Can an omnipotent be defeated ???

For Example : TOAA from marvel vs 10 presence

Will the outcome be a stale mate?? Or can TOAA be killed or defeated??

no man this is like the proverbial unstoppable force meeting an immovable object they surrender to each other none will beat the other. Nigh omnipotents though oh yea they get beaten in comics all the time, last time i check the living tribunal was dead and michael demiurgus as well.

Captain Sisko managed to drop Q with two punches, does that count?

Well if it's in a comic an' that comic is full of PIS, WIS an' CIS, an' the omnipotent character is poorly written an' written as a jobber, an' now I mean more poorly written an' jobberly written than Killer Croc, then yes an omnipotent can be beaten. Without all that PIS, CIS, WIS, poor writin' an' jobber aura, an' morals completely off then an omnipotent can still be beaten, but not as easily.

No. Because then you are not omnipotent.

No its, ands, or buts. The only thing an omnipotent could do when meeting g another omnipotent is share trolling techniques.;

yes by someone with equal power or more power

No. Omnipotents who fight each other should stalemate, or whoever loses isn't omnipotent

Then neither are omnipotent.

No.

there's no "max" power, you can increase it as much as you want since you are omnipotent.

The thing about Marvel and DC, is that their "omnipotent" characters are not really omnipotent. In fact there is only one truly omnipotent character in both universes that I can think of and that is Killer Croc. No one else come close.

There's a problem here. An omnipotent being can do anything. It is infinite in power and authority. If one can kill another, then the other is not omnipotent. If they can't kill each other, then neither are omnipotent as there is something they cannot do. Logically, omnipotence cannot exist.

Depends on your definition of defeated. Words are more powerful than anything else.

What about Dream of the Endless? He was omnipotent and was killed, just another abstract portion of him was born.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: No. There is no "more" power than omnipotent.

Of two forces are true Omnipotents then neither can defieat the other. If so, then the loser is NOT an omnipotent.

It's basic physics, the unstoppable force and the immovable object. They would simply cancel eachother out.

Dream is, by no means, omnipotent. He's near-omnipotent. He feared Lucifer, and did not think that he would survive a battle with him (Lucifer is not omnipotent, either).

If an omnipotent can be defeated, then it isn't really omnipotent.

People on this forums like to throw the word omnipotent around too much for overpowered characters when in reality only a handful of fictional characters are truly omnipotent. In Marvel, the only characters with actual universal omnipotence are abstract entities at Eternity level and above.

Galactus and the Celestials are not omnipotent despite what fanboys like to claim.

@jedixman: So is it the abstract ideas of the Endless that are endless? Death and Destiny's "physical" forms can be destroyed yet Destiny knows everything that will and wont be and can never die as far as I'm concerned. But yes you are right about Dream.

The fact that they will all die is evident of the fact that they are not omnipotent. Conceptually, the Endless are eternal, but even the concepts will end when reality ends.

In regard to Destiny: you are describing omniscience, not omnipotence; it's a different thing. However, he doesn't know everything. Delirium states during a moment of lucidity that not everything is in his book, which Destiny does not refute. When asked if he knew why she stopped being Delight, he is silent. Destiny's life is also finite, and he knows it, because he will die at the end of the universe. So Destiny is neither omnipotent nor omniscience.

Think of it in terms of numbers.

Omnipotence = infinite.

Even if you are 1337 asdfl;jadslfjdk-illion. And you add 10 of them. its still not infinite. You either are, or you are not. You can be stalemated by someone else who is infinite, but you cannot be more infinite. And someone else is more than you, then you weren't infinite.

@fallschirmjager: Not so according to Cantor.

Omnipotence... Defeat? I don't think such a thing would apply to Omnipotence. I mean, any character you find in fiction whose description has omnipotence in it, only goes as far as the writers understanding of the word. It only has to look and sound convincing

@jedixman: I forgot about that part. Thanks Jedi, I'm glad you're here to help! So really the Presence and whatever Marvel's god is, is really the only thing omnipotent?

No problem. I'm a big Sandman fan.

Essentially, yes. Plus Elaine Belloc, who took the place of the Presence.

Let's see

Hulk enters the fight and erases them with thunderclaps

If you lose in any way your not omnipotent.

Only by Mangog.

This.

However, an omnipotent CAN be defeated, he just need to want to be defeated, Beyonder and MM had a relevant conversation:

On Topic: DCEU Doomsday adapts and one-shots

You can never have two omnipotents as they would necessarily be the same being (you can technically never even have one). If you somehow had two non-identical omnipotent beings (which you can't have) then you get another paradox as what happens what they contradict each other's actions? In short the question makes no sense to ask as it can never arise.

no

Doctor Doom beat an omnipotent lol.

OT: DCEU Doomsday could adapt and oneshot and Doctor Doom would steal its power GG

Stupid question, you can't have 10 of the presence. He can duplicate himself but there would only really be one of him, and no, you can't beat an omnipotent.

No

If they want to be defeated, then yes. Otherwise, no.

No.

