Beerus, Odin, and Galactus Discussion

if an idiot drives off a bridge, do you follow?

@fallschirmjager: that's not the point. You said "this is why people hate to argue dbz" you made it seem like only dbz fans do it,but comic book fans do it all the time.

i am not ignoring your point but how do you know that the previous guardians were that weak ? kami was the only known guardian to have a power level and we know he split himself for that position. how are you going to use my logic when there is zero reference on the past guardian's powers ? how do you know that popo is a lot more powerful than the past guardians ?

if whis's recommendation is to be taken seriously, then gods of destructions are merely tools of the likes of whis which still doesn't answer why doesn't he take up the mantle of god of destruction ?

kibito "volunteering" to protect supreme kai just because he's the weakest of the kai doesn't mean kibito is a lot stronger than kai. heck, if that were the case, he should be a whole lot more effective in battle when dabura ambushed them.

to summarize my argument, your instances where you think the servants of the gods are stronger than who they serve is unfounded at best, save for popo and old kami. you assumed popo is stronger than the older guardians and you greatly assumed kibito is stronger than kai when both instances don't even have a solid basis in the manga. heck, if i look accordingly, kai is said to be stronger than kibito. why claim the latter on kibito's part.

what? Kami isn't human thats the only reason he had such a high power level . Humans naturally have very low power level. Roshi is 320 years old and he's been refereed as the strongest in the world.his power level was barely 139. Your argument is based on the assumption that previous guardians were more powerful than popo . Hell you are talking about can't even fly and require the nojibo pole to reach Kamis tower.

if whis's recommeon indatis to be taken seriously, then gods of destructions are merely tools of the likes of whis which still doesn't answer why doesn't he take up the mantle of god of destruction ?

As i said before,He doesn't because he is not meant to. This is like asking why doesn't the minister become the king. These are titles ,not something you can place yourself into. This exactly like Popo and Kibuto.

• Popo : massively stronger DB humans////- But was still just the care taker for the Human gods .

• Kibuto : massively stronger than king kai////- yet didn't have any title .

kibito "volunteering" to protect supreme kai just because he's the weakest of the kai doesn't mean kibito is a lot stronger than kai. heck, if that were the case, he should be a whole lot more effective in battle when dabura ambushed them.

lol yes it does, are you saying Kibuto is weaker than King kai who is weaker than Nappa. The same kibuto who can fight BUU saga Base Gohan, and do explain your logic, because Dabura is stated to be as strong as Perfect Cell. He could pretty much one shot SSJ level characters.

to summarize my argument, (1)your instances where you think the servants of the gods are stronger than who they serve is unfounded at best, save for popo and old kami.(2) you assumed popo is stronger than the older guardians and you greatly assumed (3)kibito is stronger than kai when both instances don't even have a solid basis in the manga. heck, if i look accordingly, (4)kai is said to be stronger than kibito. why claim the latter on kibito's part.

Ok.

1. My argument is based on screen statement made by Berus himself, your augment is entirely based by denying the sated facts and relying on baseless speculation .
2. Your augment goes against common logic, you are saying humans were strong as a superior alien species. when no human is early DB history had the power-level close to 300.
3. The manga and the guidebook both proves that Kibuto is stronger than most kais, King kai kai in particular. the guide book literally says he could hold his own against base gohan.
4. Wrong, Kibuto is a Kai , ALL KAIS ARE BORN ON THE SAME TREE , supreme kais are of the same species , only they are born from golden fruits. You got your sources mixed up.

lastly,

stated proof>>>>>>>>>>>>>>baseless speculation

my arguments come from the fact that we have no background of the past guardians. we don't even know what these past guardians are. how come you easily summarized all that from roshi alone when roshi hasn't even reached the lookout prior z ? from what i am looking, you're the one doing baseless speculations on what the past guardians really are.

he's not meant to because you said so or he's not meant to because someone who has more authority in dragonball said so ? while i like your interpretation to it, "he's not meant to be one" isn't a fully solid argument to be used where there is zero confirmation to it by the author.

you indicated that kibito is stronger than kai but where does it say in the manga that he is actually stronger ? equaling base gohan from what i found isn't exactly definitive when there are numerous base gohans in the series. if he was a lot stronger than kai then he would have been at least more useful in that instance where dabura ambushed them accordingly instead of getting blasted in the face.

1. one statement that can easily be brought down by either the lack of credibility of a character's background or lack of number of corroborating statements afterwards. beerus statement remains the only statement to ponder on and it's not exactly quite strong to impose right now

2. my arguments comes from the lack of data on certain godheads on dragonball. you just went all out against common logic and assumed that there is data on that.

