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Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6540 posts) 5 months, 7 days ago

Poll: Anonymously, What's Really Bothering You About The Changes In Marvel? Multiple Choice. (142 votes)

I Don't Think A Woman Should Hold Mjolnir 14%
I Don't Think A Black Person Should Be Captain America 10%
I Don't Think Popular Characters Should Be Killed Off 13%
I Don't Think Characters Should Be Replaced 19%
I Don't Think So Many Changes Should Happen At Once 23%
I Don't Like Falcon 12%
I Don't Think Women And Minorities Need To Be Represented In Comics 8%
I Want The Character I like To Be Available To Read Every Month 17%
It's Just "Pandering" To Women And Minorities 27%
Only White Men Should Be "Pandered" To 6%
Norse Mythology Shouldn't Be Tampered With 11%
They Should Make New Characters Instead 30%
I'm Not Willing To Wait And See If It Will Be Good. 8%
I Know Better Than Everyone Else 6%
If It Aint Broke, Don't Fix It 31%
Women Don't Even Read Comics 10%
Minorities Don't Even Read Comics 8%
Sex/Ethnicity Doesn't Matter, Just Write Good Stories 25%
This Is An Insult To The Fans 18%
This Is An Insult To The Creators 10%
The Originals Will Come Back, So Why Bother? 20%
No-One Asked For This 23%
It Should Have Been Another Character Taking Over 7%
I'm Boycotting Captain America 11%
I'm Boycotting Thor 13%
I'm Boycotting Wolverine(Any Follow-Up Isuues) 8%
I'm Boycotting Marvel 8%
I'm Boycotting Comics 3%
I'm Taking My Money To DC 13%
Other 25%

Hi Everyone.

So there's been a lot of reactions(and overreactions in my opinion) to some of the changes being made in Marvels upcoming comics. I've made a poll to try and figure out what the main objections are. The entries are based on statements and implications I've seen on the matter.

I kind of think some people are going way too far with their criticisms. Some of the reactions I've seen are like spoiled children who get toys every week(solo comics for their favourite character every month for 20-50 years), and then suddenly stop getting them. Sure that would be a shock to the system, but they don't see that they're lucky, when other children get way less toys, or none at all(solo characters who go years without a series). Maybe that's an odd comparison, but it's what comes to mind.

So, feel free to comment, or just vote anonymously. Multiple choice.

Scarlotte.

#1 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

If it aint broke dont fix it.

#2 Posted by Lvenger (21239 posts) - - Show Bio

I ticked a lot of these boxes. Good thing there was multiple choice.

#3 Posted by Aros001 (715 posts) - - Show Bio

You can have as diverse culture as you want, there's nothing wrong with that. But these are the comics, where the story matters most. If you are just creating all these new characters of different sex and ethnitities just to show how diverse you are, that itself is a bit racist. Don't focus on what they look like, just tell a good story because that's what the focus of the comic is supposed to be.

#4 Posted by IrishX (2474 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8993 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it comes down to taking another's name also comes with standing in the shadow of their legacy. Very rarely can a character be replaced and the replacement achieve equal recognition whether they deserve it or not. I have no problem with a female Thor, or a black Cap. However you aren't going to do diversity any justice in my opinion by having these characters exist in the shadows and legacies of their previous mantle holders, which is what I think will happen.

Sorry, didn't really see a box for this one.

#6 Posted by Squalleon (4981 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I mostly feel overwelmed by the number of changes and I guess it is pandering for the sake of fifteen minutes of press.
My other problems are in the case of Cap, that another guy taking the mantle is overplayed and it didn't make sense organically but thats all there is to it, I like Falcon (although from a marketing perspective I think Marvel made a very short-sighted move). In the case of Thor, I don't like how the lady will became Thor, that is plain weird, she weilds the powers of Thor but Thor is a name and after the run she will fall into oblivion like the other Thor replacements. And in the case of Iron Man it is hate for the core concept, plain and simple. I didn't like SSM and I will probably don't like Iron Man.
Now Marvel has also made Doc Strange an a$$hole, another character I love and the X-men are at their worst. So for me MARVEL is on her worst period in terms of interest.

#7 Posted by kcjr (350 posts) - - Show Bio

I really have no issues with these changes. They aren't permanent, we all know that. If Steve is losing his powers, Sam is his best replacement. I'm not sure how a woman can be Thor, I understand a woman can wield the hammer if she's worthy, but I thought she'd turn into Thor like Blake did. Whatever though, it could turn out well for the six months it lasts, or it could be boring. These things happen over the span of 60 years of storytelling.

