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Posted by mandman (119 posts) 3 months, 3 days ago

Poll: Are you more interested in the New 52? (49 votes)

Yes, I love the 52 baby. 57%
No, I like my underpants on the outside, thank you. 39%
What's the new 52, did DC reboot their universe? 10%

So, after several years I think we can safely judge the DC relaunch. In your opinion what characters were better off after relaunch versus before?

Aquaman- Geoff Johns had already spent BN and BD on the character. but Flashpoint allowed him to sweep the last two decades of abuse away, BIG improvement.

Batman-More difficult to say. Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo keep knocking it out of the park, and Morrison was writing incorporated. The biggest victims were the supporting cast. BQM off of Batgirl, Paul Dini off of Catwoman and company. We also lost Red Robin by FN. I'd say the main Batman books maintained while the supporting titles like Batgirl and and Nightwing were downgrades. Catwoman started good with March and Winnick, so If I just take their year long run I'd say Catwoman was a not an improvement to the character overall.

Flash-Geoff Johns pre flashpoint reboot benefitted from decades of work by the top writers in the field. Post point he dumped flash to Manipul. I feel like going from that rich mythology for the rogues weapons being turned into themselves wasn't a good trade, so worse.

Green Lantern-Same, Johns sheltered the character from any serious changes while continuing so Lantern gets a wash.

Superman-Post flashpoint Superman proper is a mess. I think it had three different writers:Perez, Giffen, Jurgens in its fisrst year. Action had Grant Morrison though so yippee. Supergirl had Mike Green, and Superboy had two writers within the space of a year. Pre reboot, Supergirl had Kelly Deconnick, so Supergirl was a downgrade. Superboy had Jeff Lemire pre-boot so downgrade again. Action preeboot was by Cornell, who was honestly pretty awesome. So that is a wash. It all comes down to the main title. pre-boot had JMS and Roberson writing. I feel like this was better than the trio of writers who didn't seem to know what they were writing from day to day. I'd say Superman was a worse than before.

JLA- Pre-boot, James Robinson and his pets versus Geoff Johns and his pets. I feel like both writers underwhelmed, so artists. Jim Lee makes this a major upgrade. you could cover up every word ballon and it would still be awesome so, improvement.

Swamp Thing-Didn't have a title, one before was by Andy Diggle. Snyder did great job bringing swamp thing

back to the bayou. improvement

Wonder Woman- Pre-boot JMS and Phil Hester versus Azzerello. Surprisingly, I didn't dislike JMS' soft restart of Wonder Woman. Allot of Azzy's run is kind of foreshadowed. If you read 600 to 604 together, they are some of the most enjoyable Wondy comics since IC. That said, unlike Roberson, Hester never captured the spirit of what JMS was going for. So the pre-boot Wondy is rough to look at. On the other hand, Azzy's run is, incredible. eye pleasing art from my new quintessential character artist chiang. A revamped modern origin. A vastly improved supporting cast. And classic issues and stories. the biggest improvement.

Overall, I'd say the universe improved from before. But with the caveat that the characters that worked before were mostly broken if they weren't being worked on by Johns or Morrison. Batman is unique in that the main book improved with Snyder given an A list artist and creative control to tell stories, while the supporting cast was stripped of talent or had that talent shackled with editorial mandates that lowered quality. Overall, the batverse is weaker but Batman itself is better off. Further, Superman lost Morrison, but gained both Snyder and Lee. So the character is better off despite having lost its major creator.

#1 Posted by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

I meant Catwoman was no worse, sorry.

#2 Posted by danhimself (22628 posts) - - Show Bio

I still feel like the New52 was a bad idea and that they could have easily done something to bring in new readers and make the universe as a whole more accessible...plus the whole concept of rebooting to bring in new readers failed...sure it may have brought in new readers but how many old readers did they lose in the process...their sales are back down to where they were prior to the reboot and we lost a ton of great characters and character development in the process....I consider the whole thing a failure

#3 Posted by RiddlerZeroYear (178 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the New 52, for the most part. My biggest beef with it is the wonky timeline.