3. where is the direct quote that says kibito is stronger than kai ?

4. where did i say that kibito is different from kai. all i said that kai is stronger than kibito. why assume something different ?

your "stated proof" isn't exactly holding up well here. i repeat argument 3 accordingly. baseless speculation ? i find that funny when you pulled an imaginary data on what the previous kamis are.

my arguments come from the fact that we have no background of the past guardians. we don't even know what these past guardians are. how come you easily summarized all that from roshi alone when roshi hasn't even reached the lookout prior z ? from what i am looking, you're the one doing baseless speculations on what the past guardians really are.

Your argument also says that humans were strong as namekians such as Kami, a massively superior race in every right of power. where there isn't even a shred of proof that says there were humans that strong. Your argument is even more baseless, Roshi is stated on panel as the strongest martial artist in the world, he drank from the fountain of youth i.e he has lived over 320 years old , the time span he has lived is greater than any normal human can exist. And yet he's still referred as the strongest.

he's not ment to because you said so or he's not meant to because someone who has more authority in dragonball said so ? while i like your interpretation to it, "he's not meant to be one" isn't a fully solid argument to be used where there is zero confirmation to it by the author.

Ok, they didn't because the writers didn't want them to as shown .you are putting your speculation not only above mine but a on screen incidents . As far as authority goes any canon statements is greater than a fan speculation.

you indicated that kibito is stronger than kai but where does it say in the manga that he is actually stronger ? equaling base gohan from what i found isn't exactly definitive when there are numerous base gohans in the series. if he was a lot stronger than kai then he would have been at least more useful in that instance where dabura ambushed them accordingly instead of getting blasted in the face.

Its bluntly stated in the daizenshu character profile and other the newer guides that he can fight gohan in his base.Also, Goku wouldn't warn goahn if Kibito was weaker than nappa.

.

Chapter: 438 (DBZ 244), P5.5

Context: after Gohan gets matched with Kibito in round 1

Goku: “You’d better not let your guard down. I don’t think he’s just some regular joe.”

Gohan: “Y-yeah…I get that feeling too.”

Chapter: 443 (DBZ 249), P9.1-3

Context: as Gohan prepares to fight Kibito

Gohan: “Man, this is a predicament. Bulma told me that if people found out my true power, there'd be a big commotion and it'd become hard for me to go to school anywhere. That's why I disguised myself, but...He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

Keep in mind that Goku one shotted nappa , Base gohan was strong enough to hurt FINAL FORM freeza with his hits

1. one statement that can easily be brought down by either the lack of credibility of a character's background or lack of number of corroborating statements afterwards. beerus statement remains the only statement to ponder on and it's not exactly quite strong to impose right now

2. my arguments comes from the lack of data on certain godheads on dragonball. you just went all out against common logic and assumed that there is data on that.

3. where is the direct quote that says kibito is stronger than kai ?

4. where did i say that kibito is different from kai. all i said that kai is stronger than kibito. why assume something different ?

1.wrong lol please by all means provide the evidence, The last scean in BOG was of whis bringing berserk Berus down with a single hit, Your argument has no baises, in ROF whis himself says that even berus hasn't mastered his technique yet.

Worse of all you are implying you have more authority on the verse than the Writer himself. FACT IS Toriyama himself has stated out that whis is stronger than berus, your entire argument is completely baseless.

2. You are argument implies that DB humans are on par with nemmkians , My argument is based on the in in-universe fact that humans were not strong as the superior aliens. Out of the 2 , my theory weighs more since it has facts supporting it.

3.Gohan states he can't fight Kibuto without hiding his power, even base gohan at neemk saga can one-shot nappa.Also the daizenshu stated it , and its ridiculous for someone weaker than nappa to volunteer as body guard character who is beyond final form freeza

4. .... thats a very odd way of putting it, you basically said humans are stronger than mike tyson, anyone who reads it would assume that mike Tyson isn't human.

your "stated proof" isn't exactly holding up well here. i repeat argument 3 accordingly. baseless speculation ? i find that funny when you pulled an imaginary data on what the previous kamis are.

do provide your proof, as far the thread has gone you have just thrown down speculation and gone against the authors own words .

my argument said that ? my only argument was the lack of data on the past guardians and to assume beyond that is to see something we have no basis to argue. you're the one who pulled humans were as strong as namekians, not me. roshi being stated to be the most strongest doesn't really discount the fact that kami isn't well known at that point. in fact, only a few know that kami exists.

you're the one who said he's not meant to be one, not me. all i am questioning is why someone of whis's capability doesn't decide to do the job alone.

again capable of fighting base gohan doesn't necessarily say he's stronger than kai. using an weaker character in the series doesn't support the fact either and let me remind you that the scan itself was probably made prior the events of RoF, where base gohan hurt final form frieza canonically. there's already years of differences from that statement came afterwards.

