Anyone else upset by how weak the MCU movie characters are?

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deaditegonzo

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@jayc1324 said:

@deaditegonzo: Ah, yes we are getting somewhere.

Friday says that just cracking the vibranium won't be enough but I don't see how that means that Thor is too weak to destroy the city. He just wouldn't vaporize it. Did Tony really think that thor destroying the core and letting it fall would be a good plan? Tony would not suggest something like that. It makes way more sense that Friday was saying that the city would fall in too large pieces just from Thor hitting the core. Tony's plan of the atomic action doubling back sounds to me like him doubling back the power created by Thor's hit. The city falls in tiny pieces due to the atomic action doubling back as opposed to big pieces from only Thor's hit. I don't see anything to say otherwise.

Yes Thor was incapable of vaporizing the city, but not of just destroying it. Its never stated he's too weak to destroy it, just that he can't vaporize it, which makes sense considering a blunt hammer strike can't vaporize a city. The atomic action doubling back was needed to vaporize it.

Herein lies the part I was saying about speculating.

Tony may not have been able to run the calculations necessary to say what Thor's strike would do, which is why he ran it by Friday. Also, he may very well be thinking out loud, working through the process. But either way, just because Tony's suggestion sounded illogical doesn't mean it meant something different.

If you take the dialogue as it is written, it is pretty direct:

Tony: It's (part?) vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it....

Friday: It'll crack. That's not enough. The impact would still be devastating.

Thor can do no more than crack the vibranium. Cracking the vibranium means that the when island "impacts" it will cause ridiculous damage.

Tony: Maybe I could cap the other end. Keep the atomic action doubling back.

Friday: That could vaporize the city. And everyone on it.

This part clearly says that the atomic action could vaporize the city. As in [The atomic action] could vaporize the city. Now, if you believe the dialogue was simply written poorly, or that there is some hidden meaning, I guess thats fine, but the dialogue tells us exactly what happened. Also, it is shown in the movie before that Thor striking vibranium causes massive destruction. A) In the forest in Avengers 1 B) Thor, on multiple occasions, hits caps shield, instead of the ground or something else, to take out a group of enemies (like in the forest during the opening sequence of AoU, when he smacks Caps shield and it bulldozes the tank and soldiers).

If we want to speculate, I can get into the fictional physics that have been explained to us, as I see it. Namely the fact that the way vibranium works is that disperses energy outward away from itself (why Cap was able to hide under the shield from Thor's strike). In a closed cylinder, based on how vibranium is said to work, Thor's energy is dispersed, but it has nowhere to go, so it bounces back into the vibranium, making the vibranium vibrate at an even higher frequency and launching the energy away at even great force over and over again until the built up energy is too great and it vaporizes everything. Think about a trampoline, when everyone is jumping just right, the amount of bounce keeps getting greater and greater, and the interaction begins to sustain itself without the jumpers needing to exert additional energy. < This is ALL SPECULATION, it is not outright stated in the movie. The movie only tells us that Thor cannot destroy the Island, that his cracking the vibranium stabilizer would only cause the island to impact with devastating results, and that the atomic action destroyed the island. But if we want to have a speculative discussion about the fictional reason Tony's plan worked, thatd be my answer.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@deaditegonzo: Too little information is given to say that Friday was saying that Thor couldn't destroy the city. You see it as Friday saying that it would just destroy the core and allow the city to fall. I see it as Friday saying that the city would be destroyed but would still fall in large enough pieces to cause death. There's nothing to prove it either way but your version of tony suggesting Thor just drops the city makes less sense than my version.

I like your explanation of the fictional physics of him hitting the vibranium core and it makes sense in this fictional world. I can agree that that is likely what happened, and I say likely because like you said this is just speculation.

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deaditegonzo

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@jayc1324 said:

@deaditegonzo: Too little information is given to say that Friday was saying that Thor couldn't destroy the city. You see it as Friday saying that it would just destroy the core and allow the city to fall. I see it as Friday saying that the city would be destroyed but would still fall in large enough pieces to cause death. There's nothing to prove it either way but your version of tony suggesting Thor just drops the city makes less sense than my version.

I like your explanation of the fictional physics of him hitting the vibranium core and it makes sense in this fictional world. I can agree that that is likely what happened, and I say likely because like you said this is just speculation.

You are very open minded, and that is very much appreciated. This was overall a positive discussion for me, so thank you!

