Can Avengers comics compete with JL comics

Despite the success of live action movie, Avengers comics sales have never beat Justice League comics in terms of sales. For example comics sales Justice League is consistent among top 10 most comics sales yet Avengers is not even in top 20 comics sales. Ermm even X-men comics have better sales than The Avengers comics. Why is this happening ? Discuss

they don't have Batman

Why read a comic when you know that two months later an event will come and make its b!t<h tie-in.

Plus with so many Avengers titles out there. Marvel is dividing its own audience.

@fallschirmjager: They have a Spider-Man.

But JL has DC's biggest selling characters in one book; Marvel's characters are Spider-Man and Wolverine and, to the best of my knowledge, they're not in The Avengers.

Plus, JL has always been more central to the DC universe than The Avengers in Marvel.

I think because j.l has more action and is probably more interesting than avengers......IMO

Cuz only nerds like Avengers.

IMO Justice League sales much better than Avengers because the storyline and character interaction among Justice League is great. That just my opinion

Both things @squalleon said. The Avengers are my favorite group in the MU, dating back 30 years. But I don't read any Avengers titles now because of saturation and event fatigue. Solo titles of favorite Avengers team members are my refuge.

@squalleon: Johns' JL has more regular events/crossovers than Hickman's Avengers, though?

Anyway as others said, there's lots of Avengers titles while there is three JL titles. The main Avengers team even got split into two titles, so readers can chose to read it monthly or bimonthly.

Edit: Also, Johns' JL tends to be very new reader friendly while Hickman's is a long well-connected story.

Not really. The first year of Hickman's Avengers was build up to Infinity like John's and Forever Evil BUT now Hickman is building the next event again(Time runs out). And before that there was AvX, Fear Itself,Siege etc. Now there is Original Sin with AXIS on the horizon. Generally the JL books have less connections to events than Avengers books because Marvel has more events.

John's JL may crossovered with FE but the crossover was done very tastefully and instead of being a tie-in, it was a world-building expansion of the DCU.

@squalleon: JL had Throne of Atlantis, Trinity War, Forever Evil and is now building up to Darkseid War. The current issues are the first time that it's hasn't been connected to an event in a while.

Avengers: Time Runs Out isn't an event. Original Sin didn't have proper "tie-ins", the Avengers "tie-ins" dealt with fallout from an Avengers story a while back and was barely involved with the main event. AXIS is Uncanny Avengers, not Avengers. Infinity was the conclusion of a story Hickman has been building to, so the tie-ins weren't just random crossover but added details to the current event.

I read both, so it's unfair just to declare that one is a money-grabbing crossover monger while the other has only tasteful tie-ins. Hickman's book has never had a tie-in that diverged from the main storyline he's telling yet, same with Johns' (unless you count the villain month one-shots).

Avengers Has too big of a roster now too, I find it hard to care about Starbrand and all these new characters when all I want to see is the core team with a few others. I guess thats why there are so many avenger titles, but none of them have the team i want, just elements of it.

Chill you guys. This is normal discussion. Not a flame war fight :)

The main Avengers comic is boring as hell, that's why.

@boynerdgeek: This is actually pretty calm compared to the usual "discussion" on comicvine :P

I also agree there are way too many Avengers titles.

JL has 3 teams. the main team, the space team and the magic team.

How many avengers do we have? 12? I can't even name them all.

By cutting it back to 3/4 core teams, you would increase sales. Fewer teams would make more people care. It has something to do along the lines of "one death is murder, one hundred is a statistic" type logic, but that's a terrible comparison.

The Jl ToA wasn't an event but a crossover, you didn't get part of the story or an expansion of the main story,you got THE story.You sure that Time Runs Out isn't an event because Marvel sure promotes it as one, I may have to search it more. It was just a teaser, Johns said that about DW. Difference is that John's build up is in between his regular stories not the whole story. Next arc is Amazo virus but like the good masterplaner Johns is, he will throw some pages for building hype like he did in the last issue of JL. AXIS won't have Avengers tie ins? I don't believe that, are the tie ins announced? Especially with the changes that are coming. Original Sin for its majority the tie ins are atrocious, making Marvel continuity only more convoluted than it already is, admittedly I haven't read them and I only now of some.
I never declaired anything money-grabbing where do you read that? Why do you think I am talking only about Hickman's book btw? I am talking about the franchise as a whole.

