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Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

All I want to ask is how long do you think the upcoming changes of the title will last? my guess is 6 months for a teaser return and a year for the full one.

#1 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd rather it be something permanent

#2 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

I highly doubt that it will be permanent, I mean how would it make any sense to new readers? or fans of the movies? if they keep this as permanent change it will hurt them in the long run

#3 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

I highly doubt that it will be permanent, I mean how would it make any sense to new readers? or fans of the movies? if they keep this as permanent change it will hurt them in the long run

Well maybe not permanent in all books, but you count discount loyal readers either. I like change and when there isn't much left to do with a character, a switch up is nice.

#4 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

I highly doubt that it will be permanent, I mean how would it make any sense to new readers? or fans of the movies? if they keep this as permanent change it will hurt them in the long run

Well maybe not permanent in all books, but you count discount loyal readers either. I like change and when there isn't much left to do with a character, a switch up is nice.

Huh I can see your point but, has Peter been left with nothing left to tell? my answer is no I believe that AMS was so close to showing that OMD was pointless and it looks as if those effects and that deal would be over so they had to change it up again. Also is there not a whole other part of Peters life left to tell his fatherhood when May is born?

Once again I chalk this change up to the fact Marvel wants Peter in a state of arrested development

#5 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

I highly doubt that it will be permanent, I mean how would it make any sense to new readers? or fans of the movies? if they keep this as permanent change it will hurt them in the long run

Well maybe not permanent in all books, but you count discount loyal readers either. I like change and when there isn't much left to do with a character, a switch up is nice.

Huh I can see your point but, has Peter been left with nothing left to tell? my answer is no I believe that AMS was so close to showing that OMD was pointless and it looks as if those effects and that deal would be over so they had to change it up again. Also is there not a whole other part of Peters life left to tell his fatherhood when May is born?

Once again I chalk this change up to the fact Marvel wants Peter in a state of arrested development

Marvel ABSOLUTELY wants Peter Parker in a state of arrested development.... Course, it wants nearly all of it's characters the same way...

However, I can't help but wonder if they might use this to make some positive changes in Peter. Now, no doubt that Doc Ock is a royal Pr*&k, but I wonder if Peter's mind will be more disciplined and focused... Consider all the things he's been inventing and using just recently. Why has it taken so long? Perhaps, marvel will up his I.Q. a few points, and bring him closer to Tony Stark level with regard to not only I.Q. but in engineering and building... It could happen... Or, it could be a total waste of time and comic space...

#6 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

I highly doubt that it will be permanent, I mean how would it make any sense to new readers? or fans of the movies? if they keep this as permanent change it will hurt them in the long run

Well maybe not permanent in all books, but you count discount loyal readers either. I like change and when there isn't much left to do with a character, a switch up is nice.

Huh I can see your point but, has Peter been left with nothing left to tell? my answer is no I believe that AMS was so close to showing that OMD was pointless and it looks as if those effects and that deal would be over so they had to change it up again. Also is there not a whole other part of Peters life left to tell his fatherhood when May is born?

Once again I chalk this change up to the fact Marvel wants Peter in a state of arrested development

Marvel ABSOLUTELY wants Peter Parker in a state of arrested development.... Course, it wants nearly all of it's characters the same way...

However, I can't help but wonder if they might use this to make some positive changes in Peter. Now, no doubt that Doc Ock is a royal Pr*&k, but I wonder if Peter's mind will be more disciplined and focused... Consider all the things he's been inventing and using just recently. Why has it taken so long? Perhaps, marvel will up his I.Q. a few points, and bring him closer to Tony Stark level with regard to not only I.Q. but in engineering and building... It could happen... Or, it could be a total waste of time and comic space...

I agree with you but I feel Marvel needs to let him grow up a bit, I love how they said when the terrible storyline sins past come out that if Peter had a child it would age the character to much but its like have you looked out side people are having kids younger and younger now a days. Having may could be a great change to the comics now instead of Peter having girl problems that he has had for 50 years now he has something bigger to life for and to carry on.

The only way I see this SS saga ending is showing us the fact that no one but Peter Park (the real one not Ocktobrained) can hold the mantle of Spider-Man. Maybe you are right and when Peter comes back his mind will be on the level of a Tony or a Reed. I just hope we do not have to want years for this saga to pay off.

#7 Posted by Strider92 (16756 posts) - - Show Bio

I see it lasting a year (24 issues) maybe 2 max.

#8 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

I see it lasting a year (24 issues) maybe 2 max.

I think you are right, with the book being bi weekly I think a year is most likely I mean since ASM 2 will be hitting theaters in 2014 I just do not see it still being Ocktospidey

#9 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

indeed. Its time to let go of the ''normal'' status quo.
#10 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love for it to become a struggle between Peter's persona and Ocks.

(Not Peter's soul or whatever that died, but the experiences Peter had vs the experiences Ock had)

#11 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I'd rather it be something permanent

indeed. Its time to let go of the ''normal'' status quo.

The thing is that nothing in comics changes forever I mean if you look at the New 52 it will get rebooted again in 10 years to tell the same stories to get to the classic status quo.

#12 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@BR_Havoc: That's the thing, you can do so much until it gets redundant.
#13 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@BR_Havoc: That's the thing, you can do so much until it gets redundant.

The way it goes I guess. No matter what you do the only way fans want to see a hero end his run is by riding off into the sunset or stepping back as new heroes take over (kind of like a few of the original JSA members did).

The way I see SS is its really a gimmick I am hoping for a good story and I do not think that Dan Slott would do this without thinking the whole arc threw but in the end the idea that Spidey's greatest villain takes the mantle over and its going to be a permanent change just doesn't make sense if you want new readers. The casual fans and pop culture only knows Spider-Man as Peter Parker and that is the only thing they will accept.

#14 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@BR_Havoc said:

@SandMan_ said:

@BR_Havoc: That's the thing, you can do so much until it gets redundant.

The way it goes I guess. No matter what you do the only way fans want to see a hero end his run is by riding off into the sunset or stepping back as new heroes take over (kind of like a few of the original JSA members did).

The way I see SS is its really a gimmick I am hoping for a good story and I do not think that Dan Slott would do this without thinking the whole arc threw but in the end the idea that Spidey's greatest villain takes the mantle over and its going to be a permanent change just doesn't make sense if you want new readers. The casual fans and pop culture only knows Spider-Man as Peter Parker and that is the only thing they will accept.

Sometimes change is good. But you have to be willing to roll with it.
#15 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@SandMan_ said:

@BR_Havoc: That's the thing, you can do so much until it gets redundant.

The way it goes I guess. No matter what you do the only way fans want to see a hero end his run is by riding off into the sunset or stepping back as new heroes take over (kind of like a few of the original JSA members did).

The way I see SS is its really a gimmick I am hoping for a good story and I do not think that Dan Slott would do this without thinking the whole arc threw but in the end the idea that Spidey's greatest villain takes the mantle over and its going to be a permanent change just doesn't make sense if you want new readers. The casual fans and pop culture only knows Spider-Man as Peter Parker and that is the only thing they will accept.

Sometimes change is good. But you have to be willing to roll with it.

Do not take me for a person that just hate change and will not accept it. Personally I loved when Bucky was Captain America, I thought that Dick Grayson was a great Batman. I'm still going to read the story and I believe it is going somewhere there is just no way I can see it being permanent

This story line starts off with not giving Peter a heroes death if he had one then yes maybe it could be a change that in the long run would be good. Since he did not get one it just happens and left me looking for pages that might of been stuck together. I can't see it.

#16 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@BR_Havoc: I meant in general...Sorry XD
 
it won't stick. Not like that.
#17 Posted by Z3RO180 (6633 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm:ok im guessing you have read 700 so is it ocks mind in peters body or is it melding of both there minds ?

#18 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc:

I agree with you but I feel Marvel needs to let him grow up a bit, I love how they said when the terrible storyline sins past come out that if Peter had a child it would age the character to much but its like have you looked out side people are having kids younger and younger now a days. Having may could be a great change to the comics now instead of Peter having girl problems that he has had for 50 years now he has something bigger to life for and to carry on.

The only way I see this SS saga ending is showing us the fact that no one but Peter Park (the real one not Ocktobrained) can hold the mantle of Spider-Man. Maybe you are right and when Peter comes back his mind will be on the level of a Tony or a Reed. I just hope we do not have to want years for this saga to pay off.

HEY! COME ON NOW?!?! Spidey is only about 65 years old! You can't rush these things! LOL!

I've felt that way (Marvel needs to let Spidey grow up a bit) for a very long time. It's a pitiful thing that they're worrying about "aging the character too much." They want ALL their characters to be young, yet, at the same time, they want all the things that only come WITH aging.

They want young characters with grown children... No super hero (except Susan Storm) should bother having children and raising them... sigh... So, what's their solution?

  • Rachel Summers - Hi, I'm your 16 year old daughter from the future or an alternate timeline or some such thing.
  • Cable (Nathan Summers)) - Hi, I'm your even older son who happens to be the younger brother of Rachel... Rachel kidnapped me and raised me in a future that's the future to her future... I think... It's confusing and I try not to think about it.
  • Daken - Hi Wolverine I'm your fully grown son. I have an extra claw in a place that doesn't make sense... Oh, and I"m too stupid to realize you thought mom was dead and didn't know I was even born or alive so... now I"m just angry and I want to kill you and everyone else...
  • Cub Sihnclaire - Raine (Wolfbane) vomits up a wolf cub whose almost a teen within a few issues...
  • David Waller (I hope I got his name right) - Son of Charles Xavier who the world never knew about until he was about 16.
  • Nick Fury Jr. - So, my real name is Nick Fury Jr? and my dad is white? and I just happen have healing powers like him. Well, why don't we just rip out one of my eyes (which won't heal for some unexplained reason), get me a trench coat, and I'll take over for dad!!!
  • X-23 - I'm a female pseudo-clone of Wolverine... So, I'm like his daughter / sister... Not that we're from Alabama or any such thing. It's complicated. But I'm sixteen now... Even though, as a clone, I still had to go through the normal gestation and delivery of any normal human being... Also, I wasn't aged rapidly, so I've aged the normal 16 years... Yet, here I am at the age of sixteen just showing up all of the sudden...