1. insisting on one evidence doesn't make the whole case airtight because as far as it goes, whis and beerus still holds enough shadow of a doubt on what they can do and what they actually are. till we see more, one statement isn't enough support them. again, we need more proof.

2. my arguments came from the fact on the actual lack of data of the past godheads of dragonball in line to my question as to why beings of certain level don't take up the godhead mantle, not that abc logic were races are included. did i say anything about the race in my entire time arguing with you ?

3. again where is the direct quote that say kibito is stronger than kai prior the events of RoF and GT ? that's all i am asking because kibito and kai are characters with vague power levels. if i look accordingly in the internet, i don't even see one argument saying kibito is stronger than supreme kai. surely, you must have something stronger than quotes of kibito equaling base gohan.

4. again what did you read that in my argument ? all i said is kai is stronger than kibito. where did i add race and everything else you pulled up earlier ?

my proof is the lack of supporting statements from akira himself. him stating whis is stronger doesn't dispel the fact that he can do that job himself but he doesn't. it's not even going against akira's words, it's looking the meaning within his statements and frankly, it's hard to see that much info unless assumed by fans otherwise.

@kyrees: you are arguing that we know nothing about the previous gods so popo may or may not be stronger than them , which directly contradicts every proven evidence in the series that humans were nowhere close to such power level . Also what's your point kami was already god when Roshi was born. In all his 300 years of existence he's still mentioned as the strongest in the world . There are no records of humans capable of reaching such power, hell even prodigies like tien and Krilln were just in plv 220 in radditz saga. Your logic is like saying kriptonians can't kill cave men since we don't know how strong they were in the past.

Again because the writer didn’t want to ,I can give n number of reasons and it will all end with you denying it since it's never been stated. There isn't any rule that says stronger characters mustn't surve a weaker character .

you are Low-balling, that's like saying pui pui was radditz level since vegeta defeated him in his base. You are Low-balling a buu saga character to a fodder at the beginning of dbz. The guide says he would give gohan a tough fight, base goku knocked out racoom and Nappa with a single punch. No matter how much you nerf saying Buu saga base gohan having trouble with nappa level character is rediculous. Unless you have proof that says he's weak as king kai your argument is baseless and invalid.

1.you are dodging the point what makes your baseless speculations more valid than the Authors statement and in panel proof. We have more than enough proof that says whis is stronger.

2 . At post 32 you claimed popo didn't become god because he wasn't strong enough, every incrementing conversation is based on this. My argument is based on the fact no human is dragonball history has reached power level of 300, no one. It's literally like "saying kriptonians can't kill cave men since we don't know how strong they were in the past. "

3 . lol there isn’t a direct quote for 90% of dragon Ball characters. By your logic jaice would still die radditz level characters. You are denying It with your own speculation.

4.is that really important, I said you framed your sentence on a odd way. Also since we are on the topic do show some evidence that states there are kais stronger than kibuto. (directly stated proof)

What...... Seriously what's your argument about ? last i remembered you were still arguing that whis is weaker than berus. Now you are saying your argument doesn't contradict toriyamas statement that he's stronger.....

whats up with the DB maths degree?

@flashback0180:

what's your point in insisting humans were at that certain power level when there is no history of them so far of being a temple guardian ? heck, the older temple guardian wasn't stated to be human, kami and dende are nameks and the other candidates were makyan(garlic sr) why the need for power level arguments for that ? kami being a god when roshi was born tells us that he hasn't exerted that much effort to make his name known to the general public so the claim that he's the most strongest in the world is founded on the fact that kami and the lookout isn't well known at all

the point of me denying it is that it was never said by the author and you and my explanations are as credible as any other fan speculating to it. my question is still there to till the author says something to it.

i'm not lowballing kibito but you claiming kibito is stronger than supreme kai needs to have a basis and kibito capable of fighting base gohan doesn't tell me that he is stronger than supreme kai. why do you keep shifting your claim to me when all i am asking you is that one direct quote that says kibito is stronger than kai. attributing characters that are no way indicative in telling kibito's power level against supreme kai isn't selling me anything new because we have the claim of supreme kai being thousand times stronger than freeza or capable of one shotting him. you keep saying my argument is baseless and invalid and yet you can't provide me with something substantial that say kibito is stronger than supreme kai

1. i am looking for more than one statement and it's not dodging the point because we know as much as this that an author's statement has enough loopholes in it if you look at it accordingly. this is akira toriyama, the guy that forgets much of his works.