@squalleon:

• Time runs out is a one-shot (could be an arc, but wording is confusing) for Avengers/New Avengers that shows the future of Hickman's run. It's a crossover at most.
• Hickman had several stories that didn't deal with Infinity, such as the AIM island, Hyperion origin and one-shot stories like that.
• AXIS' tie-ins are mainly Remender titles and random solos of characters that are affected, as far as I know. Hickman is one of those writers whom the editorial typically give an exemption from being forced into stuff (same as Morrison and Azzarello for DC).
• The Avengers tie-in didn't deal with any long established continuity, but dealt with the fallout from a plot point from earlier in Hickman's run.
• Sorry, it's just when pointless tie-ins and event fatigue are mentioned in the same paragraph, people tend to point out Marvel's greed/money grabbing schemes etc. Just instinct I suppose.
• Oh well. Most of Marvel's current lineup is the Avengers franchise as they've decided to tack that name onto anything these days. The whole franchise is so different and varied (and a lot of things wrong) that I'm really sure how you can compare it to the relatively small lineup of JL titles. For example, while Hickman's Avengers tend to have useful tie-ins, Mighty Avengers whole purpose is to be a random tie-in.

• Yeah, I have no idea what it is either some say it is a reboot like the New 52.
• Well thats not my fault though...The OP said the Avengers comics, so that means all and the moment they are under the same family, with the same name, playing by the same rules they are avengers comics. Thats why in my second comment, I said marvel is dividing its own audience.

I think they could is they stopped having so many tie-ins and countdowns to current or future events. with all the events going on there's not a lot of time to develop characters tell a lot of stories that don't set up for a event. thats one of the things that makes the justice league sell better.

Of course they can. Anything could contend with anything. Just gotta have the goods. However, as of now, they do not.

Anyway, more so on-topic than before:

Marvel's series, with the exception of Spiderman, tend to struggle to be consistently on the top 10. On the other hand, Marvel series overall tend to do better than DC. Take what you will from this.

That´s not true, Marvel always has at least 4 titles in the top 10, usually the top 10 changes every month, some months Marvel has 6 and DC has 4, sometimes DC has 6 and Marvel has 4, but Marvel doesn´t struggles to be on the top 10, actually it´s the opposite, DC struggles more, though you are right that Marvel series overall tend to do better than DC.

Yes they are in the top 20, though X-Men always has better sales than Avengers and Justice League.

new avengers is better than ALL justice league books. how's that one doing sales-wise?

@thor_parker82: Yeah, but it's never the same series. They tend to be either #1s or events which rarely last long term high sales wise. Check the past 6 months, the only non-#1 or event in the top 10 seems to be Amazing Spider Man. They don't have consistent selling series like DC does. While DC have Batman, Justice League and seemingly Harley Quinn among some others appearing regularly in the top 10.

What you are saying is true, but that has been happening only the last year. Before putting out the number 1 issues and when there´s not currently an event, they still had 4 to 6 titles in the top 10, and they were consistent titles like Uncanny X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Wolverine, Avengers and sometimes New Avengers.

@thor_parker82: If you check last month comics sales and previous month comics sales, Avengers is not even in top 20. Right now only Amazing Spider-man is the only book in top 10 comics sales. I think due to many relaunch of marvel comics makes people tired and bored. This just my opinion

@i_dont_like_comics: the sales of the book is not even in top 20 comics sales. Maybe because people not interested with the characters and story. This just my theory

I just looked for the sales and you are right, but before these past 2 or 3 months, Avengers was always in the top 20, in fact there were some months it was on the top 10.

Right now only Batman and sometimes Harley Quinn are the only books in top 10 comic sales.

I just find Justice League (Geoff Johns) to be more well written and consistent than any of the Avengers titles, hence why it is still one of my favorite titles out there.