They also want the dynamics of relationships between older adults and younger adults BUT???/ Everyone is in the mid-twenties so how does that work? It's even worse in the Ultimate Universe.

  • Spider-Man - Has graduated college. Went to graduate school for a few years. Has been out of graduate school for a few years. (that alone should make him about 28). Was a high school teacher for a few years AFTER graduate school. (So that should bring him up to about 31). Has been a New Avenger for a couple of years... and yet he's only about 25? Really? REALLYI???
  • Jessica Cage - The same age as Peter Parker, but married to Luke Cage who was in his mid-twenties when Peter Parker was 15. Okay, so he's about ten years older than her, no biggie, but no super-hero in the Marvel Universe is supposed to be in their mid-30s. They;'re also not supposed to have children except from an alternate time line or past life, so these two are really breaking some rules.
  • Clint Barton - Became an Avenger in issue number 16 of volume 1!!!! He was already an adult back in 1962,,, (not that time progresses the same way in the Marvel Universe) but the point is, he was in his mid-20s when the Avengers first started... and here we are fifty years later and he's STILL in his mid-20s. God Bless him...

I could go on and on with an almost endless list of examples, but it really doesn't make sense or fit.... They need to let their characters age and have normal kids the normal way.... Or Super kids the normal way.... And let them get married and maybe even divorced, but the point is, let them grow...

#19 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

@Timandm:ok im guessing you have read 700 so is it ocks mind in peters body or is it melding of both there minds ?

Well, we saw in 699 that their minds are completely switched... Ock's mind is in Peter's body, and vice versa...

#20 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc: I agree with you to a point. There's nothing wrong with someone else picking up the title of a fallen superhero. But having Doctor Octopus taking over Peter Parker's entire life and no one even knows...that just seems wrong. I had no problem with Marvel killing Peter Parker in the Ultimate series and having someone take up his mantle. He died a hero and someone honored that. Doctor Octopus is selfish, arrogant, and an all around jerk.. Cable once said that Spider-Man will become the greatest superhero of all time. I do not see anything resembling Doc Ock fufilling that statement.

#21 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

I say bring on the change. Peter Parker is my favorite hero and the reason I got into comics. He needs some time off.

As for the Superior Spiderman, I'll check it out. I like Slott and think he will bring the goods.

#22 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@BR_Havoc:

I agree with you but I feel Marvel needs to let him grow up a bit, I love how they said when the terrible storyline sins past come out that if Peter had a child it would age the character to much but its like have you looked out side people are having kids younger and younger now a days. Having may could be a great change to the comics now instead of Peter having girl problems that he has had for 50 years now he has something bigger to life for and to carry on.

The only way I see this SS saga ending is showing us the fact that no one but Peter Park (the real one not Ocktobrained) can hold the mantle of Spider-Man. Maybe you are right and when Peter comes back his mind will be on the level of a Tony or a Reed. I just hope we do not have to want years for this saga to pay off.

HEY! COME ON NOW?!?! Spidey is only about 65 years old! You can't rush these things! LOL!

I've felt that way (Marvel needs to let Spidey grow up a bit) for a very long time. It's a pitiful thing that they're worrying about "aging the character too much." They want ALL their characters to be young, yet, at the same time, they want all the things that only come WITH aging.

They want young characters with grown children... No super hero (except Susan Storm) should bother having children and raising them... sigh... So, what's their solution?

  • Rachel Summers - Hi, I'm your 16 year old daughter from the future or an alternate timeline or some such thing.
  • Cable (Nathan Summers)) - Hi, I'm your even older son who happens to be the younger brother of Rachel... Rachel kidnapped me and raised me in a future that's the future to her future... I think... It's confusing and I try not to think about it.
  • Daken - Hi Wolverine I'm your fully grown son. I have an extra claw in a place that doesn't make sense... Oh, and I"m too stupid to realize you thought mom was dead and didn't know I was even born or alive so... now I"m just angry and I want to kill you and everyone else...
  • Cub Sihnclaire - Raine (Wolfbane) vomits up a wolf cub whose almost a teen within a few issues...
  • David Waller (I hope I got his name right) - Son of Charles Xavier who the world never knew about until he was about 16.
  • Nick Fury Jr. - So, my real name is Nick Fury Jr? and my dad is white? and I just happen have healing powers like him. Well, why don't we just rip out one of my eyes (which won't heal for some unexplained reason), get me a trench coat, and I'll take over for dad!!!
  • X-23 - I'm a female pseudo-clone of Wolverine... So, I'm like his daughter / sister... Not that we're from Alabama or any such thing. It's complicated. But I'm sixteen now... Even though, as a clone, I still had to go through the normal gestation and delivery of any normal human being... Also, I wasn't aged rapidly, so I've aged the normal 16 years... Yet, here I am at the age of sixteen just showing up all of the sudden...

They also want the dynamics of relationships between older adults and younger adults BUT???/ Everyone is in the mid-twenties so how does that work? It's even worse in the Ultimate Universe.

  • Spider-Man - Has graduated college. Went to graduate school for a few years. Has been out of graduate school for a few years. (that alone should make him about 28). Was a high school teacher for a few years AFTER graduate school. (So that should bring him up to about 31). Has been a New Avenger for a couple of years... and yet he's only about 25? Really? REALLYI???
  • Jessica Cage - The same age as Peter Parker, but married to Luke Cage who was in his mid-twenties when Peter Parker was 15. Okay, so he's about ten years older than her, no biggie, but no super-hero in the Marvel Universe is supposed to be in their mid-30s. They;'re also not supposed to have children except from an alternate time line or past life, so these two are really breaking some rules.
  • Clint Barton - Became an Avenger in issue number 16 of volume 1!!!! He was already an adult back in 1962,,, (not that time progresses the same way in the Marvel Universe) but the point is, he was in his mid-20s when the Avengers first started... and here we are fifty years later and he's STILL in his mid-20s. God Bless him...

I could go on and on with an almost endless list of examples, but it really doesn't make sense or fit.... They need to let their characters age and have normal kids the normal way.... Or Super kids the normal way.... And let them get married and maybe even divorced, but the point is, let them grow...

I will keep this short and sweet because I could go on for pages and pages. I agree with you 100 percent I look at characters like Sue and Reed Richards and think to myself why in gods name does marvel not have more character like them. They have a real marriage and kids. There comics are about a family with characters growing going threw challenges but coming together as a family.

I think Spider-Man could be a character that fatherhood would work well for. Give him something else to fight for lets say May gets her powers earlier (Like Franklin and Val) he could mentor her to take his mantle. Marvel needs to learn that at one time Peter was relatable not anymore instead of growing with the audience he reverts.

#23 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc: I agree with you to a point. There's nothing wrong with someone else picking up the title of a fallen superhero. But having Doctor Octopus taking over Peter Parker's entire life and no one even knows...that just seems wrong. I had no problem with Marvel killing Peter Parker in the Ultimate series and having someone take up his mantle. He died a hero and someone honored that. Doctor Octopus is selfish, arrogant, and an all around jerk.. Cable once said that Spider-Man will become the greatest superhero of all time. I do not see anything resembling Doc Ock fufilling that statement.

I understand and agree its not a natural progression of the "Spider-Man" character. When Steve Rogers died it made sense that Bucky took over. Here it feels like a gimmick and that is the biggest problem with the story it feels like this is a sales move, not a great storyline.

Now I do not hate Dan Slott I think he has done a good job writing She Hulk and Spidey over the years. I am just hoping this is a story or an arc that looking back on it in a few years I can say yeah it was good (Like when Bucky was Cap) but so far off to a terrible start.

#24 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

I understand and agree its not a natural progression of the "Spider-Man" character. When Steve Rogers died it made sense that Bucky took over. Here it feels like a gimmick and that is the biggest problem with the story it feels like this is a sales move, not a great storyline.

Now I do not hate Dan Slott I think he has done a good job writing She Hulk and Spidey over the years. I am just hoping this is a story or an arc that looking back on it in a few years I can say yeah it was good (Like when Bucky was Cap) but so far off to a terrible start.

And I understand that Marvel needs to make money and I understand they do things for sales (ex. Avengers vs X-Men). However even as far back as when Slott first said Peter Parker wasn't going to be Superior Spider-Man fans have been saying no. Then when they got a hold of ASM 700 even MORE fans said no, I honestly think it's gotten to the point where yeah it was a great way to sell ASM 700 (despite the fact that it's fricken 700 which probably would have made it automatically sell well), but is Superior 1 really going to do well? From reactions alone I would think it would make more business sense for Marvel to say OK we get it you don't like it.

I also think that Dan Slott has done such an Amazing (get it?) job with Spider-Man since starting that it would suck if this one mistake (and my opinion is that 700 is a great idea...for an AU. but for the MAIN universe?...) ruins all of that. I mean let's face it before Slott got on ASM was in trouble and no one really knew what to do. And a lot of people are saying it's the worst thing to happen to Spider-Man and all I have to say to that is 1. Gwen Stacy Clone Babies 2. OMD and 3. Spider-Man: Reign...* shudders* thank goodness THAT WAS AU...

#25 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

I understand and agree its not a natural progression of the "Spider-Man" character. When Steve Rogers died it made sense that Bucky took over. Here it feels like a gimmick and that is the biggest problem with the story it feels like this is a sales move, not a great storyline.

Now I do not hate Dan Slott I think he has done a good job writing She Hulk and Spidey over the years. I am just hoping this is a story or an arc that looking back on it in a few years I can say yeah it was good (Like when Bucky was Cap) but so far off to a terrible start.

And I understand that Marvel needs to make money and I understand they do things for sales (ex. Avengers vs X-Men). However even as far back as when Slott first said Peter Parker wasn't going to be Superior Spider-Man fans have been saying no. Then when they got a hold of ASM 700 even MORE fans said no, I honestly think it's gotten to the point where yeah it was a great way to sell ASM 700 (despite the fact that it's fricken 700 which probably would have made it automatically sell well), but is Superior 1 really going to do well? From reactions alone I would think it would make more business sense for Marvel to say OK we get it you don't like it.

