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Posted by inferiorego (27805 posts) - - Show Bio

The Good

Batman teams up with Aquaman to take on some clone in order to get Damian body back. This story is pretty dang cool and feels like a really solid adventure. This is something fans will want to continue reading, even if this issue wasn't their particular cup of tea. While this book reads more of a Batman-centric tour of the DCU, Peter Tomasi keeps it fun.

On the art side of things, there are some problems with Patrick Gleason, but he also puts out some amazing work. One page in particular looks beautiful, featuring Batman running down a hallway, punching a few guys out. It's four panels and by far one of the stand-out pages this week in comics. Gleason does well with establishing shots that will really stick with the reader, hours after they've put the book down.

The Bad

So, Titus sneaks on board the ship with Batman, but there's no real point. We see him in the opening for a few pages and then again, in one panel, at the end. That's it. He's not a part of the book aside from that. Is that something we're going to see in the next issue? One would have to assume so.

The Batman/Aquaman relationship is pretty non-existent in other DC books, aside from JUSTICE LEAGUE, so seeing them together is pretty cool but at the same time, it feels unnecessary. Any time anything takes place underwater, Aquaman has to be there. The reason he's there, from his side, makes sense (finding out why whales are screaming); however, the reason these whales are screaming is pretty ridiculous and makes for a silly plot point, which then leads to Aquaman realizing he can use his powers to defeat the bad guys. All-in-all, Aquaman's existence in this issue serves no real good purpose other than the fun of seeing these two leaguers working together.

Aquaman doesn't really look like Aquaman. Sure the blonde hair and orange scales are there, but his face if huge. He looks like a bodybuilder, which is in pretty big contrast to the version from AQUAMAN which is much slimmer in the face and upper-body.

The Verdict

While the overall story of what Batman is trying to achieve in this story is the best part of the issue, the rest of it falls flat. The Aquaman team-up feels a bit pointless and way too coincidental. He also doesn't really look like Aquaman, but more like a beefed-up version of the New 52 version of Arthur Curry. While there are a lot of problems with this overall issue, the larger story is incredibly intriguing and worth the reader; however, I cannot recommend this issue.

#1 Posted by The Stegman (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

2 Stars??? OUTRAGEOUS!

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#2 Posted by Mucklefluga (2609 posts) - - Show Bio

I was literally just about to press the purchase button on Comixology. Glad I checked Comic Vine beforehand.

#3 Edited by k4tzm4n (51200 posts) - - Show Bio

Gregg yesterday: BATMAN & AQUAMAN is the first book I'm going to read after my reviews are done!

Gregg today: okay, maybe I'll get around to it a little later...

Staff
#4 Edited by Saren (26027 posts) - - Show Bio

however, the reason these whales are screaming is pretty ridiculous and makes for a silly plot point,

This seems like a strange thing to find fault with, seeing as that's what the Heretic's origin was since way back in the Planet Gotham one-shot: the Leviathan born in the belly of a whale. The only difference was that Talia's whale was already dead, while Ra's uses whales that are still alive, which is ridiculous in the sense that it's just taking him further and further away from the eco-terrorist angle. I've completely forgotten what Ra's is about; all he seems to do these days is screw around with Batman.

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#5 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5237 posts) - - Show Bio

The curse of Aquaman.

#6 Posted by StrangeMan (411 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that's unfortunate, but there's really one thing that's important here:

Did anyone at any time in the comic shout "outrageous"?

#7 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8160 posts) - - Show Bio

God I hate that DC keeps trying to force Aquaman on us.

His Series

His Other Series

Justice League

Now they shoe horn him into Batman and Robin

They're making him just like another character I know...I forget his name though :P

(Aquaman <3)

#8 Posted by Master_Thief (775 posts) - - Show Bio

A Batman title with 2 stars

Thats why aquaman never gets a movie!!!!

#9 Edited by NathanXplosion (54 posts) - - Show Bio

When the New 52 started this was one of my favorite books, but when Damien was killed the book went down hill fast. I mean how can you have a book called Batman & Robin when Robin is dead?

#10 Posted by fil123 (592 posts) - - Show Bio

"He also doesn't really look like Aquaman, but more like a beefed-up version of the New 52 version of Arthur Curry"

what?

#11 Posted by Squalleon (4745 posts) - - Show Bio

The curse of Aquaman.

A Batman title with 2 stars

Thats why aquaman never gets a movie!!!!

Actually, this is a team up title, it is only logical Aquaman will be in it at some point, Wonder Woman is next
I think.

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (45169 posts) - - Show Bio

Ouch.

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#13 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5237 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman's not cool enough to hang with Bats. He single handily sank this issue. ;)

#14 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

ONLY 2 STARS? You hater of superhero comics, what have Batman and Aquaman ever done to you? :P

Jokes, listening to the last Comicvine podcast has now engrained this little joke into my head so I saw an opportunity to put it in play. Seriously, you do justify your 2 stars exceptionally well which is what I'd expect from a top notch reviewer like yourself Mat.

