Comic Book Question of the Week: Iron Man 3's Twist

Even though the title clearly implies there's spoilers, I feel obligated to remind you that yes, there's huge spoilers here. So, if you've accidentally stumbled into this thread and you haven't seen Iron Man 3, you may want to back out.

Iron Man 3 has a critical moment that has driven a huge wedge between fans. We've been teased about the Mandarin since the first film, and now he's finally appeared -- except it's nothing like what you were expecting.You see, "the Mandarin" we're introduced to is merely an actor to draw attention from the true "Mandarin" -- Aldrich Killian. While some of us thought the twist was a brilliantly executed gut-buster, others thought it absolutely destroyed the film. We want to know how the Comic Vine community felt about the unexpected move and you can click here to vote.

Voting will remain open until Thursday morning (ET). Be sure to check back then because a feature with the poll results will hit the homepage shortly after! This is clearly a heated issue, so please remember to show respect while chatting about it. I know that's a tough thing to ask, but let's prove the Comic Vine community can say more than "lolz it sucked" or "wut ure dumb it wuz awesome." Once again, you need to vote here. Comments in this feature will not be counted. Thanks!

I really could not stomach the change to this movie. I was really hoping for the Mandarin to be the main enemy and that he was running Killian's strings, not the other way around. For "Mandarin" to have been merely a drunken, out of work actor to be treated as a terrorist symbol to be feared was just wrong and not a cool twist at all to the real character. Obviously this is coming from one who wanted this movie to have a connection in some day to Avengers 2, but clearly there is none since the Ten Rings aren't even an actual device used in this. It was hilarious for like only a moment seeing what the Mandarin really was, but after that I just had a grave frown on my face the whole time. The twist was what made the movie not that great to me...2.5 out of 5 stars for me. Real disappointment.

people get so bent out of shape. I actually did not know the origin of the mandarin, I just know in recent comics, especially the extremis line he looks like jackie estacado from the darkness. When Ben Kingsley got the part, everyone bitched about it before seeing the movie.

I think it was a great utilization of characters not many people know of for the film, iron monger and mr.stain were a great twist to add. I just watched the newest iron man anime and thought that was a great use of characters and names. And the Iron Man movie, I avoided all spoilers to figure out who was who and I thoroughly enjoyed the twist.

When I looked up who alderich was I understand the disappointment of the fans since he is not the same character as the Mandarin.

Other things a lot of people bitched about, the comedy, the blah blah blah, bitching just to bitch. But I bet you they will watch this movie again over other movies if it's on tv, and I bet they'll buy the merchandise, read ironman comics and complain how much they hate greg land, etc, etc, etc.

It seems all people tend to do these days is bitch about stuff. I am glad Iron Man 3 was a departure from the old boring ironman is fighting ironman mantra the first two films suffered from. And I appreciated that very much, because Iron Man 2 for me was a let down, but I still love Iron Man, and the concept.

It's a normal dude, whos smart, a playboy, and plays superhero in his spare time. It's not like it's captain militant iron dude

I have many problems with the movie, but the Mandarin part didn't bother me, then again, I don't really have any attachments to the character.

Absolutely awful and terrible.

One of those, "Oh, it's clever isn't it? Unless you don't get it." No, I get it. I see what they did, I understand why and it was still a cataclysmic joke. The Mandarin was perfectly nailed and Kingsley, a fine actor, gave him the most menacing persona. Then they stripped us of him. I was thinking, "Thank goodness for Kingsley! If it wasn't for him this would suck, because Pearce's Killian is just awf...oh. Oh."

Even if I never had attachment, I'd be bothered just out of respect for those who do. If you have no attachment to Daredevil, that's fine. I do. So, if they cast Jack Black, I'd expect people to think, "Wow, that's shitty for the people who support the character."

What really lets me know how much of a con this movie was? Whenever I see, hear or READ advertisement for it, I feel outright lied to. I don't feel like, "Ohh, snap.", like with The Cabin in the Woods. It wasn't a clever twist that makes you see things differently, like Fight Club.

It's an outright lie. Flat out.

Sorry Can't type still vomiting

Loved the Tony Stark portrayal. Loved the effects. Loved who he mentioned the Avengers. Loved a lot of things about the movie.

But... The plot was not a good idea.