I also think that Dan Slott has done such an Amazing (get it?) job with Spider-Man since starting that it would suck if this one mistake (and my opinion is that 700 is a great idea...for an AU. but for the MAIN universe?...) ruins all of that. I mean let's face it before Slott got on ASM was in trouble and no one really knew what to do. And a lot of people are saying it's the worst thing to happen to Spider-Man and all I have to say to that is 1. Gwen Stacy Clone Babies 2. OMD and 3. Spider-Man: Reign...* shudders* thank goodness THAT WAS AU...

What is going to happen is what always happens with these things in comics. This move was made so that the casual Spidey fan the one that had not read an issue for years or the fans of the movies would buy this issue. It was meant to get CNN spots its just like the Superman/WonderWoman kiss heard around the world. So with Superior sales will be strong for that first storyline some of the fans that are mad will check it out and a ton of casual fans will try it, but those sales only last so long and usually its less then a year of high sales before it goes lower then they were and then they will give Peter his grand return.

When I read in interviews that Slott had this ideas for years and it was always part of the plan, I just do not see it honestly I think it started as a joke (like lets kill Superman) and the Spidey editor wanted a shake up (When is spidey going to get an editor that doesn't screw everything up?) and told him to go for it.

Its to early to judge if its a mistake or not but I can say that every time Marvel attempted to shake up or do something sensational with Spidey in the modern era it has been a huge flop. OMD was voted worst Marvel storyline ever and Sins Past was a close second. Oh boy who could not forget Spider-Man Reign radioactive sperm and a dark gritty style for Spider-Man that must of sounded like a good idea at the time -_-

#26 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

What is going to happen is what always happens with these things in comics. This move was made so that the casual Spidey fan the one that had not read an issue for years or the fans of the movies would buy this issue. It was meant to get CNN spots its just like the Superman/WonderWoman kiss heard around the world. So with Superior sales will be strong for that first storyline some of the fans that are mad will check it out and a ton of casual fans will try it, but those sales only last so long and usually its less then a year of high sales before it goes lower then they were and then they will give Peter his grand return.

When I read in interviews that Slott had this ideas for years and it was always part of the plan, I just do not see it honestly I think it started as a joke (like lets kill Superman) and the Spidey editor wanted a shake up (When is spidey going to get an editor that doesn't screw everything up?) and told him to go for it.

Its to early to judge if its a mistake or not but I can say that every time Marvel attempted to shake up or do something sensational with Spidey in the modern era it has been a huge flop. OMD was voted worst Marvel storyline ever and Sins Past was a close second. Oh boy who could not forget Spider-Man Reign radioactive sperm and a dark gritty style for Spider-Man that must of sounded like a good idea at the time -_-

I'm pretty sure I read the same interview and the only thing I can remember (because I sat there and stared at it in disbelief for 5 mins.) was this..

[Superior Spider-Man] is Doc Ock getting a second chance at life, and not just any kind of second chance: He gets to be this young, athletic, handsome superhero with a great job and respect, who is a member of the superhero community. He gets to be accepted in ways that Otto Octavius never was.

That is Dan Slotts exact words and it pretty much highlights where everything kinda went wrong.. Way before it even started. This is no longer a comic about Spider-Man, but about Otto Octavius.

#27 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

What is going to happen is what always happens with these things in comics. This move was made so that the casual Spidey fan the one that had not read an issue for years or the fans of the movies would buy this issue. It was meant to get CNN spots its just like the Superman/WonderWoman kiss heard around the world. So with Superior sales will be strong for that first storyline some of the fans that are mad will check it out and a ton of casual fans will try it, but those sales only last so long and usually its less then a year of high sales before it goes lower then they were and then they will give Peter his grand return.

When I read in interviews that Slott had this ideas for years and it was always part of the plan, I just do not see it honestly I think it started as a joke (like lets kill Superman) and the Spidey editor wanted a shake up (When is spidey going to get an editor that doesn't screw everything up?) and told him to go for it.

Its to early to judge if its a mistake or not but I can say that every time Marvel attempted to shake up or do something sensational with Spidey in the modern era it has been a huge flop. OMD was voted worst Marvel storyline ever and Sins Past was a close second. Oh boy who could not forget Spider-Man Reign radioactive sperm and a dark gritty style for Spider-Man that must of sounded like a good idea at the time -_-

I'm pretty sure I read the same interview and the only thing I can remember (because I sat there and stared at it in disbelief for 5 mins.) was this..

[Superior Spider-Man] is Doc Ock getting a second chance at life, and not just any kind of second chance: He gets to be this young, athletic, handsome superhero with a great job and respect, who is a member of the superhero community. He gets to be accepted in ways that Otto Octavius never was.

That is Dan Slotts exact words and it pretty much highlights where everything kinda went wrong.. Way before it even started. This is no longer a comic about Spider-Man, but about Otto Octavius.

The idea that this book is all about Otto Octavius will be its downfall, Marvel seems to believe that fans only care about the costume and the title Spider-Man and not the person underneath it. When there is so much evidence to show that they are wrong, did people like the clone saga? is Miles Morles liked by the masses? (Actually I have no idea I met one Miles fan when I was working at my buddies comic shop and she was 11 and never read any Peter Parker stories).

Rereading the interview it made me think of this quote from Atticus Finch "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." I believe Dan Slott is attempting to have Otto try to be Peter live his life and see how he can not and in that he will see how evil he was. Maybe by the end of the run Otto will do something noble and give Peter his mind and body back?

I really do not know how this will turn out but I will say that so far it has been a circus and I think that is what Marvel wanted from the start. I am starting to think that this will be like the Fantastic Four, Johnny dies they make a new title FF and within a year Johnny is back and Fantastic Four started again.

#28 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

The idea that this book is all about Otto Octavius will be its downfall, Marvel seems to believe that fans only care about the costume and the title Spider-Man and not the person underneath it. When there is so much evidence to show that they are wrong, did people like the clone saga? is Miles Morles liked by the masses? (Actually I have no idea I met one Miles fan when I was working at my buddies comic shop and she was 11 and never read any Peter Parker stories).

Rereading the interview it made me think of this quote from Atticus Finch "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." I believe Dan Slott is attempting to have Otto try to be Peter live his life and see how he can not and in that he will see how evil he was. Maybe by the end of the run Otto will do something noble and give Peter his mind and body back?

I really do not know how this will turn out but I will say that so far it has been a circus and I think that is what Marvel wanted from the start. I am starting to think that this will be like the Fantastic Four, Johnny dies they make a new title FF and within a year Johnny is back and Fantastic Four started again.

From what I've seen there's a good chunk of people who like Miles as Ultimate Spider-Man (there was even a good chunk of people who wanted Miles to become the new Amazing Spider-Man) and personally I don't really have a problem with him. I did stop reading USM once he became Spider-Man but that was more because I felt Peter didn't get enough time and not that I didn't like Miles. And once again from what I've seen the majority(but not all) of people who are really excited about Superior are the people who jumped into comics more recently(usually the younger people) and haven't really got to know Peter Parker.

As for Otto seeing the error of his ways I'm a little torn on the issue. On one hand I think any person (real or fictional) finding redemption is a great thing. But for Otto it seems so forced. Even if (when?) he finds redemption there's always the question of was it really HIM that made the decision or is it the remains of Peter? Because really what is someones personality? If you were to take all the memories of one person and implant them into an empty husk and give it life, won't it still be the same person? Which then begs the question is Superior really half Peter half Otto? and if so there's so many creepy things that come with that, like Peter's feelings for MJ(Who for the record I think Slott has done a terrible job with, he's basically made her an idiot...like she wouldn't recognize that the guy she's been married to before starts calling her woman..), Otto's feelings for Aunt May (which we've already seen surface). And the worst part is you never REALLY know where Marvel draws the line...I mean I do remember Ms. Marvel's incestuous rape child/lover thing?....

#29 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

The idea that this book is all about Otto Octavius will be its downfall, Marvel seems to believe that fans only care about the costume and the title Spider-Man and not the person underneath it. When there is so much evidence to show that they are wrong, did people like the clone saga? is Miles Morles liked by the masses? (Actually I have no idea I met one Miles fan when I was working at my buddies comic shop and she was 11 and never read any Peter Parker stories).

Rereading the interview it made me think of this quote from Atticus Finch "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." I believe Dan Slott is attempting to have Otto try to be Peter live his life and see how he can not and in that he will see how evil he was. Maybe by the end of the run Otto will do something noble and give Peter his mind and body back?

I really do not know how this will turn out but I will say that so far it has been a circus and I think that is what Marvel wanted from the start. I am starting to think that this will be like the Fantastic Four, Johnny dies they make a new title FF and within a year Johnny is back and Fantastic Four started again.

From what I've seen there's a good chunk of people who like Miles as Ultimate Spider-Man (there was even a good chunk of people who wanted Miles to become the new Amazing Spider-Man) and personally I don't really have a problem with him. I did stop reading USM once he became Spider-Man but that was more because I felt Peter didn't get enough time and not that I didn't like Miles. And once again from what I've seen the majority(but not all) of people who are really excited about Superior are the people who jumped into comics more recently(usually the younger people) and haven't really got to know Peter Parker.

As for Otto seeing the error of his ways I'm a little torn on the issue. On one hand I think any person (real or fictional) finding redemption is a great thing. But for Otto it seems so forced. Even if (when?) he finds redemption there's always the question of was it really HIM that made the decision or is it the remains of Peter? Because really what is someones personality? If you were to take all the memories of one person and implant them into an empty husk and give it life, won't it still be the same person? Which then begs the question is Superior really half Peter half Otto? and if so there's so many creepy things that come with that, like Peter's feelings for MJ(Who for the record I think Slott has done a terrible job with, he's basically made her an idiot...like she wouldn't recognize that the guy she's been married to before starts calling her woman..), Otto's feelings for Aunt May (which we've already seen surface). And the worst part is you never REALLY know where Marvel draws the line...I mean I do remember Ms. Marvel's incestuous rape child/lover thing?....

