lol ok one person was listening
Black Characters in Comics
To be honest I don't think anyone has said anything new in the last 24 hours. Its all the same information said in different ways. It comes down to, do you believe there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in comics. Yes or No.
Gambler says:
"To be honest I don't think anyone has said anything new in the last 24 hours. Its all the same information said in different ways. It comes down to, do you believe there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in comics. Yes or No."
yes... we need more good black characters in comics
M
Methos says:
"i spotted it and agreed lol i did a whole post about writers and artists only going with what they know... M"
oops sorry i did see that methos :)
Shadow Arrow says:
"Apparition your Icon rocks, Sorry im a massive fan of that arch."
thanks arrow. i love it too
Gambler says:
"To be honest I don't think anyone has said anything new in the last 24 hours. Its all the same information said in different ways. It comes down to, do you believe there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in comics. Yes or No."
Hmm, I only really think of Black Panther when I see the question posed like that. Sorry, not too many others come to mind other than Forge, Storm, or Bishop ... Does that mean Xmen does the best with black characters? Hmm, where do mutants born with blue skin or whatever sit?
My answer would then be "Yes", there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in to all the other characters.
CanadianWolverine says:
"Gambler says:"To be honest I don't think anyone has said anything new in the last 24 hours. Its all the same information said in different ways. It comes down to, do you believe there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in comics. Yes or No."Hmm, I only really think of Black Panther when I see the question posed like that. Sorry, not too many others come to mind other than Forge, Storm, or Bishop ... Does that mean Xmen does the best with black characters? Hmm, where do mutants born with blue skin or whatever sit?
My answer would then be "Yes", there is a lack of representation of GOOD black characters in to all the other characters."
Its funny you bring up blue skin. Last night I was thinking about that, and Mystique came to mind, but what color does she always use when trying to look human.....white.
um.........I'm not a big comic reader so i have no idea. But nice discussion topic. Shall we talk about the lack of the French, just kidding.
Gambler says:
"He turned them down cause thats what the writer wanted. Hell he first joined the Avengers to spy on them why wouldn't he do the same thing in the Illuminati? He may not have been an Avengers at the time but neither was Spiderman, Beast, Moonnight, or the other half dozen characters there, why would he be any different? He was in House of M, he just didnt do anything, he may not be a mutant but his wife is last time I checked anyways.
Post Edited:2007-08-24 13:53:44"
He didn't really fit on the Illuminati. Each person represented a group or area of power. Strange - Magic, Xavier - Mutants, Iron Man - Rich Whitey (actually, homo sapiens), Namor - Atlanteans, Black Bolt - Inhumans, Mr.F - Science. What would Black Panther represent? Africans? Then they'd need someone from every country. Black's in general? Then you'd need someone from every race. (Namor, Xavier and Black Bolt don't rep races, they stand for entirely different species, so it's not the same.) Iron Man couldn't be replaced as representative for homo sapiens because of the part he plays in WWH and Civil War, and Mr. F couldn't be replaced as Science Guy because he's much more prominent than Black Panther because, among other things, he's known (in and out of comics) for his scientific research while Black Panther isn't. And really, would you want BP on that team? Have they done anything worthwhile? Would you like to see him get manhandled (even worse) by Plot Device Hulk? I didn't read Disassembled so I can't speak to that, but maybe he just didn't fit. Did all the nonavengers really need to be there? Probably not. Not being in every event isn't a bad thing. Most of House of M took place in America, so of course you aren't going to see much of Black Panther since he spends most of his time in Africa. When they get over there though, he has a pretty good showing, killing Sabretooth and orchestrating Apocalypses death as well as protecting his kingdom from Magneto. I think BP is a good character and they don't need to put him in every story for me to see that.