#8 Posted by Billy Batson (58356 posts) - - Show Bio

These things not lasting infinitely.

BB

#9 Posted by Deadgod (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

Sex/Ethnicity Doesn't Matter, Just Write Good Stories

#10 Posted by Jack_ (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

Just write good stories is what I put.

#11 Posted by JetiiMitra (8874 posts) - - Show Bio

The answers are so loaded.

#12 Posted by nickthedevil (13971 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadgod said:

Sex/Ethnicity Doesn't Matter, Just Write Good Stories

My favorite thus far.

Goes hand in hand with the pandering, but as a person of color, it does me no difference.

It makes me angry, however, when they change an established character to another color. Be it black to white, White to Black, what have you.

I think Miles Morales and the new Ms Marvel are perfect examples of how to diversify comics, if that's what's going to happen.

#13 Posted by Wardishy (934 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted Other just so I could see people's choices.

I'm glad the most 'offensive' of the choices on the list have smaller percentages than the more 'legitimate' concerns.

#14 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardishy said:

I voted Other just so I could see people's choices.

I'm glad the most 'offensive' of the choices on the list have smaller percentages than the more 'legitimate' concerns.

I'm....surprised that some people actually voted for those choices:

I Don't Think A Black Person Should Be Captain America

I Don't Think A Woman Should Hold Mjolnir

Minorities Don't Even Read Comics

Women Don't Even Read Comics

Also,regarding that "if it ain't broke....fix it",it almost seems like a way of fans trying to fight against the slightest bit of change to their (personal) ideal views of their characters.

#15 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12660 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'm one of the very few on Comic Vine who is completely okay with these changes. I'm not a big fan of Falcon, I will admit this, I prefer just about a hundred characters over him but seeing him be Captain America could be cool. Hopefully Remender does it well because his Captain America series has been weak. As for Thor? I'm excited to see what happens and to see how it is executed. I see nothing wrong with their being a female "Thor" especially if this means Odinson will dawn a gimmick similar in regards to "The Captain" or "The Nomad." As for Superior Iron Man? I can't help but hate that Slott's Superior Spider-Man has had more influence on Marvel than we hoped but this new Tony could give him the spark back that Kieron basically killed. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that Marvel has this massive obsession for making Tony such an evil ass hole (like in The Crossing, Civil War, New Avengers: The Illuminati) but perhaps he will portrayed better this time around.

It's not permanent, things in comics happen that people won't like and they forget about them (people barely complain about OMD or Heroes Reborn anymore) over time. This is basically the original New Avengers concept just super different. It's cool, it's hip, and it's finite.

#16 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'm one of the very few on Comic Vine who is completely okay with these changes. I'm not a big fan of Falcon, I will admit this, I prefer just about a hundred characters over him but seeing him be Captain America could be cool. Hopefully Remender does it well because his Captain America series has been weak. As for Thor? I'm excited to see what happens and to see how it is executed. I see nothing wrong with their being a female "Thor" especially if this means Odinson will dawn a gimmick similar in regards to "The Captain" or "The Nomad." As for Superior Iron Man? I can't help but hate that Slott's Superior Spider-Man has had more influence on Marvel than we hoped but this new Tony could give him the spark back that Kieron basically killed. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that Marvel has this massive obsession for making Tony such an evil ass hole (like in The Crossing, Civil War, New Avengers: The Illuminati) but perhaps he will portrayed better this time around.

It's not permanent, things in comics happen that people won't like and they forget about them (people barely complain about OMD or Heroes Reborn anymore) over time. This is basically the original New Avengers concept just super different. It's cool, it's hip, and it's finite.

So it seems that you and I are in the same boat. We should start a club of users that are completely fine with these changes XD

Heck,remember that 1 time when something in comics was announced,and people ended up hating the news,but when the actual comic/concept came around and developed more (as in,they actually READ the stories and gave it a chance),they then start saying "I'm actually liking this".....oh wait,that didn't happen 1 time. That's always been the case with comic fans. I remember people even hating the news of Captain America being killed and Bucky taking his place.

In short,I agree completely. That second part was just adding to your point.

#17 Posted by PowerHerc (85336 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@JetiiMitra said:

The answers are so loaded.

So true.

Unfortunately,it appears that they are actually true representative feelings of some people (or some people just went batsh!t crazy and just checked randomly,but that's unlikely).

#19 Posted by HumanRocket (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

I ain't even mad about the changes.

