Are people born morally good or bad ?

Avatar image for russcovito
Russcovito

149

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By Russcovito

I was recently asking myself this question when I compared some of my favorite comics heroes, on one hand Batman and on the other hand Flash, I said Flash but I could as well have said Superman for instance, I mean "Hope" in people. There is this episode in JLA that's entirely about The Flash and there is this scene where he is in the bar with Trickster, Wally is confident that he will turn himself in.. by himself,

something Batman would never do. We all know that Batman is ready for everything but why ? Is it because he is "only" human that he can't allow himself to trust people ? Is that why Flash and Superman do ? I mean the guy can fly, super speed and super hearing, sure he can allow himself to think that everybody is born morally good and just sometime we go wrong, but is that really so ? Do you think people are really afraid of Superman because he trust them too much ?

No Caption Provided

Not so long ago I read the Adventure Comics where Conner tries to understand Luthor, to understand if he is bad to the bone or not, I'm talking about the famous "Lex Giveth, Lex Taketh away" when he made her sister ill right after he cured her.

“Conner asks : Do you think it would've been different if Lex had grown up with your parents ?

No Caption Provided

So what do you think ? Is it possible that we are all born morally right ? Rousseau used to say that society only corrupts us. When I say morally right I'm thinking "boy scout" right, like the Cap' or Superman who for me are the incarnation of the people who do good. Kant define right (correct me if I'm wrong) by saying that if you do something to someone, you must be ready that somebody else could do it to you and you should accept it. So what do you think ?

Sources : The episode is Flash and Substance, It's the fifth episode of the fifth season of the Justice League TV Show; The first scan is from the seventh issue of Batman/Superman New 52, finally Adventure Comics Issue 1 (October 2009); ”Lex giveth, Lex Taketh Away“ is the sixth issue of the same series.

Avatar image for fallschirmjager
Fallschirmjager

23432

Forum Posts

1162

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 16

#2  Edited By Fallschirmjager

there's no such thing as right and wrong - only just and unjust. What you can justify and what you cannot. Superman would rarely if ever justify killing someone. Magneto sees himself as someone defending the existence of his entire race and will gladly kill every human being to ensure that.

and no one is born anything. it depends how you are raised. The whole Forever Evil basically proved that with Superman. Pa and Ma Kent = Superman. Two crack heads = Ultraman.

Avatar image for wolverine008
Wolverine008

51027

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#3  Edited By Wolverine008

Yo, yo. I'mma about to sound real philosophical right now. People are born blank, gray slates yo. They can be molded into anything from that point, and that's why kids are the future. They're pure.

Avatar image for deactivated-5edd330f57b65
deactivated-5edd330f57b65

26437

Forum Posts

815

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I would say wrong. People have to be told to do the right thing, but no one ever needs a lesson in doing wrong.

Avatar image for twix_right_side
Twix_Right_Side

2406

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

there's no such thing as right and wrong - only just and unjust. What you can justify and what you cannot. Superman would rarely if ever justify killing someone. Magneto sees himself as someone defending the existence of his entire race and will gladly kill every human being to ensure that.

and no one is born anything. it depends how you are raised. The whole Forever Evil basically proved that with Superman. Pa and Ma Kent = Superman. Two crack heads = Ultraman.

Good point.

Also lol at the last part

Avatar image for w0nd
w0nd

6806

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

morally? That's hard, but in most cases when a child is an infant you are telling it what is allowed and what not. They throw tantrums, hit, bite, and do what they feel is instinctual until you teach them not to. I know more than one baby who got mad and bit. I know for a fact the parents didn't teach it how to bite to cause pain, it just knew that was a thing that hurt people and they chose to do it because they were angry. If the parents didnt intervene and teach the children this is something you shouldnt be doing they would probably find new ways to hurt others when they are upset

Avatar image for black_arrow
Black_Arrow

10321

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

"There is good and there is evil, Evil must be punished".

Avatar image for black_arrow
Black_Arrow

10321

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

"There is good and there is evil, Evil must be punished".

there's no such thing as right and wrong - only just and unjust. What you can justify and what you cannot. Superman would rarely if ever justify killing someone. Magneto sees himself as someone defending the existence of his entire race and will gladly kill every human being to ensure that.

and no one is born anything. it depends how you are raised. The whole Forever Evil basically proved that with Superman. Pa and Ma Kent = Superman. Two crack heads = Ultraman.

