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#1 Posted by herrweis (433 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a DC comics fan whole heartedly.Love all the heros villians and groups.I was a little dissappointed when they decided to reboot 17 months ago,but I came in with an open mind and I liked the results.I read a lot of posts about current events in the new DCU and its strikes me that some fans just won't let go of the past.

People are so up in arms about Superman with Wonder Woman..."he should be with Lois".."they were meant to be".Sure theyw ere meant to be in the OLD universe,and let's face facts it took them 60 years to get married.60 freakin years.

It's a new universe,that means old ideas and things are out the window to give way for a fresh start.

Whats so wrong with trying something new instead of rehashing the same old stale ideas?

#2 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis said:

Whats so wrong with trying something new instead of rehashing the same old stale ideas?

If that was actually true, well, nothing.

The problem is they're not trying anything new. They're just messing with he status quo for the sake of messing with it and just rehashing the same old ideas except with a shiny new logo over them. They gave a Volkswagen Beetle a metalic red paintjob, slapped some flames on the front and called it a Ferrari!

#3 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing new about the New 52, it's the same exploitative crap Marvel have been peddling in their lesser titles for decades. 
 
It's not an inability to move on, it's the despair that comes from knowing literary merit and intelligent stories were forsaken for sales and ease of production for lazy writers.

#4 Posted by darkman61288 (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: First up, the New 52 is reusing old ideas. Throne of Altantis, Death of the Family are all old stories from comics and cartoons. And the so-called power couple, the idea of Sm and WW dating isn't new. And it is terrible. Lois lane was created to be his love not Wonder Woman. Also had Superman's creators wanted to marry them off in the 40's.

#5 Posted by Mighty Thorion (797 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends what you mean by "let go" of the past. Do you mean just forget all of the great stories DC has produced over the last 7 decades or so? In that case of course not! I have been collecting comics for over 40 years so I am not going to "let go" of all of those great (and sometimes not so great) issues. However, over the years I have gotten used to different interpretations of characters and situations and for me the New 52 is just that in many cases - an alternate interpretation of many of the characters (both heroes and villains) that I have grown to appreciate down the years.

It is not all great and it is not all bad either. In particular I like the way Shazam has been portrayed in Justice League and the darker more insane than ever Joker in the current Batman issues. As for Superman and Wonder Woman - why not? Why can't we see and alternate interpretation of their respective relationships to Lois Lane and Steve Trevor respectively?

#6 Posted by AlexDragon (11 posts) - - Show Bio

DC continues to make it hard to be a DC fan. The reason I can never be a long term DC fan is because of their constant restarts, rebooks and retellings. A casual DC reader needs an extensive charts outlineing what readers need to pretend never happened and what did because they casually toss out continuity every few years. They're on about the 8th version of the Legion, Supergirl, Hawkman, Robin, Superman's origin,etc...I have no desire to work this hard to figure out what I'm supposed to forget happened. DC should've restarted everything from the beginning with the orginal CRISIS and missed the boat and the certainly should've done it with the NEW 52. All this "Yeah, this might've happened even though it doesn't fit/work anymore..." stuff is just annoying and silly. DC doesn't want to let go of the past or explain it but doesn't want fans to worry about it. This is another in a long line of DC just not thinking things through and sticking with it. End of rant. Oh yeah... Hi everyone this my first Comicvine post.

#7 Edited by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

They can't, because then the Battle Forums would be MADNESS.

#8 Posted by darkman61288 (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mighty Thorion: Then why not create new loves. Why not be creative and original. No they go a stupid gimmicky pairing. Wonder Woman already has a rep of being a copycat of Superman and this makes it worst. And on top of that WW will end being called Superman's girlfriend.

#9 Edited by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

*Looks at New-52 Tim Drake and Harley Quinn*

Really, unless they fix up their characters, I'm not letting go the Pre-52.

#10 Posted by Mighty Thorion (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkman61288 said:

@Mighty Thorion: Then why not create new loves. Why not be creative and original. No they go a stupid gimmicky pairing. Wonder Woman already has a rep of being a copycat of Superman and this makes it worst. And on top of that WW will end being called Superman's girlfriend.