Like I said I know nothing about Miles other then the little Spider-Men mini series so I do not really have an opinion of him. I agree with you when you say many of the newer readers are the ones that are excited about SS. I found that to be the case of DC and there new 52 seems that people (I meet and talk to) that love everything about the new 52 have only been into comics for a few years. So the change to them is nothing drastic.

If you look at it NO it will never be him finding redemption on his own or of his own free will. Its Peter forcing him to redeem himself. Its not Otto's redemption its more or less Peters for lack of a better word will making him be a better person. When it comes to MJ, Slott has to walk a fine line here. If he goes the route to shock people and MJ and Ocktospidey get back together with her not nothing its Otto well that is rape and nothing but bad news will come of that. I agree Slott has made MJ stupid for someone that has been so close to Peter for most of her life its ridiculous for us not to believe she would notice the personality change right off the bat. Marvel is a strange one and I mean that it was too far according to Quesada to have Norman rape Gwen in Sins Past (might of made the story a little more bearable if he did) but the idea of having Ms.Marvel one of the strongest female character you have, get knocked up by her future son that was fine or the idea that in the Ultimate universe for Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch to be in love with each other. I just hope they do not go crazy and get MJ knocked up or something stupid like that.

#30 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Like I said I know nothing about Miles other then the little Spider-Men mini series so I do not really have an opinion of him. I agree with you when you say many of the newer readers are the ones that are excited about SS. I found that to be the case of DC and there new 52 seems that people (I meet and talk to) that love everything about the new 52 have only been into comics for a few years. So the change to them is nothing drastic.

If you look at it NO it will never be him finding redemption on his own or of his own free will. Its Peter forcing him to redeem himself. Its not Otto's redemption its more or less Peters for lack of a better word will making him be a better person. When it comes to MJ, Slott has to walk a fine line here. If he goes the route to shock people and MJ and Ocktospidey get back together with her not nothing its Otto well that is rape and nothing but bad news will come of that. I agree Slott has made MJ stupid for someone that has been so close to Peter for most of her life its ridiculous for us not to believe she would notice the personality change right off the bat. Marvel is a strange one and I mean that it was too far according to Quesada to have Norman rape Gwen in Sins Past (might of made the story a little more bearable if he did) but the idea of having Ms.Marvel one of the strongest female character you have, get knocked up by her future son that was fine or the idea that in the Ultimate universe for Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch to be in love with each other. I just hope they do not go crazy and get MJ knocked up or something stupid like that.

Marvel already ruined the image of Gwen Stacy, and if they ruin MJ's image then I think any long to semi long term fan of Spider-Man is gone. I mean really Marvel at this point is just sitting there saying what else can we do to this poor woman? She's lost her child, her marriage, Peter (even if she doesn't know it...yet)...if they have Superior Otto-Man even touch her and then she finds out that it's not actually Peter...then you might as well just kill her because it'd be a lot more friendly thing to do. And with Spider-Man we've all noticed the recurring pattern...Someone new jumps on and does some really cool stuff, then goes crazy and ruins it, then another person jumps on fixes it and does something really cool, then goes crazy and ruins it...It's almost like this is Marvel's plan. Like they WANT Spider-Man to be written this way...

#31 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Like I said I know nothing about Miles other then the little Spider-Men mini series so I do not really have an opinion of him. I agree with you when you say many of the newer readers are the ones that are excited about SS. I found that to be the case of DC and there new 52 seems that people (I meet and talk to) that love everything about the new 52 have only been into comics for a few years. So the change to them is nothing drastic.

If you look at it NO it will never be him finding redemption on his own or of his own free will. Its Peter forcing him to redeem himself. Its not Otto's redemption its more or less Peters for lack of a better word will making him be a better person. When it comes to MJ, Slott has to walk a fine line here. If he goes the route to shock people and MJ and Ocktospidey get back together with her not nothing its Otto well that is rape and nothing but bad news will come of that. I agree Slott has made MJ stupid for someone that has been so close to Peter for most of her life its ridiculous for us not to believe she would notice the personality change right off the bat. Marvel is a strange one and I mean that it was too far according to Quesada to have Norman rape Gwen in Sins Past (might of made the story a little more bearable if he did) but the idea of having Ms.Marvel one of the strongest female character you have, get knocked up by her future son that was fine or the idea that in the Ultimate universe for Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch to be in love with each other. I just hope they do not go crazy and get MJ knocked up or something stupid like that.

Marvel already ruined the image of Gwen Stacy, and if they ruin MJ's image then I think any long to semi long term fan of Spider-Man is gone. I mean really Marvel at this point is just sitting there saying what else can we do to this poor woman? She's lost her child, her marriage, Peter (even if she doesn't know it...yet)...if they have Superior Otto-Man even touch her and then she finds out that it's not actually Peter...then you might as well just kill her because it'd be a lot more friendly thing to do. And with Spider-Man we've all noticed the recurring pattern...Someone new jumps on and does some really cool stuff, then goes crazy and ruins it, then another person jumps on fixes it and does something really cool, then goes crazy and ruins it...It's almost like this is Marvel's plan. Like they WANT Spider-Man to be written this way...

You bring up a great point and that is writers seem to overstay there welcome on Spidey, I think when that happens they get burnt out and the editor takes it a pawn himself to shake up the status quo. I mean JMS had a great thing going Peter was mature and I liked how he wrote the marriage. When he was getting burnt out Quesada came in and ruined his Sins Past story (originally Peter was the father) then with the grand idea that Peter always needs to be single for the book to be popular and OMD happens sales have never gotten back to the peak they were with JMS run. Right now maybe that is what they need a new writer personally I want Hickman, I loved every single issue of Fantastic Four and FF he wrote. He proved that you can have a long run on a comic that has a slow building story be interesting and bring all the character closer he strengthens the FF after the death of Johnny, making Reed see that he needs to be there more for his family and when Johnny came back the message was not lost on Reed. I also think he left the book at the right time he told his epic it was amazing I loved every issue and I was blissfully content with the way he ended it. I think that is the type of writer that needs to take over Spidey.

#32 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

You bring up a great point and that is writers seem to overstay there welcome on Spidey, I think when that happens they get burnt out and the editor takes it a pawn himself to shake up the status quo. I mean JMS had a great thing going Peter was mature and I liked how he wrote the marriage. When he was getting burnt out Quesada came in and ruined his Sins Past story (originally Peter was the father) then with the grand idea that Peter always needs to be single for the book to be popular and OMD happens sales have never gotten back to the peak they were with JMS run. Right now maybe that is what they need a new writer personally I want Hickman, I loved every single issue of Fantastic Four and FF he wrote. He proved that you can have a long run on a comic that has a slow building story be interesting and bring all the character closer he strengthens the FF after the death of Johnny, making Reed see that he needs to be there more for his family and when Johnny came back the message was not lost on Reed. I also think he left the book at the right time he told his epic it was amazing I loved every issue and I was blissfully content with the way he ended it. I think that is the type of writer that needs to take over Spidey.

Having Hickman on Spider-Man would be like a dream come true! Oh man it would be like Gerry Conway's run all over again! and he technically already has experience writing Spider-Man!....ah if only.... But I don't see that happening, unless maybe he's the one to replace Slott once SSM tanks... I think as a requirement to be a writer or editor for Spider-Man you have to A. actually like him more than any of his villains or supporting characters and B. already at some point in another comic write him and do a good job at it... But man Hickman...I was never even remotely a fan of the Fantastic Family but FF was just so good you can't help but love it... he's doing Avengers and New Avengers now right? I'm not too sure about the art for avengers but the story seems pretty solid so far.

#33 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

You bring up a great point and that is writers seem to overstay there welcome on Spidey, I think when that happens they get burnt out and the editor takes it a pawn himself to shake up the status quo. I mean JMS had a great thing going Peter was mature and I liked how he wrote the marriage. When he was getting burnt out Quesada came in and ruined his Sins Past story (originally Peter was the father) then with the grand idea that Peter always needs to be single for the book to be popular and OMD happens sales have never gotten back to the peak they were with JMS run. Right now maybe that is what they need a new writer personally I want Hickman, I loved every single issue of Fantastic Four and FF he wrote. He proved that you can have a long run on a comic that has a slow building story be interesting and bring all the character closer he strengthens the FF after the death of Johnny, making Reed see that he needs to be there more for his family and when Johnny came back the message was not lost on Reed. I also think he left the book at the right time he told his epic it was amazing I loved every issue and I was blissfully content with the way he ended it. I think that is the type of writer that needs to take over Spidey.

Having Hickman on Spider-Man would be like a dream come true! Oh man it would be like Gerry Conway's run all over again! and he technically already has experience writing Spider-Man!....ah if only.... But I don't see that happening, unless maybe he's the one to replace Slott once SSM tanks... I think as a requirement to be a writer or editor for Spider-Man you have to A. actually like him more than any of his villains or supporting characters and B. already at some point in another comic write him and do a good job at it... But man Hickman...I was never even remotely a fan of the Fantastic Family but FF was just so good you can't help but love it... he's doing Avengers and New Avengers now right? I'm not too sure about the art for avengers but the story seems pretty solid so far.

Your right he did write Spidey and I thought he did do a good job in all the FF issues he was in. Well I was speaking to the owner of one of the biggest comic shops in Toronto and he was saying that he is surprised how slow the sales of ASM 700 are. He actually told me if he knew sales would be like this he would of ordered half as many SS. So maybe it will not last as long as we think if sales are slow of the kick off book. If Marvel Now was all about getting new readers how the hell is Otto being Spider-Man going to attracted the casual fan or teenage fans of the movies? so right there its set up to fail, if you can not attract new readers and you pissed of say 15 to 20 percent of old readers that use 700 as a jumping point to leave the title your screwed. This secret trick Dan Slott saved for the first issue of SS better be huge or its doomed from the start.