2. you didn't understand that point at all. popo ,for what we have seen as temple guardians, needs to be capable of creating dragonballs and popo can't do that. whis being an attendant to the god of destruction can actually do what beerus can do. you didn't understand that at all.

3. by your current arguing logic, someone who has a vague power level can miraculously be stronger than stated. who's speculating then ?

4. it is important because you are putting way too many things here that doesn't need to be tackled at all. why did it go to race when i'm only talking about temple guardians and their attendants or particularly godheads and their attendants ?

we already saw supreme kai claim that they are capable of one punching freeza (whether what form is freeza is not know). heck daisenshuu 7 already said he's stronger than super namekian piccolo. where is the claim that kibito is stronger than supreme kai then ?

and where did i say that whis is weaker than beerus ? my only argument to midnight was whis's credibility for his statement. then you just butt in and argued me for no reason. no where near your first quote on me said that whis is weaker than beerus.

I think i made my point clear, No earth human/daemon/half breed/monster/ undead have ever had the power level close to 300. you do realize that makyan were anime only charters, this like using SSJ level Olibu as proof .They never existed in the manga. Which also leads doors to other filler characters which directly debunk your opinion there was a guardian for planet vegeta, and its a well established fact that only the strongest of the race get to be King . and What? how does roshi not knowing who the god was relate to hin not exerting enough? No one apart form korin Knew about kami.(who is also older than kami)

he point of me denying it is that it was never said by the author and you and my explanations are as credible as any other fan speculating to it. my question is still there to till the author says something to it.

Except this isn't a speculation.

• its a stated fact that whis is a servant of berus.
• its a stated fact the whis is stronger than berus.
• its a proven fact that whis has more skill than berus.

using fan logic to dismiss these facts are nothing but denying .

i'm not lowballing kibito but you claiming kibito is stronger than supreme kai needs to have a basis and kibito capable of fighting base gohan doesn't tell me that he is stronger than supreme kai. why do you keep shifting your claim to me when all i am asking you is that one direct quote that says kibito is stronger than kai. attributing characters that are no way indicative in telling kibito's power level against supreme kai isn't selling me anything new because we have the claim of supreme kai being thousand times stronger than freeza or capable of one shotting him. you keep saying my argument is baseless and invalid and yet you can't provide me with something substantial that say kibito is stronger than supreme kai

O_O.................................

When did i claim Kibuto was stronger than supreme kai?

I SAID HE IS STRONGER THAN KING KAI, Who has stated himself is weaker than Nappa.

Kibuto is a kai just like East,west,north,south Kais.

1. i am looking for more than one statement and it's not dodging the point because we know as much as this that an author's statement has enough loopholes in it if you look at it accordingly. this is akira toriyama, the guy that forgets much of his works.

No, it is . In the end you, me , everyone are mere spectators , the authors statement is more valid than anything you and i can ever cook up. This is a weak argument, you are just using loop holes to deny it, these are stated and proven facts. I'm asking you again Unless you have any proof that says whis isn't strong as berus then by all means show it.

2. you didn't understand that point at all. popo ,for what we have seen as temple guardians, needs to be capable of creating dragonballs and popo can't do that. whis being an attendant to the god of destruction can actually do what beerus can do. you didn't understand that at all.

We have gone threw this already , popo has existed unknown centuries before kami was even born. He has severed generations of guardians ,LONG before Kami arrived to earth. There were no dragon balls before kami came to earth.

whis may not have the heart,maybe he's that powerful to prevent mass destruction , you don't know and neither do i , He is what he is because the author wrote him like that. This is like asking why didn't popo defeat king piccolo or help goku reach the battle ground with instant transmission.

3. by your current arguing logic, someone who has a vague power level can miraculously be stronger than stated. who's speculating then ?

No. someone with a vague power level is stated to give trouble to a guy who can one shot sayein saga characters.I'm buing your claim that Buu saga character Kibuto is weaker than Beggining of z nappa.

4. it is important because you are putting way too many things here that doesn't need to be tackled at all. why did it go to race when i'm only talking about temple guardians and their attendants or particularly godheads and their attendants ?