Buckshot says:
"Gambler says:"He turned them down cause thats what the writer wanted. Hell he first joined the Avengers to spy on them why wouldn't he do the same thing in the Illuminati? He may not have been an Avengers at the time but neither was Spiderman, Beast, Moonnight, or the other half dozen characters there, why would he be any different? He was in House of M, he just didnt do anything, he may not be a mutant but his wife is last time I checked anyways.He didn't really fit on the Illuminati. Each person represented a group or area of power. Strange - Magic, Xavier - Mutants, Iron Man - Rich Whitey (actually, homo sapiens), Namor - Atlanteans, Black Bolt - Inhumans, Mr.F - Science. What would Black Panther represent? Africans? Then they'd need someone from every country. Black's in general? Then you'd need someone from every race. (Namor, Xavier and Black Bolt don't rep races, they stand for entirely different species, so it's not the same.) Iron Man couldn't be replaced as representative for homo sapiens because of the part he plays in WWH and Civil War, and Mr. F couldn't be replaced as Science Guy because he's much more prominent than Black Panther because, among other things, he's known (in and out of comics) for his scientific research while Black Panther isn't. And really, would you *want* BP on that team? Have they done anything worthwhile? Would you like to see him get manhandled (even worse) by Plot Device Hulk? I didn't read Disassembled so I can't speak to that, but maybe he just didn't fit. Did all the nonavengers really need to be there? Probably not. Not being in every event isn't a bad thing. Most of House of M took place in America, so of course you aren't going to see much of Black Panther since he spends most of his time in Africa. When they get over there though, he has a pretty good showing, killing Sabretooth and orchestrating Apocalypses death as well as protecting his kingdom from Magneto. I think BP is a good character and they don't need to put him in every story for me to see that."
Post Edited:2007-08-24 13:53:44"
youre right but i still would like to see more powerful ethnic characters.
Witch Kitten says:
"Wow, i find the term whitey very racist, plus tony stark has a great tan."
I was going to crop just the top, but I figured the whole page is better.
Yeah, i think that to, and i think storm is powerful enough to have her own comic, i know females and african-americans would like it, yo.
Buckshot says:
"Gambler says:"He turned them down cause thats what the writer wanted. Hell he first joined the Avengers to spy on them why wouldn't he do the same thing in the Illuminati? He may not have been an Avengers at the time but neither was Spiderman, Beast, Moonnight, or the other half dozen characters there, why would he be any different? He was in House of M, he just didnt do anything, he may not be a mutant but his wife is last time I checked anyways.
Post Edited:2007-08-24 13:53:44"He didn't really fit on the Illuminati. Each person represented a group or area of power. Strange - Magic, Xavier - Mutants, Iron Man - Rich Whitey (actually, homo sapiens), Namor - Atlanteans, Black Bolt - Inhumans, Mr.F - Science. What would Black Panther represent? Africans? Then they'd need someone from every country. Black's in general? Then you'd need someone from every race. (Namor, Xavier and Black Bolt don't rep races, they stand for entirely different species, so it's not the same.) Iron Man couldn't be replaced as representative for homo sapiens because of the part he plays in WWH and Civil War, and Mr. F couldn't be replaced as Science Guy because he's much more prominent than Black Panther because, among other things, he's known (in and out of comics) for his scientific research while Black Panther isn't. And really, would you want BP on that team? Have they done anything worthwhile? Would you like to see him get manhandled (even worse) by Plot Device Hulk? I didn't read Disassembled so I can't speak to that, but maybe he just didn't fit. Did all the nonavengers really need to be there? Probably not. Not being in every event isn't a bad thing. Most of House of M took place in America, so of course you aren't going to see much of Black Panther since he spends most of his time in Africa. When they get over there though, he has a pretty good showing, killing Sabretooth and orchestrating Apocalypses death as well as protecting his kingdom from Magneto. I think BP is a good character and they don't need to put him in every story for me to see that."
I'm not a writer so I don't know how exactly he would have fit in the Illuminati but I'm sure they could have come up with a good reason why he was there. As far as Disassembled goes yes, yes they all needed to be there, it brought emotion to the story, like we may not be Avengers now but we were and these were my comrades and there being killed. It makes Black Panther look like all he cares about is his Kingdom and Africa. I don't need to see Black Panther in every story either, but the ones billed as major events I would think you would want him to play a major role in. I know I do.
CanadianWolverine says:
"Would you prefer Rich Honkey or Cracker? I'd rather be called Whitey, Honkey, Cracker or Redneck than WASP... Who comes up with these terms anyways! Damn it, I want something that sounds more cool than that, so I can call my bros that. Frick, that or imitating "gangstas" when we hope no one else is looking ... just seems like there is no fun anymore. God, I hate politically correct sh*t just as much as I hate the racist sh*t."
why dont you come up with a term? maybe it'll catch on.
Would you prefer Rich Honkey or Cracker? I'd rather be called Whitey, Honkey, Cracker or Redneck than WASP... Who comes up with these terms anyways! Damn it, I want something that sounds more cool than that, so I can call my bros that. Frick, that or imitating "gangstas" when we hope no one else is looking ... just seems like there is no fun anymore.