I am really excited for the New Avengers how Hickman is going to bring back the illuminati. I love the addition of Black Panther to the ranks and I hope that Hickman can sort out this Storm/Black Panther mess I like them being married. I actually have not gotten a chance to read the first 2 issues of Avengers yet I am hoping to do so this weekend.

#34 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Your right he did write Spidey and I thought he did do a good job in all the FF issues he was in. Well I was speaking to the owner of one of the biggest comic shops in Toronto and he was saying that he is surprised how slow the sales of ASM 700 are. He actually told me if he knew sales would be like this he would of ordered half as many SS. So maybe it will not last as long as we think if sales are slow of the kick off book. If Marvel Now was all about getting new readers how the hell is Otto being Spider-Man going to attracted the casual fan or teenage fans of the movies? so right there its set up to fail, if you can not attract new readers and you pissed of say 15 to 20 percent of old readers that use 700 as a jumping point to leave the title your screwed. This secret trick Dan Slott saved for the first issue of SS better be huge or its doomed from the start.

I am really excited for the New Avengers how Hickman is going to bring back the illuminati. I love the addition of Black Panther to the ranks and I hope that Hickman can sort out this Storm/Black Panther mess I like them being married. I actually have not gotten a chance to read the first 2 issues of Avengers yet I am hoping to do so this weekend.

The thing is though is I don't think that it actually says anywhere on the cover or synopsis for SSM that Peter is no longer Spider-Man, so if for whatever reason a new or casual fan goes to pick up this series they might not even know about the change...and depending on HOW they write it, they might not even once they've read through it. And as for Slott secret trick...I don't really buy it. I mean he said the same thing about 700, but it was pretty obvious what was going to happen after 699 (and really at that point fans were just hoping it was a sick joke). And you can't sell a reliable product on "oooh look I'm going to do something shocking". And even if you could why would you want to? If you have to rely on after sale excitement to sell your product then your doing something wrong. I mean whenever he's asked about being worried that fans aren't going to buy SSM is response is always along the lines of "I think after “Superior Spider-Man” No. 1, they’ll be back. We still have one more trick up our sleeve." I think he forgets that the internet exists and if I really want to find out what happens I can just jump on a forum and look...or ask...

And I think the low sales of ASM 700 had more to do with it being released early on the internet and then everyone talking about it. I mean as soon as I heard that it was leaked I literally just stayed offline until it came out because the internet kinda ruined the last one for me. As for New Avengers I can also not wait. I think it's going to be great. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the X-Men Representative. If you don't know I won't ruin it, but it leaves me kinda conflicted. Really Storm or Logan should have been it, because although they weren't one of the originals (none of the originals other than Bobby are really in a good mentally or physically healthy position to do it anyways) I think right now between the two of them the majority of mutants are looking to them for guidance.

#35 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if Dan Slott really believes in this switch, it should stay. I know there is some serious hate looming. Even I feel indifferent about how the book turned out but I'm completely against a character being switched up just because fanboys want to cry about how their hearts have been ripped out.

#36 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

I think if Dan Slott really believes in this switch, it should stay. I know there is some serious hate looming. Even I feel indifferent about how the book turned out but I'm completely against a character being switched up just because fanboys want to cry about how their hearts have been ripped out.

Have you read the issue or storyline in question? See were my problem comes with it is really the story itself the pacing was all wrong and when the ending happens it was expected its not really shocking just silly and when a comic leaves you looking for extra pages that is not a good thing.

I think if this switch was going to be forever they would of never made it into this circus it is. This is one of those things were Dan Slott has his back against the wall and has to deliver quickly. It can not be story were Ottospidey is running around for 5 years because people will not care for the gimmick for that length of time.

#37 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Your right he did write Spidey and I thought he did do a good job in all the FF issues he was in. Well I was speaking to the owner of one of the biggest comic shops in Toronto and he was saying that he is surprised how slow the sales of ASM 700 are. He actually told me if he knew sales would be like this he would of ordered half as many SS. So maybe it will not last as long as we think if sales are slow of the kick off book. If Marvel Now was all about getting new readers how the hell is Otto being Spider-Man going to attracted the casual fan or teenage fans of the movies? so right there its set up to fail, if you can not attract new readers and you pissed of say 15 to 20 percent of old readers that use 700 as a jumping point to leave the title your screwed. This secret trick Dan Slott saved for the first issue of SS better be huge or its doomed from the start.

I am really excited for the New Avengers how Hickman is going to bring back the illuminati. I love the addition of Black Panther to the ranks and I hope that Hickman can sort out this Storm/Black Panther mess I like them being married. I actually have not gotten a chance to read the first 2 issues of Avengers yet I am hoping to do so this weekend.

The thing is though is I don't think that it actually says anywhere on the cover or synopsis for SSM that Peter is no longer Spider-Man, so if for whatever reason a new or casual fan goes to pick up this series they might not even know about the change...and depending on HOW they write it, they might not even once they've read through it. And as for Slott secret trick...I don't really buy it. I mean he said the same thing about 700, but it was pretty obvious what was going to happen after 699 (and really at that point fans were just hoping it was a sick joke). And you can't sell a reliable product on "oooh look I'm going to do something shocking". And even if you could why would you want to? If you have to rely on after sale excitement to sell your product then your doing something wrong. I mean whenever he's asked about being worried that fans aren't going to buy SSM is response is always along the lines of "I think after “Superior Spider-Man” No. 1, they’ll be back. We still have one more trick up our sleeve." I think he forgets that the internet exists and if I really want to find out what happens I can just jump on a forum and look...or ask...

And I think the low sales of ASM 700 had more to do with it being released early on the internet and then everyone talking about it. I mean as soon as I heard that it was leaked I literally just stayed offline until it came out because the internet kinda ruined the last one for me. As for New Avengers I can also not wait. I think it's going to be great. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the X-Men Representative. If you don't know I won't ruin it, but it leaves me kinda conflicted. Really Storm or Logan should have been it, because although they weren't one of the originals (none of the originals other than Bobby are really in a good mentally or physically healthy position to do it anyways) I think right now between the two of them the majority of mutants are looking to them for guidance.

Well the first page of SS one (they had the preview) is Otto Parker visiting his grave saying what a failure he was in his past life so when people buy a comic many thumb threw the book quickly and they will notice it. Also if they write OcktoSpidey like they did in Avenging 15.1 people will notice, not going to lie that book might be my jumping off point I HATED how he was written so he is the same as always was a prick (my hopes is Slott will write him different). You are right what I think might be happening is that Dan Slott might want that to happen I think the ending of SSM one we might see Peter and I mean the real Peter. Ether Doctor Strange will get a vision or that kid at horizon Uatu's machine to talk to the dead will work. That will be Slott's trump card to help sales but will that be enough?

Its a combination of things, many will want the book just because they think it will be worth money one day (it will not be the print run is HUGE) but I think many of the monthly buyers simple read the spoilers and said nope its not something I am interested in. I will admit I have read "Dying Wish" twice now and each time I fail to see why Slott is so proud of it. I mean the pacing is a mess and the grand finally is a dud. The change doesn't feel like anything but a gimmick and the comic industry has played that game so often now that people are getting sick of it. I think comic fans now want stories like Hawkeye comics that relies on good story telling and forgets about shock value.

New Avengers is going to be awesome I have high expectations for that book. I believe Beast is the Xmen rep not a fan of him? I really hope they fix Black Panther and Storm's marriage in it. I understand that all comic couple go threw a separation period but I can't see this one lasting long because well not to be PC here but there is no powerful black couples in Marvel without them.

#38 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Well the first page of SS one (they had the preview) is Otto Parker visiting his grave saying what a failure he was in his past life so when people buy a comic many thumb threw the book quickly and they will notice it. Also if they write OcktoSpidey like they did in Avenging 15.1 people will notice, not going to lie that book might be my jumping off point I HATED how he was written so he is the same as always was a prick (my hopes is Slott will write him different). You are right what I think might be happening is that Dan Slott might want that to happen I think the ending of SSM one we might see Peter and I mean the real Peter. Ether Doctor Strange will get a vision or that kid at horizon Uatu's machine to talk to the dead will work. That will be Slott's trump card to help sales but will that be enough?

Its a combination of things, many will want the book just because they think it will be worth money one day (it will not be the print run is HUGE) but I think many of the monthly buyers simple read the spoilers and said nope its not something I am interested in. I will admit I have read "Dying Wish" twice now and each time I fail to see why Slott is so proud of it. I mean the pacing is a mess and the grand finally is a dud. The change doesn't feel like anything but a gimmick and the comic industry has played that game so often now that people are getting sick of it. I think comic fans now want stories like Hawkeye comics that relies on good story telling and forgets about shock value.

New Avengers is going to be awesome I have high expectations for that book. I believe Beast is the Xmen rep not a fan of him? I really hope they fix Black Panther and Storm's marriage in it. I understand that all comic couple go threw a separation period but I can't see this one lasting long because well not to be PC here but there is no powerful black couples in Marvel without them.

We're going to see the real Peter... EVENTUALLY. Dan Slott keeps saying he won't come back and that fans are grasping at nothing, that he cancelled ASM and made SSM to show that Peter was gone but..if there's one thing we've all learned it's that Spider-Man is bigger than any one person who has wrote him. You are so right about Dying Wish. I had this discussion yesterday with a friend on how it's his worst series in ASM. I enjoyed Kraven's First Hunt, the recent one about the Lizard was cool (kinda finally gave you a look inside Connors' head) New Ways to Die was OK I wasn't a big fan. Alpha was ridiculously dumb...and completely out of character for Spider-Man. I absolutely loved Ends of the Earth, I thought it was perfectly Spider-Man AND it made him grow as a character. Spider Island was...Interesting I enjoyed it. But compare Dying Wish to any of those and it get's blown outta the water. He had such a great run right up until the end...then it was just weak.

As for Beast, it's not that I don't like him...It's just I don't really see him as either a leader or a figurehead. Sure he's smart, but so is Spidey and as much as I love him he'd probably be the worst person to be on the Illuminati. As for Storm and Panther, I've talked to a lot of people who don't want them together. Me personally I don't really know too much about Panther (I don't even know if he's a mutant or a meta-human), but I love Storm and she's been kinda down lately, and I think she deserves some happiness and if that's Black Panther then why not. Honestly if not him then who?