#20 Edited by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

Were's the "giving a woman Thor's name and title, both of which are fit for a man, is really silly and detrimental to the new Thor"? Also, while I don't have any major issues with Falcon being the new Cap, I do think it's kind of lame that this change happened so suddenly and without any kind of build-up whatsoever.

Oh, and I reaaaaaaally don't care about Iron Man. At all. Make him a black transexual lesbian for all you care.

#21 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12660 posts) - - Show Bio

I ain't even mad about the changes.

That's why I lpenise you.

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think I'm one of the very few on Comic Vine who is completely okay with these changes. I'm not a big fan of Falcon, I will admit this, I prefer just about a hundred characters over him but seeing him be Captain America could be cool. Hopefully Remender does it well because his Captain America series has been weak. As for Thor? I'm excited to see what happens and to see how it is executed. I see nothing wrong with their being a female "Thor" especially if this means Odinson will dawn a gimmick similar in regards to "The Captain" or "The Nomad." As for Superior Iron Man? I can't help but hate that Slott's Superior Spider-Man has had more influence on Marvel than we hoped but this new Tony could give him the spark back that Kieron basically killed. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that Marvel has this massive obsession for making Tony such an evil ass hole (like in The Crossing, Civil War, New Avengers: The Illuminati) but perhaps he will portrayed better this time around.

It's not permanent, things in comics happen that people won't like and they forget about them (people barely complain about OMD or Heroes Reborn anymore) over time. This is basically the original New Avengers concept just super different. It's cool, it's hip, and it's finite.

So it seems that you and I are in the same boat. We should start a club of users that are completely fine with these changes XD

Heck,remember that 1 time when something in comics was announced,and people ended up hating the news,but when the actual comic/concept came around and developed more (as in,they actually READ the stories and gave it a chance),they then start saying "I'm actually liking this".....oh wait,that didn't happen 1 time. That's always been the case with comic fans. I remember people even hating the news of Captain America being killed and Bucky taking his place.

In short,I agree completely. That second part was just adding to your point.

Awesome! And I totally agree with your second part. People jump to conclusions too quickly on here a lot. I am guilty of this from time to time but I more or less trust Marvel with their decisions. Bucky being Captain America ended up being one of the best things in comics of the last 10 years.

#22 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@humanrocket said:

I ain't even mad about the changes.

That's why I lpenise you.

@twix_right_side said:

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think I'm one of the very few on Comic Vine who is completely okay with these changes. I'm not a big fan of Falcon, I will admit this, I prefer just about a hundred characters over him but seeing him be Captain America could be cool. Hopefully Remender does it well because his Captain America series has been weak. As for Thor? I'm excited to see what happens and to see how it is executed. I see nothing wrong with their being a female "Thor" especially if this means Odinson will dawn a gimmick similar in regards to "The Captain" or "The Nomad." As for Superior Iron Man? I can't help but hate that Slott's Superior Spider-Man has had more influence on Marvel than we hoped but this new Tony could give him the spark back that Kieron basically killed. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that Marvel has this massive obsession for making Tony such an evil ass hole (like in The Crossing, Civil War, New Avengers: The Illuminati) but perhaps he will portrayed better this time around.

It's not permanent, things in comics happen that people won't like and they forget about them (people barely complain about OMD or Heroes Reborn anymore) over time. This is basically the original New Avengers concept just super different. It's cool, it's hip, and it's finite.

So it seems that you and I are in the same boat. We should start a club of users that are completely fine with these changes XD

Heck,remember that 1 time when something in comics was announced,and people ended up hating the news,but when the actual comic/concept came around and developed more (as in,they actually READ the stories and gave it a chance),they then start saying "I'm actually liking this".....oh wait,that didn't happen 1 time. That's always been the case with comic fans. I remember people even hating the news of Captain America being killed and Bucky taking his place.

In short,I agree completely. That second part was just adding to your point.

Awesome! And I totally agree with your second part. People jump to conclusions too quickly on here a lot. I am guilty of this from time to time but I more or less trust Marvel with their decisions. Bucky being Captain America ended up being one of the best things in comics of the last 10 years.

A-freaking-men!

I mean,that doesn't mean that all cynicism/criticism doesn't have substance to it. I mean,the Captain America depowered thing has been done many times in the past,but I don't really think that it's been done in this same way,and I am actually interested in seeing how things will be different this time.

