... in the movie. But it doesn't ... Extremis is the next step of human evolution? It genetically converts humans into some sort of dragons or human torches? Spitting fire and these cheap CGI of glowing heat beneath the skin ... come on ... that's the next level of human evolution. WHAT's about a plot that makes SENSE?!

Failed adaptation for the movie

Besides the movie is totally senseless even for movie goers who doesn't read the comic book. Most of all this movie is really annoying IF YOU ARE A FANBOY! Do you know why GAME OF THRONES or The Walking Dead are such a big success? Because (so far) both shows did pretty well in adapting the books and comics into TV. The Walking Dead showed that you can - and even should - make adaptations to comic book characters.

BUT imagine you read Game of Thrones ... you know the Kingslayer ... but then in the TV show it would be someone completely different than Jaime Lannister. But called Kingslayer ... just for the fans to have some recognition value. And then you have The Wall ... but it's something completely different than the wall in the books. Wouldn't fans be annoyed ... feel a bit played for a sucker?

Why calling something Extremis in the movie that have nothing in common with Extremis? Such a waste. Why using a great villain's name just to make a joke out of the character. As I said before ... Iron Man can be FUNNY and COOL as seen in Avengers. Adaptation means NOT using keywords for stupid fanboys to please them ... it means changing some things for the better to fit the medium or the times or the target group or whatever, BUT saving the spirit and the core of the character ... maybe changing the plot, but telling the same story. That didn't happen here.

And what's about the boy sidekick ... a little bit Disney family entertainment? Meaningless action without a plot, cheap laughter and cheap CGI, childish irony and a movie which doesn't know what it wants to be: a satire of Iron Man, a joke ... or a movie taking the character seriously (which doesn't exclude fun and irony).

EPIC FAIL! Such a downfall. Iron Man goes 60s Batman!

If that's what Disney is doing to Marvel ... the dark side took over! :(

I disagree with much of what you are saying. But since you are clearly not in a state to discuss this, I will just point out that you have your facts wrong with Extremis. The only thing about Extremis in the movie that is different was the "glitch" where the heat can become too much and the bodies explode. You are angry about the fire-breathing scene. Were you aware that is what it did in the comic? Mallen breathed fire. Tony altered Extremis before he put it in his body. As for the rest, I think you are injecting a lot into this movie that is simply not there, just to justify your blind hate.

#54 Posted by Azura_Thena (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: No Killain was just saying that for effect, he was monologue-ing.

I don't see how that matters. He is the Mandarin. All the plans were his. All the orders given were his. He is the Mandarin, he just had some guy as a scapegoat.

#55 Posted by kriminal (646 posts) - - Show Bio


of course people care about the madarin. its mostly big time iron man fans like me. if read iron man comics you see the potential that the character had. read the last fraction run from 510-526(if you can get past the art, which i hate but great story)

#56 Edited by SlickyMike88 (224 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Mandarine Bin Kingsly would be the main foe , he seemed like a big threat for Tony Stark , sadly no :P

#57 Posted by DEADPOOL (2709 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say that I LOVED the twist, it was so amusing and brilliantly done.

...However, I also HATED the twist, because I wanted to see Iron Man fight the Mandarin and not a guy that's just like all of the other enemies in the movie. What was unique about Aldrich that set him aside from that soldier, or the girl that attacked Iron Man? Nothing. Super strength, regeneration, and fire. Still though, Aldrich Killian was well done.

Well, I guess that twist is probably why Mandarin wasn't Asian which was making me scratch my head.

#58 Edited by MrMiracle77 (1659 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasn't disappointed with the twist for one simple reason: I saw it coming.

No one can question that Ben Kingsley is a brilliant actor. Schindler's List, Ghandi, I really don't need to compile a list. But he also has a bit of a quirky streak and has a very high tolerance for playing really goofy roles in a serious way. Bloodrayne, Thunderbirds, that list is pretty long too. That being said, I found it a little difficult to believe that Paramount, the producers, and the rest of the creative staff would have him carry the third Iron Man film on his own after the really sinister performances we saw in the first two, and in the Avengers.

I had the feeling something was up from the very first trailer. And within minutes of the film's opening and the appearance of Guy Pierce's character, it all quickly fell into place for me.