Well in Forever evil when Ultraman was a baby he was evil because Jor El had passed him evil thoughts.

Avatar image for onemoreposter
Onemoreposter

4365

Forum Posts

103

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

To some extent....yes.

Avatar image for stardustcrusader
StardustCrusader

3148

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

We're just products of our environment.

Avatar image for deactivated-61bde0e570bb9
deactivated-61bde0e570bb9

3110

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Everyone starts out neutral. Not good, not bad, right in the middle. From their, you grow and align yourself based on your environment, your own life experiences, the values passed on from your parents, etc etc.

Avatar image for johnnyz256
JohnnyZ256

7095

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Not sure what is true in the comics, but in the real world, every person is born in sin. Also, every person is conceived in sin. Read Psalm 51:5 and 58:3 for God's take on the matter.

Avatar image for kgb725
kgb725

24239

Forum Posts

227

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 kgb725  Online

People are naturally curious

Avatar image for dratini1331
Dratini1331

7916

Forum Posts

238

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By Dratini1331

This is a Psychology debate that has been raging for generations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture

And while many people here seem to believe that you're not born in any specific way, that's not always true. While it's true that no one's entire life is dictated by their genes, it's also true that it's not entirely about their environment either. Realistically, you can be genetically predisposed to a good many mental health issues that can directly affect your life and personality. Many of the people we consider the most evil have been textbook cases of sociopaths, so to say there's no inherent or predisposed part of your person when you're born is, to me, a wrong statement.

While I certainly don't believe people are born good or bad, or anyone is ever entirely good or bad, I do acknowledge that people can have a pre-disposition to certain things from birth. I believe our personality is defined as strongly by our genes as it is by our lives in many cases.

Avatar image for russcovito
Russcovito

149

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By Russcovito

Thanks, everybody, but I think that there is a difference between the right/wrong of the society we live in, and it depends a lot on the place, for exemple, I'm half French and half Russian, racism is totally normal in Russia while it is morally wrong, even though people born deep inside the Russian culture can from themselves understand why it is wrong. So I think (so would Clark and Steve Rogers) that if you raise someone on "Earth 3" this someone would anyway be able to see what is wrong and what is right. At least I hope so.

Avatar image for deactivated-627010180bd2d
deactivated-627010180bd2d

10091

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Newborns are truly innocent. They have no concept of good or evil and therefore their thoughts actions are neither good nor bad.

Avatar image for jphu8414
Jphu8414

4044

Forum Posts

8566

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

I think people for the most part (barring mental illness, disease, autism, etc) are born morally neutral

Avatar image for eisenfauste
Eisenfauste

19633

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Talk to rousseau or hobbes about this, maybe even locke.

Avatar image for comicace3
comicace3

12438

Forum Posts

1465

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Tabula Rasa- Clean slate coined by the Philosopher John Locke, basically means everyone is born good until society affects who they become. Sounds reasonable.

But scientifically Entropy: Everything wants to go into chaos and you need to put energy into the world so it doesn't fall into chaos.

These terms could cause a debate. Its Science vs. Philosophy. I mostly go with science but what Locke says sounds reasonable.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
rogueshadow

30017

Forum Posts

237

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20 rogueshadow  Moderator

Universal morality doesn't exist.

Avatar image for chadkagan
Chadkagan

45

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Its not about good/bad, its about desire. According to Sigmund Freud, Everyone is born with an id, which is the part of the subconscious that only seeks desire. Later, we acquire the ego and superego. The superego is like the angel on the shoulder compared with the id being the devil. The ego is the part of the subconscious that weighs the id and superego and decides what to actually do. So, People aren't born naturally "evil" exactly, but they only act out of desire.

Avatar image for blackwind
BlackWind

9792

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By BlackWind

Does it matter?

All of humanity is being secretly controlled by advanced futuristic robot-human-alien hybrids anyway.

But seriously. Some people are just born messed up and show it before they hit 10.

Avatar image for russcovito
Russcovito

149

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By Russcovito

But seriously. Some people are just born messed up and show it before they hit 10.

Unfortunately there are many examples that show how right you are

Avatar image for flashback0180
flashback0180

4630

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By flashback0180

we are who we are , there is no good and bad.

the wild men in the woods of the Andaman islands think its right to kill and chase away anyone who approach their turf in the deep jungle .

each country thinks their war is the right war,

each person thinks he or she is pure and is right.

a guy sitting in an AC room with 4cars and all the comfort in the world thinks its wrong to kill even an ant.

while a guy in the desert would kill his own pet to save his family from starvation .