Still though,I agree on your stance. Some people just don't like change. Glad to see that I'm not the only one. Prepare to see threads created about these changes every day for the next few months

#23 Posted by Manchine (4185 posts) - - Show Bio

Other Nothing. Because it will all be back to normal at some point in time. =)

#24 Edited by I3IO_HAZARD (403 posts) - - Show Bio

Pandering to minority groups, nothing new, nothing to see hear people. Just another stupid ass Marvel gimmick that will last a year and then go back to normal.

#25 Edited by HumanRocket (9380 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by Hollow_Point (660 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

@arturocalakayvee: @twix_right_side: I'm interested in changes, I only wish most of them would last longer.

I hope this one lasts for a year,or probably more (at the least).

I would hate it if this only lasted 1 year and then things revert to the status quo

#29 Posted by Z3RO180 (6718 posts) - - Show Bio

What's bothering me is that they keep spoiling these surprise's months before they happen.

#30 Posted by stormphoenix (947 posts) - - Show Bio

Well ever since AVX I don't like Cap or Iron Man so don't much care. As for Thor it is weird that he is a girl. But I will admit it I am excited, but a girl? Makes me laugh now he REALLY IS "Goldie Locks"

#31 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Comic readers are impossible to please one way or another. Just be happy this didn't turn out like Wally West.

#32 Posted by Spidey_Jackson (2784 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of these are really rude.......

Beata.

#33 Posted by Lvenger (21239 posts) - - Show Bio

Were's the "giving a woman Thor's name and title, both of which are fit for a man, is really silly and detrimental to the new Thor"?

That's basically my opinion summarised in one.

#34 Posted by Xwraith (21555 posts) - - Show Bio

My biggest problem is that they're doing too many at once.

Online
#35 Edited by FearTheLiving (4198 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't vote, as of now I'm perfectly fine with announcements they've made. It's after I read them that I may or may not have some concerns.

#36 Edited by Fallschirmjager (18967 posts) - - Show Bio

I see it as nothing but shall media and money grabs. Its not meaningful, imaginative, creative or original in any way. Trying to ride the coat tails of a huge character to promote a minor one is a hollow move, because they'll have no legacy of their own.

I understand promoting minorities has thus far been extremely difficult, however no one is going to care unless the character is unique and offers something they can't find somewhere else: which why the characters that are popular are popular.

I don't give a crap about skin color. Or race. I read good stories with good characters. And I don't really have an internet any of them. I love Captain America and Falcon has always been an extremely boring character - it has nothing to do with his race.

As for Thor-girl? I personally don't even really care for Thor that much. I was just reading this current series because its been great. Frankly, I actually have more interest in the future King Thor than I did the main Thor. So if he's in the new book, I might keep reading it. If not...whatever. I'm all ready reading plenty of excellent female stories who don't need to steal another character's name to get a book.

You can apply all of this to Wolverine and Superior Spider-Man btw. Killing comic characters as big as Wolverine and Spider-Man isn't meaningful because its not permanent - so why even do it?

#37 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say my opinion. And this goes for DC and Marvel.

Do not change one of the most beloved and most popular characters, especially if they don't need fixing(Tho, Wally West). These characters comics sold well, but for some reason they thought it'd be a good idea to change 'em.

I'm going to be real. I don't think it's a good Idea to let a woman be Thor, for three reasons.

1) Thor is a Masculine from both Nordic mythology and culture. Your basically giving her the name of a male.

2) The hammer reads "so whoever wields this hammer shall have the power "OF" Thor"(or something along those lines), not BE Thor.

3) Thor is his name, Thor Odinson. He's that person with or without the hammer.

Also, in the long run we all know Thor will return, around a year or so. So why make this publicity stunt. Is this to attract the female audience? 'Cause I think for every female reader you bring in, 2 will leave the Thor fanbase. You want to widen the female demographic in comics? Start to incorporate already existing female heroes and/or make new ones. Do not go the lazy route. Same for DC and Wally West. Incorporate John Stewart into JL comics more, give Cyborg his own standalone. There are many, many female and Black male characters to just be changing another entirely. Rogue, Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, Icon, John Stewart, Icon, etc.

Also, the reason why, outside of Wonder Woman, there are no real big name female characters is because most of 'em are just copies of popular make heroes. Sure, you have your Ms. Marvels, your Rougues, but for the most part there are only a few. She-Hulk, Supergirl, Batgirl, are just a few that come to mind. Invent female characters that are their own, not some girl version of another.

#38 Posted by frozenedge (1344 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see the problem with any of the changes. This really isn't the first time any major characters of Marvel have been changed dramatically so what is the difference this time

#39 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

I never liked Falcon.

