#1 Posted by LifeShaver (104 posts) - - Show Bio

People consider Cell's statement hyperbole, write down what you think, here are my thoughts:

The two arguments for Cell not being a Solar system buster are:

1.He didn't show it

2. He was lying.

Now here is my arguing for Cell being a Solar System buster:

1. Frieza in his first for blew up planet Vegeta,a planet with 10 times earth's normal gravity,with 1 finger. Frieza in his last form is mutliple times stronger and Cell is even stronger than Frieza,using ABC logic (which is a reliable way to decide the DBZ characters power due to ki determining everything in every fight and ki being the same for everyone) he should be able to pull it off.

2. Him lying would be pointless,he had outclassed all the Z-Fighters, he crushed Gohan's confidence and all the Z-fighters felt helpless,bluffing at that point would be meaningless.

3. Cell loves to brag,if there is one thing you get from his character it is that he loves to show off how strong he is so him saying he can blow up a solar system is not too crazy.

4. Z-Fighters can sense how much energy they have and how much it can destroy some examples are when Kid buu was blowing up earth or when Vegeta was gonna blow up the earth,hence Goku didn't move away and knowing him he wouldn't risk his life on a triple Kaioken so that isn't hyperbole either.

5. Cell is a super computer,he knows how big the solar system is and would know how big of an explosion would be required to whipe it out.

6. It might be possible he was gonna blow up the sun,but he said the ENTIRE solar system so he was most likely going to blast it all away at once. + he was aiming at Gohan so that is the only theory left.

7.The reason he didn't show that he could destroy the solar system is,if he had succeeded then everyone would be dead so that argument is pointless. Also Gohan's blast not destroying the solar system after he killed Cell would make stopping Cell from doing it be meaningless.

8. Look at it from a creator's standpoint. Would you be surprised by Cell's power if he said he was gonna blow up the earth? Everyone before him could so you know,it wouldn't really be too surprising and wouldn't tell us about his power, so saying he could blow away the solar system would make him seem more powerful than the villains before him.

Now that I have nerded out,let your opinion be heard,I'm interested :D :D :D

#2 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

After his apparent resurrection into Super Perfect Cell, I believe Kami started calling him "that demon Cell." I'm not sure, but I feel like demons in fiction often loose some sort of control (at which point Cell probably did) and loose at least some reasoning power. That, and villains in Dragon Ball Z have this tendency to overstate themselves or more likely severely underestimate their opponents. So, perhaps Cell wasn't "lying" so to speak, I don't think he knew either (even if he is a supercomputer; do WE even know how much power it takes to destroy the solar system in one go?) so it probably was a scare tactic designed to just dump as much despair as possible. (villain's theory: "Why stop while I'm ahead?")

Cell could certainly destroy each planet one at a time IT to each one, but in ONE Kamehameha? Ehh....not so sure. Not only would it have to have the power, but more importantly it would have to go the distance.

#3 Posted by LifeShaver (104 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing is Cell isn't a demon,he is an android. And the reason villains overestimated themselves was when they couldn't sense the heroes. Frieza,Vegeta and Buu couldn't if you remember when Cell was fighting Gohan before Super Perfect Cell was born, he shat his pants because,well, he knew he was outclassed. Frieza didn't know how strong Goku was. Villains theory ''stop while I'm a head'' is a good argument,however in DBZ villains don't tend to do that. We don't know how much power it took to destroy earth either, but Goku was yelling at Kid Buu telling him that the power is enough to destroy the earth and it did destroy the earth then the Z fighters must have known how much power was nescarry to blow it up.

You put up very good arguments, but I think I have countered most of the arguments you put out, please preceed I would like to know more about your thoughts on this

#4 Posted by BlackWind (5493 posts) - - Show Bio

Toriyama obviously had no idea the massive difference between a planet and a star system.

Cell recently attained that form, he had no idea of its limits. Not to mention he has parts of braggarts like Vegeta and Frieza in him. I don't believe him for one minute and my opinion won't be changing.

#5 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

a super computer that gets butt handed by an angsty teen....

