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#51 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer said:

@themanintheshoe said:

Batman's villains are much smarter and more classic

the genius that is killer croc. or clayface. or two-face. or killer moth. and the list goes on. whereas 97% of spidey's villains have at least 1 phd.

Batman has Ra's al Ghul, Hugo Strange, Hush, Simon Hurt, Owlman, Prometheus, Bane and the Calculator if you want highly intelligent foes. Meanwhile, Spider-Man has Rhino, Tombstone, Mac Gargan, Sandman, Hammerhead, Big Wheel and a bunch of other folks who have never formed their own team or organization because Marvel is clearly afraid that such a measure will make Mensa obsolete.

Really, don't bother raising indefensible points. Particularly if you're going to describe Harvey Dent as dumb when the man was a highly accomplished district attorney.

What I meant when I wrote smarter and more classic I meant the people who made them created them in a smart way, not that the characters themselves have high IQ.

#52 Posted by HellionVulcan (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are great to me but i grew up on with most of the spidy villains so his edge out batmans .

#53 Posted by Billy Batson (58268 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh, Spider-Man's rogues suck.

BB

#54 Edited by TDK_1997 (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@themanintheshoe said:

Batman's villains are much smarter and more classic

the genius that is killer croc. or clayface. or two-face. or killer moth. and the list goes on. whereas 97% of spidey's villains have at least 1 phd.

Actually 97% of Spidey's villains are idiots.There are villains like McGargan,Rhino,Tombstone,Hammerhead and others that are just complete idiots.

#55 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (8467 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

It's not about whose villains are more powerful it's whose are more interesting.

I think Batmans villains are more interesting because of the psychology they each represent, and how many of them are great foils for Bats. Spider-Man's rogues are beast, no doubt, but Bat's villains have such a psychological depth and weight to them. Many of them represent a vision of the world through the lense of different mental illnesses.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

#56 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

Spider-Man's villains are easy to remember because you just say an animal name and chances are you've hit one of the head. But they're not terribly interesting. Green Goblin is just Lex and the Joker combined, Doc Ock sucks (as Slott has plainly shown), Chameleon is boring, Sandman is waaaaaay too powerful for Spidey, Rhino and Shocker and Electro are good, Venom was fantastic but has been watered down completely. Beetle is a good guy now. Kingpin is off fighting DD. And the rest are by and large not very good.

This

#57 Posted by JamesKM716 (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman. Easily in my opinion

#58 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man villains.

#59 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey, I prefer less grimdark

#60 Edited by Fallen_Crippled (6460 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman villains have been explored and given a chance to show what they are capable of doing. Spiderman villains need to be explored more.

#61 Posted by Pokeysteve (8537 posts) - - Show Bio

More of Spider-Man's villains actually challenge him. Batman seems to just walk all over his. It's more about keeping them in their pathetic Arkham cages.

#62 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

More of Spider-Man's villains actually challenge him. Batman seems to just walk all over his. It's more about keeping them in their pathetic Arkham cages.

this true. Batman always wins. Even though I prefer Batman's rouges and think he has the better villains, at least Spidey's villains give him a challenge.

#63 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7761 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman. Spider-Man has a bunch of lame rogues gallery, that you hardly ever seen anymore. His most credible are Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Hobgoblin, Venom, Carnage, The Lizard, Sandman, Vulture, Electro.

Compare that to Batman who has: Joker, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, The Penguin, Hush, Ras Ahl Ghul, Two-Face, Bane, The Riddler, Catwoman, Clayface, Jason Todd.

#64 Posted by Nia Wolf (215 posts) - - Show Bio

This.

@extremis said:

It's not about whose villains are more powerful it's whose are more interesting.

I think Batmans villains are more interesting because of the psychology they each represent, and how many of them are great foils for Bats. Spider-Man's rogues are beast, no doubt, but Bat's villains have such a psychological depth and weight to them. Many of them represent a vision of the world through the lense of different mental illnesses.

#65 Posted by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

I think Batmans villains are more interesting because of the psychology they each represent, and how many of them are great foils for Bats. Spider-Man's rogues are beast, no doubt, but Bat's villains have such a psychological depth and weight to them. Many of them represent a vision of the world through the lense of different mental illnesses.

