Bruce Timm sides with Zack Snyder

I wonder what people will say now that the infallible Bruce Timm, who people want to be the figurehead of the DCCU, agrees with Snyder.

I don't see an issue with Superman killing Zod and I never did. He isn't batman.

@jayc1324: Batman would kill if the situation calls for it

Because Bruce Timm is smart.

@kgb725: not sure what makes you say that.

Wrong Batman always finds a way. lol

@wrglfan2814: Who killed Joker in Endgame?

Superman did the right thing.

That is a myth, Batman also kills.

It's an elseworld. It didn't bother me. It was riveting, imo. I loved the movie.

@vinomonster: @jayc1324: @wrglfan2814: If the Universe was at stake again he wouldn't kill to save it ?

Was it the killing of general Zod that people had qualms with?

No. But the moody angsty woe is me I have daddy issues super man was what pissed people off.

"Superman is so evil for killing Zod!"

But wonder woman isn't for killing Maxwell Lord. LOL

Only difference is one was about to kill civilians one was tied up.

I feel like snapping Doomsdays neck would be ineffective because he doesn't have bones, per say.

I didn't have a problem with it.

Don't like Bruce Timm or his opinions on most things, but the neck snapping scene wasn't a big deal. I just wish they had done it better.

I dunno why people have such a problem with it in the first place. It made sense in-story and was emotionally resonant. It was done much better than Batman 'indirectly' killing at least 4 people with no remorse in his recent trilogy.

And the criticism that many people brought up: "Thousands already died, what difference would it make if one more family died." First of all, If Superman just allowed several people to be burned to death right in front of him, he would be a monster. Secondly it actually is a better way to emotionally sympathize with few people than it is with thousands or millions. One or a few people die and it is a tragedy, millions die and it is a statistic.

@kgb @wrglfan2814: the leagues always last resort is the phantom zone.. Most of bats villain either end up in belle reeve or arkham.

@wrglfan2814: he tried to kill Darkseid. He shot him with what's basically Darkseid's Kryptonite.

Neat, but no kill rule hardliners don't consider killing Doomsday as killing. They consider Doomsday a mindless beast who is closer to a natural disaster than a super villain

I don't think I had a problem with the Neck Breaking thing in Man of Steel. Sure, it wasn't well portrayed, but the act itself is one of a few ultimatums that are, admittedly, not well done. Superman destroying the ship that is the last remnants of Krypton to save his adopted homeworld is one of them, as is Zod and trying to burn a family with his heat vision. In this instance, Zod is telling Superman this:

"Either you compromise your morals and kill me, or you fail in your duty and watch these people die, and since you won't have the guts to do it, the longer I live the more people I will go to great lengths to kill. I will not stop until the people of this world are long dead and only you remain as the protector of this burned and lifeless planet."

Zod was in better standings as it was, he had already lost his primary objective to restore Krypton, and as such wanted to make the one who got in his way pay for that. Superman, whose moral code should really be strong enough to prove to be one of his weaknesses, was then forced into a situation that he could not win. What people seem to grossly misinterpret is that from the act of breaking Zod's neck alone, he becomes a character who treats murder as an acceptable method, disregarding the fact that immediately after the act Superman is mentally and emotionally destroyed.

Not that I think Bruce Timmy is necessarily infallible, he's not wrong, not that so really had a problem with it. Snapping doomsdays neck though is far more justified than snapping zods

Bruce Timm also gave us one of the worst portrayals of Superman so.....

I was disappointed not to see a heat vision battle in their fight.

@squalleon: eh, boring. But that's just cus it was copying Pre 52

He was copying Byrne's. Which was all around awful.

Pre-52 changed drastically in the 00s, not a single sliver of his origin was left. And by the end of Pre-52 Superman was a completly different person.

To put it simply Pre-52 Superman is actually THREE Supermen.

@squalleon: each as stiff as the others

@superguy1591: As I understand it the biggest issue with Superman breaking Zod's neck came down to poor set up. It was a poorly written scene that was meant to gain admiration for shock value. I would bet money Bruce Timm could write a scene like that without it coming across so contrived.

@redlantern2814: no, no to everything you just said

@saintwildcard: So you think people weren't annoyed by the set up of the neck break, you don't think Bruce Timm is a superior writer, and you say this when the entirety of this thread would indicate my post has merit?

Well thank you for the implied validation baby! ;)

F*ck Yeah. Bruce Timm

@wrglfan2814 said:

@superguy1591 said:

@wrglfan2814: he tried to kill Darkseid. He shot him with what's basically Darkseid's Kryptonite.

He shot him non fatally in the shoulder.

If Batman used a gun more often maybe he'd have better aim.

If that had happened in a Bruce Timm film, nobody would have batted an eye.

At least they are Supermen and not Screwupmen or Supermen in name only.

Eh, give me a some personality over boring sticks any day.

1- People were annoyed but not for the reasons you posted. Most people can see why the neck snap had to happen.

2-Bruce TImm would lack any of the symbolism and depth that MoS had. Plus, he's only good when it comes to writing Batman.

3-THe entire thread says that the neck snap wasn't even the problem they had with the movie.

@saintwildcard: 1) "Most people can see why the neck snap had to happen" you said in response to my statement that people had an issue with how the neck snap was set up. So you deflected because you lack of an objection. So please inform me what annoyed people about the neck snap if it wasn't how it was set up.

