Calculations/physics vs on panel feats

Do the calculations matter at all? I see it all the time. But people use the on panel feats too. Should both be allowed or should it be strictly on panel feats? Or can both be used like it usually is? I wanna do a cav with goku, but I don't wanna get bashed. What's important? Feats that are seen or the proven math or physics that determine a characters Fire power and strength ? It's used in dc and marvel battles.... What's more important ?

Feats > official data books > writer comments on the character > math and speculation.

the feats and official data books have to be consistent If a feat is not consistent that is what we call PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity).

@black_arrow: what if I show you a manga scan for example and then apply math to it to show how affective it is? Will that count?

It would depend on how you go about the math.

@dagmar_merrill: what do you mean?

Exactly what I said, It depends on which calculations you use. You can interpret scans differently and if you go above and beyond. You aren't doing it right. Get what I am saying?

Fiction isn't necessarily based on the laws of nature, and comic book writers aren't neither physicist nor mathematicians; so they don't have a very good grasp of physics. So, I don't place much faith in raw calculations of comic book events.

@nick_hero22: but based on events seen, can't I place my calculations along what is shown. For example,on battle of gods, goku punched a hole through king kais planet It doesn't work like that.. King kai's planet, assuming radius, how muchever you stretch it, to be around 50m-100m, (I'd say it's 20 m actually), it's density is about 600000-1200000 times that of earth. So punching through it, is, indeed an insane feat. But again, there is the size issue. The mass of the planet comes out to be around 10^13 tonnes, where mass of earth is 10^21 tonnes.. These are extremely rough estimations, though. Now, even if durability is far more related to density, earth's sheer mass far outclasses king kai's planet, so Goku may not be able to replicate the same feat on every planet.. (Yes, I know buu has already punched a ki ball through earth, just saiyan.)

@norrinboltagonprime21: so won't that mean that death battle was completely wrong on ALL there battles. That involved math atleast

You don't know if the Dragon Ball Z Universe adheres to all of the Nature Laws of the Physical Universe, and I sure a humanoid organism flying around at a MACH 10 or 20 is in violation of several of those laws. So, I wouldn't place faith in those calculations because in order for them to be valid they need to mirror our Physical Universe.

Basically, this. They can be useful in some cases but you can't place too much weight in them especially the really complex calculations.

calcs is only needed to weed out hyperbole and inconsistency

@nick_hero22: how do we know if they mirror our universe? people use this stuff in dc. how dot hey know if they mirror our universe

Based on how consistent it is with the Physical Universe.

@strongarm said:

calcs is only needed to weed out hyperbole and inconsistency

Not sure we need math to point out how inconsistent & wildly exaggerated most comic feats are :D (the ones of high-level people at least)

@black_arrow said:

If a feat is not consistent that is what we call PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity).

Funny how much this is ignored (ie: people using extreme feats. Not entirely their fault, since the writing is that way to begin with. Like it was said, these are written by people who both have little science knowledge** & aren't diligently checking with their colleagues to prevent significant inconsistencies).

**But at the same time, attempt to include science in SO MANY aspects of their stories (/worlds they create/how someone’s powers work, etc)…which is why some people need to quit their bitching about applying science/math & thinking that “it’s just a story” is a reasonable counter-point. (Discouraging critical-thinking is despicable in the first place). The writers brought science into this, not us. (end soapbox :D)

@lightsout: Only in terms of crazy claims, like say X said to have world busting strength but in 70% of showings cannot even budge a mountain

this.

Only extremely simple calculations are as valid as feats. Like.. distance was given, time was known, so you calculated the speed. That's okay.

Superman's calculations are also in the feats themselves.

He'll pick up a rock n somebody in the comic will tell you exactly how much it weighs

If your basing it off pixels or something else incredibly BS like that then no it's not a legitimate calc. Now if a one measurement or bit of info is giving the second half can be guess,but that only gives an accurate range for the feat. Some feats some of the math is given to you, in which case these are far more acceptable acceptable. It really depends though, a lot of variables can affect it.

...that seems like you still wouldn't need to calculate anything there. That's just a...let's say, "eye-test" de-bunking. (Narrator says he can do it, but we've never seen him come CLOSE, so we should assume he can't).

(And, my original comment was just poking fun at the fact that comics are rife with hyperbole & inconsistency, often so apparent that you don't need calculations (like your example, no math is needed to know destroying a planet takes much, much more energy than destroying 1 mountain)). Ex: You don't have to know how much the earth weighs to know that when Scott Lobdell had Superman bench the equivalent for 5 straight days was because it "sounds cool" (not because it made sense in any context), and that it instantly makes any other thing Lobdell had Supes do (punch, etc) wildly inconsistent).

@lightsout:

When it comes to general discussion about favorite heroes, sure have fun. But when it comes to battles things are ‘serious business’ when you criss cross characters from different works. When they seem unmatched or ‘hyperbolic’ then it is necessary. When an omni fights an omni, feats are used and/or calced.

Planets? Size and type of planet counts, as in did he nuke a pluto sized one or Jupiter

Weight is needed, sometimes it can show that characters can do ‘more’ than intended. Like batman’s BS peak human calcs when he does things that would outright kill a normal human .

Since nobody likes to be left in the dark.

PIS: plot induced stupidity [SMvFL]

CIS: character induced stupidity [holding back, etc]

Are important

@strongarm: I'm not sure what position you think I'm coming from, lol. I'm extremely pro math/science use. My original quote of you was just to poke fun at comics-themselves for being so full of hyperbole (like Superman benching the earth...especially b/c that was fan-service, not helping the story at all) and inconsistency. And that the inconsistency is to such a degree that even someone who doesn't do the math could see it (per your own example of smashing a planet vs smashing a mountain. Anyone would know that if you've struggled to smash a mountain, there's no way in hell you're capable of smashing a planet - no math needed.

I agree. Also, most writers will do whatever they want to tell the story they want to tell. I think most of the calculations applied to the majority of comic book feats are a waste of time.

True

Bump, however calcs can be useful to quantify the feat as long as statements and the attempted feat matches, but with upscaling, this can go higher.

How do you quantify a feat without some type of calc? I’m not saying it needs to be a ridiculously detailed calc, but you must have a general idea.

I mean people are pretty disingenuous. You can clearly tell what feats don't need to be calculated and what they are intended to be.

For instance let's say this character breathes fire and they destroy like 3 Skyscrappers, but the way it's shown in the manga there's nothing left only some ashes, using vaporization could get the feat up to mountain busting levels of energy, and obviously that's not what the writer had in mind, they wanted to show the character can easily snuff out large buildings not be more powerful than the most powerful nuclear warhead ever made.