#59 Edited by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n I wished the Mandarin in the movie was the same Mandarin from comics, but I also thought that Ben Kinglsey was so flipping hilarious, that I didnt really even care when it happened.

Mandarin - "I have a substance problem"

Tony - "And they said they would help you get clean?"

Mandarin - "No, they said they'd get me more."


#60 Posted by MatKrenz (1233 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the twist was really well played and worked really well with the themes the movie presented of exploring the "faces" of groups in a conflict.

#61 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: Yes and no. Yes in a sense that everything Aldrich Killian had done was in the name of "Mandarin", but there was no actual entity named "The Mandarin" in the movie. That's what I referred to.

@w0nd: Yes they were but not actually as an actual object. It was more a 'symbol' for unveiling Mandarin on the screen.

#62 Posted by tupiaz (2183 posts) - - Show Bio

@om1kron said:

people get so bent out of shape. I actually did not know the origin of the mandarin, I just know in recent comics, especially the extremis line he looks like jackie estacado from the darkness. When Ben Kingsley got the part, everyone bitched about it before seeing the movie.

I think it was a great utilization of characters not many people know of for the film, iron monger and mr.stain were a great twist to add. I just watched the newest iron man anime and thought that was a great use of characters and names. And the Iron Man movie, I avoided all spoilers to figure out who was who and I thoroughly enjoyed the twist.

When I looked up who alderich was I understand the disappointment of the fans since he is not the same character as the Mandarin.

Other things a lot of people bitched about, the comedy, the blah blah blah, bitching just to bitch. But I bet you they will watch this movie again over other movies if it's on tv, and I bet they'll buy the merchandise, read ironman comics and complain how much they hate greg land, etc, etc, etc.

It seems all people tend to do these days is bitch about stuff. I am glad Iron Man 3 was a departure from the old boring ironman is fighting ironman mantra the first two films suffered from. And I appreciated that very much, because Iron Man 2 for me was a let down, but I still love Iron Man, and the concept.

It's a normal dude, whos smart, a playboy, and plays superhero in his spare time. It's not like it's captain militant iron dude

If you don't really know the Iron Man character it seems weird you blame Iron Man fans for bitching.

#63 Posted by Azura_Thena (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: Yes and no. Yes in a sense that everything Aldrich Killian had done was in the name of "Mandarin", but there was no actual entity named "The Mandarin" in the movie. That's what I referred to.

Aldrich admits to being the Mandarin in the film, not to doing things in the name of the Mandarin.

#64 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio


#65 Edited by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: Yes I know, he said "Mandarin, its all me." I'm aware of that, but the implication is more than just him, but also his company AIM. Its kinda loosely based on what Mandarin Incorporated is to the Ultimates Universe. Semantics really despite what any dragon tattoos were on him. In the end it still was a silly plot device which, in my opinion, served really no purpose. I mean just look at the "Ten Rings"...teased to us ever since the first Iron Man movie and could very well have been a tie-in to Avengers 2 and all that but ended up in this movie being nothing more than a front to Killian's agenda by being masked as a multicellular terrorist entity and making Trevor Slattery into a latter day Usama bin-Laden. In other words, yeah I know what you mean. Killian is Mandarin and head of AIM sure, still didn't like the decision but it was a twist, what can we say?

#66 Posted by feargalr (1163 posts) - - Show Bio

There wasn't an option for this so I didn't vote but I just kinda thought that role was wasted on Ben Kingsley. I don't really care about the mandarin from the comics but I do love a great villain, and Iron Man 3 had me thinking there was this great villain and then there was just Guy Pierce doing Guy Pierce things. What they did was funny, I just thought they could have done more.

#67 Posted by stambo42 (159 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it hard to imagine a way to pull off an "authentic" Mandarin that would not come off as racist and uncomfortable to everyone except the blindest of fans.

Instead they did something better than give us a classic villain. The made a Hollywood popcorn movie that openly acknowledges the nature of the relationship between the Media and "Terror", as well as the Military Industrial Complex.... even if it was done through hyper extension and gross simplification. Well played.

To enjoy any art you have to approach it for what it is, not what you want it to be.

