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#1 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

they are both human and have no super powers so are they superheroes? do the tools and methods they use make them superheroes?

#2 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think so. Batman at least. His skills and abilities put him far beyond normal humans and even normal heroes. He's even considered peak human in a lot of things and has showings that appear superhuman sometimes.

#3 Posted by The_Martian (36980 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't usually think so. I usually consider someone without powers just a hero.

#4 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

While they don't possess powers per se, they have pushed themselves to a point were they achieve superhuman feats.

#5 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84631 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldnt consider the Punisher a superhero, he doesnt get into alot of battle against superpowered foes (sometimes) but Batman fights along side the JLA and they take on everything from aliens, to demons, so I would say Batman fits the description of a superhero.

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#6 Posted by Doomhunter (289 posts) - - Show Bio

I think their methods and tools give them some digree of "superheroness"...

#7 Posted by MuadDib (30 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce Wayne is a man. Batman is a superhero. As above mentioned, Batman has battled foes that possess superhuman abilities and triumphed.

#8 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a superhero. Punisher is a tool.

That's my little opinion.

#9 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Batmans is a superhero without a doubt.

Punisher is a vigilante. I don't rate him a superhero.

#10 Posted by Li'l T-bo (145 posts) - - Show Bio

But is Batman a SUPERhero? Or a hero?

THIS IS SUB-ZERO! NOW.....PLAIN ZERO!

#11 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

What was jesse ventura's characters name? Captain ?????

#12 Posted by Li'l T-bo (145 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhh.....Captain Freedom? Yea just googled it -- Captain Freedom.

What happened to Buzzsaw? HE HAD TO SPLIT.

#13 Posted by Li'l T-bo (145 posts) - - Show Bio

Richard Dawson should have done more movies.

#14 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Only in a re-run

#15 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Only in a re-run

#16 Posted by MuadDib (30 posts) - - Show Bio

So we all decided that Batman is a superhero, however Punisher is not? Just trying to get closure on the matter.

#17 Posted by Ms. Invisible (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

MuadDib says:

"So we all decided that Batman is a superhero, however Punisher is not? Just trying to get closure on the matter."

Perhaps the term "superhero" makes people automatically think someone who does things by the book. I don't think Punisher does, but Batman would probably be more "civilised".
Post Edited:2007-07-09 07:13:50

#18 Posted by Iron Apollo (2191 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a Superhero because of his uncanny intelligence, both are super heroes becuse of their thirst for vengance and inability to go to jail, or stay their for very long.

#19 Posted by fesak (7032 posts) - - Show Bio

There's the term Anti-Hero (which i hate) but it would describe people like Punisher.

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#20 Posted by Iron Apollo (2191 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"There's the term Anti-Hero (which i hate) but it would describe people like Punisher."

and the Batman if you get techical, they say he's actually crazier than most they people in arkham

#21 Posted by asylum (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither of them are heroes. A hero is someone that you respect. Someone that you look up to and would like to imitate. The newer darker batman is not one of these people nor is the punisher.

A Hero is someone like Spider-man or Captain America. They fight bad guys and then put them in jail. End of story. An anti-hero is someone who may try to do righteous things but does them in ways that is immoral. Vigilantes are in between.

They way the punisher fights crime is wrong. He goes in and kills everyone. Even if they are unarmed and or they surrender. At that point he has committed murder.

Batman, on the other hand, has no problem with beating the crap out of some goon just to get information. How many times has he hang a bad guy over a building and threatened to let him go.

These are not acts of heroes. Heroes don't kill bad guys they don't have to and they don't torture them. Batman is a vigilante and the punisher is an anti-hero.

P.S. They're still cool.

#22 Posted by Ms. Invisible (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

asylum says:

"Batman, on the other hand, has no problem with beating the crap out of some goon just to get information. How many times has he hang a bad guy over a building and threatened to let him go."

That is the question: how many times?

#23 Posted by TimeKeeper (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Nate says:

"I don't usually think so. I usually consider someone without powers just a hero."