Well said.

why thank you

#66 Edited by Pokeysteve (8537 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson said:
@pokeysteve said:

More of Spider-Man's villains actually challenge him. Batman seems to just walk all over his. It's more about keeping them in their pathetic Arkham cages.

this true. Batman always wins. Even though I prefer Batman's rouges and think he has the better villains, at least Spidey's villains give him a challenge.

I prefer Batman's baddies because I love Ivy, Harley, Bane is always interesting, Clayface is fun and Hush was classic. I just think Spidey's are more credible I guess.

@jnr6lil said:

Batman. Spider-Man has a bunch of lame rogues gallery, that you hardly ever seen anymore. His most credible are Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Hobgoblin, Venom, Carnage, The Lizard, Sandman, Vulture, Electro.

Compare that to Batman who has: Joker, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, The Penguin, Hush, Ras Ahl Ghul, Two-Face, Bane, The Riddler, Catwoman, Clayface, Jason Todd.

7 or 8 of the villains you listed for Spidey have the potential to kill him every fight compared to 3, maybe 4 of Bats. Dent, Penguin, and Freeze are terrible villains. Catwoman and Jason aren't even true villains and haven't been for a while and Joker is only a great villain because Bruce basically allows it. His villains play to his strengths.

What specifically don't you like about Spidey's bads? Or is it one of those things you don't like but can't really put into words?

#67 Edited by HumanRocket (8922 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom enough said

#68 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: I agree on Freeze being a terrible villain but Penguin is a good villain,he's not supposed to kill Batman(same as Kingpin),so he cant be judged like that.Two-face can be incredibly cool or incredibly crap.

#69 Posted by captainsaul (140 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man villains usually have a better plot line.

#70 Posted by Pokeysteve (8537 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: I agree on Freeze being a terrible villain but Penguin is a good villain,he's not supposed to kill Batman(same as Kingpin),so he cant be judged like that.Two-face can be incredibly cool or incredibly crap.

Kingpin is physically capable of kicking someone's ass if need be. Penguin is really just a fence with a bird gimmick. At least Two-Face has history with B.

#71 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@pokeysteve: I agree on Freeze being a terrible villain but Penguin is a good villain,he's not supposed to kill Batman(same as Kingpin),so he cant be judged like that.Two-face can be incredibly cool or incredibly crap.

Kingpin is physically capable of kicking someone's ass if need be. Penguin is really just a fence with a bird gimmick. At least Two-Face has history with B.

Kingpin isn't capable of doing crap to Spider-Man if Parker actually feels like kicking his ass. Their last fight ended very badly for Fisk for precisely that reason. Penguin's history isn't so much with Batman as it is with his family's deep ties to Gotham. That's pretty much the only thing he and Bruce have in common; they come from old Gotham money.

As for kicking someone's ass, Penguin has been gunning down superhuman villains with his shotgun recently. Beyond that, he's not really a physical threat.

Moderator Online
#72 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@pokeysteve: I agree on Freeze being a terrible villain but Penguin is a good villain,he's not supposed to kill Batman(same as Kingpin),so he cant be judged like that.Two-face can be incredibly cool or incredibly crap.

Kingpin is physically capable of kicking someone's ass if need be. Penguin is really just a fence with a bird gimmick. At least Two-Face has history with B.

Penguin carries an umbrella which over the years has shown to contain different types of goodies.In a straight up fight he'd own Kingpin.But again that's not exactly a fair way of judging either character.

#73 Edited by General_Disarray (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Tough one, I'd love to see em have a huge fight lol... Batman villains just about take it for me, slightly more sinister, plus they come with Gotham.

#74 Posted by baron2011 (1154 posts) - - Show Bio

batman has better villains by far

#75 Edited by Jnr6Lil (7761 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@blkson said:
@pokeysteve said:

More of Spider-Man's villains actually challenge him. Batman seems to just walk all over his. It's more about keeping them in their pathetic Arkham cages.

this true. Batman always wins. Even though I prefer Batman's rouges and think he has the better villains, at least Spidey's villains give him a challenge.