#15 Posted by aquaman01 (1848 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman's not cool enough to hang with Bats. He single handily sank this issue. ;)

It's actually the opposite. It doesn't make sense, but it is true :)

#16 Posted by Dstick88 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

When the New 52 started this was one of my favorite books, but when Damien was killed the book went down hill fast. I mean how can you have a book called Batman & Robin when Robin is dead?

this is how i feel i loved damian as robin, either bring him back or kill the book imo

#17 Posted by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh please. Your complaints were nitpicky and your review is turning people away from the book. I doubt your low review score is justified, but the damage is done.

#18 Posted by jwalser3 (5261 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because it wasn't necessary doesn't mean it wasn't fun.

#19 Edited by TimeLordScience (1304 posts) - - Show Bio

@mucklefluga: I wouldn't let one guys opinion completely deter you

#20 Posted by Brione (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Only 2 stars for this is crazy. This is a 5 star comic.

The point of Titus sneaking on the ship is because the dog had a special relationship with Damian and wants to help find him. Titus is there for an emotional response from the reader and I for one loved it. People who have read the whole series will get that.

#21 Posted by Brione (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Only 2 stars for this is crazy. This is a 5 star comic.

The point of Titus sneaking on the ship is because the dog had a special relationship with Damian and wants to help find him. Titus is there for an emotional response from the reader and I for one loved it. People who have read the whole series will get that.

#22 Posted by HushoftheWind (1110 posts) - - Show Bio

The book got 2 stars because there are 2 mega hit stars in this book, that being Batman and Aquaman.

#23 Posted by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

Go home Elfring, you're drunk

#24 Edited by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

It's got a 9/10 on Newsarama.

I'll update later with more scores.

#25 Edited by mak13131313 (629 posts) - - Show Bio

First off Mat, I totally respect you. I respect what you do and in no way do I think that your job is easy. That being said, I have to respectfully disagree with your 2 star rating. I enjoyed this issue. Now if I was reviewing this (which I have never wrote a review and probably never will) I would have gave it a 3 and a half stars. Seeing as you don't use half stars I would round it up to 4. I hope I didn't piss you off or anything. And if I did, sorry.

#26 Edited by dagmar_merrill (10073 posts) - - Show Bio

People really care about this book.

#27 Posted by TheMantisShrimp (281 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Mat, the only possible way you could not like this is that your drunk. The alternate possibility that Aquaman's presence in this title did not resonate with you, even when additionally considering this title has arguably lost some of its magic since Damien's death, is totally and completely 100% improbable.

#28 Posted by Jasoninthewoods (141 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaken7 said:

Oh please. Your complaints were nitpicky and your review is turning people away from the book. I doubt your low review score is justified, but the damage is done.

People can be turned away from a Bat book?

I didn't think that was humanly possible. ;)

#29 Posted by maruko101 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

IMHO the only saving grace of this issue is Aquaman. I liked this title a lot when Damian was alive, but certain pages in this issue makes me so sick and furious. With all the BS the five stages of grief they've put Batman through since last year and now this, I think I'm on the verge of dropping this title.

#30 Posted by inferiorego (27805 posts) - - Show Bio

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine. Art is subjective. Even critique the critique. That's cool too.

Just don't be a dick about it. It's a review. It's not like I set your house on fire.

#31 Posted by ProfessorNightmare (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm confused by this. I usually really respect and agree with Mat's review's but this one seems really lazy. The positives in the first paragraph completely contradict his own review score and his con's are pretty weak con's.

I agree that this comic was somewhat weaker than other Batman and "blank" issues. I'm disappointed that Tomasi wasted an opportunity for some deeper character moments between Bruce & Arthur, but the bombastic action element to it was pretty awesome.

#32 Posted by kennybaese (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: You might want to throw some of that stuff under a spoiler tag. If Mat felt the need to talk around it in his review, I'd consider it a spoiler.

#33 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34370 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

It's got a 9/10 on Newsarama.

I'll update later with more scores.

Or you could grow up maybe? These reviews don't exist to validate your opinion, they exist as away for the reviewer to get across his. It doesn't matter in the slightest if every single review on the face of the earth said it was the best book ever, if someone doesn't like it then they don't like it. End. Of. Story.

#34 Posted by kennybaese (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

While I think that not liking the way that Arthur looks in this book is totally valid, I think I'll just attribute his look in this book to Gleason's art style more than anything. I personally liked the beefier look, but then I've been watching a bunch of Brave and the Bold on Netflix lately, and Aquaman is built like a bruiser there too. Gleason's art in general takes pretty hard swings. Either it's drop dead gorgeous or pretty weird looking.

I'm just glad that this book is still doing the good work of connecting Morrison's run with the rest of the New 52 Batman continuity and continuing the story a bit. This was one of the weaker issues, but I still adore this book, flaws and all.