@thor_parker82: ermm I think Justice League is always consistent in top 10. You better check the stats of comics sales. Check it for me because I want to know whether I'm correct or not about this. I ask my comics shop and they even say that JL Comics is always consistent top 10 best selling comics

@jphu8414: you must check out Grant Morrison's pre new 52 JL too. It is great also :)

Of course! Morrison's run was one of the best of ALL TIME

You contradicted yourself. On one hand you say "they" meaning the Avengers have Spider-Man then go on to say he isn't in the Avengers.

@boynerdgeek: You are right, Justice League is consistently in the top 10 sales, but that´s a team book, I thought you were talking about books with just one character, In that case Original Sin has been consistently in the top 10, I know that´s an event, but there´s something people don´t understand, and this is for both Marvel and DC, when they have an event, it usually has a spot in the top 10, and people start complaining that if it wasn´t for that event, they (Marvel or DC) wouldn´t have that spot, but that´s wrong, that spot would be replaced with other title, for example when Infinity was out, it replaced Superior Spider-Man´s spot in the top 10, but as soon as Infinity ended, Superior Spider-Man returned to that spot, another example is that Forever Evil took the spot of Justice League in the top 10, but as soon as it ended, Justice League returned to that spot, my point is that people complain because some of the books that Marvel has in the top 10 are events, what they don´t understand is that if it wasn´t the event, then another Marvel title would take that spot, same with DC.

And like I said, before all this number 1 issues tendency that Marvel has lately, Marvel always had 4 to 6 titles in the top 10, and they were consistent, they were always the same titles, Uncanny X-Men, Ultimate Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Wolverine, Avengers and New Avengers.

@keithcolby1995: if you think logic Batman fans will not buy JL because Geoff Johns clearly doesn't know how to write Batman. Ermm even in Throne of Atlantis Aquaman kick Batman ass and in Forever Evil Lex Luthor beat Batman

:D

@jack_donaghy: @superguy1591 if you think logic Batman fans will not buy JL because Geoff Johns clearly doesn't know how to write Batman. Ermm even in Throne of Atlantis Aquaman kick Batman ass and in Forever Evil Lex Luthor beat Batman

It's funny because Avengers World is just beating Justice league in sales and Avengers was just beating Justice League of America by when that was a thing lol.

@thor_parker82: ermm I think you don't even really understand the topic. The topic is "Despite the success of live action movie, Avengers comics sales have never beat Justice League comics in terms of sales. For example comics sales Justice League is consistent among top 10 most comics sales yet Avengers is not even in top 20 comics sales. Ermm even X-men comics have better sales than The Avengers comics. Why is this happening ? Discuss" We actually talking about a team comics

@teerack: Are you sure Avengers World beat Geoff Johns Justice League comics in terms of sales? I think you might wanna check out last month and month before that comics sales statistics. I'm sure JL comics is higher

@boynerdgeek: Ah yeah I see what you're saying. Around April they started to drop. I guess after Infinity people started to lose interest since Avengers fans aren't really used to Hickman's long term trippy style of story telling. Justice League I think is also a lot cleaner and self contained and easier to follow then Avengers who has a ton of over lap.

I'm confused. Weren't Bendis' New Avengers the top-selling comic for several months running? I could've sworn it regularly beat JLA.

I haven't kept up with the figures, though. Has Avengers really fallen off the monthly Top 20? That's a pretty steep drop, if true. It means that for all the hardcore fans' complaints of Bendis' street-level talking heads, the fans generally prefer their superhero stories to be closer to their own lives and experiences.

@teerack: who do you think is suitable to write Avengers comics and do you think by making Avengers comics team many different team like nowadays is good idea ? Just want to ask your opinion :)

@boynerdgeek: Lol, I do understand what this thread is about, I started with this because @maccyd said that Marvel struggles to be in the top 10, then you said Spider-Man was the only Marvel character in the top 10 and again @maccyd said that the Marvel titles that are in the top 10 are not consistent, and I told you that the things you are saying are not true, that´s why I gave that explanation.

@boynerdgeek: Such Rage... People who like the Character of Batman, will buy it anyways, even if he is written terribly because we want to keep up with his adventures. Plus Batman makes the team awesome.