#68 Posted by r0b1van (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Awsome movie!!! the plot twist at first made me mad but I got over it and continue enjoying the movie.

#69 Posted by CptPanda29 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@azura_thena: You managed to go back a step in Killian's plan.

"Mandarin" is the scapegoat, a totally disposable nobody he controls completely. That's literally the definition of a scapegoat. The "Mandarin" is NOTHING in IM3

It's Killian's plan, his name is Killian - he called himself mandarin once to rub it into Stark because he thinks he's won.

#70 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs: you make a better iron man 3 movie smart guy. what? you can't even put together stark's left iron man boot? no? well then be quiet or stop being a dick.

#71 Posted by MrMazz (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved the twist. It's yet another example of Shane Black making a great commentary on big block buster cinema and how it can never have any sort of emotional resonance when you end every film with "Tony Start , or whomever, will return". There can never be emotional closure because there will always be another bad guy. Or in this case another movie.

Take the Barrel of Monkeys sequence. On it's own technically I rather enjoyed it. But everything about it from a production to a story context is inherintly false. Tony is never in the suit, he is never in real danger, he dose not go into PTSD over it because he is not there.

#72 Edited by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

I really enjoyed Iron Man 3. It was exactly what I wanted for a superhero movie: a fun blockbuster.

There was great action, great characters, a decent story and an all around fun atmosphere.

I completely understand why people would be upset with the Mandarin, I think I feel similar about the changes made to the Amazing Spiderman Peter Parker.

HOWEVER, I will say that one thing should not ruin the entire movie.

Yes the Mandarin was a quirky, drug addicted actor, but did you forget the cool actions scenes like the house destruction and airplane?

Did you forget how Tony got over his PTSD and learned to complete himselt?

This is a really fun movie, and while there are some issues to it, I believe that is more good than bad. Don't let one bad thing affect the rest.

P.S Am I the only one that really likes the new armor?

#73 Posted by Assman (1840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrfuzzynutz: You mean hypothetically if the Scarecrow was just working for Ra's al Ghul, who in turn was not really immortal but just a title bestowed on whoever happened to be the leader of the League of Assassins, only they were called the League of Shadows?

Or if Two-Face was just created as a foil by the Joker to destroy Batman's will?

Or if Bane was just a pawn in Talia al Ghul's trap to kill Bruce Wayne?


Wasn't he, in the end? I think it worked well for the movie, the twist did throw me for first, thinking for the first few moments, is he really just an actor? and then realized it worked well for the movie by movie's end and didn't really bother me at all, as i thought about it during the course of the movie building up to that moment, how are they going to utilize this Mandarin? and, it actually made perfect sense, with the twist, the whole facade being Killian's to keep the government/world off his back/trail, brilliant, imo.

#75 Posted by fkk1984 (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@frobin: I agree with; IM3 is, at least, nominated for the worst-super-heroes-movie price.

The twist, well... it was subreal. But I accepted it. I bought it, it was funny.

What happened after the twist was the real failure. I was expecting Tony to upgrade Extremis, inject it, and turn into de “ultimate” Iron-man, beating Killian and the Extremis boys. Instead, Pepper got Extremised and beated Killian herself while Tony was playing with his 50 empty suits.

Iron Patriot´s appearance? OMG. Not necessary. Really disgusting.

MARVEL´s movie N°3 karma. Thanks God we still have lots of N°2 movies on schedule.

#76 Posted by BR_Havoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

I completely understand why they changed Mandarin if they kept him a terrorist it could of hurt overseas box office figures and also there would be people saying that of coarse they have an middle eastern person (what he calms to be in his videos) that is a terrorist and that is a negative stereotype.

I mean the change was funny was it what I wanted for the character no but I understand why they did it.

#77 Posted by ALFMutant (151 posts) - - Show Bio

As a DC reader, I don't really follow Marvel so I was hopping to be introduced to the real character through the movie. Kind of disappointed now.

#78 Posted by Gaafar93 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

You call it a plot twist. I call it a rip-off.

#79 Posted by DCWarFan73 (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerdork said:

@k4tzm4n I wished the Mandarin in the movie was the same Mandarin from comics, but I also thought that Ben Kinglsey was so flipping hilarious, that I didnt really even care when it happened.