#39 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Well the first page of SS one (they had the preview) is Otto Parker visiting his grave saying what a failure he was in his past life so when people buy a comic many thumb threw the book quickly and they will notice it. Also if they write OcktoSpidey like they did in Avenging 15.1 people will notice, not going to lie that book might be my jumping off point I HATED how he was written so he is the same as always was a prick (my hopes is Slott will write him different). You are right what I think might be happening is that Dan Slott might want that to happen I think the ending of SSM one we might see Peter and I mean the real Peter. Ether Doctor Strange will get a vision or that kid at horizon Uatu's machine to talk to the dead will work. That will be Slott's trump card to help sales but will that be enough?

Its a combination of things, many will want the book just because they think it will be worth money one day (it will not be the print run is HUGE) but I think many of the monthly buyers simple read the spoilers and said nope its not something I am interested in. I will admit I have read "Dying Wish" twice now and each time I fail to see why Slott is so proud of it. I mean the pacing is a mess and the grand finally is a dud. The change doesn't feel like anything but a gimmick and the comic industry has played that game so often now that people are getting sick of it. I think comic fans now want stories like Hawkeye comics that relies on good story telling and forgets about shock value.

New Avengers is going to be awesome I have high expectations for that book. I believe Beast is the Xmen rep not a fan of him? I really hope they fix Black Panther and Storm's marriage in it. I understand that all comic couple go threw a separation period but I can't see this one lasting long because well not to be PC here but there is no powerful black couples in Marvel without them.

We're going to see the real Peter... EVENTUALLY. Dan Slott keeps saying he won't come back and that fans are grasping at nothing, that he cancelled ASM and made SSM to show that Peter was gone but..if there's one thing we've all learned it's that Spider-Man is bigger than any one person who has wrote him. You are so right about Dying Wish. I had this discussion yesterday with a friend on how it's his worst series in ASM. I enjoyed Kraven's First Hunt, the recent one about the Lizard was cool (kinda finally gave you a look inside Connors' head) New Ways to Die was OK I wasn't a big fan. Alpha was ridiculously dumb...and completely out of character for Spider-Man. I absolutely loved Ends of the Earth, I thought it was perfectly Spider-Man AND it made him grow as a character. Spider Island was...Interesting I enjoyed it. But compare Dying Wish to any of those and it get's blown outta the water. He had such a great run right up until the end...then it was just weak.

As for Beast, it's not that I don't like him...It's just I don't really see him as either a leader or a figurehead. Sure he's smart, but so is Spidey and as much as I love him he'd probably be the worst person to be on the Illuminati. As for Storm and Panther, I've talked to a lot of people who don't want them together. Me personally I don't really know too much about Panther (I don't even know if he's a mutant or a meta-human), but I love Storm and she's been kinda down lately, and I think she deserves some happiness and if that's Black Panther then why not. Honestly if not him then who?

Way I see it, Johnny Storm died and so did the Fantastic Four they ended that book and started FF I believe it was 9 issues before Johnny came back and then there was two books that really had two sides to a story (again I loved every panel of Hickman`s FF and F4 so no complaints) I believe this will be much the same. There might be two Spidey books for a while I could see maybe after Peter returns they might keep Ock as a hero in a new body or a clone body (I hope not).

You are right there as many fun stories Dan Slott wrote, I agree that Alpha was a weak one and now he is going to get a mini series because surprise surprise SSM gives Alpha his powers back. I liked Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth a lot but Dying wish was missing the charm it had pacing issues and the idea behind it had huge flaws (How could a man that could not breath on his own have the mental capacity to come up with this brain switch plan?). Dan Slott had a good run it was not the most memorable run but it was fun. Now with this ending he went for the shock factor they wanted the CNN story and the mainstream media attention but like the death of Superman it looks like it will be a flop but only time will tell.

I think we are going to start seeing a more desperate Beast his mutation is starting to kill him (I am unsure if its truly killing him or if he is going to kill of his mind and he will become a full beast) So maybe that fact will take him out of his calm demeanor and you can see how in the most desperate of times even a more meek character can become a great leader? Well they did fight a lot but the way I see there separation is that they are both guilty of it so a break might do a world of good for them and they can come back stronger (like Sue and Reed in the 60's when she hated being famous). Thing is I do not know what Marvel is doing I read A+X and one page they have Storm and Black Panther having a race like old times and he calls her "my love" there both happy but then there is an ad for Wolverine and the X men were Storm is making out with Wolverine in it.

#40 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Way I see it, Johnny Storm died and so did the Fantastic Four they ended that book and started FF I believe it was 9 issues before Johnny came back and then there was two books that really had two sides to a story (again I loved every panel of Hickman`s FF and F4 so no complaints) I believe this will be much the same. There might be two Spidey books for a while I could see maybe after Peter returns they might keep Ock as a hero in a new body or a clone body (I hope not).

You are right there as many fun stories Dan Slott wrote, I agree that Alpha was a weak one and now he is going to get a mini series because surprise surprise SSM gives Alpha his powers back. I liked Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth a lot but Dying wish was missing the charm it had pacing issues and the idea behind it had huge flaws (How could a man that could not breath on his own have the mental capacity to come up with this brain switch plan?). Dan Slott had a good run it was not the most memorable run but it was fun. Now with this ending he went for the shock factor they wanted the CNN story and the mainstream media attention but like the death of Superman it looks like it will be a flop but only time will tell.

I think we are going to start seeing a more desperate Beast his mutation is starting to kill him (I am unsure if its truly killing him or if he is going to kill of his mind and he will become a full beast) So maybe that fact will take him out of his calm demeanor and you can see how in the most desperate of times even a more meek character can become a great leader? Well they did fight a lot but the way I see there separation is that they are both guilty of it so a break might do a world of good for them and they can come back stronger (like Sue and Reed in the 60's when she hated being famous). Thing is I do not know what Marvel is doing I read A+X and one page they have Storm and Black Panther having a race like old times and he calls her "my love" there both happy but then there is an ad for Wolverine and the X men were Storm is making out with Wolverine in it.

That's right he was only dead for 9 issues, seems so short when you look back...I don't really remember very many people freaking out about his death though. It was kinda like man that's a bummer. SSM giving Alpha his power back...See that doesn't seem like something Peter OR Otto would do...Peter because he removed them for a reason and Otto because...well he's Otto I don't think he'd EVER give someone else more power than him. Unfortunately for Slott he had a pretty good run, but all most people are going to remember him for is killing Amazing Spider-Man. Personally I think SSM is just going to be that series that everyone remembers as being "that What If Doc Ock became Spidey series".

I've never really thought that Sue and Reed make a good couple...mostly because I don't think Reed has the attention span for anything that's not science. But that aside it's kind of hard to see where Marvel is going with this whole relationship...mostly because I think they themselves are either conflicted on the issue or just really enjoy messing with their readers...

#41 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Way I see it, Johnny Storm died and so did the Fantastic Four they ended that book and started FF I believe it was 9 issues before Johnny came back and then there was two books that really had two sides to a story (again I loved every panel of Hickman`s FF and F4 so no complaints) I believe this will be much the same. There might be two Spidey books for a while I could see maybe after Peter returns they might keep Ock as a hero in a new body or a clone body (I hope not).

You are right there as many fun stories Dan Slott wrote, I agree that Alpha was a weak one and now he is going to get a mini series because surprise surprise SSM gives Alpha his powers back. I liked Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth a lot but Dying wish was missing the charm it had pacing issues and the idea behind it had huge flaws (How could a man that could not breath on his own have the mental capacity to come up with this brain switch plan?). Dan Slott had a good run it was not the most memorable run but it was fun. Now with this ending he went for the shock factor they wanted the CNN story and the mainstream media attention but like the death of Superman it looks like it will be a flop but only time will tell.

I think we are going to start seeing a more desperate Beast his mutation is starting to kill him (I am unsure if its truly killing him or if he is going to kill of his mind and he will become a full beast) So maybe that fact will take him out of his calm demeanor and you can see how in the most desperate of times even a more meek character can become a great leader? Well they did fight a lot but the way I see there separation is that they are both guilty of it so a break might do a world of good for them and they can come back stronger (like Sue and Reed in the 60's when she hated being famous). Thing is I do not know what Marvel is doing I read A+X and one page they have Storm and Black Panther having a race like old times and he calls her "my love" there both happy but then there is an ad for Wolverine and the X men were Storm is making out with Wolverine in it.

That's right he was only dead for 9 issues, seems so short when you look back...I don't really remember very many people freaking out about his death though. It was kinda like man that's a bummer. SSM giving Alpha his power back...See that doesn't seem like something Peter OR Otto would do...Peter because he removed them for a reason and Otto because...well he's Otto I don't think he'd EVER give someone else more power than him. Unfortunately for Slott he had a pretty good run, but all most people are going to remember him for is killing Amazing Spider-Man. Personally I think SSM is just going to be that series that everyone remembers as being "that What If Doc Ock became Spidey series".

I've never really thought that Sue and Reed make a good couple...mostly because I don't think Reed has the attention span for anything that's not science. But that aside it's kind of hard to see where Marvel is going with this whole relationship...mostly because I think they themselves are either conflicted on the issue or just really enjoy messing with their readers...

People did not freak out when Johnny died because he had a heroes death in every sense. He sacrificed himself for his family its a very noble thing to do. Where Spidey's was nothing like that it was quick and left you scratching you head wondering if there was a printing error. No its just Marvel wants a new smart ass teenage hero and Alpha fits the bill, problem is does anyone like him? I mean he kind of shows what is wrong with the youth of the world. Dan Slott has put everything on the line here it will make or break his run. Ether he will be a master mind that crafted an amazing story or he will be the guy that screwed up Spider-Man for another era of comic fans. I guess time will tell now.