Because it was related to the topic and more impotently my argument, Ranks are not given to people just because they are stronger.

we already saw supreme kai claim that they are capable of one punching freeza (whether what form is freeza is not know). heck daisenshuu 7 already said he's stronger than super namekian piccolo. where is the claim that kibito is stronger than supreme kai then ?

I Never said supreme kai. clearly was talking about king kai.

and where did i say that whis is weaker than beerus ? my only argument to midnight was whis's credibility for his statement. then you just butt in and argued me for no reason. no where near your first quote on me said that whis is weaker than beerus.

>>>>>_>>>>>

I'll make this simple.

Right now,You are agreeing that whis is stronger than berus , right?

@flashback0180:

i included makyan because of how the nearly all the temple guardians shown in all version of dragonball needed to have the capability of creating the dragonballs which is one of my argument in godheads of dragonball. that also includes the nameless namekian prior to splitting that made the black star dragonballs. it doesn't go beyond what you are saying here at all. the claim of being the most strongest on earth by roshi doesn't include those in the lookout so why claim being the strongest on earth then ? either roshi didn't know those in the lookout or popo or kami didn't try to disclose their existence on everyone below.

it thinks it's this point of the argument that you need to look back at where i stand since you seem to misunderstood the part that i'm only questioning whis's credibility on his statement which is me not saying he is weaker than beerus.

it's also this part of the argument where the kai i am talking about is supreme kai, not king kai. the whole point of my kai argument was supreme kai

1. those loopholes are what made a lot of us question akira's work in battle forum terms.

2. then the temple guardians are out of the question regarding why certain beings in godhead position don't assume all those responsibilities because for the work they have shown so far is split into two

3. the confusion here would be we are talking about two different characters.

4. we don't even fully know how the godhood ranks are given. we all know that temple guardians are replacable, kais and supreme kais are practically ever lasting barring permanent death or disappearance and a god of destruction can be inducted.

@kyrees

i included makyan because of how the nearly all the temple guardians shown in all version of dragonball needed to have the capability of creating the dragonballs which is one of my argument in godheads of dragonball. it doesn't go beyond what you are saying here at all. the claim of being the most strongest on earth by roshi doesn't include those in the lookout so why claim being the strongest on earth then ? either roshi didn't know those in the lookout or popo or kami didn't try to disclose their existence on everyone below.

no and no. There was no Sharon or earth dragon balls prior to Kami. Only the dragon clan of the nammakian species can create dragon balls. This is the reason why Piccolo can’t create dragon balls he’s a warrior clan type like nail. Old kai was furious when he herd that earthlings could use the dragon balls, its something only neemakis can use and didn’t want earthlings to be using it. NONE OF THE PREVIOUS GAURDIANS COULD CREATE DRAGON BALLS. makyan are filler only character that goes against the manga lore . Roshi has existed for 320 years and he was referred as the strongest . (FOR 300 YEARS). None knew about Kami, hell korin only disclosed his existence because Kami requested it himself.

it thinks it's this point of the argument that you need to look back at where i stand since you seem to misunderstood the part that i'm only questioning whis's credibility on his statement which is me not saying he is weaker than beerus.

Ok then, so remind me what creditable statement are you referring? And try to make it short

it's also this part of the argument where the kai i am talking about is supreme kai, not king kai. the whole point of my kai argument was supreme kai

I have only argued about king kai. Why would I say supreme kai is weaker than nappa?

Roughly my augment is.

• Kibuto kai>>>> nappa>>king kai
• Where, king kis authority >>>>>> kibuto kais authority

1. those loopholes are what made a lot of us question akira's work in battle forum terms.

This isn’t a loop hole when the main source / the movies also state and imply it.

2. then the temple guardians are out of the question regarding why certain beings in godhead position don't assume all those responsibilities because for the work they have shown so far is split into two

Maybe /maybe not , as I said they could just be like that because the author though it would make a better pair .

3. the confusion here would be we are talking about two different characters.

seems that way.

:

This thread is rustling jimmies of peace!

GT has the black star dragonballs. while not considered canon, it's unique that they adopted the same setup on filler. again unnecessary info on the dragonballs, the topic on hand are temple guardians. roshi existing for 300 years includes the fact that nobody knew the lookout existed so how can you refer that roshi was the strongest there is in 300 years if the lookout was not included. has roshi reached the lookout and trained under popo's guise ?

whis statement in general about beerus. i'm only pointing out to midnight how to break a statement.

it's still a loophole because everyone doesn't fully agree with it and we all know akira's one of the few authors that tend to forget his works.