#4 Posted by VanderSEXXX (797 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the New 52, for the most part. My biggest beef with it is the wonky timeline.

THIS!!!

#5 Posted by Onemoreposter (4069 posts) - - Show Bio

Good stories come from good writers. There have been several good stories in the new 52. I loved Grant's Action Comics. I've been a huge fan of Tomasi's Batman and Robin. Azzerello's WW has been fun.

That said, a huge amount of continuity was thrown out the window and countless needless, contrived changes have been made to characters beloved by their fans.

All in all, I'd have preferred the hard reboot never have happened.

#6 Posted by SupBatz (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

At first, I was a big supporter of the relaunch, as it helped me first get into comics in a more active way (as opposed to buying one series pre-Flashpoint). But now that I've been going back and reading pre-Flashpoint stories, I honestly feel like the New 52 was a big mistake. Major disservice to SOOO many characters. Sure, the New 52 has (in theory, at least) made the DC Universe easier to follow for new readers. But it has done so at the expense of years of development for so many characters.

#7 Posted by The Stegman (25054 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say love, but I like it a lot.

#8 Posted by Xwraith (19379 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering the only DC book I'm reading is ending (to me, anyway), I'm less interested now.

#9 Posted by The Stegman (25054 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz said:

At first, I was a big supporter of the relaunch, as it helped me first get into comics in a more active way (as opposed to buying one series pre-Flashpoint). But now that I've been going back and reading pre-Flashpoint stories, I honestly feel like the New 52 was a big mistake. Major disservice to SOOO many characters. Sure, the New 52 has (in theory, at least) made the DC Universe easier to follow for new readers. But it has done so at the expense of years of development for so many characters.

I kinda wish they would have done with Marvel did and relaunched the titles with new number ones, start new storylines with new writers to get people interested again. They even had the perfect chance to do it after Brightest Day. Then again, I feel like Marvel only did Marvel NOW cause they saw the mistakes in the New 52, and learned what not to do.

#10 Edited by DatHomieSilverSurfer (297 posts) - - Show Bio

lol no apart from individual series that ran almost parallel to the rest of DC (animal man, swamp thing, red lanterns) I detest new 52 era DC. it was everything I disliked about what DC was doing before (childish/cliche writing hidden under the guise of being gritty/edgy/gory lol)

I could literally not make it past the first arc of Justice League bc it was so average. new52 DC just seems to pander to 14 year old male boyz and no one else. Or at least all of DCs main series are dull and hackneyed, IMO.

For the record, Marvel has been pretty shitty lately as well. Maybe they need a reboot...still, more books with mature writing on a subdued level, more realistic character interactions, motivations, etc...

#11 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: Which?

The Stegman, But then would series like Aquaman and Wonder Woman fit into continuity?

#12 Posted by Xwraith (19379 posts) - - Show Bio

@mandman: I'm dropping Green Arrow after the next issue, which is Jeff Lemire and Andrea Sorrentino's last (although it wasn't supposed to be that way).

#13 Edited by JakeN7 (12738 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: As much as I want to be mature, I can't stop pitching a fit about that.

#14 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: I'm sorry, I hope they at least closed the story off. After Catwoman went all bait and switched on me with winnick and nocenti, I have little confidence in the company's consistency. I purchase snyder's batman individually at this point because I don't know whether he'll be writing it or "writing it" with some scrub actually writing the issue. Pretty much I only get Batman and Wonder Woman now. I'm thinking of picking up Unchained in TPB because I got so burned by DC from the main Superman titles switching authors every week. Why is Arrow switching?

#15 Edited by w0nd (3719 posts) - - Show Bio

I still feel like the New52 was a bad idea and that they could have easily done something to bring in new readers and make the universe as a whole more accessible...plus the whole concept of rebooting to bring in new readers failed...sure it may have brought in new readers but how many old readers did they lose in the process...their sales are back down to where they were prior to the reboot and we lost a ton of great characters and character development in the process....I consider the whole thing a failure

Pretty much this, some of the changes were so weird and out there idk who sat down and though it was a good idea. Teen titans became a super mess. Superboy is alright but there is so much happening, which goes all the way back to teen titans. the list of odd things goes on. How many titles were actually canceled.