I prefer Batman's baddies because I love Ivy, Harley, Bane is always interesting, Clayface is fun and Hush was classic. I just think Spidey's are more credible I guess.

@jnr6lil said:

Batman. Spider-Man has a bunch of lame rogues gallery, that you hardly ever seen anymore. His most credible are Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Hobgoblin, Venom, Carnage, The Lizard, Sandman, Vulture, Electro.

Compare that to Batman who has: Joker, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, The Penguin, Hush, Ras Ahl Ghul, Two-Face, Bane, The Riddler, Catwoman, Clayface, Jason Todd.

7 or 8 of the villains you listed for Spidey have the potential to kill him every fight compared to 3, maybe 4 of Bats. Dent, Penguin, and Freeze are terrible villains. Catwoman and Jason aren't even true villains and haven't been for a while and Joker is only a great villain because Bruce basically allows it. His villains play to his strengths.

What specifically don't you like about Spidey's bads? Or is it one of those things you don't like but can't really put into words?

That doesn't mean Bat's villains aren't credible. That's the writers fault for making Batman so much of a god, that he has no powerful enough rogues gallery to stop him. Either way I feel Batman has the better heroes, more gritty.

#76 Edited by fury714 (589 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey.

#77 Posted by andy_117 (91 posts) - - Show Bio

I kind of have to go with Batman, if only because the villains seem more... well-suited to the fella. The Batman/Joker dynamic is very obvious, chaos vs. order 'n all that. But then you have people like Penguin, who had the same start to life as Bruce Wayne did but came out as a monster rather than a hero. You have Catwoman, who also parallels well with Batman. Two-Face - the duality of Batman's double life. Manbat. ...uh, yeah.

With Spider-Man, I feel like - with the exception perhaps of the Osbournes, and Doc Ock - there is no real arch-nemesis, no "true" foe. I think J. Jonah Jameson actually comes closest.

#78 Posted by i_like_swords (16569 posts) - - Show Bio
#79 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

@andy_117: cough venom cough lizard cough

To continue down the list: cough Kraven the hunter cough Sandman cough Scorpion...Man I'm going to need to cough a lot LOL.

#80 Edited by Havenless (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@andy_117: cough venom cough lizard cough

To continue down the list: cough Kraven the hunter cough Sandman cough Scorpion...Man I'm going to need to cough a lot LOL.

This is exactly why Spider-Man has a better Rogues gallery. Batman has great quality at the top and a good quantity of villains. But Spider-Man's quantity has quality throughout.

My favorite Spider-Man villains are Mysterio and Kingpin. However, some people will argue Green Goblin or Venom are better. Others will say, "No, no. It's about the classics... Doc Ock and Lizard!" Others prefer straightforward villains like Carnage and Rhino.

Joker, Two-Face, Ras... they move the needle more than any of Spider-Man's villains. But once you get down into the teens, Deadshot vs. Kraven, Jackal vs Tweedle Dee and Dum, Chameleon vs the Crazy Quilt... this is where Spider-Man shines. You could have Dock Ock and Green Goblin not show up for 3 years and Spider-Man will have plenty of great stories with his quantity of quality in rogues. Could you imagine Batman without Joker for 3 years? It just wouldn't be the same.

#81 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

@havenless: Exactly. If you look, I voted for Spidey. And what you stated is my reason for liking Spider-Man's most of all.

#82 Posted by Havenless (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@bluelantern1995:


Sorry, I meant to quote you, not reply to you, implying I was also contradicting Andy_117

#83 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman all the way.

#84 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7761 posts) - - Show Bio

@bluelantern1995 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@andy_117: cough venom cough lizard cough

To continue down the list: cough Kraven the hunter cough Sandman cough Scorpion...Man I'm going to need to cough a lot LOL.

This is exactly why Spider-Man has a better Rogues gallery. Batman has great quality at the top and a good quantity of villains. But Spider-Man's quantity has quality throughout.

My favorite Spider-Man villains are Mysterio and Kingpin. However, some people will argue Green Goblin or Venom are better. Others will say, "No, no. It's about the classics... Doc Ock and Lizard!" Others prefer straightforward villains like Carnage and Rhino.