Too much time without the suit. He waited until the end to launch the suits?!? WHY? The Mandarian portrayal was weak. The Extrimis plot was weak. The ending with Pepper was pretty lame. There is a whole thread dedicated to comic book movies here: http://marveldcforum.com/index.php?board=3.0

@the_mast: The Mandarin was not supposed to be menacing; he was cliched and over the top, and that was exactly the point. He was a parody of ridiculously larger than life villains that have no place in reality. It was like Marvel was taking a direct shot at Bane and The Dark Knight Rises and nailed it. Personally I thought it was pretty clever and did enjoy the movie, though yes I do understand why the change to the character could be viewed as offensive from a diehard fan's perspective.

For those who don't have a major issue with the "twist" I offer this point of few. The Mandarian is among Iron Man's biggest villains, you can argue his greatest.

That being said, who you use the same treatment for any of Batman's rivals? Not even suggesting the Joker, but the Riddler is only a creation of Rupert Thorn?

Of The Kingpin is just a make believe character created by Ben Urich?

It comes across as cheesy and not giving proper respect to the material. Hollywood magic at its best.

Overall a fun movie, but damn did they let the wind out of my sails with that one.

He waited until the end to launch the suits?!? WHY?

The rubble was blocking the exit. Jarvis had to inform him when it was finally cleared.

Hated it for about a minute then loved it forever after.

That twist broke the movie for me...up till that point i was enjoying it but that scene left a bitter taste that i couldnt get over for the rest of the movie....the ending visuals were good with the army of armors and all but i was still sad about that twist....they really shldnt have built the mandarin up so much in the trailers, and ben kingsley is awesome, why'd they do that??!!

@mrfuzzynutz: You mean hypothetically if the Scarecrow was just working for Ra's al Ghul, who in turn was not really immortal but just a title bestowed on whoever happened to be the leader of the League of Assassins, only they were called the League of Shadows?

Or if Two-Face was just created as a foil by the Joker to destroy Batman's will?

Or if Bane was just a pawn in Talia al Ghul's trap to kill Bruce Wayne?

Hmmm...

I don't really get way people have such an issue with the twist. No comic movie is the same as the comic, so I don't get why people would expect this to be any different.

This is the movieserse not 616 so it shouldn't be the same considering no other earths in comics are the same as the main universe.

I thought it was a great play. At first I was a little upset but then I remembered that the Avenger movies are loosely based on the Ultimate Universe. In the Ultimate Universe the Mandarin is corporation rather then a single person.

The Mandarin twist was awful and anybody who liked it or thought it was clever needs a slap! Even if Ben Kingsley was The Mandarin it still would have sucked and brought back those old movie nightmares where White men had face paint on to look like an ethnic minority.

What should have happened:

Cast Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa and gave him a wig.

Used a Mandarin plot from the source material.

?

PROFIT!

P.S. The Pakistani terrorist propaganda along with the burka scene shouldn't even had been contemplated.

P.S.S. WHY NO POWER RINGS!?

Mandarin is and always has been a stupid character, people mad about him not being a magical Chinese villain need to get over it.

As a huge Iron Man fan, I was perfectly fine with it. From the start, he was never "really" the Mandarin. He wasn't going to be sporting the alien ring weapons. There wasn't going to be any connection to his comic book origins. Given that, it actually works pretty well. Ben Kingsley was never playing the Mandarin, so, no big deal. The film still ended with Robert Downey, Jr in a punch up with a villain. One that even called himself "The Mandarin". I certainly understand the disappointment for those members of the audience who were particularly invested in seeing the Mandarin on the silver screen. It was known well in advance, though, that they weren't going to get that. Anymore than they got the "real" Whiplash in the second film.

I've been reading Iron Man for 30 years, and have never considered the Mandarin of being even remotely interesting. I loved what they did in the movie. Plus, they can easily have a real Mandarin come forward if they wanted too and reveal that he had just been playing everyone all along.

Loved it - the movie was fun, having AIM involved was great, and it was nice to see Tony dealing with the events of the Avengers in a way I was not expecting.

besides it's only a movie.

In the big picture aspect, this film will go down as the last Iron Man film(2)--forgettable. With that said, the whole Mandarin plot twist seems to be the main gripe as a whole from not just myself, but most comic book fans in general. Look, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it, and that's okay. You have to look at how much money this film has made overall. The numbers are out of sight and this means good things for all at Marvel Studios. So the Mandarin didn't whip Tony with his magic rings. I am not happy about how the villain was buried in the story, but again, there's nothing that can be done now.

