Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

So no doubt the title that brought you here is pretty much all that needs to be said to get my thought across, but not the thoughts behind it unfortunately. For those of you that don't know, Battle Field Removal, or BFR for short, is a category that can be used in the battle forums to decide if one character wins over another character. And its completely retarded.

Now I doubt that there are a lot of people out there like me, who when they hear the word 'battle' they take it to mean an actual, down to brass tacks sort of fight, each character pulling out all the stops and wailing on one another or using their special powers to help them in the fight, each one trying to gain that upper hand on the other for the knock out or for death.

But...then you have those that, forgive the almost rage-like tone thats about to be displayed, say something along these lines.

"Well, -insert character name here- could just punch him/her to the sun and win!"

See whats wrong with that? Maybe its an effective strategy to postpone a fight, but to actually win one? Not in your life. Lets bring it down to this. IF, a character can be punched hard enough to be sent into the void of space, fly through multiple meteor fields, possibly crash through a planet, and THEN end up inside of a massive swirling ball of plasma, and still be alive during the ascent...the sun isn't going to hurt them. You can argue all you want, but if someone can take that kind of a hit, that kind of power, to their skull, and survive it, then a sudden durability feat being trumped by the sun is a bit retarded. Unless your a Frost Giant or ice based, then I'll concede that point.

So what do we have here, other than someone arguing that their preferred character, has NO way of winning, other than putting someone somewhere else. They can't beat them in a fight of straight up skill, so they just bury or toss the problem away for a little while. If you want a decisive battle outcome, take BFR out of the picture, otherwise all you are doing is enabling people to give their preferred character an easy out, especially if they are a super strength tank or a magic user.

I love a good portion of characters, such as Thor and Dr. Doom and Hercules, yadda yadda yadda...but they are all skilled in more ways, than just punching/teleporting their problems away from them. Going with BFR is lazy and shows you have no respect for the character or their power set, and you have no idea how battles would actually be won in a debate. Writers use BFR to keep villains or problems a constant threat without having to kill them off. In a battle forum, we aren't looking for that. We want a clear winner, and we aren't hindered by the writers inability to come up with a solution that is plausible OTHER than BFR.

You think Thor BFRing someone like Orion, or vice versa, counts as a win? It doesn't. Its a temporary solution, and isn't anything more decisive than me shooing a fly out of my apartment, only to have another fly come and take its place later on. Probably a poor example given the sheer number of flies out there, but you understand that analogy, or at least I would hope so.

Papa Midnite

#1 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

All that aside,

Superman throws wolverine in the sun easily.

trolol.

#2 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

BFR is admitting you can't legit win the fight and are running away in reverse.

Or else DeSaad OWNed Doomsday.

#3 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

BFR is admitting you can't legit win the fight and are running away in reverse.

Or else DeSaad OWNed Doomsday.

Basically.

#4 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

BFR is admitting you can't legit win the fight and are running away in reverse.

Or else DeSaad OWNed Doomsday.

isn't BFR the better option than killing everyone you fight though?

#5 Edited by Jonez120 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

Does this describe BFR?

re·tard·ed

less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.

No it doesn't. People stop saying retarded this out of context it sound stupid and ridiculous.

#6 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: shooting someone with backup from a gang is more efficient than going Mano a Mano. It's cowardly.

#7 Posted by Marshall_Long (2361 posts) - - Show Bio

Well to be fair if somebody is weak enough to get punched to the Sun by Superman, then they shouldn't be fighting him regardless. However Superman isn't knocking somebody to the Sun that's close to his level of power. I find that hard to believe when people say that in threads sometimes.

Though I wouldn't say BFR is stupid. Warping, or Sealing somebody can be pretty effective against opponents who are too powerful for them to beat physically.

#8 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Etrigan has punched Superman to the moon. Literally. Technically that's a ring out even though Superman was fine.

#9 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: Worth noting that Etrigan had better things to do than beat the tar out of Superman, and BFR'd him so Supey would leave him alone.

#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

Daww someone's favourite character got BRF'd in a battle, don't worry it happens to the best of us.

#11 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

*looks at post count*

*snickers*

Maybe you'll do better next time, bud.

I can't take threads like this seriously. It always comes off as pretentious when a newbie comes in trying to "educate" people who have been doing this for longer. It also comes across as childish, because it's usually the result of the TC losing a battle, or seeing a thread where a character he likes loses due to BFR.