I could live with the concept of new loves for these characters, too.

#11 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5422 posts) - - Show Bio
@AlexDragon
DC continues to make it hard to be a DC fan. The reason I can never be a long term DC fan is because of their constant restarts, rebooks and retellings. A casual DC reader needs an extensive charts outlineing what readers need to pretend never happened and what did because they casually toss out continuity every few years. They're on about the 8th version of the Legion, Supergirl, Hawkman, Robin, Superman's origin,etc...I have no desire to work this hard to figure out what I'm supposed to forget happened. DC should've restarted everything from the beginning with the orginal CRISIS and missed the boat and the certainly should've done it with the NEW 52. All this "Yeah, this might've happened even though it doesn't fit/work anymore..." stuff is just annoying and silly. DC doesn't want to let go of the past or explain it but doesn't want fans to worry about it. This is another in a long line of DC just not thinking things through and sticking with it. End of rant. Oh yeah... Hi everyone this my first Comicvine post.
@JonSmith

They can't, because then the Battle Forums would be MADNESS.

Good post, welcome to the Vine.

This, they'd have nothing to talk about lol.
#12 Posted by madtitan2112 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to be a DC fan but all the reboots make it hard. it seems like there is no past since new 52, the pre 52 books don't seem to matter anymore. and it doesn't help that Tim Drake got me to read DC consistently in the first place and they crapped all over him.

P.S. Red Robin is a terrible name.

#13 Posted by Pokeysteve (8303 posts) - - Show Bio

As a Wonder Woman fan, DC making her a Hercules rip seemed really stupid and necessary.

Her and Superman together isn't new and was toyed with in the late 80's or early 90's.

#14 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Some good, some bad. Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Batman are all better off. Tim Drake is screwed, and I wouldn't say Cyborg has been a big improvement despite the big deal made of his new origin.

It helped get me interested in comics again, so it served its purpose from a business standpoint...at least with me.

#15 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

The minute they bring back Wally West, all crimes will be forgiven.

#16 Posted by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio

i have no problem with new things i just wish they would clearly define the characters pasts. I like the idea of Superman and Lois not being together bc i think Lois kept him from venturing out to cosmic scale adventures. I would like to see him visit Oa or Daxam as well as planets and people from vertigo and Wildstorm

#17 Posted by Lvenger (19965 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: It's a terrible, terrible romance. Superman and Wonder Woman don't work together as a couple. The only time I've accepted a relationship between the two is in Kingdom Come and Johns is no Waid. Besides it lacks chemistry, depth and consistency amongst other things that make a good fictional romance.

#18 Edited by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Online
#19 Posted by herrweis (433 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: haha!!

#20 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: I wouldn't say "let go of the past" but I think that people could really enjoy some of the current stories if they'd drop grudges. While I enjoyed the DCU more than the New 52 overall, I'm enjoying the heck out of some of the current titles because I've let drop emotional baggage. This isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. Comic fans would be happier if they'd go with the flow more often.

#21 Posted by Billy Batson (58029 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Eh, Wally was getting screwed over before the New 52.
BB

#22 Posted by Z3RO180 (6552 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: every big nerd out cry all bioles dow to nerd rage

Online
#23 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Erasing the past every now and then, and reboots are good for getting new customers. Dc should just follow the tv show season model and start a new season every January so new customers can easily jump in every January. If titles sell well, you don't have to reboot every January but just do a relaunch. Most customers are more used to erasing the past bec. of the tv model. Every time there is a new superhero tv show like Arrow or Amazon, it will be a reboot. If there is a new Superman tv show, it won't be based on the Smallville tv 10 year history anymore.

#24 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@John Valentine said:

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Eh, Wally was getting screwed over before the New 52.
BB

At least he existed. But, yes, he was.

Online
#25 Posted by Billy Batson (58029 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@Billy Batson said:

@John Valentine said:

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Eh, Wally was getting screwed over before the New 52.
BB

At least he existed. But, yes, he was.

Barely. He got tossed right away when Barry showed up.
BB

#26 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@John Valentine said:

@Billy Batson said:

@John Valentine said:

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Eh, Wally was getting screwed over before the New 52.
BB

At least he existed. But, yes, he was.