I know many people will disagree but Yes, it actually can! Let me explain

There are 2 good examples of characters that are above Omnipotence (not including Suggsverse since that verse is complete trash)

-Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)

-SCP-3812 (SCP Foundation)

No matter what power you can think of, it can't beat Omnipotence...Right? Well, there are two powers that actually can:

-Logic Manipulation

-Paradox Manipulation

These two powers are really meant to be joke powers, but they are still strong enough to surpass Omnipotence. Logic states that nothing can surpass Omnipotence, it's simply impossible. However, if you are a logic manipulator, you can change that rule and make something that IS above Omnipotence, whether it makes sense or not. Paradox Manipulation can also change the rule of "Can god create a rock so strong that he can't even lift?" Well Paradox Manipulators can change those rules and state yes, and can also remove the Above Omnipotence Paradox. However, most of the people who possess this power are Omnipotents themselves, so basically, the answer to the question is that the only people who can beat Omnipotents are themselves, since there are very few besides Omnipotents that can use these powers, So how does SCP-3812 and Azathoth fit here? Well, I'll start with SCP-3812

SCP-3812 is one of the strongest fictional characters PERIOD, if not THE strongest. SCP-3812 can instantly become more powerful than anything in existence no matter what anyone says whether it's impossible or not, it instantly climbs the narrative ladder and will always become more powerful than anything. But he can't surpass the writers, right? Actually, he can! He can climb the narrative ladder and enter our world and become more powerful than the writers themselves and can become infinitely above them in every way. TOAA Steps in? SCP-3812 instantly climbs the narrative ladder and becomes infinitely above TOAA in every way and can now kill him/her. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid steps in? SCP-3812 instantly climbs the narrative ladder and becomes far above The Overvoid. MoM, Pre-Retcon Beyonder, Oblivion, Living Tribunal step in? Obliterated as SCP-3812 climbs the narrative ladder and becomes far more powerful than even all of them combined. The Source steps in? The source of all fictional characters? That can instantly obliterate SCP-3812, right? Nope! SCP-3812 will instantly climb the narrative ladder and become infinitely above even The Source. Can SCP-3812 beat itself? Well SCP-3812 can even become more powerful than itself by climbing the narrative ladder! And infinitely so on, There is no end to this paradox. Whether this makes no sense and is not even possible, it doesn't matter with SCP-3812 as it can surpass all Omnipotence paradoxes. If a writer creates someone like SCP-3812 with this power, then they have basically doomed the real world since SCP-3812 can easily destroy our world with ease if he wants to.

Azathoth is the most powerful and terrifying fictional monster to ever exist as it is beyond all existing dimensions, and dimensions that don't exist. Azathoth is the actual creator behind all possible powers, fictional and real beings, etc. Azathoth is simply dreaming all of reality, real and not real into it's being, even this forum right now! Azathoth exists in the center of infinity, and it's realm is unimaginable as it is nothing that will ever exist in our realm. Azathoth sits there, and as he falls asleep, the Omniverse is created into being, all possible dimensions, realms, universes, multiverses, they all exist within the mind of Azathoth. If he ever woke up, all of reality would vanish, and all would be Azathoth again. Even Omnipotent beings are affected by this, as Azathoth created Omnipotence! It's also extremely hard to tell who would win between SCP-3812 and Azathoth as it would be an infinite debate, if SCP-3812 can climb the narrative ladder, is it still apart of Azathoth's dream? or can it still climb the narrative ladder and even surpass Azathoth? There is no way of telling as there would no answer to who wins, not even a stalemate. But since Azathoth is still a fictional being that does not have authority over the writers, while SCP-3812 does, SCP-3812 should be able to beat him quite easily. But if Azathoth was real, however, Azathoth should stomp.

But yeah! Omnipotence can be surpassed in many ways! The real answer to this question is not "no", it's actually "not many". As it is very easy to come up with someone who can beat Omnipotence! So the answer to who is stronger than Omnipotence is only Omnipotents as well as Azathoth and SCP-3812. I hope this answers your question as I looked very in depth to find a truly definitive answer to this question, and I think I finally have!

@manofmanynames2: Shouldn't a being who is truly omnipotent, by definition, already have the abilities of and be immune to logic and paradox manipulation? If they didn't, then they wouldn't really be omnipotent. I really don't like this idea a lot of people have that omnipotence is bound by human logic. Just by its definition it's contradictory and paradoxical. With true omnipotence, you should be able to make a triangle with 7 edges and 10 corners if you want that simultaneously does and doesn't exist

No, why is this even a question?.

If you can be defeated you are not omnipotent. Being omnipotent means you are basically God.

They do, but that's where Logic and Paradox manipulation come in, what you just said is saying that they wouldn't truly be Omnipotent if they were defeated, by definition, Logic Manipulation can change that law and make it so they CAN be defeated, the only other people who can do this besides SCP-3812 and Azathoth are themselves, they can literally break the logic that Omnipotents can't be defeated, and make it so they can.

Once again, that is true, but if you can manipulate logic and paradoxes you can change that law and make it so they can. The only people who can do this are essentially the actual writers, omnipotents themselves, as well as SCP-3812 and Azathoth, like I mentioned in my reply.

@mcflicky Think of it like the image link below. If you don't understand it, basically think of that god character as someone like The Presence or TOAA if that helps you out, the comparison doesn't make it any different. This guy is asking God, who is omnipotent, if he can lift a rock that is so heavy he can't lift, so God does so, but he lifted it anyways, even if it's not possible, The guy says it's an infinite paradox since that would mean he's not Omnipotent, but he broke that law anyways and was still able to lift it. There are several other characters that can do this that are able to kill Omnipotents.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/d/d1/2010-04-19-Page_1.png/revision/latest?cb=20120424073321

Scroll up. OT: Logic and Paradox Manipulators should stomp them, as well as SCP-3812 and Azathoth.

Depends on the verse

And this is where "my infinity is bigger than your infinity" or NLF vs NLF comes in. This can be easily answered if we use Aleph numbers to measure sets of infinity's to each cosmology to determine who can be the winner between omnipotents (since no one is truly omnipotent in the first place).

I heard from somewhere that nobody can ever be truly omnipotent cause an omnipotent cant lose and can kill everyone and anything but that would mean it should be able to kill itself but if its truly omnipotent then it cant lose or die so really there can only be nigh omnipotent people.

I forgot where i heard it but yeah idk.

There is no such thing as true omnipotence in fiction

Tier 0 is the closest to true omnipotence you can get