@kyrees: GT is offically non canon even the new game xenoverse is treating as a alternate timeline, And black star dragonballs existence itself is a pothole ,Piccolo can't create dragonballs, he isn't a dragon clan type he is born as a warrior type just like nail who he is fused with.

you are missing the point if rough is considered the strongest for 300 years, in the time span where generations of humans have lived and died , you can't assume there might have been some human strong as popo .In fact the series constantly reminds us that no human can beat king piccolo, including Popo himself says it. if popos previous master were as strong as king piccolo he wouldn't have made such comment.

I seriously doubt he forgot who the stated strongest character was in less than few months after the movie release on a project he was heavily involved in. Unless you are claiming he has alzheimer disease i don't agree with this.

galan

the point is who said the most strongest of 300 years ? if it was someone within the lookout, i'd believe it to a point. i'd forgotten the king piccolo arc at this point.

he forgot lunch, that chick who changes personalities per sneeze.

Huh. Only thing bills has is a character statement from a series whose best feat to date is destroying two stars. Claiming he's hundreds of billions of times stronger than what he showed is fan scaling at it's finest.. Odin, unlike bills has showings and writer narration putting him far, far past galaxy level.

To be clear, reason I'm not hiding the scans in spoilers is because there is some bug with the spoilers with the new update. Whatever posted in spoilers is disappearing/becoming inaccessible for some reason. I'll edit once the bug is fixed, tag me.

Odin vs seth:

The battle between odin and seth shatters galaxies, causes shockwaves on all planes of reality and tears the fabric of the multiverse:

Shattering multiple galaxies without even trying to.

Odin and infinity

Infinity, a part of odin's power (not the cosmic infinity - the retcon mentioned that the evil counterpart was tapping into the power of it's namesake however) covered all planets to the outermost edges of the universe with darkness manipulation - Odin dispelled it with a wave of his scepter once he woke up.

Even disregarding the controversy of whether the galaxies were simply covered by darkness or destroyed, galaxies were directly destroyed in their battle itself:

Surtur

Surtur, rival of odin destroyed the galactic core for simply forging his twilight sword - which by itself has the power to destroy galaxy.

There's still the idea that odin was only this powerful in classic days, he doesn't show powers at this level anymore. Nope.

The destroyer

Thor using Odin's power, to one shot destroyer desak - notably, it's imbued with runes powerful enough to take on universal armageddon - shaky showing, but stands due to the rest:

Redirection of the universal flame:

Recent mighty thor arc, The world tree itself was on fire by surtur. He gathered enough energy to sure-shot destroy nine realms - with a universal fire. But his main goal was to burn everything - start a chain reaction by burning otherworld and take down the multiverse - loki manages to cut the connection, however.

.Even without the other world, the universal flame - all the fires of creation - will still burn the nine worlds. Odin enters the fray, and effortlessly channels the entire blast to void.

Universal energy manipulation is a lot ahead of galaxy level feats.

Odin and Tenth realm:

The recent thor/loki showing is also another excellent one. It was revealed that there used to be another realm besides nine. As for how large the realm is, a panel on the inside of the realm itself shows it contains entire galaxies (at least two are seen in the scan, a large one, and another right below it).

The description, however, directly calls it a universe.

The reason no one knows about it is because an enraged odin literally tore the realm loose from space/time - roots of yggdrasil, sealed it away - yep, sealed an entire realm away - mind wiping the nine realms in the process.

As a fun mention, he also set a curse on it, strong enough to power the realm.

Trying to downplay him to galaxy level will need extreme nitpicking and bias, I'd say.

Not going to bother for galactus, he's canonically stronger than odin, effortlessly teleports galaxies about, takes down celestials and threatens many universes with his battles (said by oblivion). I have no idea why anyone would ever question him being galaxy level.

Bump

Show me odin one-shotting a galaxy. All I see in here is statements of galaxies being destroyed over a long fight.

these users on the comicvine who make a 180 degree turn in logic as soon as you talk about a manga character and contradict their own logic with comic book characters.

Real Multi galaxy- universal characters, with actual feats no bs.

Read prince aragons post above.

@lettsplay10: actually post proof like an intelligent individual.

@insidiousx13: there is proof

@lettsplay10: @kyrees: Not legitimate proof.

