Are no-kill codes outdated?

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sinestro_GL

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Killing has always been, and will always be illegal.

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Chronus

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#102  Edited By Chronus

Yes.

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Betatesthighlander1

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@sc said:

No, simplistic black and white codes are outdated.

What heroes kill demons? Robots? Accidentally killed insects? Eat meat? Yet still have no kill policies no matter what? As long as they fit certain criteria? I don't kill cows, but I am okay with them being killed and buying products that have their delicious meat in them. Since I do that I would also kill a cow if I had to to feed myself and others. Many comic book characters live in worlds and universes with diversity, scale, types and quantity of life that makes our own reality look barren. So really codes to do with defining life, defining rights, defining morality and ethics, defining the right thing to do, in various situations, and defining the necessity of overruling the rights of some over the rights of others. Well a yes or no answer isn't enough for me. I expect similar of others and especially those that label themselves heroes.

that's a really good point, I pretty much agree with everything there

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BlueLantern1995

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#104  Edited By BlueLantern1995

Yes and no. I mean with Batman its a little to ridiculous and his not killing Joker makes him in a sense a aider and abetter of his psycho killings. Just because Batman's my favorite doesn't mean I can't see the fact.

I thing what I mean is best summarized in the following statement.

I mean that's the take the Marvel Movies are doing. Captain America killed a couple of people in Avenger

Yes. Rigid No-Kill Codes are far outdated.

Look at a real hero like, say, Commissioner Gordon. A man with no powers at all, but still determined to fight crime against a superior breed of criminal, in order to defend the good people of Gotham. What does Gordon's Code, the Code which applies to all Peace Officers, state. "Minimum force nessesary to overcome resistance and defend life." Those are the magic words that police officers swear by.

A good person doesn't go willy-nilly killing everyone who opposes them. We're not talking Punisher style Always-Kill codes. We're talking about, if it's the only way to save a life, if a choice has to be made, then the choice is simple: good guy lives and bad guy dies.

Our real life police officers abide by a code that permits killing when necessary. Shooting some nutball who's got a sniper rifle on a college campus murdering people does not make your local police officer a villain; it makes him a hero. Those rigid, inflexible codes from people like Batman are not just outdated, but they quite literally get dozens of innocent people killed every year.

Captain America doesn't kill every single villain he fights, but when he has to in order to save lives, he's not afraid to pick up a gun and put the bad guy in a grave. Cap is not some vigilante or villain; he's a good man defending innocent people. Killing doesn't inherently make one evil; killing innocent people does.

Batman's (and all other) No Kill Codes are entirely a selfish thing. Batman does not care how many people the Joker murders in the future. Batman does not regard the widowed women who lost their husbands unnecessarily, or the grieving parents who found their children slaughtered at the hands of a lunatic. Batman only cares about Batman. And whenever Batman is asked about his No Kill Code, he admits as much. "I can't kill because of what it would do to me", regardless of what it does for others.

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blackadamFTW

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I don't think so. Take the Nolan Batman movies for example. They are basically based on Batman's "no kill" code, and it works.

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roboadmiral

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#106  Edited By roboadmiral

Killing has always been, and will always be illegal.

The legality is irrelevant. Superheroes, by their very premise, are illegal. It's the acknowledged gap between legality and morality. Whether it's legal or not is not the question.

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PCN24454

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#107  Edited By PCN24454

@blackadamftw:

Actually they're about how impractical his no kill rules are.

In the comics, Batman would save Joker's life.

In the movies, he's aware that saving someone that's trying to destroy an entire city and would likely do it again if he got the chance is really a stupid thing to do.

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Yung ANcient One

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I don't think the "no-kill code" is outdated. I think there is a time and a place for everything, and we need heroes to have that "no-kill code" but at the same time we do need an executioner. We also need to succumb that doesn't mean succumb to one thing, I mean succumb to defeat or to killing.

Uncanny X-Force(Remender's) touched on this subject quite a bit since they were basically a X-Men Black Ops team dedicated to killing to save millions. Situations presented of killing a child to save billions, killing a sibling to save billions, killing a son to save billions, and killing for revenge. For me I love the Uncanny X-Force.

( + )

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GunGunW

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#109  Edited By GunGunW

Not for Superman or Batman, no.

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MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

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There is too much killing in the media it makes us as a society indifferent to the killing of others.

Exactly. I was watching a coverage of the Boston bombings a while back on youtube, and there was a comment where I guy said "it's only 3 deaths". I mean I was like wow has society really gotten used to the idea of death?

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TheCowman

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#111  Edited By TheCowman

I'd love to see a "What-If" story that had Bruce Wayne watching the Joker's trial on TV and when the judge announces the death penalty, he just throws his hands up in the air and gives an exasperated, "FINALLY!!"

I really find it hilarious that people can actually keep a straight face while saying that Batman is responsible for all the Joker's victims because he won't murder him. Batman catches these guys and delivers them, gift-wrapped, for the proper authorities. Why aren't they equally responsible? The courts are just as aware of the Joker's continued threat to innocent lives. Why don't they just fry him? They can do that legally. And I'm sure that Batman wouldn't lift a finger to stop it.

I find it strange that many people seem to LIKE the idea of some mysterious, unknown person executing their own idea of justice. For me, that would be really unnerving.

And criminals HAVE died fighting the likes of Batman and Superman. Supes just hasn't ever defeated someone and then said, "y'know what? I think yer too dangerous to live, so I'm going to heat vision your face off in cold-blood".

I don't have a problem with heroes who kill, but I also think that heroes who don't should always be around.

And, as someone mentioned earlier, the REAL reason that many heroes don't kill is because they need to keep the popular villains around to sell comics.

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JediXMan

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#112 JediXMan  Moderator

...

A little. I recently watched Superman vs the Elites. Now, don't get me wrong: I don't want to see Superman killing people. But the Elites were doing as the public wanted and what the government appeared to be leaning toward. Who is Superman to pass judgement on them? I just felt like he turned the heroes into villains. For the most part, I really found myself siding with the Elites.

Moral of that movie is: killing is bad, but forced legitimization is totally fine.