#16 Posted by Xwraith (19379 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: To be completely honest, it hurt even more than the EU being discontinued.

#17 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: Say what? when did this happen?

#18 Edited by longbowhunter (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

More interested in the New 52? I'm less interested than I was when it was first announced. Even though I was a big DC fan pre-Flashpoint, I was still really optimistic about the reboot. I won't bother voicing my complaints about the New 52 as it's old news. Let's just say I'm reading significantly less titles from DC than I was 5 years ago.

#19 Posted by Xwraith (19379 posts) - - Show Bio

@mandman: All of the old Star Wars Expanded Universe was removed from continuity back in May (so that it wouldn't conflict with the new movies).

But all of the stories released after the announcement are considered part of continuity.

#20 Edited by The_Tree (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

I started out somewhat interested, then I grew angry, and now I just don't give a f###. Throw a good comic my way and I'll read it.

#21 Posted by JakeN7 (12738 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: Agreed, especially since the EU thing could be seen for miles. That was expected.

#22 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8498 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say love, but I like it a lot.

I'd say this. Green Arrow is good, and Batman is still good. Supergirl has been "eh" to poor for me, which is why I don't have it on my pull list anymore.

#23 Edited by godzilla44 (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_tree said:

I started out somewhat interested, then I grew angry, and now I just don't give a f###. Throw a good comic my way and I'll read it.

#24 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

or

That's my opinion on that!

So Xwraith, they're deleting ALL the Zahn stories, but keeping the prequels?

The_Tree At what point did they lose you? The new 52 feels like a how to screw up guide.

#25 Posted by Manchine (4184 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Marvel would do what DC did. =)

#26 Posted by The_Tree (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@mandman: They never really lost me. There are good books and there are bad books; I just read the former and ignore the latter.

#27 Posted by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Tree

good philosophy, I just think the relaunch is finally in the mirror. Enough time has passed to view it like the Ultimates, Valiant,and other historical reboots. What works what didn't. I'm buying mostly indies and I'm wondering why, because I still like the characters from before. So I'm crowd sourcing with others. Trying to put it all in my head.

#28 Edited by SilverPool (1823 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it. My only issues with it are the weird timeline that exists since much of Bats and GLs continuity are intact. That and I feel as if without N52 Dick could still be Batman, which is something that was really short lived that I miss.

....oh and the new Wally west

#29 Posted by Mrnoital (2017 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: yeah I'm going to miss sorrentinos art in ga, but i'm staying optimistic and hoping the new guys wont ruin it

but lemire/sorrentino have another issue in september, its the futures end tie-in, i'll enjoys that last one

#30 Posted by GreatCaesarsGhost (3192 posts) - - Show Bio

I gave it a chance, liked it at first, lost interest.

#31 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

SilverPool Yeah, nuWally sucks. And before people talk about how he's now more diverse, Old Wally was a red head from the midwest with a korean wife and children, try finding anyone like that. Nuflash misses everything that I liked about the character, Geoff before hand tried to say how the Waid, Augystyn, Millar, Morrison era didn't have stories about speed. (I mean really, Morrison alone wrote a handful of speed centric stuff.)

#32 Posted by Xwraith (19379 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrnoital said:

@xwraith: yeah I'm going to miss sorrentinos art in ga, but i'm staying optimistic and hoping the new guys wont ruin it

but lemire/sorrentino have another issue in september, its the futures end tie-in, i'll enjoys that last one

I didn't count that one because it's not part of the main series.

#33 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12023 posts) - - Show Bio

I gave New 52 a shot because DC was always my home in the world of comics. Grew up on it and it's characters. But as the New 52 grew, my love for the company lessened. I will not drink the Kool-Aid that Dan Didio is forcing down their readers throats and be convinced that the New 52 is a positive thing. Are there some good things about the New 52? Yeah, like Lemire's Green Arrow and Azzarello's Wonder Woman but there's A LOT more wrong and bad with the New 52 and I will no longer be apart of that sinful concept.