Nicely put. I'm going with that. Batman has done nothing that is impossible for others to do. He has a crapload of money, and he's used it to his advantage to fight crime. It could POTENTIALLY be done by anyone with money. That, to me, makes him just a hero. Superman and Spider-Man are SUPERheroes. Punisher sucks. He's just some guy who’s trigger happy and out for revenge! ANYONE can do that!!

#24 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

But then Batman isn't averagely intelligent, he's quite the genius really and he does claim to be the world's greatest detective so wouldn't that make him superior to other humans. Since that's the current favourite of a superhero, to me that makes Batman one. Punisher I know nothing about other than Molly punched him and almost made him cry :D

#25 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman may 'beat the crap' out of people, but he doesn't (usually) do it to get information. It's unlikely that a thief is going to sit down and discuss his criminal dealings over a civilized cup of darjeeling is it? Of course he has to restrain his targets with force, because he doesn't kill and he doesn't have the raw power Superman has or webbing like Spidey. He needs people to be afraid of him to work effectively, dangling someone over the edge of a building is much scarier if you believe the person holding you will drop you. It's not like Superman (and probably many other flying heroes) haven't used the same tactic, it's just more effective for Batman.

He's also not a vigilante. A vigilante takes crime fighting into his own hands with no legal authority. As Batman is part of the JLA, which itself has government ties, it is likely that he does have some (though it's never been stated how much) legal authority to do what he does.

Bottomline, Batman's a hero who gets his hands dirty.

#26 Posted by fesak (7032 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a problem when people calls Wolverine or Spawn heroes. What kind of hero has a kill count of 1000+ ,even if it's mostly bad guys.

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#27 Posted by TimeKeeper (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

This all brings up a good question: Are Iron Man, Steel, War Machine and Dr. Doom superheroes then? Batman is supposedly the world's greatest detective, but Doom taught himself physics and all that jazz, up to incomprehensible levels, is a brilliant strategist, can change minds with others, and made his own suit of armor! But he has no actual super powers that no one else could possibly attain, like Superman. Doom achieved all he has by learning/teaching himself. So is he a supervillian or simply a villian?

#28 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

In Doom's case, he also has magical abilities. I suppose others could attain those too, but then you start calling into question other magic based heroes like Zatanna or Dr. Strange. You could extend the logic of Iron Man and Steel to Green Lanterns as well, since their ring is just a piece of advanced alien tech. My reasoning is that that tech is advanced beyond anything available to the general public and allows them to achieve superhuman feats, which allows them the mantle of superhero.

#29 Posted by TimeKeeper (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool.

#30 Posted by Iron Apollo (2191 posts) - - Show Bio

hero is in the eye of the beholder

#31 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

asylum says:

"Batman, on the other hand, has no problem with beating the crap out of some goon just to get information. How many times has he hang a bad guy over a building and threatened to let him go."

I have no problem with this kind of tactic. Call it torture if you will, but if an evil person suffers a little psychological damage (however permanent) in order to save the lives of others, I consider it well worth the effort.

Tell me you wouldn't seriously consider giving up your life of crime if someone like Batman (who could likely easily track you down again) dangled you off of a tall building. Punisher, on the other hand, allows no space for reform, his enemies just end up as fertilizer.

#32 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman: yes.

Punisher: no.

#33 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

An anti-hero isn't really a hero, while they may have a positive effect (though that's debatable), they achieve their ends by means that are little better than the crimes they fight.

#34 Posted by zero edge (3692 posts) - - Show Bio

asylum says:

"Batman, on the other hand, has no problem with beating the crap out of some goon just to get information. How many times has he hang a bad guy over a building and threatened to let him go.These are not acts of heroes. Heroes don't kill bad guys they don't have to and they don't torture them. Batman is a vigilante and the punisher is an anti-hero.P.S. They're still cool."

Batman doesn't just fight crime, he saves people too. His main priority is always to save people, and that makes him a hero.
Post Edited:2007-07-09 11:52:38

#35 Posted by asylum (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Apollo says:

"hero is in the eye of the beholder"

When it all comes down to it I guess you are right.

#36 Posted by Agent355 (66 posts) - - Show Bio

You have to consider them superheroes because of their body of work.  They've taken on so many powerful villains.  And they get results unlike Superman and Spider-man.