God, I hate politically correct sht just as much as I hate the racist sht.
Buckshot says:
"Iron Man - Rich Whitey (actually, homo sapiens)"
Here's a thought: Why does the rich caucasian prick with big guns get to represent homo sapiens?
I think Marvel writers in this case are either racist or trying to say something about how they feel about being apart of this screwed up world. Doesn't Black Panther make a better homo sapien rep than Iron Man or does he get discounted because of his transformation process?
I think that this is real world people, no offense but in real life in america african-american's are a minority, you don't think that the creators at marvel just say i want to be racist today and not create any black characters, no they don't like i said afro-americans are a minority, and the thing is your saying there are not enough blacks but you overlook the greatest ones like storm, and black panther. who are married which i think is so cute.
CanadianWolverine says:
"Buckshot says:"Iron Man - Rich Whitey (actually, homo sapiens)"Here's a thought: Why does the rich caucasian prick with big guns get to represent homo sapiens? I think Marvel writers in this case are either racist or trying to say something about how they feel about being apart of this screwed up world. Doesn't Black Panther make a better homo sapien rep than Iron Man or does he get discounted because of his transformation process?"
The rich white guy with the big guns pretty much always get to put their agenda first. That's not so much a white thing, more the rich and big guns part.
Witch Kitten says:
"No i'd prefer caucasian, smart @$$."
Caucasian sucks as a word too. Honestly cock and then asian, as a word for describing someone with a lighter skin tone and various colors of eyes and hair...
Hmm, lets see if I can come up with something: Mongrel or perhaps, Dog aka Dawg. Since so many different peoples get lumped into "white" category (Greek, Italian, Norwegian, Welsh, Irish, Germanic, Polish, Russians, Spaniards...).
We already use it, so why not, now you are all "Dawgs". What up, Dawg!
=P
Personally, I gave up my national/ethnic/species identity because humans suck. I'm officially a Martian. I'm a White Martian (well kind of a Pinky Brown Martian) because I have yet to master the shapeshifting.
CanadianWolverine says:
"Hmm, Dawg for bros, and kitty for ... ladies. Why not?"
But I'm a guy. Should I be Superdawgie? Be a Dawg even though I'm Superkitty? :)
i think kittens represents girls and dogs represent boys. cause dogs can be really big and tough and loyal, and cats can be glamorous and gentle and kind. and soft
Gambler says:
"I'm not a writer so I don't know how exactly he would have fit in the Illuminati but I'm sure they could have come up with a good reason why he was there. As far as Disassembled goes yes, yes they all needed to be there, it brought emotion to the story, like we may not be Avengers now but we were and these were my comrades and there being killed. It makes Black Panther look like all he cares about is his Kingdom and Africa. I don't need to see Black Panther in every story either, but the ones billed as major events I would think you would want him to play a major role in. I know I do."
Why force him in when he looks better apart from it? Regardless of the motivations behind it, I think BP comes out looking better and showing more forethought by rejecting the Illuminati from the start than getting involved, or even looking like he's involved, and being there when it all falls apart. As for Disassembled, if that's why you think he should be there, then I disagree. On many occasions he's shown that, while he's not completely uncaring for the world as a whole, the most important thing to him is Wakanda. He will (and has) put his friends and the rest of the world in danger for the security of his nation. They're always alright in the end, but he's willing to risk it. Other than Cap, he really doesn't have what you'd call friends among the Avengers so I don't think he's that emotionally connected to them. Hell, he's nearly killed Iron Man twice already. If there's a major event that legitimately involved him (not a team he's not a part of and has little connection to falling apart, or something to do with mutants which he is not and which takes place mostly in America, or a war going on in a country he doesn't live in and already has a bad relationship with) then I'd like to see him be a part of it. Yes, they could make him a part of whatever they want, but then characters get overused and played out.
Well....if that's what kitty means just call me by my name to. And no jokes on the kitten part of my name, i will not be happy.