All I read was the first paragraph. What brought me here was to post that comment, not because I see a problem with BFR. Don't like it? Don't allow it in threads you make.

Moderator
#12 Edited by AllStarSuperman (22953 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long said:

Well to be fair if somebody is weak enough to get punched to the Sun by Superman, then they shouldn't be fighting him regardless. However Superman isn't knocking somebody to the Sun that's close to his level of power. I find that hard to believe when people say that in threads sometimes.

Though I wouldn't say BFR is stupid. Warping, or Sealing somebody can be pretty effective against opponents who are too powerful for them to beat physically.

Superman has punched Wonder Woman from the sun to earth, whos to say he cant to the opposite?

@papamidnite said:

IF, a character can be punched hard enough to be sent into the void of space, fly through multiple meteor fields, possibly crash through a planet, and THEN end up inside of a massive swirling ball of plasma, and still be alive during the ascent...the sun isn't going to hurt them.

Oh the logic hurts my eyes. There is only 1 asteroid belt (if thats what you mean by "meteor fields") and its on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Small chance as mercury and venus are the only ones in between Earth and the sun. If all that is possible, the sun could still kill them I dont think you know how powerful the sun really is.

The Sun has a diameter of about 1,392,684 km (865,374 mi), around 109 times that of Earth, and its mass (1.989×1030 kilograms, approximately 330,000 times the mass of Earth) accounts for about 99.86% of the total mass of the Solar System. The core of the Sun is considered to extend from the center to about 20–25% of the solar radius. It has a density of up to150 g/cm3 (about 150 times the density of water) and a temperature of close to 15.7 million kelvin. The Sun releases energy at the mass–energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second, 384.6 yotta watts (3.846×1026 W),[1] or 9.192×1010 megatons of TNT per second.

Online
#13 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: shooting someone with backup from a gang is more efficient than going Mano a Mano. It's cowardly.

And that's related to BFR how? 0_0

#14 Posted by jloneblackheart (5482 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#15 Edited by Jayc1324 (13371 posts) - - Show Bio

Generally I agree with no BFR but sometimes I think its ok. Fights aren't always about who's better, sometimes its about who's willing to fight dirty to get the win. And some characters may have powers based on BFR or may use BFR a lot, like darkseid's omega beams. All of a characters capabilities should be taken into account in a fight and BFR is one of them. Of course, if you don't like it you can just say no bfr in your battle threads but its not bad all the time

#16 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

Daww someone's favourite character got BRF'd in a battle, don't worry it happens to the best of us.

Doesn't matter if it was my favorite or someone elses, the point still stands that BFRing shows lack of initiative on the debaters part, and they look for the easy way out because they can't come up with an actual way for their character to win.

@jedixman said:

*looks at post count*

*snickers*

Maybe you'll do better next time, bud.

I can't take threads like this seriously. It always comes off as pretentious when a newbie comes in trying to "educate" people who have been doing this for longer. It also comes across as childish, because it's usually the result of the TC losing a battle, or seeing a thread where a character he likes loses due to BFR.

All I read was the first paragraph. What brought me here was to post that comment, not because I see a problem with BFR. Don't like it? Don't allow it in threads you make.

I don't allow it in the threads I make, in fact I made it abundantly clear in the battle I posted that it wasn't allowed. The condescending and snarky tone you use for your little post really is quite pathetic. Don't like my opinion? Too bad that you read what I posted. Obviously your inner troll tugged at you and made you want to post. Sad human being you must be.

@marshall_long said:

Well to be fair if somebody is weak enough to get punched to the Sun by Superman, then they shouldn't be fighting him regardless. However Superman isn't knocking somebody to the Sun that's close to his level of power. I find that hard to believe when people say that in threads sometimes.

Though I wouldn't say BFR is stupid. Warping, or Sealing somebody can be pretty effective against opponents who are too powerful for them to beat physically.

Superman has punched Wonder Woman from the sun to earth, whos to say he cant to the opposite?

@papamidnite said:

IF, a character can be punched hard enough to be sent into the void of space, fly through multiple meteor fields, possibly crash through a planet, and THEN end up inside of a massive swirling ball of plasma, and still be alive during the ascent...the sun isn't going to hurt them.

Oh the logic hurts my eyes. There is only 1 asteroid belt (if thats what you mean by "meteor fields") and its on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Small chance as mercury and venus are the only ones in between Earth and the sun. If all that is possible, the sun could still kill them I dont think you know how powerful the sun really is.