#37 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
once a long time ago bats was an anti hero and he still semi boarders that but, i call him more of a hero then anything..

punisher on the other hand is a anti hero/criminal/murderer although he kills only guilty ppl he has on occasion accidently guilt innocent ppl aside from that he is a righteous individual he just happens to live in the wrong era otherwise he would have bn looked up to,  respected and even considered a hero if he lived in the wild west.

#38 Posted by NightFang (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman a superhero but the Punisher is an anti-hero.

#39 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

None of them are actually super in any way, but they make great heroes

#40 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

They're both anti-heroes

#41 Posted by CPTSteve (43 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cosmic Sentinel said:
"

My reasoning is that that tech is advanced beyond anything available to the general public and allows them to achieve superhuman feats, which allows them the mantle of superhero.

"
By this definition, it would seem to put Bats back in the Super category with all his various toys.  You can debate hero until the end of time, and how does that change with the new Batman - but if tech makes you Super, Bats qualifies.
#42 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
@CPTSteve said:
"@Cosmic Sentinel said:
"

My reasoning is that that tech is advanced beyond anything available to the general public and allows them to achieve superhuman feats, which allows them the mantle of superhero.

"
By this definition, it would seem to put Bats back in the Super category with all his various toys.  You can debate hero until the end of time, and how does that change with the new Batman - but if tech makes you Super, Bats qualifies."

wouldnt Punisher qualify too? he has gadgets
#43 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman I would consider to be a hero. He rises above and beyond to protect the innocent,and sets a standard for Gotham City.
Punisher on the other hand...I don't think he's a hero,but then again,I don't think gun toting characters in general are heroes.

#44 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
@ARMIV said:
"Batman I would consider to be a hero. He rises above and beyond to protect the innocent,and sets a standard for Gotham City.Punisher on the other hand...I don't think he's a hero,but then again,I don't think gun toting characters in general are heroes."

The Lone Ranger wasnt a hero?
#45 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rothschild said:
" @ARMIV said:
"Batman I would consider to be a hero. He rises above and beyond to protect the innocent,and sets a standard for Gotham City.Punisher on the other hand...I don't think he's a hero,but then again,I don't think gun toting characters in general are heroes."
The Lone Ranger wasnt a hero? "
I don't really think so.
I mean the guy had some great intentions,but guns to me just kinda seem to defeat the purpose...
That is,unless one is in the armed forces.
#46 Posted by Rothschild (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
@ARMIV said:
"@Rothschild said:
" @ARMIV said:
"Batman I would consider to be a hero. He rises above and beyond to protect the innocent,and sets a standard for Gotham City.Punisher on the other hand...I don't think he's a hero,but then again,I don't think gun toting characters in general are heroes."
The Lone Ranger wasnt a hero? "
I don't really think so.I mean the guy had some great intentions,but guns to me just kinda seem to defeat the purpose...That is,unless one is in the armed forces."

So Swords or energy blasts or super human strength make you a hero?
#47 Posted by ARMIV (4140 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rothschild said:
" @ARMIV said:
"@Rothschild said:
" @ARMIV said:
"Batman I would consider to be a hero. He rises above and beyond to protect the innocent,and sets a standard for Gotham City.Punisher on the other hand...I don't think he's a hero,but then again,I don't think gun toting characters in general are heroes."
The Lone Ranger wasnt a hero? "
I don't really think so.I mean the guy had some great intentions,but guns to me just kinda seem to defeat the purpose...That is,unless one is in the armed forces."
So Swords or energy blasts or super human strength make you a hero? "
It's not the tools,but what they're used for.
And I personally don't view guns as a heroic trait for any one man/woman vigilante.
#48 Posted by RavagingHamster (836 posts) - - Show Bio

id say batman tentivly yes, punisher is more of an anti hero.
#49 Posted by ComicStooge (12061 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a Super hero
 
Punisher is a bad ass...

#50 Edited by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if you can go toe to toe with a super villain and win w/out powers, than its fair to call yourself a superhero (at least in Batman's case).  I see The story of The Punisher as a tragedy rather than a hero's tale. The man lost everything he had, and has inner demons which rule every aspect of his life.