See I am on the opposite side of the fence. I love Sue and Reed as a couple in fact I think that is the most important part of the Fantastic Four comic. Well I always remember an old what if comic were it was what if Sue died. Science is Reeds plaything were Sue is his anchor in life. She keeps him balanced because if he loses that balance he could be deadly. I think what killed Reed as a good person in many peoples eyes is he was unlikable in the Civil War well he did sacrifice himself for Sue in the end so he loves her to death :p, Iron Man was much the same but he got good press by the movies being so successful and getting a comic that showed him in a good light (I will admit I still hate Iron Man for the Civil War he was a monster in it). I agree with you I believe its like half the editors want couples the other half don't so they screw around till one side give in.

#42 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

People did not freak out when Johnny died because he had a heroes death in every sense. He sacrificed himself for his family its a very noble thing to do. Where Spidey's was nothing like that it was quick and left you scratching you head wondering if there was a printing error. No its just Marvel wants a new smart ass teenage hero and Alpha fits the bill, problem is does anyone like him? I mean he kind of shows what is wrong with the youth of the world. Dan Slott has put everything on the line here it will make or break his run. Ether he will be a master mind that crafted an amazing story or he will be the guy that screwed up Spider-Man for another era of comic fans. I guess time will tell now.

See I am on the opposite side of the fence. I love Sue and Reed as a couple in fact I think that is the most important part of the Fantastic Four comic. Well I always remember an old what if comic were it was what if Sue died. Science is Reeds plaything were Sue is his anchor in life. She keeps him balanced because if he loses that balance he could be deadly. I think what killed Reed as a good person in many peoples eyes is he was unlikable in the Civil War well he did sacrifice himself for Sue in the end so he loves her to death :p, Iron Man was much the same but he got good press by the movies being so successful and getting a comic that showed him in a good light (I will admit I still hate Iron Man for the Civil War he was a monster in it). I agree with you I believe its like half the editors want couples the other half don't so they screw around till one side give in.

That's a good point about dying a heroic death, kinda like USM Peter.And the thing about Spidey was he wasn't a smart ass teenager, for the most part he was really only a smart ass when he put on the costume. He was still respectful as Peter. I don't really mind that Alpha's a smart ass, because most people are when they're a teen...it's he's not a Hero. He's this uber over powered super hero that cared more for fame than anything. I mean Spider-Man comes along and says i'll teach you and eventually you'll be an avenger most people would be like #*%@ Yeah! I'll do whatever you say! But Alpha's like nah ima already better than all you...Who really wants to read about an asshole? (Slott that's directed at you...) Cuz I certainly don't. I can just look out my window and pick a random person if i want that...

Civil War ruined Iron Man for me, absolutely ruined. From manipulating Spidey (cuz let's face it Peter IDOLIZED Tony Stark...) to just his entire plan... Reed not so much because I can understand that in reality I'd make the same decision if I had a family. Also there's no reason for him to REALLY oppose it seeing has everyone knows who the Fantastic Four are...See I always felt like Sue got with Reed because she HAD to. She HAD to get with someone on the team and it wasn't gonna be her brother or the Thing..so it HAS to be Reed. And then they just kinda worked from there. That's just my opinion though. I know a lot of people disagree, but I'm an American and as a result I'm very opinionated..

#43 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

People did not freak out when Johnny died because he had a heroes death in every sense. He sacrificed himself for his family its a very noble thing to do. Where Spidey's was nothing like that it was quick and left you scratching you head wondering if there was a printing error. No its just Marvel wants a new smart ass teenage hero and Alpha fits the bill, problem is does anyone like him? I mean he kind of shows what is wrong with the youth of the world. Dan Slott has put everything on the line here it will make or break his run. Ether he will be a master mind that crafted an amazing story or he will be the guy that screwed up Spider-Man for another era of comic fans. I guess time will tell now.

See I am on the opposite side of the fence. I love Sue and Reed as a couple in fact I think that is the most important part of the Fantastic Four comic. Well I always remember an old what if comic were it was what if Sue died. Science is Reeds plaything were Sue is his anchor in life. She keeps him balanced because if he loses that balance he could be deadly. I think what killed Reed as a good person in many peoples eyes is he was unlikable in the Civil War well he did sacrifice himself for Sue in the end so he loves her to death :p, Iron Man was much the same but he got good press by the movies being so successful and getting a comic that showed him in a good light (I will admit I still hate Iron Man for the Civil War he was a monster in it). I agree with you I believe its like half the editors want couples the other half don't so they screw around till one side give in.

That's a good point about dying a heroic death, kinda like USM Peter.And the thing about Spidey was he wasn't a smart ass teenager, for the most part he was really only a smart ass when he put on the costume. He was still respectful as Peter. I don't really mind that Alpha's a smart ass, because most people are when they're a teen...it's he's not a Hero. He's this uber over powered super hero that cared more for fame than anything. I mean Spider-Man comes along and says i'll teach you and eventually you'll be an avenger most people would be like #*%@ Yeah! I'll do whatever you say! But Alpha's like nah ima already better than all you...Who really wants to read about an asshole? (Slott that's directed at you...) Cuz I certainly don't. I can just look out my window and pick a random person if i want that...

Civil War ruined Iron Man for me, absolutely ruined. From manipulating Spidey (cuz let's face it Peter IDOLIZED Tony Stark...) to just his entire plan... Reed not so much because I can understand that in reality I'd make the same decision if I had a family. Also there's no reason for him to REALLY oppose it seeing has everyone knows who the Fantastic Four are...See I always felt like Sue got with Reed because she HAD to. She HAD to get with someone on the team and it wasn't gonna be her brother or the Thing..so it HAS to be Reed. And then they just kinda worked from there. That's just my opinion though. I know a lot of people disagree, but I'm an American and as a result I'm very opinionated..

Yeah he was wise cracking as Spidey and I have never felt it went over the edge to were he comes across as a jerk or you just want him to shut up (Love Deadpool but sometimes they need to give him less jokes). Alpha is not hero at his core and that is his biggest problem he is like many were as teen's angry at the world (Especially now he lost his powers) and I do not think he could be a hero let alone a respected hero, but with this silly mini series coming out I bet Ocktospidey will be like everyone deserves a second chance so why not Alpha and that attitude is going to get old fast. I mean didn't Ocktospidey punch someones jaw off? who is he to be couching someone to be a hero?

I see it the same way Iron Man was ruined in the Civil War storyline he was unlikable and controlled his team like he was some sort of puppet master. He ruined Peters life and I think people should blame him for the train wreck of OMD because if not for the un masking no one would of had to think of that idea. Were Reed on the other had was thinking of his family first that is a noble thing so I can not hold it against the character and the writers that made his personality switch during the arc. I may of not liked what he was becoming but in the end he saved his wife's life and showed he was still the same person that Sue loves. Well I remember reading old F4 comics and they show Sue and Reed in university and he was like the stud on campus and she was surprised that he chose her. Honestly tho I look at the story of how Stan Lee made the Fantastic Four and I am pretty sure he based Reed off himself (hair is a dead give away) and Sue of his wife, so if that was true there was always that fact that they were created to be together.

#44 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Yeah he was wise cracking as Spidey and I have never felt it went over the edge to were he comes across as a jerk or you just want him to shut up (Love Deadpool but sometimes they need to give him less jokes). Alpha is not hero at his core and that is his biggest problem he is like many were as teen's angry at the world (Especially now he lost his powers) and I do not think he could be a hero let alone a respected hero, but with this silly mini series coming out I bet Ocktospidey will be like everyone deserves a second chance so why not Alpha and that attitude is going to get old fast. I mean didn't Ocktospidey punch someones jaw off? who is he to be couching someone to be a hero?

I see it the same way Iron Man was ruined in the Civil War storyline he was unlikable and controlled his team like he was some sort of puppet master. He ruined Peters life and I think people should blame him for the train wreck of OMD because if not for the un masking no one would of had to think of that idea. Were Reed on the other had was thinking of his family first that is a noble thing so I can not hold it against the character and the writers that made his personality switch during the arc. I may of not liked what he was becoming but in the end he saved his wife's life and showed he was still the same person that Sue loves. Well I remember reading old F4 comics and they show Sue and Reed in university and he was like the stud on campus and she was surprised that he chose her. Honestly tho I look at the story of how Stan Lee made the Fantastic Four and I am pretty sure he based Reed off himself (hair is a dead give away) and Sue of his wife, so if that was true there was always that fact that they were created to be together.

From what we've already seen of Superior, he's kind of mental. One minute he's Doc Ock arrogance and all then the next he's saving someone, then the next he's punching peoples jaws off...

I think what what irritates me the most about Iron Man was that Post Civil War after all he had done...there were no consequences, he was the Director of SHIELD and he was perfectly fine. Meanwhile Spider-Man is making deals with the Devil... And I completely agree that Reed and Sue were created to be together, and I think that's what bothers me. It feels like their together because their suppose to be.

#45 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Yeah he was wise cracking as Spidey and I have never felt it went over the edge to were he comes across as a jerk or you just want him to shut up (Love Deadpool but sometimes they need to give him less jokes). Alpha is not hero at his core and that is his biggest problem he is like many were as teen's angry at the world (Especially now he lost his powers) and I do not think he could be a hero let alone a respected hero, but with this silly mini series coming out I bet Ocktospidey will be like everyone deserves a second chance so why not Alpha and that attitude is going to get old fast. I mean didn't Ocktospidey punch someones jaw off? who is he to be couching someone to be a hero?

I see it the same way Iron Man was ruined in the Civil War storyline he was unlikable and controlled his team like he was some sort of puppet master. He ruined Peters life and I think people should blame him for the train wreck of OMD because if not for the un masking no one would of had to think of that idea. Were Reed on the other had was thinking of his family first that is a noble thing so I can not hold it against the character and the writers that made his personality switch during the arc. I may of not liked what he was becoming but in the end he saved his wife's life and showed he was still the same person that Sue loves. Well I remember reading old F4 comics and they show Sue and Reed in university and he was like the stud on campus and she was surprised that he chose her. Honestly tho I look at the story of how Stan Lee made the Fantastic Four and I am pretty sure he based Reed off himself (hair is a dead give away) and Sue of his wife, so if that was true there was always that fact that they were created to be together.