.

in the end its just perception how you as a person reflect by your actions and thoughts .

moral is something that's imposed its not something we are born with. everyone has their morals .

Avatar image for tommyjones1945
TommyJones1945

751

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

We are neither.

Avatar image for vmole
VMole

749

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Both nature and nurture have to be taken into account when shaping a person's behavior, but you have to remember that there is no universally set system of morality and some individuals are just naturally born bastards that can't be set straight.

Avatar image for superguy1591
Superguy1591

7539

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By Superguy1591

No one is born bad, society shapes us into who we become. People are born with mental disorders, but it doesn't make them bad. It just makes them unable to properly function in society.

To paraphrase Mr. Feeney: I have taught you all I have to teach, now go out into the world and do good.

I love that quote so much because it tells us that we learn to be good, then we teach it to future generations.

Avatar image for cgoodness
Cream_God

15519

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#28  Edited By Cream_God

nope, they are bad or good depending on the job their parents did

Avatar image for darthaznable
DarthAznable

16960

Forum Posts

361

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I say born neutral.

Avatar image for pikachumonster
pikachumonster

3123

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By pikachumonster

In the grand scheme of things.. I don't think there is such a thing as morality. On human terms, it is all situational. Depends on the culture..

Avatar image for deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79
deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

12104

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avatar image for russcovito
Russcovito

149

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@farkam said:

@rogueshadow said:

Universal morality doesn't exist.

That's not what Kant thinks, Kant says that an act is immoral if it's an exception, let's say if I kill someone, if I think it's a moral act then if someone else want to kill me, I have to let him. I know it's not a great example but that's all I got right now. So for the deontologist there actually is a universal morality

Avatar image for deactivated-097092725
deactivated-097092725

10555

Forum Posts

1043

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

I see it more as deviancy and conformity. When one ideal is set forward as the correct moral statute, there's a tendency to have an expectation of it being adhered to. Expectation usually doesn't give room for the possibility there being a problem for some people due to genetic predispositions for anti-social behaviours. Rather than address it, labels like right and wrong, evil and good and moral and immoral are placed on the individual and then it becomes a blame game. Was it the parents' fault? Was it his/her past that caused this? Or were they born evil?

I do believe actions have consequences and even in the face of "evil" actions, they should be applied to all regardless of genetic predisposition and/or environment they were raised in. I just wish more was done than just an expectation to adhere to social morality as a deterrent to deviant behaviour. Questions about nature/nurture are great but determining the answers shouldn't be the finish line. We should be doing more as a society to help people, preferably before their behaviour affects others. Once there are victims, the capability of understanding the why (or even the willingness to) is drastically lowered. That's the nature side of it, I guess.

I consciously choose to follow a moral set of rules which primarily focuses on not hurting others and this choice was made by critically assessing the possible opposite effects. You would think it's a no-brainer, but not really. I initially had a lot of thoughts about what was "owed" me and injustice and inequality and I was surprised by how much I tried to rationalize my selfish behaviour. I see myself as a good person and if I see myself as a good person, then how can I possibly be wrong about anything? Right? It was a hard thing to face but it helped me understand why some people do the things they do. If what I do/don't do doesn't victimize another person, then I feel very comfortable with myself, morally. I don't think my upbringing is solely the reason for this, I think it's my intelligence. I was educated and in a free country and have access to knowledge. This is what I consider the nurture side of things.

Avatar image for kyrees
kyrees

13625

Forum Posts

100

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34  Edited By kyrees

@russcovito said:

@farkam said:

@rogueshadow said:

Universal morality doesn't exist.

That's not what Kant thinks, Kant says that an act is immoral if it's an exception, let's say if I kill someone, if I think it's a moral act then if someone else want to kill me, I have to let him. I know it's not a great example but that's all I got right now. So for the deontologist there actually is a universal morality

the problem with that is that there is no universally accepted exception. what others perceive as immoral is not immoral to others.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
rogueshadow

30017

Forum Posts

237

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

@kyrees said:

@russcovito said:

@farkam said:

@rogueshadow said:

Universal morality doesn't exist.