Buckshot says:
"Gambler says:"I'm not a writer so I don't know how exactly he would have fit in the Illuminati but I'm sure they could have come up with a good reason why he was there. As far as Disassembled goes yes, yes they all needed to be there, it brought emotion to the story, like we may not be Avengers now but we were and these were my comrades and there being killed. It makes Black Panther look like all he cares about is his Kingdom and Africa. I don't need to see Black Panther in every story either, but the ones billed as major events I would think you would want him to play a major role in. I know I do."Why force him in when he looks better apart from it? Regardless of the motivations behind it, I think BP comes out looking better and showing more forethought by rejecting the Illuminati from the start than getting involved, or even looking like he's involved, and being there when it all falls apart. As for Disassembled, if that's why you think he should be there, then I disagree. On many occasions he's shown that, while he's not completely uncaring for the world as a whole, the most important thing to him is Wakanda. He will (and has) put his friends and the rest of the world in danger for the security of his nation. They're always alright in the end, but he's willing to risk it. Other than Cap, he really doesn't have what you'd call friends among the Avengers so I don't think he's that emotionally connected to them. Hell, he's nearly killed Iron Man twice already. If there's a major event that legitimately involved him (not a team he's not a part of and has little connection to falling apart, or something to do with mutants which he is not and which takes place mostly in America, or a war going on in a country he doesn't live in and already has a bad relationship with) then I'd like to see him be a part of it. Yes, they could make him a part of whatever they want, but then characters get overused and played out. "
See though your kinda making my point for me, how or why would a reader identify with a character who doesn't care about America? This is the core problem of Black Panther, he's not black American he's African, and theres a HUGE difference. Like you pointed out he doesn't really care about anybody or anything besides his own kingdom, I need a strong black figure to represent for America. For what ever reason they've taken Black Panther and made his character one dimensional, he's almost the Black Namor in that sense. A true hero doesn't just represent his country he represents EVERYBODY. They would never have a major story take place in Africa and have Captain America go "well it not really my problem, I gotta worry about the USA and thats it."
Gambler says:
"Buckshot says:"Gambler says:"I'm not a writer so I don't know how exactly he would have fit in the Illuminati but I'm sure they could have come up with a good reason why he was there. As far as Disassembled goes yes, yes they all needed to be there, it brought emotion to the story, like we may not be Avengers now but we were and these were my comrades and there being killed. It makes Black Panther look like all he cares about is his Kingdom and Africa. I don't need to see Black Panther in every story either, but the ones billed as major events I would think you would want him to play a major role in. I know I do."Why force him in when he looks better apart from it? Regardless of the motivations behind it, I think BP comes out looking better and showing more forethought by rejecting the Illuminati from the start than getting involved, or even looking like he's involved, and being there when it all falls apart. As for Disassembled, if that's why you think he should be there, then I disagree. On many occasions he's shown that, while he's not completely uncaring for the world as a whole, the most important thing to him is Wakanda. He will (and has) put his friends and the rest of the world in danger for the security of his nation. They're always alright in the end, but he's willing to risk it. Other than Cap, he really doesn't have what you'd call friends among the Avengers so I don't think he's that emotionally connected to them. Hell, he's nearly killed Iron Man twice already. If there's a major event that legitimately involved him (not a team he's not a part of and has little connection to falling apart, or something to do with mutants which he is not and which takes place mostly in America, or a war going on in a country he doesn't live in and already has a bad relationship with) then I'd like to see him be a part of it. Yes, they could make him a part of whatever they want, but then characters get overused and played out. "
See though your kinda making my point for me, how or why would a reader identify with a character who doesn't care about America? This is the core problem of Black Panther, he's not black American he's African, and theres a HUGE difference. Like you pointed out he doesn't really care about anybody or anything besides his own kingdom, I need a strong black figure to represent for America. For what ever reason they've taken Black Panther and made his character one dimensional, he's almost the Black Namor in that sense. A true hero doesn't just represent his country he represents EVERYBODY. They would never have a major story take place in Africa and have Captain America go "well it not really my problem, I gotta worry about the USA and thats it." "
Gambler makes a very interesting point here
Sorry or the delayed response but I had to get to class. Strangely though, as part of some weird ice breaker thing (it's the first week of classes) my professor asked, if we could be a comic book character, who would we choose. I was going to say Mr. Majestic or Jack Hawksmoor, but no one knows who they are. I remembered this thread and said Black Panther instead. (Check out that rhyme.) Now that I think about it, at least 1 of my teachers every semester asks us to choose either a comic book character to be, or a superpower to have.
Anyway...