Mandarin - "I have a substance problem"

Tony - "And they said they would help you get clean?"

Mandarin - "No, they said they'd get me more."


That was a great exchange.... really was classic even if way out of character for the supposed Mandarin.

#80 Posted by sketchman33 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

the mandarin thing is an utter disaster. not to mention the fact that killian was made out to be a huge mastermind wen in cannon storylines, he was nothing more than a pawn.. or bishop at best

#81 Posted by SpitfireINK (242 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok - I have to say I loved it -

Kingsley did a Fantastic job!

When I first heard he was playing the part I groaned and was convinced he would be the nail in the coffin of Iron Man films.

Happy to admit I ate crow on that one. One of Kingsley's best performances - at least since Ghandi.

Wonderful range and did not anticipate the change - that's what made it GREAT!

Killian Aldrich on the other hand .... wasn't bad .... until ...

The whole Extremis "look what I can do" breathing fire bit !

In fact the whole - Melting Man - bit was way too off center and destroyed what could have been the BEST Iron Man movie to-date.

It destroyed the gravity of the film, undermined the plausibility and integrity of the characters, and literally yanked my involvement straight out of the film - as I wanted those sequences to hurry up and be over with!!

The one short sell of the whole movie:

The multiple IRON armors! Everyone that watched the trailer knows secretly that they squealed like a little school girl when they arrived. - and what did we get????

A short flash bang and a Pow - that's it folks all done - Now destroy them!

What an incredibly short-sighted use of sensationalism it was showing the various armors?

There was so much room for growth and further character development with those armors.

The IRON MAN armor is a character on to its own and each iteration was sorely put to rest before they were ever given a chance to blossom!

Iron Man 3 - ok -

Great acting - Good comedy - tons of action -

Terrible storyline - left a mediocre taste in your mouth.

One can only hope the RDJ will be back for the Avengers 2 and redeem this blight of misfortune direction and lack of vision!

#82 Posted by nappystr8 (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

All the people claiming that The Mandarin is too racist or too much of a stereotype to use in this movie are just proving the point that this is not a movie for Iron Man fans. An Iron Man fan would know that while at his creation, Mandarin might have been a completely offensive stereotype, he has not been for a very very long time. Matt Fraction's recent run on Iron Man gives a perfect example for how to handle the character in a modern context. That version of the Mandarin actually started with Warren Ellis, where earlier in Ellis's same run we got the Extremis storyline that was such a huge part of this film.

#83 Posted by ARMIV2 (8520 posts) - - Show Bio

For whatever reason, this drastic change didn't make me hate the movie or anything at all. I still don't know why, but I think it is because the change was just so freakin' out there that my brain has no idea how to handle it, so it just settled on "Oh, wow! That was something else!".

#84 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

i wouldn't have minded it if they had not built up Ben Kingsley's character so much in the trailers....and to those calling out others for bitching... get off your high horse!!! everyone is free to like or dislike a film and if its not a big deal since it just a film then how about practicing what u preach and refrain from posting ****** about those who didn't like the film.

#85 Edited by Ama_Sama (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I don't really get way people have such an issue with the twist. No comic movie is the same as the comic, so I don't get why people would expect this to be any different.

This is the movieserse not 616 so it shouldn't be the same considering no other earths in comics are the same as the main universe.

I couldn't agree more. It's the movieverse. Things will be different. With the exception of maybe X-Men Origins or Elektra, Marvel's done a good job so far, I think. People should enjoy the fact that they're even making comics into movies and roll with it. The changes so far haven't been world-shattering as far as the bones that make up the main heroes goes. This is all why I actually enjoyed Nolanverse-Batman.

#86 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything was fine with me the moment the Mk 42 blew to pieces, god i hated that suit.