#35 Posted by Mrnoital (2017 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: true, but it'll show what Lemire was hoping for ga in the future

sucks that they hired new guys to take ollie the liberal route, when it seemed like Lemire was already doing that

but whatever Sorrentino is doing next I'm likely to pick that one up

but Lemires JLU is pretty good so far

#36 Posted by Bsaa (710 posts) - - Show Bio

Why with all the complaints are over half saying yes? And why is it at 52%?

#37 Posted by dagmar_merrill (9492 posts) - - Show Bio

I gave New 52 a shot because DC was always my home in the world of comics. Grew up on it and it's characters. But as the New 52 grew, my love for the company lessened. I will not drink the Kool-Aid that Dan Didio is forcing down their readers throats and be convinced that the New 52 is a positive thing. Are there some good things about the New 52? Yeah, like Lemire's Green Arrow and Azzarello's Wonder Woman but there's A LOT more wrong and bad with the New 52 and I will no longer be apart of that sinful concept.

New 52 Wally is the best Wally. :P

Online
#38 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12023 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

I gave New 52 a shot because DC was always my home in the world of comics. Grew up on it and it's characters. But as the New 52 grew, my love for the company lessened. I will not drink the Kool-Aid that Dan Didio is forcing down their readers throats and be convinced that the New 52 is a positive thing. Are there some good things about the New 52? Yeah, like Lemire's Green Arrow and Azzarello's Wonder Woman but there's A LOT more wrong and bad with the New 52 and I will no longer be apart of that sinful concept.

New 52 Wally is the best Wally. :P

#39 Posted by Deathstroke52 (859 posts) - - Show Bio

I like The New 52.

#40 Posted by daredevil21134 (12116 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 Red Hood is awesome!!! Everything else is blah

#41 Posted by danhimself (22628 posts) - - Show Bio

everyone "LOVES" the New 52 until it's their favorite character being reintroduced and that character is nothing like how they were in the old universe....seriously look at the outcry when Lobo was reintroduced and when Wally was brought back....meanwhile all of us Superboy fans are sitting back welcoming people at the door

#42 Edited by Catsnlynne (1039 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked the New 52 when I first started reading DC, but then they started messing with the books I read and now, not all that happy with it.

#43 Posted by Homer_X (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

Its growing on me

#44 Edited by mandman (119 posts) - - Show Bio

danhimself the idea of Lois and Clark having a child is great, making it conner, eh. Mostly the execution was just bad.

Homer_X Like a bad rash? ;)

ArturoCalaKayVee Spot on, NuWally is hate. Makes me root for anti-life.

#45 Edited by Ms-Lola (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

It's made it a little difficult for a previous fan like me since I wasn't following from the New52's inception. Then again, I wasn't the most rabid DC follower before.

I like it well enough. I couldn't participate in the poll because there's no option for someone like me. I would have gotten back into DC with or without the reboot.

#46 Edited by Skulexander (102 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with comics nowadays, in my opinion, is that they try to be too serious. Too gritty. Too much drama. They don't have enough fun with themselves. They're not lighthearted enough. They're always trying to be serious. To be cool and edgy. It gets stale. The drama doesn't come from the characters' actions or circumstance. The writers force it in, and you can feel it.

#47 Posted by DatHomieSilverSurfer (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@skulexander: the problem isn't that they want to be gritty. It's that they want to be GRITTY and in the process come off as sophomoric and cliched.

"Oh no!!! Superman laser beamed a hole in the villains head accidentally! Brains splayed everywhere! Oh no, he's super crying. Cue angst! Now Wonder Woman is comforting him by doing what women do and sexing him right next to the body! Sexy and gory!" - current DC writing

#48 Edited by Rev_Sulphur (1196 posts) - - Show Bio

Only been into comics for the last two years so I absolutely love it.

#49 Edited by MadeinBangladesh (7390 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fine with the New 52. It's not horrible or amazing and I have only started reading when the New 52 started.

#50 Posted by MasterKungFu (1373 posts) - - Show Bio

N52 is great. Fresh start. Marvel should get a reboot too