Gambler says:
"See though your kinda making my point for me, how or why would a reader identify with a character who doesn't care about America? This is the core problem of Black Panther, he's not black American he's African, and theres a HUGE difference. Like you pointed out he doesn't really care about anybody or anything besides his own kingdom, I need a strong black figure to represent for America. For what ever reason they've taken Black Panther and made his character one dimensional, he's almost the Black Namor in that sense. A true hero doesn't just represent his country he represents EVERYBODY. They would never have a major story take place in Africa and have Captain America go "well it not really my problem, I gotta worry about the USA and thats it." "
That's a problem for you. It's not a problem for me. I like the way Black Panther is. He has his interests and he protects them. Just because his primary interest is his country and not America doesn't make him any less in my eyes, America's got enough heroes. And because his first thought is always to his kingdom does not make him one dimensional. It may be the main driving force behind his actions, but there is more to him than just "Protect Wakanda", but that comes first because it's his job. And there's a difference between caring for his country first, and caring only for his country. He's not going to let world die, but he will protect his nation first. And of course you won't see Cap act the same way, he's not the leader of America and the one charged with it's protection is he? If you don't think he's a hero because as a king, he needs to focus on his country, you don't have to like him. I like him because he's a strong, intelligent, black (doesn't matter to me if he's black-american or African, maybe that's cuz I'm both but I don't think so) man who protects those he cares for, honors his commitments (to his friends, family, country), can hang with the big names in his universe, is always steps ahead of his enemies and doesn't take crap from anyone. I don't need Black Panther to be anything other than what he already is. You want a black hero that stands for america, or a "true hero" that stands for everyone, I get that, but does that mean criticizing a great black character because he stands for a nation in Africa? He may not go out saving the entire world, but he's hero enough for me.
Buckshot says:
"Sorry or the delayed response but I had to get to class. Strangely though, as part of some weird ice breaker thing (it's the first week of classes) my professor asked, if we could be a comic book character, who would we choose. I was going to say Mr. Majestic or Jack Hawksmoor, but no one knows who they are. I remembered this thread and said Black Panther instead. (Check out that rhyme.) Now that I think about it, at least 1 of my teachers every semester asks us to choose either a comic book character to be, or a superpower to have.Anyway...Gambler says:"See though your kinda making my point for me, how or why would a reader identify with a character who doesn't care about America? This is the core problem of Black Panther, he's not black American he's African, and theres a HUGE difference. Like you pointed out he doesn't really care about anybody or anything besides his own kingdom, I need a strong black figure to represent for America. For what ever reason they've taken Black Panther and made his character one dimensional, he's almost the Black Namor in that sense. A true hero doesn't just represent his country he represents EVERYBODY. They would never have a major story take place in Africa and have Captain America go "well it not really my problem, I gotta worry about the USA and thats it." "That's a problem for you. It's not a problem for me. I like the way Black Panther is. He has his interests and he protects them. Just because his primary interest is his country and not America doesn't make him any less in my eyes, America's got enough heroes. And because his first thought is always to his kingdom does not make him one dimensional. It may be the main driving force behind his actions, but there is more to him than just "Protect Wakanda", but that comes first because it's his job. And there's a difference between caring for his country first, and caring only for his country. He's not going to let world die, but he will protect his nation first. And of course you won't see Cap act the same way, he's not the leader of America and the one charged with it's protection is he? If you don't think he's a hero because as a king, he needs to focus on his country, you don't have to like him. I like him because he's a strong, intelligent, black (doesn't matter to me if he's black-american or African, maybe that's cuz I'm both but I don't think so) man who protects those he cares for, honors his commitments (to his friends, family, country), can hang with the big names in his universe, is always steps ahead of his enemies and doesn't take crap from anyone. I don't need Black Panther to be anything other than what he already is. You want a black hero that stands for america, or a "true hero" that stands for everyone, I get that, but does that mean criticizing a great black character because he stands for a nation in Africa? He may not go out saving the entire world, but he's hero enough for me."
And thats why nobody outside the main stream comic reader has any idea of who he is. He may be enough for you but sadly the rest of us need something a little more.
The rest of you? Please. Plenty of people like Black Panther despite him not being involved in every corner of the Marvel Universe or every event.
Buckshot says:
"The rest of you? Please. Plenty of people like Black Panther despite him not being involved in every corner of the Marvel Universe or every event. "
Jesus man, forgive me for daring to criticize anything about the Great Black Panther. Storm was a pretty well known an popular character, now what is she? The sent her over with BP and now she's a nobody. Do you have a short memory? Do you not remember all the countless times you have to tell people about Black Panther and what he can do? But your right Buck, EVERYBODY knows about Black Panther.
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