My main concern are the people that saw the film and had NO CLUE who the Mandarin is, or was, or whatever. Of course they're not going to have a problem with it. That's the problem with more and more "comic book movies". People--kids 7-12 especially--aren't reading the source material because reading isn't fun to this new generation. So the more films they make, the more they can just b.s. a major player in a comic book series. Iron Man 3 is a film I suggest to any comic readers. Give Marvel your money. I didn't despise the film, but it definitely did not exceed my low expectations going in.

it's has people talking about the film and that's good for Marvel and Disney.

right there!!! does anyone actually care about the mandarin? is there an army of mandarin fans out there? possibly calling for more storm comics (jk storm fans)

What's weird is Ten rings was in the first movie no?

@om1kron And why is it any time someone dislikes something about a movie, they are bitching for the sake of bitching? Maybe they flat out didn't like it, that's not out of line, people like different things.And yes some of the jokes were a little out of place..."my GF just fell to her death, better make a joke immediately after." He seemed more upset when Coulson died...he went off and sulked for like 20 minutes.

Some people are fine with stuff like, this some aren't.

As for the Mandarin, I didn't really care because I don't care about him, but if they changed green Goblin's character to something like that, then yeah I'd be bothered by that as well.

I need an option that says: "It bothered me at first but now I can live with it." so I can vote.

I get why people are upset and all but I'm not an Iron Man fan, I've never been one, in fact, apart from Extremis and The Five Nightmares (none of those have the Mandarin in it) I've read almost nothing of the golden avenger. That being said, I belive this was a really good plot twist for the movie, I mean, yeah, of course they could have introduced the power rings, but power rings (even if Iron Man lives in a universe where gods live) need a backstory and the movie just didn't have the time to introduce both Extremis and Mandarin's power rings (and we could argue what was the point in raping the Mandarin like that if they could have use anyone, but that's another story).

I understand you guys, I know why you're pissed, I've been there myself a thousand times before, but for me this works, and in fact was one of the greatest things in the movie.

@dcwarfan73 said:

And since when does an army of Iron Man suits have trouble dealing with some rubble? (Playing devil's advocate just a tad). They have more than enough collective firepower (or should anyway) to plow their way through even many tons of "rubble". I feel the suits were underpowered just a tad.

I was kinda angry because Mandarin is the only villain in Iron Man stories that i give a damn about but still that twist surprised me and that was good (in a way). Well i have seen most Marvel movies and most of them do not follow the comics so i won't fret or complain too much about it.

@jamesisaacs: YES! i was thinking ken watanabe but cary would have been amazing as the mandarin. he is menacing, intelligent, knows martial arts great great casting. too bad marvel couldnt be that smart

None of the poll options really fit for me; my choice would be be something between hate it and didn't care as it bothers me a little but it's not a deal breaker. I've never read anything with The Mandarin and to be honest he's always come off as pretty cheesy but, Kingsley's portrayal seemed like a much better villain than Killian turned out to be and I think they made a mistake when they threw him away.

Also, as a huge Bane fan I know the pain of having a beloved villain destroyed by a movie (Batman and Robin), so I feel bad for the Mandarin fans out there.

as a fan of the mandarin i refuse to see this shame of a movie. another movie keeping the asian man down, whatevers. and oh wow they stole from batman begins how ORIGINAL. what's the whole point of having this "fake" mandarin if you're just going to reveal yourself anyways. you could have just stayed in the shadows until you are ready to show yourself instead of doing this "hey everyone look over there"

You basically ruin it by saying the massive twist and having a picture of the Mandarin as the thumbnail. He is by far the best and funniest character in the film, but I do wish they hadn't gone that route.

To be honest I saw the twist coming. The Mandarin in the film would have been the best villain in the trilogy because of the movie's concept and Ben Kingsley who did a remarkable job prior to the reveal (and even after).

No. Knowing there's a twist with the Mandarin doesn't ruin what it is at all. It's not like someone hears there's a twist with a villain and immediately thinks, "Oh, he's clearly an actor being used by the true villain!"

I'm not going to vote for this one. I hated what they did to (IMO) Iron Man's greatest villain but at the same time I found the way they executed it hilarious.

The change didn't bother me too much, but I could see how it would really bother some Iron Man fans. I have not read too much Iron Man. (Most of the knowledge about the character comes from stuff I read from various mini's and various Avengers titles.) But from a distance the two main villains that he has are the Mandarin and himself. If after years of reading Iron Man, I saw the commercials for IM3 with the way Ben Kingsley looks, and that shot in the trailer of his gaudy rings Clinking together I would probably be pissed about the movie. This is because all those people really want is a 15-20 minute fight scene between Iron Man and a guy with 10 magical rings. In fact, that is probably what they should have done for the post credit scene, because the real post credit scene was kind of a waste of time. (Mostly because I believe that the post credit scenes should be used for teasing the next movie and that is clearly was not the case this time.)