Barely. He got tossed right away when Barry showed up.
BB

True story. He really did nothing after Lighting Saga.

Online
#27 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

People are just nostalgic for comics they loved. Nothing wrong with that.

#28 Posted by Billy Batson (58029 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

True story. He really did nothing after Lighting Saga.

He wasn't even in Brightest Day's beach scene where plenty of other heroes had small appearances.
BB

#29 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

That's what happens when you put a person who only cares about their favorite characters in charge. :P

#30 Posted by tgoldberg (20 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to admit, I'm wary about getting into the current DC continuity because I know it'll just be wiped away and replaced in a few years anyway. I just don't want to get emotionally invested in something that might be dropped at a moment's notice, you know?

#31 Posted by darkman61288 (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@tgoldberg: I agree that DC will reboot it again soon. They are just doing too big storylines too early. I think that the reboot will be triggered by a severe drop in sales after the Trinity War.

#32 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@herrweis: It's a terrible, terrible romance. Superman and Wonder Woman don't work together as a couple. The only time I've accepted a relationship between the two is in Kingdom Come and Johns is no Waid. Besides it lacks chemistry, depth and consistency amongst other things that make a good fictional romance.

Yeah..these 2 characters lack personalities IMO. Well, Wonder Woman can be somewhat interesting, depending on who is writing her. But every writer wants to go a completely different direction with her so she's wildly inconsistent in my view.

I understand people needing to let go of the stories from before Crisis..but damn..haven't they done at least 2-3 retcons since then? Every 10 yrs, you shouldn't have to make changes that dramatic.

#33 Posted by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@herrweis said:

Whats so wrong with trying something new instead of rehashing the same old stale ideas?

If that was actually true, well, nothing.

The problem is they're not trying anything new. They're just messing with he status quo for the sake of messing with it and just rehashing the same old ideas except with a shiny new logo over them. They gave a Volkswagen Beetle a metalic red paintjob, slapped some flames on the front and called it a Ferrari!

THIS.

#34 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc does erase a lot for properties which don't sell. Looks like Stormwatch has the lucky distinction of being one of the first New 52 reboots to get a another reboot. There's always more reboots where they came from.

#35 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

My problem with the reboot is that this one is a complete reboot so there's no tell what's canon now or not. They made everything a bigger mess, it's like the anti COIE.

#36 Posted by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

The new DCU is one hot mess. Mmmhhhhmmm

#37 Posted by Lvenger (19965 posts) - - Show Bio

@DaAwesome2 said:

@Lvenger said:

@herrweis: It's a terrible, terrible romance. Superman and Wonder Woman don't work together as a couple. The only time I've accepted a relationship between the two is in Kingdom Come and Johns is no Waid. Besides it lacks chemistry, depth and consistency amongst other things that make a good fictional romance.

Yeah..these 2 characters lack personalities IMO. Well, Wonder Woman can be somewhat interesting, depending on who is writing her. But every writer wants to go a completely different direction with her so she's wildly inconsistent in my view.

I understand people needing to let go of the stories from before Crisis..but damn..haven't they done at least 2-3 retcons since then? Every 10 yrs, you shouldn't have to make changes that dramatic.

Disagree on Superman and Wonder Woman lacking personalities. With the right writers and stories, you'll find they can be very interesting characters.

I've been thinking about the number of retcons and relaunches DC have done myself. There was the creation of new versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, Hawman and the Atom amongst others that required a distinction between GA and SA comics. Then there was COIE which got rid of the mutliverse. Zero Hour shuffled some things up too continuity wise. Infinite Crisis messed with Superman's origin, the JL's origin and put the Multiverse back. And now Flashpoint has given rise to the New 52. If you think about it, relaunches are in DC's nature unfortunately.

#38 Posted by The Stegman (24414 posts) - - Show Bio

*Whispers softly* I like the New 52.....

#39 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

*Whispers softly* I like the New 52.....

Nothing wrong with liking it, although something tells me you simply like some of the comics. (Not likely that anyone's reading all of the New 52 comics).

