Can anyone ever beat Dr. Manhattan?

So Dr. Manhattan is omnipotent basically. Is there any chanse of anyone being able to beat him in comics?

Yeah there's plenty. A lot of people on this site think he's over rated on how powerful he is, but I'm not apart of that crowd. I think he is extremely powerful, but there are still plenty of people who could beat him. EX: Spectre, Thanos, etc.

@eyedcyou: THANOS? wh- how can Thanos beat Dr. Manhattan? He was literally disintegrated and was resurrected without a scratch. Last time i checked Thanos has been beat many times.

I personally think an argument could be made for Doc to beat Thanos, but people on this site would probably murder me if I tried. Trust me, I'm with you when I say that Doc is definitely incredibly powerful, and he is downplayed on this site. But Thanos is a Sky-God who has conquered the multiverse. He would probably figure something out.

I honestly don't know how you can beat Dr. Manhattan unless you are also an omnipotent being, and I've tried to have this argument with people on here before, but they tend to push my comments off to the side.

Mr. Mxy

Dr Manhattan is extremly powerfull. He is not omnipotent though.

There's a couple of guys who can beat him : Spectre, MrMxyzpltk. Just to cite some of them.

Thanos certainly can't beat Manhattan, The Mad Titan can't manipulate matter without the IG, so in his basic form he almost can't harm Osterman.

All of the people who can erase Manhattan from existance ( so time Lords & matter manipulators ) can beat him.

Manhattan is really powerfull, and he is underrated on this site. People are willing to kill you here if you say he can beat a matter manipulator. But actually Osterman is extremly powerfull and he had plentybof of feats that put him in the same league with even some of the most powerfull beings in multiverse.

I wouldn't call him omnipotent. He only seems that way in Watchmen because there's nobody to compare him to.

He's extremely powerful, but we haven't really seen any feats against another superhuman.

@kal_smahboi: As above mentioned, he was disintegrated and then instantly resurrected. I call that a superhuman feat

@eyedcyou: yeah i just don't see Thanos beating Doc.

@thecowwasdelirious: I don't know enough about Thanos feats to say that he could either, but based on things I've read on this site I think he'd have a shot. But personally no one below Sky-father level should be able to take him.

@thecowwasdelirious: I didn't say he wasn't superhuman, himself. He's obviously so.

Adult Franklin Richards and Molecule Man off the top of my head. I'm not even going to bother with the whole list cosmic lvl guys i.e. Korvac, Celestials (one could do it) and so on.

I wonder if someone like King Hyperion or Silver Surfer could just de-power him.

@eyedcyou: i mean, from the scarse information you can gather from Watchmen, Doc's powers could be infinite.

There are many people who can defeat him. Captain Atom for one (ironic of course). Then there are people like Spectre, myxz, lucifer, Phantom Stranger, Michael, original beyonder and MM, LT, any of the Endless, etc...

@kal_smahboi: lel i know i'm just kidding.

Ah no, Thanos is not Sky-God level, see Warlock and Infinity Watch 25 for the beating Odin gave him and he never conquered the multiverse, maybe you were thinking of the Chaos King?

I agree, and that is the argument I often use when people tell me Doc is overrated. Sky-Fathers could probably beat him though. They can usually manipulate time and matter (the latter being what Doc can do) and the Sky-Fathers should be more powerful since they are actually omnipotent. A lot of people brush Jon off because of his lack of feats or victories over formidable enemies, but it's not his fault he was only in one book..

@earthsmightiest: Probably should've specified but I was referring to him with the IG. He didn't conquer the multiverse? Thought I had read that somewhere. I'm not super familiar with a lot of Marvel lore so forgive me if I'm wrong.

@thecowwasdelirious: Sorry haha. Long week. Nice avatar, btw.

@earthsmightiest: i'd say that Osterman can beat King Hyperion & Norrin. Manhattan is basicly immortal and actually the only way to kill him would be erasing the accident that made him Manhattan from History. But as we can see in "Before Watchmen" Manhattan actually created alot of universes with his decisions, so maybe erasing just the one accident wouldn't erase Manhattan from another universe...idk, this stuff with DrManhattan is so complicated...

It's cool, Thanos has used the IG and the HOTU to ascend to become the supreme being of 616 twice but he hasn't achieved multiversal domination yet!