#6 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@LifeShaver: Actually, one of the problems I always had with the statement was just the geometry of it.

a) Kamehameha is a beam.

b) Solar system is a disc.

c) Earth is inside the disc.

So, how are you supposed to destroy a giant disc with a beam that's fired from inside the disc?

Okay, assuming it was meant to explode violently at some point, even with powerscaling, taking out the solar system is a bit crazy. I actually went back and found an old post I made regarding how much energy it would take just to destroy earth and venus with a single explosion

3. In another thread I recently calculated that an explosion starting at earth would need to be around 100 million times more powerful than an earth-buster in order for it to have enough energy to also take out Venus. Even if Vegeta was an actual planet buster at 18,000, that would mean you'd need a PL of 1.8 trillion just to one-shot earth and venus together. Jupiter is much, much further away, and much, much larger. If you're willing to give me a reasonable estimate (emphasis on reasonable) for SP Cell's power level, I wouldn't mind giving a rough estimate for how big a bang he might be able to make, but I really doubt it would pack enough punch to make it to the outer planets. And again, he wasn't making an explosion anyway, he was going to shoot a beam. How's he supposed to hit everything in the solar system with a beam?

So yeah, these kinds of explosions tend to require a lot more power than most people assume. Even with power-scaling, it is a bit of a stretch to get Cell to a PL of 1.8 trillion. Merely doubling the power level of a character should usually be more than enough to result in a curbstomp, but if you do that for Trunks, Android 17, Imperfect Cell, Semi-Perfect Cell, Super Vegeta, Perfect Cell, up to SS2 Gohan, you might end up with only around 20-50 billion or so, meaning you'd need some hugely disproportionate boost somewhere in there just to get Cell to the point he could easily take out Earth and our closest neighbor, let alone the rest of the solar system.

Basically, I just find it a little farfetched, even for Dragonball.

#7 Posted by LifeShaver (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Power Leveling and Power Scaling are two different things Power Levels are unreliable, Powerscaling isn't. Kamehameha might be a beam,but it has exploded many times

#8 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@LifeShaver: I think the main point of my thoughts was that at that time, Cell was going just a tad bit crazy. And if that Kamehameha really was powerful enough to destroy the solar system, I feel like the Earth (and by Earth I DO mean the planet) beneath them would be destroyed in the beam struggle.

#9 Posted by LifeShaver (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668: It was about to destroy the planet,if that beam struggle had gone on (I think Krillin said it) it would have destroyed earth. But then again,if you are going to use that argument (which is fine cause you don't seem to be a comic fanboy) then nobody would have been able to destroy the planet as multiple times in the series ki blasts hit the ground but they never destroy earth, z-characters manipulate ki and the reason that blast didn't destroy earth was because

1. It was concentrated and the explosion was what was going to destroy the solar system

2. If the beamstruggle destroyed earth it would be bye bye Z-fighters.

3. Cell is a (has the cells of) saiyan, he had an ego in which he wanted to beat Gohan so he (Like Vegeta always does) wanted to brag about his power. He didn't seem crazy or anything when he came back,he seemed confident,

You keep using good arguments so if you wish to continue I would love to keep debating with you

#10 Posted by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

No i dont think he can... remember he had people like Vegeta and Freiza in him who constantly said stuff that wasnt true, and was known for bragging.

#11 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@LifeShaver: Haha thanks for the compliment. You're putting up some good points as well.

Kid Buu was able to destroy the Earth with a relatively small Ki blast (which is why Vegeta knocked it off its course with his own Ki blast) so a Kamehameha that size potentially could destroy the Solar System I suppose.... hmm...I may have to come back to this. You win for now....lol

#12 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm you know in Superman #15, it was stated H'el could destroy the entire solar system...

...I'm willing to guess no one would say he could.