That's not what Kant thinks, Kant says that an act is immoral if it's an exception, let's say if I kill someone, if I think it's a moral act then if someone else want to kill me, I have to let him. I know it's not a great example but that's all I got right now. So for the deontologist there actually is a universal morality

the problem with that is that there is no universally accepted exception. what others perceive as immoral is not immoral to others.

Took the words out of my mouth, even on our mundane human level, the variety of morals and duty is a vast one, the concept of some base metaphysical morality that permeates all of reality is inherently foolish, deontological ethics is both foolish and arrogant in nature.

Avatar image for army2442
Army2442

4876

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Universal morality exists and people are more inclined towards evil, we all say and do things we shouldn't and hurt those closest. The people we consider evil are just worse than we are (for example: captain cold though an awesome character is still bad even though he isn't as bad as say the joker).

Avatar image for faymousinus
Faymousinus

1275

Forum Posts

198

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

there's no such thing as right and wrong - only just and unjust. What you can justify and what you cannot. Superman would rarely if ever justify killing someone. Magneto sees himself as someone defending the existence of his entire race and will gladly kill every human being to ensure that.

and no one is born anything. it depends how you are raised. The whole Forever Evil basically proved that with Superman. Pa and Ma Kent = Superman. Two crack heads = Ultraman.

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Loading Video...

Avatar image for jacthripper
Jacthripper

15064

Forum Posts

80

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Morals are all about PoV

For the Punisher, he's in the right in his head, but not in anyone elses.

For Superman, he can't cross that line, while Wonder Woman will if she feels it is the right thing to do.

Its all a matter of perspective.

If there is a crackpot drug addict, but they wouldn't kill no matter what versus a person who hasn't even touched alcohol, but would kill if necessary, who do you root for? Its all perspective.

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Morals are all about PoV

For the Punisher, he's in the right in his head, but not in anyone elses.

For Superman, he can't cross that line, while Wonder Woman will if she feels it is the right thing to do.

Its all a matter of perspective.

If there is a crackpot drug addict, but they wouldn't kill no matter what versus a person who hasn't even touched alcohol, but would kill if necessary, who do you root for? Its all perspective.

It's that philosophy that allows people to like Hitler, Stalin, and Darth Vader to believe that what they are doing is justifiable. It's very easy to think your intellectual enough to know there is no good or evil until you see it.

Avatar image for jacthripper
Jacthripper

15064

Forum Posts

80

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41  Edited By Jacthripper

@acer51: Which is why we have bad politicians

But seriously, morals are about the eye of the beholder, but if your under attack, get off your @ss and fight back! Or at least run. Thats always an option.

Avatar image for juliedc
JulieDC

1286

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By JulieDC

Well the existence of sociopaths with the inability to sympathize or feel remorse towards people makes me believe that people can be born bad. However, I am also a big believer in the nurture side of the nature vs. nurture debate. I think the environment one lives in can bring the worst out in people. Some people may be born with the inclination towards doing bad things but its only through their experiences in life that they act upon those impulses.

Avatar image for redbird3rdboywonder
redbird3rdboywonder

7158

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Good and evil, Just and unjust are merely subjective terms that are defined by what someone or what society has taught us to believe.

Here is a better question that Lelouch from Code Geass proposed

What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil? Or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil?

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@acer51: Which is why we have bad politicians

But seriously, morals are about the eye of the beholder, but if your under attack, get off your @ss and fight back! Or at least run. Thats always an option.

.

Morality is a point of view, so feel free to go have sex with your cow murder ten people with a shovel and then cut off your wife's nipples of with a cheese grater because women exist for two things, sex and food. That is you eat their flesh raw when you decide you have no more use for them.

Because morals are about the eye of the beholder whoever does this should be called a saint.

And if the Nazi's are attacking you go ahead and pick up a gun to help them if you feel like it.

Avatar image for retrochaos
RetroChaos

59

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

People are obviously born morally neutral - you can't be born and instinctively have good or bad intentions, it depends on your upbringing. It's just like how you can't be born gay or straight, you can only be born asexual as not only is sexuality developed later on at around 5 years, but it also depends on upbringing.

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@redbird3rdboywonder: You remain steadfast in your righteousness even if it means surrendering to that evil.

Matthew 5:39

38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…

Avatar image for redbird3rdboywonder
redbird3rdboywonder

7158

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@acer51: no matter what you do though evil remains

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0