Give him time

@eyedcyou: I thought he could manipulate time too? Oh wait he obviously can't because ultimate plot device is ultimate.

@kal_smahboi: FACE THE TYRANT SUN!!! Krypto is rad too man.

@thecowwasdelirious: I can't recall any instances of him actually manipulating time. He can see the future and past, but he himself said that he can't do anything about them. I was kind of trying to speak for all of Vine earlier and that was a bit confusing, so I'll give you my personal opinion. I think only a select group of Sky-Fathers can beat him. He has no weakness that we are aware of, and the only way I can think of that one could beat him is if they were a more powerful matter manipulator.

@earthsmightiest: Thanks for the info! c:

@eyedcyou: Manhattan can't manipulate time that's true, but actually thanks to being able to see the future, he could use it like a better Spider-Sense to avoid hits & stuff.

I agree that Osterman can only use to sky-father lvl characters or much more powerfull matter manipulators.

So, Spectre, Presence, One Above All & MrMxyzpltk are obvious choices. I'm not sure about the Living Tribunal ( how powerfull is he ?! ), Odin, Galactus ( is he a matter manipulator? ).

But, yeah, Osterman is almost unbeatable

Maybe we can get Red Onslaught to pull an inversion on Dr. M, hopefully that would cause him to start wearing pants!

Dr.Manhattan was not disintegrated and resurrected. Dr.Jon Osterman was disintegrated and resurrected as Dr.Manhattan. Although he is extremely powerful he is no omnipotent. It would take a being of insane power to defeat him think along the lines of The One Above All and The Specter.

Dr. Solar, Capt. Atom among a few.

Thanos has a handful of matter manipulation feats, including turning a Skrull to stone and breaking down a pirate into energy in order to make Reptyl a God. His creator, Jim Starlin, has stated Thanos basically has all the powers of the Silver Surfer, to a greater degree.

@kangconquers: yeah, i know, Thanos is powerfull as hell too...but i still think that Manhattan could take him out 8/10

Possible. The problem with Manhattan is there is no frame work in which to compare him. Some consider his powers as putting him beyond Celestials and Galactus. Others consider his powers to be on the Silver Surfer's level. One argument would put him way above Thanos, the other way below.

I just don't think there's really enough data to argue either way. I generally avoid Doctor Manhattan threads for this reason. I simply wanted to correct yet another "Thanos can't do x without y macguffin" assumption.

@kangconquers: what feats put him below Thanos? Manhattan has matter manipulation on a really high lvl, he can rebuild his own body ( so he basicly can't die ), Shape-shift, he is seeying the future & the past like if they were in the present, his desicions create multiple universes ( well, actually theoreticly everyone's desicions create separate universes but Osterman is the only one to see it ).

He is not below Thanos. I really think he is equal or more powerfull than Thanos.

It's true, it's hard to compare Manhattan to any other being as in his universe ( universes ) there's no other superhuman ( maybe metahumans...Ozymandias, bit sure though ).

For some reason, Kronos of Titan strikes me being allot like Dr. Manhattan. Similar origin, both gained power set due to experiment gone wrong vast cosmic power, they even look related.

Doctor Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The sheer amount of characters that could defeat him are outstanding. Here's just a few as an example.

• The One Above All
• Grant Morrison
• Primal Monitor
• The Presence
• Pre-Recton Beyonder
• Pre-Recton Molecule Man
• Elaine Belloc
• Spectre
• Scathan the Approver
• Protégé
• The Source
• Living Tribunal
• Michael Demiurgos
• Lucifer Morningstar
• COIE Anti-Monitor
• Ultimator
• Mr. Mxyzptlk
• Thought Robot
• Mandrakk
• Kyle Rayner Ion
• Hal Jordan Parallax Zero Hour
• Heart of the Universe Thanos
• Infinity Gauntlet Adam Warlock
• The Great Evil Beast
• The Endless
• White Phoenix of the Crown
• Galactus
• Synnar
• Mikaboshi
• Eternity
• Rama Kushna
• Decreator
• Krona
• Sise-Neg
• The Fulcrum
• Mad Jim Jaspers
• HoM Scarlet Witch
• Entropy
• Shuma Gorath
• Lord Chaos
• Master Order
• Mistress Love
• Master Hate
• Tyrant
• Tiamut
• In-Betweener
• Dormammu
• Dark Phoenix
• The Vishanti
• Death
• Captain Britain with Excalibur
• Superman with the Sword of Superman
• The Alien Entity
• Infinity
• Zom
• Demiurgos

The list goes on and on.