2) "Bruce TImm would lack any of the symbolism and depth that MoS had. Plus, he's only good when it comes to writing Batman." Bruce Timm is only good when writing Batman yet was apparently so good as to garner enough interest on Superman snapping necks to warrant a thread. Also he has been a writer for Superman, Justice League, Superman: Doomsday, and an upcoming Justice League: Gods and Monsters. So not a specific Batman guy

3) "The entire thread says that the neck snap wasn't even the problem they had with the movie."

You should look up what the word entire means; also you would have to account for more than simply the neck snap. For example I don't have an issue with the neck snap as a plot tool, but I think the set up was weak. I counted at least half a dozen ways to deal with Zod in that instance without killing him.

Thanks for the comments though baby as they help me feel alive ;)

@redlantern2814: What?

The fact that Superman killed. That is the main problem. Trying to Monday morning quarterback the situation is only stemmed from that. Considering most of the suggestions for how to avoid it are stupid.

2) "Bruce TImm would lack any of the symbolism and depth that MoS had. Plus, he's only good when it comes to writing Batman." Bruce Timm is only good when writing Batman yet was apparently so good as to garner enough interest on Superman snapping necks to warrant a thread. Also he has been a writer for Superman, Justice League, Superman: Doomsday, and an upcoming Justice League: Gods and Monsters. So not a specific Batman guy

The dude who made this thread also didn't like the way Timm wrote Superman, so this thread has ulterior motives. Bruce Timm is beloved but again, mostly for Batman, and then after that Batman Beyond. Superman Doomsday sucked because of how much was cut out and Justice League felt like it was glorifying Batman most of the time which is a constant complaint heard around here.So just cus he wrote other characters doesn't debunk my statement that he was only good at writing Batman.

3) "The entire thread says that the neck snap wasn't even the problem they had with the movie."

You should look up what the word entire means; also you would have to account for more than simply the neck snap. For example I don't have an issue with the neck snap as a plot tool, but I think the set up was weak. I counted at least half a dozen ways to deal with Zod in that instance without killing him.

I've heard many of these things that Superman could have done, most of them are naive and not fully understanding the situation he was in. Feel free to list them so I can debunk them

@skit: Just correcting a guy who said the entire thread was cool with both the neck snap and how it was handled in MOS; also I agree that it is far more justified when used on a mindless killing machine like Doomsday vs someone like Zod

Superman kiled Zod in the Christopher Revve movie. Superman killed Zod in the Byrne comics (granted an alternate Zod, but still a"person") The Boy Scout Superman has only existed in "The Super Friends" and in the 1950's comics/T.V show. Go back to the early "Action Comics" written by Siegel and you'd see the Boy Scout image was never intended to be a part of his make-up when he was created. Plus, in the film he had no other option. Zod couldn't be jailed or sent to the Phantom Zone. Killing him really was the only option.

@saintwildcard: 1) Superman killing is not the main problem. You even claimed yourself quote "Most people can see why the neck snap had to happen" and "THe entire thread says that the neck snap wasn't even the problem they had with the movie." so even you think everyone is cool with him killing. I am pointing out that people who have an issue with the neck snapping have it because it was poorly set up. Had the scene been written better then the controversy would almost be non-existent.

2) The poster doesn't need to like Bruce Timm at all, but what this thread was made from is the respect Timm has as a writer.

3) Well off the top of my head: Superman could have flown Zod out of the building. He could have also pushed his head into the ground. He could have also put his hands over Zods eyes.

All of those suggestions based on facts presented in the movie. Superman had been flying/throwing Zod all over Metropolis and there was nothing to indicate that had been affected. Superman also survived, virtually unscathed mind you, the blast from the world engine in an area that was making him weaker due to the atmosphere shift. Given he could physically take that there was nothing stopping him from enduring the heat vision, at least shortly, to protect the people.

Hell maybe it could have even done something that caused Zod to kill himself from the compressed heat vision which would have been sweet.

@manwhohaseverything: Superman did not kill Zod in the Christopher Reeves movie.

And that's why we have "Truth" which reeks of individuality and originality....

Can't hide my sarcasm even if I wanted to.

No, I said the people who do have a problem with it tends to be because they believe strictly in the no kill rule. Not, because it was badly written. THe no Kill Rule believers will say that it is badly written regardless but none of their suggestions were any good.

2) The poster doesn't need to like Bruce Timm at all, but what this thread was made from is the respect Timm has as a writer.

No, it's made because people love him so maybe they'll respect his opinion.

3) Well off the top of my head: Superman could have flown Zod out of the building. He could have also pushed his head into the ground. He could have also put his hands over Zods eyes.

NO, no and god no. He couldn't have pushed his head into the ground cus of how he had him in a head lock (the fight set up that he was lucky to get him in a head lock in the first place), flying him would have only prolonged the fight. Superman could not knock him out. Trying to block his heat vision with his hands would have been stupid and hurt him only maiming him for an ongoing fight. Hurting your firsts in a fist fight is a stupid idea. Gouging out his eyes is also a dumb idea. In the end either the fight goes on for a way longer period in which way more people die or it ends there. There was no JL, no Kryptonite, no prison that could hold him, so prolonging the fight in hopes that someone scrounges up a prison is stupid.

All of those suggestions based on facts presented in the movie. Superman had been flying/throwing Zod all over Metropolis and there was nothing to indicate that had been affected. Superman also survived, virtually unscathed mind you, the blast from the world engine in an area that was making him weaker due to the atmosphere shift. Given he could physically take that there was nothing stopping him from enduring the heat vision, at least shortly, to protect the people.

THe world engine was a gravity beam that was making him weaker. That does not have the same effects as heat vision. SO tanking heat vision is just pure speculation on your part based on a fallacy.