@insidiousx13: there is

Personally, I don't think Odin or Galactus were originally meant to be near that powerful. When the Beyonder destroys a galaxy at the beginning of the first secret wars its meant to be a huge deal and something that no one else could possibly do with such casual ease. It was originally supposed to be a big deal that Galactus could even devour an entire world. That in itself was supposed to show what a hugely powerful being he was. What happened is that as time goes on writers keep wanting to do bigger and bigger feats and so it became that herald level beings could destroy planets and Skyfathers could possibly do things like bust galaxies which means beings such as Galactus had to be able to do things like bust universes in order to keep the levels of power in place. I don't think Galactus was ever meant to be nearly that powerful at the beginning(circa 60's/70's). It became like a video game though where power levels just slowly get higher and higher.

While I understand and sorta agree with what you're trying to get across, Beerus just isn't on the level of these guys. He could eventually grow to be, but as of now he isn't.

@imperfect_cell: i've just decided to wait until dbz is over

Agreed

re-read my first post in this thread then come back to me better yet, read post #9

goku ssgss and vegeta ssgss<beerus

9+10=21. This means Beerus is 2000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x times stronger then Freezer Saga Cat-Carrot. Beerus also defeated Virginia. This means he can easily destroy omniverses with the tap of his finger, and that he could solo both Marvel and DC.

more like galaxy buster in SSGSS form

and they actually show them destroying the galaxy unlike odin and galactus and most comic characters

I'm sorry for the fans marvel, but, for now, Beerus is more powerful than them.

Odin has never destroyed a galaxy as a side effect, in fact, that image is not related to Odin, because even in the same comic, the authors say powers to destroy a star ....

That sentence refers to the eternal cycle of life (Symbols Odin and Suns that light up) and death (Symbols Seth and galaxies dying), in fact it is simple, if they destroyed as a side effect galaxies, because the planet is intact? Apart from this, if this is a destructive radius why should it rekindles the Suns? If anything, it should destroy the Suns ...

But this refers to the eternal cycle and not the power of Odin

Then Odin was born from the terrestrial biosphere, therefore, logically, can not be more powerful than the earth

In the fight, Odin against the celestial, Odin, Zeus visnu and combine all their power in the lightning that is only able to move a planet from orbit

Instead Galactus has never destroyed a galaxy, but in Annhilation after he absorbs all the energy of Annhilus, he launches a wave that covers the perimeter of three solar systems, but this is a unit of measurement, because after the wave you see planets healthy, spaceships intact, and the bodies of insects cut but not destroyed

He showed a lot of weaknesses, for example, he is unable to win Ego, which is only one planet, and in the comics, where he tries to win it, he throws only the miserable meteorites ...

When he returns to Earth, mr fantastic steals the ship and he threatens to destroy it. Therefore he is shown not to be fast enough to prevent mr fantastic to press the button and also they prove that they can not leave the land without spaceship

Beerus, for now, we know that destroys planets and stars with no effort,

then he is able to destroy galaxies that are a quarter of the universe

then we know that he is able to destroy the universe if he is angry

and we know that he can destroy anything

Beerus is only star level + by feats, statements are shit. Odin has galaxy level feat, so that's not shit.

Rhyming around is fun.

No odin has only statement, but not galaxt level sorry...

Even If we accept that by some miracle of wankery Beerus is a Galaxy buster...

he is still chump change...

this is the only feat worthy of note, but Odin, Zeus visnu combine all their power

@jigen879: so destroying galaxies as a side effect of battle and some more galaxy feats are not galaxy levels? Alright, whatever you say.

nono

that phrase does not refer to the power of Odin

It is the cycle of life and death

but this has nothing to do with his power, that he is not to destroy galaxies

excuse me, answer this question

if this power is delivered to destroy galaxies (dying?) because it should not destroy the planet where they are? why they should turn back on the Suns?

the funny thing is that the same comic is written that their united force can destroy a star .......

@houseshm: wat game is that. I don't even think it's cannon. Wish it was tho.

Tom B already cleared up how powerful Odin is and it was galaxy level.

Beerus is the GoD of the main universe of Dbz. Why would Toriyama have him destroy it or a random Galaxy? He blew up a planet by sneezing while sleep walking. Sleep walking.

On same token comics from 30yrs ago which had writers using statements, writers who switch seasonally, are gonna be taken over the actual Creator/Author of a series giving his word and using statements in series??? You guys are backwards. Or biased. Maybe both.

Like I said though. Tom cleared up Odins power level. I'm listening to the man in charge of marvel. Not fans. Just like I'm going to listen to the man in charge of Dbz. Not fans.