They should have probably picked a different villain. I would have probably used it to introduced Pym, maybe he builds a robot...Iron Man has to stop it. I don't know. It was fine though how it is...

Haha It blew my mind. I mean the whole promotion for this is with Sir F*cking Ben Kingsley and then it turned out he wasnt the real deal haha. What I really loved about it was the reaction of the audience. Instantly I knew all fanboys here will hate it. I have to give them credit for this. I mean they obviously knew everyone will hate it and stuff but yet no one expected it, and even the fanboys will be surprised.

Except all of those characters, while having their origins changed and tied in to other characters were handled with respect, and dangerous in their own right. Nothing was fundamentally changed about the core of any of those characters.

I was very worried about how the Mandarin would be portrayed. Considering that the Mandarin is an outdated and racist caricature, I felt there was no way to have the Mandarin without controversy. I mean look at the casting: when Kingsley was announced people were like "that's racist, he's not asian!" but even if they cast an Asian actor, people would still have been like "that's racist because he's asian!" Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I think it was a brilliant move for Shane Black to create such a self-aware character. It was supposed to be caricature that fed on American racism and terrorist paranoia. I think the thing that got me was when Killian yells, "I am the Mandarin!" at the very end. I thought that was a little over the top, but again it did not ruin the movie for me.

Iron Man 3 is hands down the best of the trilogy. Iron Man was bogged with origin story syndrome and Iron Man 2 was a 2 hour commercial for the Avengers. Iron Man 3 was funny, had the best action scenes, and had a story that had me on the edge of my seat many times.

You know, Killian is the Mandarin, he admitted to being so. For the Iron Man films and in a post 9/11 world the way they did it makes perfect sense. The setting Iron Man was set up in in the films wasn't right for the comic Mandarin so they did a new twist on it. If they had set it up differently back in the first movie then they could have done it like the comics but they didn't, so they went with the twist.

I heard Killian call himself the Mandarin but that doesn't make him the same character as the classic villain I enjoy reading. I disagree that they couldn't do the Mandarin properly, nothing about the first movie made it impossible to portray Mandarin in a similar way to how he is in the source material.

My thoughts exactly. When chose Kingsley I was worried that they chose an only slightly noticeably Asian man because they were afraid to use a foreign terrorist and possibly look racist (which, shame on me for forgetting that the first movie was all about foreign terrorists while I was thinking that), but instead the movie laughed at Americans for expecting terrorists do be foreign. That was brilliant.

this is a stupid topic to talk about because after every good comic movie that fells like a movie and not a comic brought to life on the big screen this topic always pops up so people need to stop giving these articles names and just call them for what they really are which is comic fan boys / girls bitching about the movie vs movie goers that dont care about the comics thats what it is and thats what its going to be for every comic / star teck / star wars / manga / cartoon and or anime movie to come

o and i liked the twist just for the shear fact that the movie made aim and their leader look like a real threat to iron man so i had no problem with them throwing a character that was already in the FIRST MOVIE under the bus to do so

I admit, at first I was very angry about the Mandarin being what he ended up being. Especially since the ten rings had been teased since the first movie. It definitely halted a large part of my enjoyment for the movie.

I said this in a post a few days ago that my main thing that seemed to hurt the film the most for me is that Tony should always keep the chest piece. People say he's evolving, but then he isn't Iron Man anymore. He's just Tony Stark. That's nice and all, but when The Avengers sequel comes out, I don't want Tony on the sidelines making quips. I want him in the fray.

What's more annoying than people being upset about the movie is people being upset about the people being upset. That's just a useless position to have and serves no purpose when people are discussing whether or not they liked a movie. If you can't get used to that, well, have fun with the internet. What those people seem to misunderstand, as I saw someone post about tweaks made in certain stories like Bane being used by Talia, is that the reason that didn't insult people was because THOSE CHARACTERS STILL EXISTED. There essentially was no Mandarin. The villain we got ended being a guy who bided his time over being ignored at a party thirteen years earlier. That's not sinister, that's just sad. Iron Man villains suck. I honestly only like one enemy he's ever had (Ghost was always cool to me for some reason) so I was never really excited for the Mandarin. Iron Man is best served when he's part of the Avengers. It's just that the first film set such a high standard, then we got the garbage that was the sequel, so expectations were awfully high for this third one to sort of go out on a big bang. Largely it was met, but the people who do enjoy the character and have for years before he was ever in a movie feel a little cheated. Some because his greatest enemy went from a super villain to russel brand in a matter of minutes. Others might for my reason, feel that they like the idea of the hero who can still do good stay the hero. Again, it's not like TDKR with Batman riding off into the Italian sunset. At least that's how I feel.