#40 Posted by The Stegman (24414 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

@The Stegman said:

*Whispers softly* I like the New 52.....

Nothing wrong with liking it, although something tells me you simply like some of the comics. (Not likely that anyone's reading all of the New 52 comics).

Well, I've tried all of them, and currently reading about half, some have been just awful do, I admit.
#41 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman: Yeah, I don't think the event's only produced bad stuff, but I can see why a lot of people aren't fans.

My personal issue is that what is and what is not canon is all over the place, leading to a confusing read overall.

#42 Posted by RedLanternRage81 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Change is good...but I agree the characters background should stay pretty concrete, minor changes or tweaks are ok.I read more dc than marvel bc marvel seems to be the bandwagon for lots of people right now.Marvel makes changes to but does a better job of making it flow for the reader and the readers understanding of character evolution.All i need is BATMAN and im good, and marvel doesnt have that....

#43 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc continuity changes from month to month and this includes history so just follow all the new stories to see how the history is forever changing.

#44 Posted by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlexDragon: I kind of disagree. DC reboots because sales are low. DC wants to apeal to new readers and this generation and using the new 52 worked. As long as people are interested and buying they won't reboot. The only major reboot that had bad timing was infinite crisis. I agree on the changes to the characters or retcons though.

@Crash_Recovery: If they keep the 25 year reboots and have less retcons than I'm okay.

#45 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

You do know you're on DC Fanboy grounds. DC Fanboys run ComicVine

XP

(+)

#46 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc architects seem to believe a universe reboot is needed around every 10 years to find new customers. Titles that don't sell can get reboots as frequently as 1-2 years as seen in the New 52 Green Arrow and Stormwatch. The customers also don't last forever so Dc has to find new customers every year.

#47 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

People are just nostalgic for comics they loved. Nothing wrong with that.

This.

#48 Posted by AlexDragon (11 posts) - - Show Bio

[b]@Lilben42:[/b] Not all DC's reboots have been because of sales. We've seen Superman's origin retold and tweaked a number of times and Superman is one of their stronger sellers. I can understand John Byrne's MAN OF STEEL after CRISIS but why did we need BIRTHRIGHT and Geoff John's retelling or even Loeb's changing of Krypton? None of those really added to the current Superman stories of their time so why keep going back to retell that story? Also, yeah...sales are a factor but if you notice the reboots only help on a fairly short term basis. Have the reboots ever really helped Hawkman, Supergirl, The Legion, Plastic Man, Black Hawks, Metal Men, Doom Patrol, The Demon, Forever Gods, etc., etc., long term?

#49 Posted by AlexDragon (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Why would DC think they need to reboot every 10 years or so to get new readers? Isn't MARVEL right there outselling them year after year without any major reboots? But then, Marvel tends to keep moving forward and build off their continuity instead of refusing to let go of the past and keep trying to start over, so I guess MARVEL doesn't need to constantly toss continuity out and hit restart.

#50 Edited by tupiaz (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlexDragon said:

Why would DC think they need to reboot every 10 years or so to get new readers? Isn't MARVEL right there outselling them year after year without any major reboots? But then, Marvel tends to keep moving forward and build off their continuity instead of refusing to let go of the past and keep trying to start over, so I guess MARVEL doesn't need to constantly toss continuity out and hit restart.

There is also the fact that most of their characters (all the big ones anyway besides Captain American and Namor) started in the 60's where DC started in the 30's and 40's.. That right there cut one big restart.

@John Valentine said:

Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Tim Drake, Superboy, Nightwing (especially), Beast Boy, Donna Troy and Wally West have been screwed over. A lot of Teen Titans have been screwed over.

There are so many key aspects of certain characters' pasts that have just been erased. These events should have happened in the New 52. Second to that, the five year time period of super-heroics should have been longer - why didn't they make it ten years? This would have made much more sense and allowed for said prior, important events to happen comfortably within the time frame. Instead we seem to get watered down versions of pre-New 52 characters.

Still, the reboot has been beneficial for other characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman. In fact, I even like what's been done to Wonder Woman.

Because many heroes then was on the way to retirement.