People just don't want to believe manga power levels can be on equal footing because "comics been around longer".

@princearagorn1 said:

Huh. Only thing bills has is a character statement from a series whose best feat to date is destroying two stars. Claiming he's hundreds of billions of times stronger than what he showed is fan scaling at it's finest.. Odin, unlike bills has showings and writer narration putting him far, far past galaxy level.

To be clear, reason I'm not hiding the scans in spoilers is because there is some bug with the spoilers with the new update. Whatever posted in spoilers is disappearing/becoming inaccessible for some reason. I'll edit once the bug is fixed, tag me.

Odin vs seth:

The battle between odin and seth shatters galaxies, causes shockwaves on all planes of reality and tears the fabric of the multiverse:

Shattering multiple galaxies without even trying to.

Odin and infinity

Infinity, a part of odin's power (not the cosmic infinity - the retcon mentioned that the evil counterpart was tapping into the power of it's namesake however) covered all planets to the outermost edges of the universe with darkness manipulation - Odin dispelled it with a wave of his scepter once he woke up.

Even disregarding the controversy of whether the galaxies were simply covered by darkness or destroyed, galaxies were directly destroyed in their battle itself:

Surtur

Surtur, rival of odin destroyed the galactic core for simply forging his twilight sword - which by itself has the power to destroy galaxy.

There's still the idea that odin was only this powerful in classic days, he doesn't show powers at this level anymore. Nope.

The destroyer

Thor using Odin's power, to one shot destroyer desak - notably, it's imbued with runes powerful enough to take on universal armageddon - shaky showing, but stands due to the rest:

Redirection of the universal flame:

Recent mighty thor arc, The world tree itself was on fire. Surtur gathered enough energy to sure-shot destroy nine realms - with a universal fire. But his main goal was to burn everything - start a chain reaction by burning otherworld and take down the multiverse - loki manages to cut the connection, however.

.Even without the other world, the universal flame - all the fires of creation - will still burn the nine worlds. Odin enters the fray, and effortlessly channels the entire blast to void.

Universal energy manipulation is a lot ahead of galaxy level feats.

Odin and Tenth realm:

The recent thor/loki showing is also another excellent one. It was revealed that there used to be another realm besides nine. As for how large the realm is, a panel on the inside of the realm itself shows it contains entire galaxies (at least two are seen in the scan, a large one, and another right below it).

The description, however, directly calls it a universe.

The reason no one knows about it is because an enraged odin literally tore the realm loose from space/time - roots of yggdrasil, sealed it away - yep, sealed an entire realm away - mind wiping the nine realms in the process.

As a fun mention, he also set a curse on it, strong enough to power the realm.

Trying to downplay him to galaxy level will need extreme nitpicking and bias, I'd say.

Not going to bother for galactus, he's canonically stronger than odin, effortlessly teleports galaxies about, takes down celestials and threatens many universes with his battles (said by oblivion). I have no idea why anyone would ever question him being galaxy level.

Nice scan wall but none of those show a galaxy being destroyed on panel

this is a galaxy being destroyed in marvel by a guy who can actually do it and thor shit his pants

Lol at the odin statements

First of all. Don't quote the entire huge post. Using reply button is more than enough.

Second. At least read before you reply.

1. Surtur scan, shows a galactic core exploding. Stars and all.

2. Tenth realm scan, shows odin blasting the tenth realm out from conventional time/space - tenth realm is the size of a universe, and actually shown to have galaxies in it in the very next scan.

Either way, what the scans prove is:

1. Galaxies shatter as a side effect of odin's fight - twice.

2. The sword of the character he stalemated daily - was created by shattering a galactic core (25000-30000 light years, about a quarter of the galaxy and place where most of the stars are concentrated) and has the power to destroy a galaxy.

3. He can make enchantments strong enough to tank the end of a universe and overpower those enchantments.

4. He can use energy manipulation powerful enough to deal with universe destroying energies.

5. He can rip out realms the size of a universe and seal them away.

All of that already puts him easily past multi galaxy level, even universal at times. "I don't see him destroying galaxy on panel" is a hilariously desperate excuse - at this point, when he has proven himself beyond the shadow of doubt to be well past that tier.

this is a galaxy being destroyed in marvel by a guy who can actually do it and thor shit his pants

of course. Thor is nowhere near galaxy level, much less odin level. They'd get annihilated by a galaxy level character without PIS. Just because he can beat bills doesn't mean he is near galaxy level, lol.

Also - that's PR beyonder who's multiversal+