#13 Posted by LifeShaver (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunGunW: Well,he could potentially. If he had feats that could hint he could. I mean planet busting in itself is ridicolous but DBZ characters do it so if someone stronger than them appears it wouldn't be to crazy to think that the stronger guy could bust the solar system considering Ki is everything in DBZ Hence why power scaling works. Superman and comic characters on the other hand they work differently,it's harder to say what they can and cannot due because in comics it's not one thing that determines a fight. Example: Flash vs Darkseid: If flash is faster that means Darkseid can't hit him with the omega beam. In DBZ it's like this Goku had more Ki than Frieza therefore he is stronger,faster,more durable etc. In Comics you have to take scenarios into consideration and how different powers would work on the opponent and compare their strenghts and weaknesses. Z is just simplified where if you have less Ki than me,you're screwed as it wouldn't matter what extra powers you have,you're screwed

#14 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunGunW said:

Hmmm you know in Superman #15, it was stated H'el could destroy the entire solar system...

...I'm willing to guess no one would say he could.

Has he done anything that suggests that he can?

#15 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: No.

There was really no need to bump this, though

#16 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunGunW: well people are arguing this topic on places where it should not be argued, it needs to be redirected here.

#17 Posted by generator2000 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

probably, yes

#18 Posted by xXKorvexiusXx707 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

This first argument... Is a joke .-.

1. For this point, you said Cell could bust a solar system simply because he is stronger than Frieza, who destroyed Planet Vegeta with 1% of hes power. Very useless. 100% would be 100 planet vegetas/300 earths, and the sun itself is 1.2 million times bigger than the earth, so being stronger than someone who can take out 300 earths is a non-factor...

2. You said he wouldn't lie simply because he had the enemies outclassed. Cell could have been exaggerating, or not knowing hes own limits. Not only that, but MANY things are said. If everything said in DBZ is true, then Krillin is FTL and Frieza is a universe buster. Lolno, not really.

3. For this you use "he loves to brag" as a point to him not lying. LOL.

4. Z fighters can sense hes power? What are you trying to say here sir..?

5. Cell is not a super computer... Like really... Where did you get this lie from...

6. For this, you didn't even give a real point into proving he could bust a solar system

7. Why wouldn't he want everyone dead? He tried to destroy earth with a kamehameha... So I don't get your point into "he wouldn't do it because everyone would be dead".

8. What is the creators standpoint suppose to prove? Really...

Now that I proved your comment entirely meaningless... You can continue with your life.

#19 Posted by generator2000 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

@freefa11 said:

@LifeShaver: Actually, one of the problems I always had with the statement was just the geometry of it.

a) Kamehameha is a beam.

b) Solar system is a disc.

c) Earth is inside the disc.

So, how are you supposed to destroy a giant disc with a beam that's fired from inside the disc?

Okay, assuming it was meant to explode violently at some point, even with powerscaling, taking out the solar system is a bit crazy. I actually went back and found an old post I made regarding how much energy it would take just to destroy earth and venus with a single explosion

3. In another thread I recently calculated that an explosion starting at earth would need to be around 100 million times more powerful than an earth-buster in order for it to have enough energy to also take out Venus. Even if Vegeta was an actual planet buster at 18,000, that would mean you'd need a PL of 1.8 trillion just to one-shot earth and venus together. Jupiter is much, much further away, and much, much larger. If you're willing to give me a reasonable estimate (emphasis on reasonable) for SP Cell's power level, I wouldn't mind giving a rough estimate for how big a bang he might be able to make, but I really doubt it would pack enough punch to make it to the outer planets. And again, he wasn't making an explosion anyway, he was going to shoot a beam. How's he supposed to hit everything in the solar system with a beam?

So yeah, these kinds of explosions tend to require a lot more power than most people assume. Even with power-scaling, it is a bit of a stretch to get Cell to a PL of 1.8 trillion. Merely doubling the power level of a character should usually be more than enough to result in a curbstomp, but if you do that for Trunks, Android 17, Imperfect Cell, Semi-Perfect Cell, Super Vegeta, Perfect Cell, up to SS2 Gohan, you might end up with only around 20-50 billion or so, meaning you'd need some hugely disproportionate boost somewhere in there just to get Cell to the point he could easily take out Earth and our closest neighbor, let alone the rest of the solar system.

Basically, I just find it a little farfetched, even for Dragonball.

Blow the sun up, you'll get everything.