The Sun has a diameter of about 1,392,684 km (865,374 mi), around 109 times that of Earth, and its mass (1.989×1030 kilograms, approximately 330,000 times the mass of Earth) accounts for about 99.86% of the total mass of the Solar System. The core of the Sun is considered to extend from the center to about 20–25% of the solar radius. It has a density of up to150 g/cm3 (about 150 times the density of water) and a temperature of close to 15.7 million kelvin. The Sun releases energy at the mass–energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second, 384.6 yotta watts (3.846×1026 W),[1] or 9.192×1010 megatons of TNT per second.

Bringing actual science into this is rather stupid since no one can actually fly, or shoot lasers from their eyes, or lift umpteen trillion tons, so I fail to see your point in posting these facts. As for the multiple 'meteor fields' that I posted, yes I was exaggerating. Regardless, its not REAL life, and you know, if anyone writing the comic has something like this happen, they WILL have them fly through at least one asteroid field. So, mind cutting the crap?

@papamidnite: Watch your language in the forums.

Where exactly did I cuss? I don't see it.

#17 Posted by RD189 (1568 posts) - - Show Bio

BFR can be a killing blow. Let's say Superman is fighting...Legion for example. If David figured out the whole Red Sun thing, David can simply transport Supes to that star, and boom, he's done.

Another example I could think of would be Dr Strange/Magik banishing someone to hell or limbo. That, would also kill Superman I think.

I'm not disagreeing with you though. In terms of writing, BFR is a cop out, especially if it's done to advance the story, IE Legion sends Superman to mars so he can go fight Batman. I think, especially when dealing with high level characters, writers need to find a better way to resolve conflicts.

#18 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@rd189 said:

BFR can be a killing blow. Let's say Superman is fighting...Legion for example. If David figured out the whole Red Sun thing, David can simply transport Supes to that star, and boom, he's done.

Another example I could think of would be Dr Strange/Magik banishing someone to hell or limbo. That, would also kill Superman I think.

I'm not disagreeing with you though. In terms of writing, BFR is a cop out, especially if it's done to advance the story, IE Legion sends Superman to mars so he can go fight Batman. I think, especially when dealing with high level characters, writers need to find a better way to resolve conflicts.

I wasn't arguing that it can't be used to kill someone. But its hardly ever used as such. In fact, until now I've never seen someone make that argument. Regardless, people use it as a cop out, and while it could be an effective strategy, if used correctly, the masses out there that use it as a last resort have reduced it to nothing more than just running away from a problem, rather than being able to put it down with your own hands. Just my two cent's anyways, but people will be butt-hurt because they love BFRing since it gives them the easy out.

#19 Posted by Jonez120 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

@papamidnite: Bro, we are not stupid. You edited the swearing out.

Smh some people...

#20 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonez120 said:

@papamidnite: Bro, we are not stupid. You edited the swearing out.

Smh some people...

I did no such thing. If you have proof to back up your claim than present it. I have not edited my original post in the slightest, so kindly, piss off.

#21 Edited by jloneblackheart (5482 posts) - - Show Bio

@papamidnite: You chose a certain adjective for retarded that began with an 'f.' I edited it out.

Moderator
#22 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@papamidnite: You chose a certain adjective for retarded that began with an 'f.' I edited it out.

Alright then. I'll keep it mind next time.

#23 Posted by SC (13341 posts) - - Show Bio

@papamidnite: Also not to make you feel like you are being ganged up on, but please refrain from referring to posters as being sad human beings. I understand that some users have not been complimentary towards your thread and also may have been snarky about their criticism and their is a blurry line here, but please try to be civil. Thank you.

Also this applies to all other users as far as criticism and disagreements with the thread starter. I don't think they are here to start trouble, and they seem sincere about expressive their views. They gave reasons and put effort into this rather than a one line troll sentence. That deserves a certain about of courtesy and respect even if you disagree with them.

Oh and personally I like what the OP said, I thought they made valid points. Lets try focus on those points and not each other. Cheers.

Moderator
#24 Posted by The_Imperator (1974 posts) - - Show Bio

Bringing actual science into this is rather stupid since no one can actually fly, or shoot lasers from their eyes, or lift umpteen trillion tons, so I fail to see your point in posting these facts. As for the multiple 'meteor fields' that I posted, yes I was exaggerating. Regardless, its not REAL life, and you know, if anyone writing the comic has something like this happen, they WILL have them fly through at least one asteroid field. So, mind cutting the crap?