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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14NC3

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#105  Edited By 14NC3

@jedixman said:

Contrary to popular belief, writers don't make their characters for the battle forums. They write them for the story, and to be acceptable for a broad audience. Powerful =/= a good movie, which is why TDK and the Winter Soldier are hailed as the best, while Thor and MoS are not.

This. Although I don't think this is why Man of Steel is considered a bad film and why The Dark Knight is praised.

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JediXMan

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#106  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

@14nc3 said:
@jedixman said:

Contrary to popular belief, writers don't make their characters for the battle forums. They write them for the story, and to be acceptable for a broad audience. Powerful =/= a good movie, which is why TDK and the Winter Soldier are hailed as the best, while Thor and MoS are not.

Although I don't think this is why Man of Steel is considered a bad film and why The Dark Knight is praised.

It's not. It was just to reinforce the point that having powerful characters does not necessarily make a good movie.

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kyrees

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#107  Edited By kyrees

Lots of great opinions here, but nobody has addressed the lack of a menacing, truly terrifying villain. Loki so far was the only interesting and well written character. Was Ronan, Maliketh or Zod really suitable to stand next to the likes of Darth Vader in awesomeness? Absolutely not. I never felt excited once in any of the recent Marvel or Dc movies, none of them had great stories, seeing Ronan and Drax so weak, Thor having trouble with a boulder and Superman getting stunned by a metal construction Ibeam is pathetic to me. Has nothing to do with the quality of the movie, just upset as to how severely they humanized them. What good is making a super hero movie is nobody is really super at all? Sure, I am complaining a lot, I did enjoy the movies a lot, but not at how badly they warped the stories. Odin being 6,000 years old and having trouble with dark elves and other dumb things like that, things changed for no reason that anyone can explain.

i feel it's about time to up this with thanos completing the IG. there's now a main villain that is truly menacing. though in the context of the topic, thanos with IG is only comparable to his comic counterpart on how it will take everyone else to take him down accordingly.

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solar_nerd

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If it's popular, ComicVine finds something they hate about it. That's all I can say.

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solar_nerd

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This is a problem in every superhero movie and TV show.

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StMichalofWilson

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If the studio won't afford the budget, they have to work with what they got.

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deactivated-5c607e387a408

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And yet whenever they do get good feats no one accepts them ?

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dirtytree332

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#113  Edited By dirtytree332

Yes. Feats are a priority, and without them you can't take a story or character seriously.

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kgb725

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If the studio won't afford the budget, they have to work with what they got.

Don't need a big budget for most high end feats

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jashugan

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Not so weak anymore, huh?

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anthp2000

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#116 anthp2000  Moderator  Online

Directors and writers of the MCU have repeatedly stated that they want their characters to posses a degree of realism that the comicbook versions lack.

And apparently, it plain works that way. I don't think it'd be so cool to watch action sequences with utterly unrealistic power and skillsets. The characters are still incredibly superhuman by RL standards, the very best fighters IRL would be the higher end canon fodder in the MCU, that much is clear.

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DarkPsychicLord_Prime

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They have improved quite a lot since this thread was made.

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DrPepperMan

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In ever movie, Thor has at least one super moment.

Thor: jotunheim.

Avengers: Leviathans.

Thor TDW: Malekith slam.

AoU: Sokovia.

Ragnorak: Gladiator fight, WECOMEFRUMDALANDOFDEICEANDSNOW

IW: pretty much everything.

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DarkDementor101

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#119  Edited By DarkDementor101

With endgame out now I wonder if it is fine to revive this thread!

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Darkthunder

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Nah. I think the op is an MCU fan who lost a debate with a dceu fan. The only why dceu people seem powerful is because of the interaction with environment which MCU doesn't stress on. Shockwaves or statued people or Mach cones, most of the CV community tend to think that these are actual feats of power. Well,even MCU captain marvel is hypersonic as she was keeping up with kree ships,she is even light speed but she never statued anyone. Though you can statue a most of the people (speedster exception). Or thanos is strong enough to deal with high tiers of dceu. Just because his physical attacks have no environmental impact like shockwaves etc doesn't mean his striking power is weak. He took down the hulk faster than Thor,who is comparable to superman.

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kgb725

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The mcu would wash the dceu in an all out battle. I think the dceu has more impressive eye test feats but mcu has way more hax and variety especially if you factor in AOS

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chuggachugga170

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this post hasnt aged well has it

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Wilkiins17

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Well

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Kairan1979

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MCU did a great disservice to Hulk.

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