Joker, Two-Face, Ras... they move the needle more than any of Spider-Man's villains. But once you get down into the teens, Deadshot vs. Kraven, Jackal vs Tweedle Dee and Dum, Chameleon vs the Crazy Quilt... this is where Spider-Man shines. You could have Dock Ock and Green Goblin not show up for 3 years and Spider-Man will have plenty of great stories with his quantity of quality in rogues. Could you imagine Batman without Joker for 3 years? It just wouldn't be the same.

That's where The Black Glove, Court of Owls, League of Shadows/Assassins come in.

#85 Posted by Havenless (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@jnr6lil said:

@havenless said:

@bluelantern1995 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@andy_117: cough venom cough lizard cough

To continue down the list: cough Kraven the hunter cough Sandman cough Scorpion...Man I'm going to need to cough a lot LOL.

This is exactly why Spider-Man has a better Rogues gallery. Batman has great quality at the top and a good quantity of villains. But Spider-Man's quantity has quality throughout.

My favorite Spider-Man villains are Mysterio and Kingpin. However, some people will argue Green Goblin or Venom are better. Others will say, "No, no. It's about the classics... Doc Ock and Lizard!" Others prefer straightforward villains like Carnage and Rhino.

Joker, Two-Face, Ras... they move the needle more than any of Spider-Man's villains. But once you get down into the teens, Deadshot vs. Kraven, Jackal vs Tweedle Dee and Dum, Chameleon vs the Crazy Quilt... this is where Spider-Man shines. You could have Dock Ock and Green Goblin not show up for 3 years and Spider-Man will have plenty of great stories with his quantity of quality in rogues. Could you imagine Batman without Joker for 3 years? It just wouldn't be the same.

That's where The Black Glove, Court of Owls, League of Shadows/Assassins come in.

Yet with Spider-Man, you can't simply have a nameless organization come at him. It's not as compelling when he's grappling with 'Assassin #7' for 6 pages. Because he's superhuman, each group needs to have superhumans, and you can't just leave a Super Villain nameless. So this is where the Sinister Six come in. As far as Batman-isolated events, when Bat foes team up, it's usually short-lived, and they end up doing more harm to each other than Wayne. This is another area where Spider-Man's foes are superior. There are more story opportunities when they're willing to put their individual goals behind them and team up to stop Spider-Man.

#86 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7761 posts) - - Show Bio
#87 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man always and forever.

#88 Posted by Pokeysteve (8537 posts) - - Show Bio

Kingpin isn't capable of doing crap to Spider-Man if Parker actually feels like kicking his ass. Their last fight ended very badly for Fisk for precisely that reason. Penguin's history isn't so much with Batman as it is with his family's deep ties to Gotham. That's pretty much the only thing he and Bruce have in common; they come from old Gotham money.

As for kicking someone's ass, Penguin has been gunning down superhuman villains with his shotgun recently. Beyond that, he's not really a physical threat.

Meh. Ultimate Spidey got his ass handed to him. Not sure if that counts. I never really liked Kingpin but he's better at what he does than Os Pot.

Penguin carries an umbrella which over the years has shown to contain different types of goodies.In a straight up fight he'd own Kingpin.But again that's not exactly a fair way of judging either character.

In a straight up gun fight. In an actual straight up fight Kingpin can probably laugh off most of his attacks. You're right though. Bad way to judge them.

@jnr6lil said:

@pokeysteve said:

@blkson said:
@pokeysteve said:

More of Spider-Man's villains actually challenge him. Batman seems to just walk all over his. It's more about keeping them in their pathetic Arkham cages.

this true. Batman always wins. Even though I prefer Batman's rouges and think he has the better villains, at least Spidey's villains give him a challenge.

I prefer Batman's baddies because I love Ivy, Harley, Bane is always interesting, Clayface is fun and Hush was classic. I just think Spidey's are more credible I guess.

@jnr6lil said:

That doesn't mean Bat's villains aren't credible. That's the writers fault for making Batman so much of a god, that he has no powerful enough rogues gallery to stop him. Either way I feel Batman has the better heroes, more gritty.

It does though. Most of his main villains are barely a threat to the city. Guys Two-Face and Penguin exist in real life and Batman can hardly keep a lid on them. I think I see where you're coming from though. Gritty is a good word. Spidey has really colorful baddies. I literally mean color wise. It takes something away.