From what we've already seen of Superior, he's kind of mental. One minute he's Doc Ock arrogance and all then the next he's saving someone, then the next he's punching peoples jaws off...

I think what what irritates me the most about Iron Man was that Post Civil War after all he had done...there were no consequences, he was the Director of SHIELD and he was perfectly fine. Meanwhile Spider-Man is making deals with the Devil... And I completely agree that Reed and Sue were created to be together, and I think that's what bothers me. It feels like their together because their suppose to be.

Yeah that does seem to be true I mean I love how Dan Slott says the whole universe will think of Spider-Man as this grand hero yet in the preview for the first issue he get punched once by SpeedDemon and says well I am leaving. So someone tell me how is he a hero again?

Agreed for Tony there was no consequences he ruined many peoples lives and nothing happened to him. Worst of all he seemed to not of even cared in the slightest because it was for his country. Lets hope in SSM since Peter is "dead" he can revisit that deal and get out of it. Lol something are like that and Stan Lee created my couples that are simple meant to be (Scott and Jean would be another) biggest issue with Sue and Reed they are at a point were you can not break them up if you did so you would destroy the fabric of the F4 title. As you can tell I am a pretty big supporter of the Richards family.

#46 Edited by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

Yeah that does seem to be true I mean I love how Dan Slott says the whole universe will think of Spider-Man as this grand hero yet in the preview for the first issue he get punched once by SpeedDemon and says well I am leaving. So someone tell me how is he a hero again?

Agreed for Tony there was no consequences he ruined many peoples lives and nothing happened to him. Worst of all he seemed to not of even cared in the slightest because it was for his country. Lets hope in SSM since Peter is "dead" he can revisit that deal and get out of it. Lol something are like that and Stan Lee created my couples that are simple meant to be (Scott and Jean would be another) biggest issue with Sue and Reed they are at a point were you can not break them up if you did so you would destroy the fabric of the F4 title. As you can tell I am a pretty big supporter of the Richards family.

No matter what when Peter comes back, however he does it, he should remember before his deal with Mephisto. I mean the guy died...isn't that enough punishment? And as much as I don't like Sue and Reed, I realize they'll stay together and I don't expect them not to, i mean their entire life and that of the FF kind of in a way revolves around their marriage. Hopefully this next series will make like him a little better (but already it's not looking that way..) As for Tony...I honestly don't read Iron Man anymore and whenever I read him in anything (like Avengers) I feel this sudden urge to stop reading...there might be a correlation. I like him a little better in the Ultimate verse. I might just have to go back to reading the Ultimate verse...Depends on if New Avengers is super awesome or not.

"It’s the 50 anniversary of the Children of the Atom! When Spider-Man turned 50, Peter Parker lost his spot to Doctor Octopus…what do we have planned for Marvel’s mutants?

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/19892/13_reasons_to_look_forward_to_marvel_in_2013#ixzz2GmIIyEex"

Also this ^ worries me.

#47 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc: I love the idea of May getting her powers sooner. In fact, it didn't really make sense to me that her powers didn't kick in until she was 16 or so. She, unlike Franklin for example, wasn't a mutant... She had spider powers because her father was Spider-Man; his DNA has been altered and he has passed his DNA onto her. It would be a normal part of her genome and should be there practically since birth...

And I couldn't agree with you more that Peter Parker would make a great father figure...once they let him grow up all the way...or at least a little more...

Mayday was such an interesting character. She had her mother's spirit and spunk and her father's powers... it was great.... If Marvel would just let their characters grow, they wouldn't need these reboots... Just pass on the torch to the next generation...

#48 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lestenya said:

@BR_Havoc said:

Yeah that does seem to be true I mean I love how Dan Slott says the whole universe will think of Spider-Man as this grand hero yet in the preview for the first issue he get punched once by SpeedDemon and says well I am leaving. So someone tell me how is he a hero again?

Agreed for Tony there was no consequences he ruined many peoples lives and nothing happened to him. Worst of all he seemed to not of even cared in the slightest because it was for his country. Lets hope in SSM since Peter is "dead" he can revisit that deal and get out of it. Lol something are like that and Stan Lee created my couples that are simple meant to be (Scott and Jean would be another) biggest issue with Sue and Reed they are at a point were you can not break them up if you did so you would destroy the fabric of the F4 title. As you can tell I am a pretty big supporter of the Richards family.

No matter what when Peter comes back, however he does it, he should remember before his deal with Mephisto. I mean the guy died...isn't that enough punishment? And as much as I don't like Sue and Reed, I realize they'll stay together and I don't expect them not to, i mean their entire life and that of the FF kind of in a way revolves around their marriage. Hopefully this next series will make like him a little better (but already it's not looking that way..) As for Tony...I honestly don't read Iron Man anymore and whenever I read him in anything (like Avengers) I feel this sudden urge to stop reading...there might be a correlation. I like him a little better in the Ultimate verse. I might just have to go back to reading the Ultimate verse...Depends on if New Avengers is super awesome or not.

"It’s the 50 anniversary of the Children of the Atom! When Spider-Man turned 50, Peter Parker lost his spot to Doctor Octopus…what do we have planned for Marvel’s mutants?

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/19892/13_reasons_to_look_forward_to_marvel_in_2013#ixzz2GmIIyEex"

Also this ^ worries me.

Well Fraction's real life family is pretty fantastic four like I mean Bendis even told him that you need to write Fantastic Four because you life is the Fantastic Four and your Reed Richards. So maybe he will make him a little softer. Then again so far I completely understand what he is doing I mean Reed does not want to make his family worry about why he is sick and he fears that they are getting sick as well. He wants to cure himself and them before it comes to worrying them. Never was a fan of the Ultimate verse I read some of the Spidey's and the original 2 Ultimate series but when i attempted to get back into it (Ultimatum) ruined it so I just stopped caring. I think New Avengers is going to be a slow story that builds up to be epic.

Way I see it there going to start a war over mutant kind and in the end when all hope is lost and it looks as if the mutants are doomed thanks to Cyclops the Jean will return in a rather Christ like manner to save them. Then again this is marvel they want a CNN story so it might be something silly.

#49 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@BR_Havoc: I love the idea of May getting her powers sooner. In fact, it didn't really make sense to me that her powers didn't kick in until she was 16 or so. She, unlike Franklin for example, wasn't a mutant... She had spider powers because her father was Spider-Man; his DNA has been altered and he has passed his DNA onto her. It would be a normal part of her genome and should be there practically since birth...

And I couldn't agree with you more that Peter Parker would make a great father figure...once they let him grow up all the way...or at least a little more...

Mayday was such an interesting character. She had her mother's spirit and spunk and her father's powers... it was great.... If Marvel would just let their characters grow, they wouldn't need these reboots... Just pass on the torch to the next generation...

You have said it the best and I agree with you reasoning of why May should have her powers earlier.

I think at the end of it all its editors fault and maybe its just because I see the new crop of editors were from news papers and what they want is sensationalism with key characters. They want people that are reading the books to be like a mule with a carrot dangling in front of it. They want MJ and Peter together well we are going to have it so close yet so far, or we are going to do it (Ocktospidey) in a way that pisses them off so we can get casual fans to read a book of sensationalism and sales might go up for those few issues but they fall after. I think Marvel should start crafting the M2 universe as being the future similar to how they are doing it with the FF.

#50 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

@Timandm said:

@BR_Havoc: I love the idea of May getting her powers sooner. In fact, it didn't really make sense to me that her powers didn't kick in until she was 16 or so. She, unlike Franklin for example, wasn't a mutant... She had spider powers because her father was Spider-Man; his DNA has been altered and he has passed his DNA onto her. It would be a normal part of her genome and should be there practically since birth...

And I couldn't agree with you more that Peter Parker would make a great father figure...once they let him grow up all the way...or at least a little more...

Mayday was such an interesting character. She had her mother's spirit and spunk and her father's powers... it was great.... If Marvel would just let their characters grow, they wouldn't need these reboots... Just pass on the torch to the next generation...

You have said it the best and I agree with you reasoning of why May should have her powers earlier.

I think at the end of it all its editors fault and maybe its just because I see the new crop of editors were from news papers and what they want is sensationalism with key characters. They want people that are reading the books to be like a mule with a carrot dangling in front of it. They want MJ and Peter together well we are going to have it so close yet so far, or we are going to do it (Ocktospidey) in a way that pisses them off so we can get casual fans to read a book of sensationalism and sales might go up for those few issues but they fall after. I think Marvel should start crafting the M2 universe as being the future similar to how they are doing it with the FF.

YES! I think you're right... In fact, you reminded me of something that the writers for the animated series 'The Justice League' (a few years back and I did love the series) once said, "We have a passive aggressive relationship with our viewers...We find out what they want and then we intentionally don't give it to them."

And this is not a new scenario. I call it "The Remington Steele" syndrome. Remington Steele was a t.v. series that came out in 1982 starring Pierce Brosnan and Stephanie Zimbalist. The two main characters had an OBVIOUS attraction to each other and all the fans wanted them to get together, but it just didn't happen... It was always like that carrot dangled out there in front of us, and just teasing us. Well, I think the rest of the fans and I just got sick of that and quit watching the show... THEN, the writers FINALLY let the two characters become an item, but by then... NO ONE CARED!!!

In 1985, the show Moon Lighting (Bruce Willis and Sybil Sheppard) came out. Like Remington Steel they were private detectives. like Remington Steele the main characters were obviously in love... Like Remington Steel the writers dragged it out till no one cared... in fact, when they finally let them come together, it just seemed... weird...

I've seen that same scenario play out SOOOOO many times... It's old, it's tired, it's boring and ineffective...

I LOVE that Reed and Susan Richards have kids... Now, I wish they'd just let them grow up.... Franklin Richards and I were born around the same time... and yet, He's only ten, whereas my first daughter will be a mom soon...

I LOVE that Luke and Jessica Cage are married and have a daughter... I hope they will let her grow up...

I would so love to see May Day Parker take her dad's place some day.