#87 Edited by .Longshot. (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, as a fan, that kinda pissed me off. If we're going back to when they were first coming up with the plot for Iron Man 3, right at the beginning, I think it would've been better for them to have kept the Mandarin as the actual villain, especially seeing how well they sold a character that seemed impossible to play straight successfully UP UNTIL the twist. That considered, with the angle they took, showing Killian as the major threat, along with all the Extremis soldiers, I think making the Mandarin a real villain would've overcrowded the third act and turned it into Spider-Man 3. So, while I would've preferred to have had the Mandarin played straight all the way through to the end, I'm not overly upset. Given the twist itself, I have to give the filmmakers props that it didn't upset me as much as it should have.

#88 Posted by TheVoiceOfReason (747 posts) - - Show Bio

I did not like it.

#89 Posted by ghostcopy (22 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe that Ben Kingsley did a great job and I enjoyed his performance a lot... but I was not overly happy about the Mandarin being a 'fake'. I still enjoyed the film and had a good night at the movies. The End.

#90 Posted by TheHeat (451 posts) - - Show Bio

Sir Kingsley deserves an Oscar for his performance in IM3.

#91 Edited by Cyborg6971 (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Take out the twist and you still have a mediocre action film.

#92 Posted by bigboi100000 (224 posts) - - Show Bio

Best twist ever.

#93 Edited by bigboi100000 (224 posts) - - Show Bio

I really could not stomach the change to this movie. I was really hoping for the Mandarin to be the main enemy and that he was running Killian's strings, not the other way around. For "Mandarin" to have been merely a drunken, out of work actor to be treated as a terrorist symbol to be feared was just wrong and not a cool twist at all to the real character. Obviously this is coming from one who wanted this movie to have a connection in some day to Avengers 2, but clearly there is none since the Ten Rings aren't even an actual device used in this. It was hilarious for like only a moment seeing what the Mandarin really was, but after that I just had a grave frown on my face the whole time. The twist was what made the movie not that great to me...2.5 out of 5 stars for me. Real disappointment.

Perhaps some Icy Hot to soothe your butthurt, sir?

#94 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

Love, love, love Mandarin, particularly Fraction's take on him. Also, love how they handled him in the film.

#95 Posted by WWAJfan (242 posts) - - Show Bio
#96 Posted by Bokkie (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Loved it, and it's better then the second movie. The first one is still the best though

#97 Posted by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio
#98 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs: you make a better iron man 3 movie smart guy. what? you can't even put together stark's left iron man boot? no? well then be quiet or stop being a dick.

Silence mortal.

#99 Posted by MuyJingo (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no attachment to the character so the twist doesn't affect me....but if they had done this with a villain I do care about, say Bane or Joker then I would have been very upset. It seems unnecessary and it certainly doesn't seem clever. Just reading about the Mandarin now, the modern interpretation seems cool and interesting and not racist in the least...not sure why they couldn't have used that.

My thoughts exactly. When chose Kingsley I was worried that they chose an only slightly noticeably Asian man because they were afraid to use a foreign terrorist and possibly look racist (which, shame on me for forgetting that the first movie was all about foreign terrorists while I was thinking that), but instead the movie laughed at Americans for expecting terrorists do be foreign. That was brilliant.

Really? It's racist to expect terrorists to be foreign? What world are you living in?

#100 Edited by bloggerboy (574 posts) - - Show Bio

Tell me I'm imagining this but there seems to be some sort of copying going on. First we have The Avengers and the Black Widow dressed in black wanting to clean her record because it's too red and her character arc is about if she can redeem herself from so much killing.

Then we have The Dark Knight Rises where Catwoman seeks a way out and wants a clean slate. Also dressed in black.

Then we have Bane who is a real menace and a powerful figure with his plans. A force to be reckoned with but turns out he was working for/with Talia al Ghul. And this twist I honestly liked even though I can see why it upsetted people.

And now Iron Man 3's twist turns out to be awfully similar.

Also Man of Steel is a reboot with a mindset that no previous Superman movies exist. Yet we have a charismatic and well known actor playing Jor-El wearing the S on his chest. Superman's origin gets retold with heavy emphasis (so far) with Donner-ish monologues about Superman being the light/messiah. He's fighting Zod along with a couple of other kryptonians just like in Donner's Superman.

I mean it's okay to use Zod and redo the origin but it just looks so similar. They could have done Superman: For Tomorrow or New Krypton but it looks like they're redoing Donner's Superman and Superman 2.