#89 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7761 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: But for the most part, Batman's villains are credible. Its just how can you expect them to be a threat, when Batman has pretty much turned into such an all powerful character.

#90 Posted by bob808 (6780 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman has the better villains.

#91 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

@bluelantern1995 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@andy_117: cough venom cough lizard cough

To continue down the list: cough Kraven the hunter cough Sandman cough Scorpion...Man I'm going to need to cough a lot LOL.

This is exactly why Spider-Man has a better Rogues gallery. Batman has great quality at the top and a good quantity of villains. But Spider-Man's quantity has quality throughout.

My favorite Spider-Man villains are Mysterio and Kingpin. However, some people will argue Green Goblin or Venom are better. Others will say, "No, no. It's about the classics... Doc Ock and Lizard!" Others prefer straightforward villains like Carnage and Rhino.

Joker, Two-Face, Ras... they move the needle more than any of Spider-Man's villains. But once you get down into the teens, Deadshot vs. Kraven, Jackal vs Tweedle Dee and Dum, Chameleon vs the Crazy Quilt... this is where Spider-Man shines. You could have Dock Ock and Green Goblin not show up for 3 years and Spider-Man will have plenty of great stories with his quantity of quality in rogues. Could you imagine Batman without Joker for 3 years? It just wouldn't be the same.

How about Jackal vs Hugo Strange? or Chameleon vs Scarecrow and I dont see what makes Kraven so much better than Deadshot.As for Joker,pretty sure the major villains of the last few major stories were not Joker(excluding DOTF which received mixed reactions).

Talia,Dr Hurt,Emperor Penguin,Dr Dedalus,Hush,Black Mask,Owlman,Nobody have all been the major antagonists in the last decade.

A lot of these are also new guys,or old villains that were thrust in to the spotlight.

#92 Posted by Havenless (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I was comparing second tier villains, obviously Scarecrow is a top 10 alltime Batman villain. And you can argue Batman's Rogues galley all you want, but Deadshot isn't even in the same hemisphere as Kraven the Hunter.

#93 Posted by DarthBat007 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Batman but mainly because of how much I like the Joker. :)

#94 Posted by Ninjablade09 (3179 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man.

#95 Posted by Toxicant (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of these guys have benches so deep that you could lose weeks arguing over just which villains count as the best ones for each. There's a lot to love about both groups, and I think my answer would depend on whether I'd been reading more Batman or Spider-Man stories lately. At the moment I'm favoring Spider-Man's villains, but that's bound to change.

#96 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman's villains are the best. The only people who say otherwise are die-hard Marvel fans. While Spider-Man has some fantastic villains, they're not nearly as recognizable and deep as Batman's rogue gallery.

As a quick example: how many people outside of comics know who Sandman is, as opposed to say Mr. Freeze? Sandman is arguably one of Spidey's greatest foes. He was one of the first to make an appearance and starred in the third Spidey flick. Mr. Freeze is a second-stringer in Batman's world and yet still has better notoriety with the public than Sandman. The point being Batman's gallery of foes are iconic. Spider-Man's are not.

#97 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Penguin carries an umbrella which over the years has shown to contain different types of goodies.In a straight up fight he'd own Kingpin.But again that's not exactly a fair way of judging either character.

Wait, WHAT?!?! Penguin is no match for the Kingpin.

#98 Posted by tupiaz (2240 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman has the best villains in comics. That the a so psychoatic and deals brilliant with the human mind in many different ways. Which has never really been shown in the Spidey universe.

@thecannon said:

I'll give a slight edge to Batman's villains, mainly because of Hush.

Hush is probably the villain that in recent years has been the most lame villain if not in comics then in at least in the Batman universe.

#99 Posted by TheCannon (19216 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@thecannon said:

I'll give a slight edge to Batman's villains, mainly because of Hush.

Hush is probably the villain that in recent years has been the most lame villain if not in comics then in at least in the Batman universe.

#100 Edited by tupiaz (2240 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecannon: If you aren't capable of making a serious argument or interested in having a discussion but only come up with lame on liners. Why are you then even on a discussion forum.