I just don't care too much about the new Iron Man. I never followed Iron Man.

There are at least 3 better characters that could take Thor's place. (Beta Ray Bill, Hercules, Sif) There are better deserving characters, and I don't think the new Thor will take off. She'll be just another Thunderstrike. We already have 1 Thor girl, we don't need another. Although I like Thor w/ his ax and destroyer arm.

#40 Edited by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

I never liked Falcon.

I just don't care too much about the new Iron Man. I never followed Iron Man.

There are at least 3 better characters that could take Thor's place. (Beta Ray Bill, Hercules, Sif) There are better deserving characters, and I don't think the new Thor will take off. She'll be just another Thunderstrike. We already have 1 Thor girl, we don't need another. Although I like Thor w/ his ax and destroyer arm.

New Iron Man? Are you talking about the new book,or a new character?

#41 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: Aren't we getting a Superior Iron-Man, now? I thought we were.

#42 Posted by Project_Worm (3530 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get it... people praised Marvel for what they did with Kamala, and got excited for the new Ghost Rider. It's essentially the same stuff. At least they're not like DC who are fine with changing and shoe horning a character with what they want instead of creating someone new.

#43 Posted by proto3296 (1372 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly couldn't care less about female thor and falcon as captain America. I have a problem with superior iron man. Wtf? I mean I haven't read the story yet obviously. But Slott is having to be an effect on marvel. I miss classic ironman. He's adopted a rude and cruel personality as of late and I'm not a fan.

#44 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: Aren't we getting a Superior Iron-Man, now? I thought we were.

But it's still gonna be Tony. They said that he's not getting swapped with any villains or anything,just that he has a new visionary idea (Extremis into an app)

#45 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get it... people praised Marvel for what they did with Kamala, and got excited for the new Ghost Rider. It's essentially the same stuff. At least they're not like DC who are fine with changing and shoe horning a character with what they want instead of creating someone new.

To be fair,those aren't really the same thing. And people spit venom at the new Ghost Rider (as always) and used the same tired argument about it "spitting in the face of fans".

I honestly couldn't care less about female thor and falcon as captain America. I have a problem with superior iron man. Wtf? I mean I haven't read the story yet obviously. But Slott is having to be an effect on marvel. I miss classic ironman. He's adopted a rude and cruel personality as of late and I'm not a fan.

...What problem do you have with superior Iron Man? Just asking...

#46 Posted by Sovereign91001 (5065 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardishy said:

I voted Other just so I could see people's choices.

I'm glad the most 'offensive' of the choices on the list have smaller percentages than the more 'legitimate' concerns.

Ditto, that said I'm surprised at some of the numbers behind some of the more...offensive choices.

#47 Edited by longbowhunter (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start by saying I'm not mad about any of the recent changes made by Marvel. I've been reading since the late 80's, I know how these things go. I voted for If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It and Create New Characters. I want Jason Aaron and Esad Ribic's Thor to last forever. I know that wont happen, but I was hoping we'd get a couple years outta these guys. I cant imagine Thor being better than it was with these two on board. And yes I know that Aaron is staying on, but I dont think it'll be the same book. And secondly the Big Two need new characters. Or at least push some existing characters to the fore front. In Marvel's defense they've been doing this to great effect lately. I'm loving Black Widow, Moon Knight and Magneto's series. Carol Danvers is now an A list superhero and the new Ms. Marvel is a big hit. But still thousands of stories have been told with Cap and Thor. Before resorting to gimmicks like this, I'd rather see the publisher take the characters off the table for a bit and focus on other, less defined characters. In a perfect world this would probably be the case. But I understand its about sales, character recognition and marketability. Thats why I'm not upset.

#48 Posted by Project_Worm (3530 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: Eh maybe not to you... but to me personally it's just someone taking over the mantle of a character. *Shrug*

#49 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: Eh maybe not to you... but to me personally it's just someone taking over the mantle of a character. *Shrug*

Well Kamala kinda actually IS taking the mantle of Ms Marvel,but they are each done in different ways.

I was also gonna say Ghost Rider,but it seems that Robbie isn't really possessed by Zarathos and Johnny is still active as GR.

#50 Posted by proto3296 (1372 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: the suit change for one, like I said I haven't read the series, but I've read that the "new tony" will be superior to his former self. Idk I just don't like this whole changing every character at once. I really hate the suit lol. Mostly because I miss the old one. Red and gold just looks so nice.