Way more than just a couple.

@mysticmedivh: you know what i ment

No, not really. There's a load of characters that could defeat Doctor Manhattan. If you said "There are only a couple of characters that can beat Pre-Recton Beyonder" then that would have made sense.

@mysticmedivh: But yet again, there is no actual limit to Doc's powers presented in the comic.

@kal_smahboi: He is kind of omnipotent

@bgibbs3: if you think that showing of power is "kinda omnipotent", you need to learn more of the skyfather level and above beings because what dr manhattan does is fairly simple on those levels.

@eyedcyou you need to understand that your arguments at this point for dr manhattan are purely assumption and whole lot of people here go with feats. comicviners don't go on theory/assumption. what has dr. manhattan shown aside from destroying a tank, teleporting someone and killing someone ?

@thecowwasdelirious you are committing a no-limits fallacy by using that argument in the battles. there are other beings in comics that have more potential than dr manhattan but many don't use it for debates. many don't go with potential for such arguments because anyone with a vast knowledge on such cosmic beings can easily assume they have no limits. anyone can easily assume galactus is a multiversal being given that he has multiversal counterparts. anyone can easily assume abraxas is a multiversal being considering galactus is needed to stop him. anyone can easily assume odin is multiversal given that his battle shake the universe. the list of assumptions goes on and on especially on such beings that are beyond planetary.

@kyrees: What is one thing that is stated that he can't do?

@kyrees: well he BFR'd 2 crowds.

He has been able to vaporize anything.

He can see the future and past simultaneously.

He created the palace on Mars out of sand instantly.

He was vaporized and reconstructed himself.

He can alter his size.

At the end, he said he might create some humans on his new planet, so he can create life

He can alter his structure so that nothing can touch him.

He can multiply and be in multiple places at once.

How Watchman should have ended.

Dr. Manhattan: "I am disappointed, Veidt. Very disappointed. Restructuring myself after the subtraction of my intrinsic field was the first trick I learned. It didn't kill Osterman... Did you think it would kill me? I've walked across the surface of the sun. I've seen events so tiny and so fast they hardly can be said to have occurred at all. But you... you are a man. And the world's smartest man means no more to me than does its smartest termite."

Ozymandias: *Raises a small device with buttons*

Dr. Manhattan: "What's that? Another ultimate weapon?"

Ozymandias: "Yes...You could say that" *pushes button on device*

*Suddenly, the Bat Signal appears over Antarctica.*

Dr. Manhattan: "Ohh Crap!"

@mysticmedivh: Duder, crazy list. I love that you included Grant Morrison, though.

@eyedcyou: all of which has been done by anyone at herald level (silver surfer level). problem is herald level beings have more higher feats than that.

@bgibbs3 he can't stop all the nukes fired by russia to the usa. he's weak to tachyons

@koshi_waza88: But he does show some pretty powerful feats, and this argument is ultimately pointless (my bad), because no limit to his powers is shown in the book.

@kyrees: True, but Jon doesn't have the luxury of years of appearances to help his case. Yes, a lot of what is involved with him is speculation, BUT in the Watchmen universe, he could do anything, create anything, or be anything. As far as we know, nothing can actually harm him.

@eyedcyou@thecowwasdelirious you two are constraining yourself in the view of the watchmen universe and apply that same invulnerability outside it. it doesn't work that way especially if other universes has shown god killers and paradox breakers.

True, but it doesn't work the other way either. Jon doesn't exist outside of Watchmen, and those characters you named don't exist in Watchmen. There is no real way to compare these characters together. In the Watchmen universe, Jon is unstoppable. In the other universes, characters like The Spectre are unstoppable. Since they don't exist in the same universe though, we can't really compare them. I'm just stating that there is no apparent way to beat Jon, and that his power seems limitless. There is nothing you can say that can prove that wrong, but there is nothing I can say that will prove that he can contend with Sky-Fathers in other universes.

@eyedcyou: except there is a way and that's removing any so called "limitless trait" and define what they have done and what they look. what you are doing is a no-limits fallacy and in the battle forums, NLFs are what we call "assume to infinity without any significant proof and i will defend that assumption with all my pride".

Yeah, no.