In that case, if we shouldn't bring in actual science, then why do you argue this:

IF, a character can be punched hard enough to be sent into the void of space, fly through multiple meteor fields, possibly crash through a planet, and THEN end up inside of a massive swirling ball of plasma, and still be alive during the ascent...the sun isn't going to hurt them.

That all assumes that those things work in a way akin to real life. What if asteroids and such are like tissue paper? You can't say they aren't, as you have no way to test every single asteroid. What if kinetic energy functions differently, and this getting hit by something does orders of magnitude less damage than getting burned by something? What if heat can just auto-kill anything? What if physical damage is mitigated by a special type of quantum particle?

If you choose to say no bringing in science, you have to abandon VS. battles all together, as the only way to quantify anything is to assume, unless specifically stated otherwise as a theory or law of physics in universe (or on a case by case basis for special cases), that things in fiction work effectively the same as real life. The obvious exceptions to this are things that run on the Toon Force. Everything else should be assumed to work like real life unless specifically contradicted by something other than in universe opinion. At least, that's how I've picked up debating imaginary characters.

#25 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6455 posts) - - Show Bio

................

#26 Posted by lesterlawton (902 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not as stupid as "prep time".

#27 Posted by MetalJimmor (1622 posts) - - Show Bio

Some characters can't be killed, thus BFR is the only way to win the fight even if they are against an opponent who is blatantly superior in nearly every aspect.

#28 Posted by PapaMidnite (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@papamidnite said:

Bringing actual science into this is rather stupid since no one can actually fly, or shoot lasers from their eyes, or lift umpteen trillion tons, so I fail to see your point in posting these facts. As for the multiple 'meteor fields' that I posted, yes I was exaggerating. Regardless, its not REAL life, and you know, if anyone writing the comic has something like this happen, they WILL have them fly through at least one asteroid field. So, mind cutting the crap?

In that case, if we shouldn't bring in actual science, then why do you argue this:

@papamidnite said:

IF, a character can be punched hard enough to be sent into the void of space, fly through multiple meteor fields, possibly crash through a planet, and THEN end up inside of a massive swirling ball of plasma, and still be alive during the ascent...the sun isn't going to hurt them.

That all assumes that those things work in a way akin to real life. What if asteroids and such are like tissue paper? You can't say they aren't, as you have no way to test every single asteroid. What if kinetic energy functions differently, and this getting hit by something does orders of magnitude less damage than getting burned by something? What if heat can just auto-kill anything? What if physical damage is mitigated by a special type of quantum particle?

If you choose to say no bringing in science, you have to abandon VS. battles all together, as the only way to quantify anything is to assume, unless specifically stated otherwise as a theory or law of physics in universe (or on a case by case basis for special cases), that things in fiction work effectively the same as real life. The obvious exceptions to this are things that run on the Toon Force. Everything else should be assumed to work like real life unless specifically contradicted by something other than in universe opinion. At least, that's how I've picked up debating imaginary characters.

This has nothing to do with them working like real life. That was the point of my statement. Bringing in the suns power and density and size means nothing to a comic book world, but the fact that someone, in the comic world, can be punched to the sun and still survive the force of that particular blow, being incinerated by power of a swirling ball of plasma is dumb as well. Look at Superman, or anyones defending of him and his 'sun-dips.' He can be punched to the sun, and survive it, and so can his costume, so its not science I'm debating here, its character portrayals. Bringing science into play does nothing to help someones argument, unless they are comparing strength feats and someone actually took the time to figure out the weight of whatever it is that the character is hauling.

@sc said:

@papamidnite: Also not to make you feel like you are being ganged up on, but please refrain from referring to posters as being sad human beings. I understand that some users have not been complimentary towards your thread and also may have been snarky about their criticism and their is a blurry line here, but please try to be civil. Thank you.

Also this applies to all other users as far as criticism and disagreements with the thread starter. I don't think they are here to start trouble, and they seem sincere about expressive their views. They gave reasons and put effort into this rather than a one line troll sentence. That deserves a certain about of courtesy and respect even if you disagree with them.

Oh and personally I like what the OP said, I thought they made valid points. Lets try focus on those points and not each other. Cheers.

I apologize. But snarky comments from those that know nothing about me tick me off to no end and I felt the need to defend myself, and what I posted. I'll keep it in mind for future altercations.

#29 Posted by hyperbertha (1325 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by Chibi_cute (4612 posts) - - Show Bio

All that aside,

Superman throws wolverine in the sun easily.

trolol.

LOOL