#1 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking about what Joker said about people, and how, we will all turn on one another if given an opportunity, despite how civilized we claim to be. And he was right. Bane destroys a stadium, killing countless innocents, then brings out a Nuclear bomb, killing the only person able to disarm it. And what happens? People turn on the Cops and the wealthy because of a lie. Joker probably gave himself a pat on the back for being right, then went off to get a job.

#2 Posted by acer51 (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course he's right, people are horrible, but he allows this to be an excuse to carry out his horrendous acts. The Dark Knight pushes himself to better.

#3 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@acer51: I agree. I thought of this because so many people asked about the Jokers whereabouts during Rises. I was like..Costco? Lol

#4 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely. "I'll show ya. When the chips are down, these, uh, these 'civilized' people ... they'll eat each other." That is a powerful and meaningful quote. It also pertains to certain moments in history. The early 20th century, for instance. The "chips" refer(s) to the economy and economics. We saw what happened when hyperinflation, double-digit unemployment and the Great Depression hit Germany in the 20s and the 30s. Nevertheless, people continue to compete with, discriminate against, oppress and attack each other. Of course, human nature is rather irrational and inexplicable.

Bane showed how easy it is to manipulate the masses. It's similar to how certain dictators in the past have manipulated the masses. Mussolini and Hitler, for instance. It's also interesting because The Dark Knight Rises was influenced by the themes of the French Revolution and the book, A Tale of Two Cities. Of course, these themes are very realistic, and all of that socioeconomic unrest is alluded to.

These are interesting topics.

#5 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@edamame: I never realized just how much I loved the entire series until recently. I think Arrow's finale set it off.

#6 Edited by JulieDC (893 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always felt that when it comes to the Joker the problem isn't what he is saying, its what he is doing.

#7 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@juliedc: Do you believe Joker to be insane? Because sometimes I wonder.

#8 Posted by JulieDC (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil83: that is a good question. I can see him interpreted as being both depending on the writer. Not having a clearly defined answer actually makes him very interesting if not frightening.

#9 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@juliedc: I agree completely, which is what I love about the character. Also his joy is infectious. Lol

#10 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

I never realized just how much I loved the entire series until recently. I think Arrow's finale set it off.

I know, right? Even today, I am still thinking about the content and meaning of these three films. It's fascinating. Lots of social commentary.

#11 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@edamame: Even if Rises was the weakest of the three. It was light years ahead of other films.

#12 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Rises was the weakest of the three. It was light years ahead of other films.

Absolutely. There was a lot of social commentary in The Dark Knight Rises.

Did you also notice that there was the notion of the oppression of the working class in this film? I found that to be very interesting.

#14 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely. Which is something Bane played on. Which is why I bought up the fact that the people turned on the wealthy families of Gotham.

The only thing that bugged me, is that nobody questioned Bane or his motives. Like bringing a frickin Nuke into the city. Refused to let people leave or enter. And killed the one man on the planet capable of shutting it down in case of accidental activation. When presented with a false since of ``freedom" they reacted just as Joker said they would. Like animals.

#15 Posted by Wolverine08 (40612 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker wasn't just right about the fictional Gotham, but towards real life and people.

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#16 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by Pokeysteve (8234 posts) - - Show Bio

I hated that Batman trilogy and thought it was a terrible representation of most of the characters that appeared but pretty much everything that came out of Joker's mouth was gold. Highly quotable.

#18 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely. Which is something Bane played on. Which is why I bought up the fact that the people turned on the wealthy families of Gotham.

The only thing that bugged me, is that nobody questioned Bane or his motives. Like bringing a frickin Nuke into the city. Refused to let people leave or enter. And killed the one man on the planet capable of shutting it down in case of accidental activation. When presented with a false since of ``freedom" they reacted just as Joker said they would. Like animals.

Yup. That's what happens when you put 100% of your trust into someone. It certainly is dangerous.

#19 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Hell Yes!! I loved the ``As for my suit being cheap, you oughta know, you bought it."

#20 Posted by TheFirstLantern (1505 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil83: At times I think he is as smart as Bats just that his insanity has made others believe he is dumb.

Speaking of Social Commentary in Comic book Films, anyone catch the one in MOS? And yes the joker is right.

#21 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

For future reference, The Dark Knight Rises is abbreviated as TDKR, to avoid confusion with Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, which is abbreviated DKR.

#22 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by batmannflash (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

the Joker was right to some extent. I believe that it is in our human nature to create order. Think of it this way: You and 5 other people have been stranded on an island for the past week. What do you do? You nominate a leader. You assign jobs and a leader. It's only naturally. Sure, some people may lose it, but the majority is still striving for order. The Joker was right with the idea that people can lose it when all of structure and society is down. However, he believed that deep down, everyone was ugly as him. Take the ferry scene in the Dark Knight. He believed that one of the ferries would blow up. They didn't. That is because there is usually at least one person who wants order and will continue to steer the people in the correct place. They even did ballots. They need order. If the events in The Dark Knight Rises continued on, you would see Gotham slowly form some sort of system. Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad system, it's still order. In a way, there was some form of ordered chaos (the trials by Dr. Crane).

#24 Edited by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

TDKR kind of did prove Joker right.

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#25 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmannflash: See this Is what I was hoping for. Great points. I honestly think, someone would have blown up the other boat.

#26 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna be honest, don't think he said anything that wasn't already known.

Yeah, people go crazy. It's historically proven. When The Joker was talking, I saw Charles Manson. Okay, so the guy makes sense. But it's obvious sense. You take five minutes of your time, and just take a good look at the world around you. It makes total sense. It's not intelligent. It doesn't make him any smarter.

The world went crazy, but I wasn't thinking The Joker was right. I was thinking, it's humanity being humanity. That's it.

#27 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: Lol true. Thanks for the contribution to the thread. I mostly made this to see what people had to say. I know that most people already knew this. But there are those who try and Deny that people are capable of horrendous acts. This was partially inspired by Tony's Superman thread, and a question asked by 47 at the beginning of Hitman. ``When does a good man know when to kill?" Were the people of Gotham evil? Were they justified since they'd been lied to? These questions are impossible to fully answer. I just know that some people will Deny that they would do the unthinkable when pressed. Sometimes you gotta do evil for good reasons. I wanted to ask Gman, as a father, if a man had a Gun to his Childs head, would he put him down? Or refuse. Because if presented with that situation, any human who cares for their children would burn that bastard.

#28 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil83: They weren't evil. They were people. They went with natural instinct, that totally just rules out the natural thought process. It's sad, but that's usually how it tends to work.

I'm pretty sure any person would protect the ones they loved, no matter what. It's instinct. Primal instinct. You should play the game "The Last Of Us". With the story and character development in mind, I think you'd appreciate it.

#29 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: I will look for that. And I know that Tony would fight to the end. That is my point, when Clark tackled Zod through the gas station, he was lashing out in anger, as we all would, property damage be damned. We can all snap when angered or threatened, and to deny that, is as Loki said, a Childs prayer.

#30 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil83: Exactly. And in the case of Man Of Steel, people don't understand. Superman is a great hero, because of the fact he has grown over primal instinct. He can control it for the most part, which means less destruction.

He wasn't completely Superman in Man Of Steel. He was Clark-developing into Superman. He was wreckless, because the instinct still got to him. He didn't completely develope into Superman, and he didn't quite build a tolerance.


#31 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by russellmania77 (14832 posts) - - Show Bio

We all have the potential for being good

But we also have the easy choice of being evil

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#33 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5497 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Yea. Sadly most of us would choose easy. Which is basically what Mitt Romney said about 47% of America.