#35 Posted by LordoftheNorth (1365 posts) - - Show Bio

wait 2 stars? come on the book was fun the only things really wrong with it is that its a really fast read and at no point did Aquaman shout "OUTRAGOUS" i also liked how well they worked together they never agrued once about who was the leader or any of that nonsense that makes up 100% of their dialog in Justice League

Also Aquaman looks fine i dont know why that bothers you so much certain characters look different depending on the artist just look at batman and superman some times they look like gaint roid monsters and others they look like teenagers

#37 Edited by iceslick (806 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: The issue was actually good for me at least. I would have given a 3 or 3.5. I guess @inferiorego it just being the typical Mat...according to his tweet today it's him being drunk, Lol.

The art I believe was great and I like the relationship between Aquaman and Batman. It's just what they did with the clones was pretty stupid. I'm not sure if Mat agrees with me on this.

#38 Edited by z1co80 (178 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the junk this site/reviewers gives five stars is ludicrous and giving this 2/5 is every bit as ludicrous.

Although the reviewer is entitled to his opinion even if i think he is way off the mark.

#39 Edited by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

#40 Posted by illmatic4177 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear Batman fans are the most sensitive fans on earth, this was his opinion. Get over it.

#41 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34370 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

#42 Posted by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

That's what everyone said ever right before DC canceled their favorite book. I'm not saying Batman and... has any danger of being cancelled, but it's pretty frustrating seeing the amount of people who won't read it now. I'm not white knighting so much as shedding light on the truth (please take that less seriously than I'm afraid you're going to :P). It's not that I think a mob opinion is more valid, quite the opposite actually. I think the mob opinion is invalidly made up in reaction to the individuals' opinion. Now, said individuals' opinion is completely valid...if he kept it solely as his own. But speaking for the website, the community, and giving the book an official Comic Vine verdict is a little different. He has different responsibilities as a public reviewer, and needs to understand the weight his opinion carries.

And notice how I haven't said a positive thing about the book. I'm not acting like I've read it, I'm dissecting a seemingly unjustified set of complaints.

#43 Edited by TheMantisShrimp (281 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7, do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book that is about Batman to a large extent? I'm sure there is some proportion of people who consider reviews when buying books but of those how many people use a single review as a determining gauge of whether or not they will buy or not buy it. Do you really think that the small handful of people who commented that they will no longer buy the book because of the review is that many people relative to the amount who will buy it? Without some kind of survey and or large scale stats its fairly presumptuous of you predict how this review will affect sales, especially when we are talking about Batman sales.

Also I'm a huge Batman fan but after reading the last arc I cut this from my pull. It's certainly not bad but I was not very engaged in the story. Batman is a tough market right now because there is so much competition.

#44 Posted by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine. Art is subjective. Even critique the critique. That's cool too.

Just don't be a dick about it. It's a review. It's not like I set your house on fire.

I'm burning though! AAGGGHHHH!

You kinda set this book's house on fire though...

...'cause you flamed it.

#45 Posted by JakeN7 (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7, do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book that is about Batman to a large extent? I'm sure there is some proportion of people who consider reviews when buying books but of those how many people use a single review as a determining gauge of whether or not they will buy or not buy it. Do you really think that the small handful of people who commented that they will no longer buy the book because of the review is that many people relative to the amount who will buy it? Without some kind of survey and or large scale stats its fairly presumptuous of you predict how this review will affect sales, especially when we are talking about Batman sales.

Did you read past my first sentence? Because I clearly wasn't serious about it being cancelled, or its sales being affected in any tangible way. While every sale counts sure, this isn't going to affect the book's livelihood in the long run.

#46 Edited by TheMantisShrimp (281 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I was never under the impression nor insinuate you thought it was in trouble of being cancelled. I am wondering if you think Comicvine's review has the capacity to alter the sales of a Batman book to much of an extent. I do not mean alter enough to cancel. Your comment I was responding to describes people taking Mat's opinion too seriously but the only evidence of that is a small handful of comments. Again that number relative to the total book sales is virtually nothing.

#47 Posted by k4tzm4n (51200 posts) - - Show Bio

do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book

Replace "my" with "Comic Vine's" and voila! Joke!

Staff
#48 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34370 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

That's what everyone said ever right before DC canceled their favorite book. I'm not saying Batman and... has any danger of being cancelled, but it's pretty frustrating seeing the amount of people who won't read it now. I'm not white knighting so much as shedding light on the truth (please take that less seriously than I'm afraid you're going to :P). It's not that I think a mob opinion is more valid, quite the opposite actually. I think the mob opinion is invalidly made up in reaction to the individuals' opinion. Now, said individuals' opinion is completely valid...if he kept it solely as his own. But speaking for the website, the community, and giving the book an official Comic Vine verdict is a little different. He has different responsibilities as a public reviewer, and needs to understand the weight his opinion carries.

And notice how I haven't said a positive thing about the book. I'm not acting like I've read it, I'm dissecting a seemingly unjustified set of complaints.

So are you saying he should compromise his review because of the expectations of others?

#49 Edited by illmatic4177 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

I have not read it yet, and I usually not that critical so I may have rated it higher. But I think the only responsibility he has is to give his honest opinion.

#50 Posted by TheMantisShrimp (281 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: haha, what is Mat's midi-chlorian count?