For me, but also in a more generally and reasonable perspectiv, Iron Man 3 is the worst superhero movie and one of the most annoying comic book adaptationssince ... well, since 60s Batman TV show, I guess. Yeah, I know ... this show is very popular and many love it: retrospective. But it made a joke of the character and the superhero genre, it was satire ... and besides that's the reason the 1989 Batman movie bei Tim Burton and even more the Chris Nolan trilogy has been such a success: Because it portrayed the character much more in the spirit of the comic book and took itself and the character more seriously.

IRON MAN goes MICKEY MOUSE!

In the first Iron Man movie and even more in the Avengers movie we've seen how funny AND cool Tony Stark / Iron Man can be as a movie character. BUT with Iron Man 3 we've seen just a senseless plot, in fact no real story to tell. The movie turns the character into Disney kids comedy, the fun is mainly childish irony (not the cool sarcasm of the Tony Stark seen in the Avengers movie) . Funny moments, but just for cheap laughter.

Disappointing and annoying for comic book readers, but even meaningless for movie goers. But (of course) amazing MARKETING - since (after seeing the trailers) I really was looking forward to another great Marvel movie.

The MANDARIN TWIST and EXTREMIS

I admit that the Mandarin twist made me laugh ... but just for a moment and for what? Even before the twist I considered the Mandarin not very well portrayed (with the exception of his personal look ... his terror organisation was way to much islamic fundamentalist designed). It wouldn't be a problem to portray the Mandarin without the stereotypes of the comic book characters ... just as a Chinese genius, not a terrorist, more a behind the scenes super crime godfather ... or Tony Stark's Chinese counterpart, but with much more ambitions to take over control. But then the Mandarin is a joke and Aldrich Killian is the Mandarin. Besides: Can anybody explain the plot? Why Killian wants to kill the president ... and of course, his issues with Tony are all about a girl and humiliation. A boy's fight (again). So cheap!

And Extremis ... it has NOTHING to do with the Extremis of the comic book. However, wouldn't be a problem ... if it would make sense at all ... in the movie. But it doesn't ... Extremis is the next step of human evolution? It genetically converts humans into some sort of dragons or human torches? Spitting fire and these cheap CGI of glowing heat beneath the skin ... come on ... that's the next level of human evolution. WHAT's about a plot that makes SENSE?!

Failed adaptation for the movie

Besides the movie is totally senseless even for movie goers who doesn't read the comic book. Most of all this movie is really annoying IF YOU ARE A FANBOY! Do you know why GAME OF THRONES or The Walking Dead are such a big success? Because (so far) both shows did pretty well in adapting the books and comics into TV. The Walking Dead showed that you can - and even should - make adaptations to comic book characters.

BUT imagine you read Game of Thrones ... you know the Kingslayer ... but then in the TV show it would be someone completely different than Jaime Lannister. But called Kingslayer ... just for the fans to have some recognition value. And then you have The Wall ... but it's something completely different than the wall in the books. Wouldn't fans be annoyed ... feel a bit played for a sucker?

Why calling something Extremis in the movie that have nothing in common with Extremis? Such a waste. Why using a great villain's name just to make a joke out of the character. As I said before ... Iron Man can be FUNNY and COOL as seen in Avengers. Adaptation means NOT using keywords for stupid fanboys to please them ... it means changing some things for the better to fit the medium or the times or the target group or whatever, BUT saving the spirit and the core of the character ... maybe changing the plot, but telling the same story. That didn't happen here.

And what's about the boy sidekick ... a little bit Disney family entertainment? Meaningless action without a plot, cheap laughter and cheap CGI, childish irony and a movie which doesn't know what it wants to be: a satire of Iron Man, a joke ... or a movie taking the character seriously (which doesn't exclude fun and irony).

EPIC FAIL! Such a downfall. Iron Man goes 60s Batman!

If that's what Disney is doing to Marvel ... the dark side took over! :(

@frobin: Hey! 60s Batman is awesome!

@redheadedatrocitus said:

The Mandarin was the main enemy.