#1 Edited by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio

In this thread talk about what you think might be some of the effects in Age of Ultron from altering the past.

  • If Hank Pym was killed he never made Ultron so there would be no Vision... duh.
  • If there was no vision then Wanda would have never gotten pregnant and would have never had the miscarriage that lead to her break down resulting in the death of a handful of Avengers and Dissemble.
  • If there was no break down then there would never have been House of M... so the mutants would have never lost their powers.
  • Which would mean there would be no reason for Utopia or the Phoenix to come to earth in AvX meaning there would be no AvX or Schism. Which would also probably mean Professor X would be alive and crippled.
  • Without M-Day there would be way to many mutants to try and push through the registration act so there would have been no Cival war.
  • Now if the was never Disassemble or M-Day the Skrulls would have never made their move and would probably still be hiding among the earthlings.
  • Hank Pym was one of their biggest players in their invasion plan. Sense Pym wasn't around they would need to replace someone else. Like Maybe Tony Stark.
  • Also not sure how it would effect things but there would be no Young Vision(I kinda get why they killed him off last year now) or Victor Mancha.
  • Young Vision did play a role in Kang's youth when he was Iron Lad so the lack of Young Vision could be significant.

Pretty crazy when you think about it. Anyone else think of any other big changes that might occur if they cut Hank from the past?

#2 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

It looks like Janet becomes Captain Marvel somehow:

Could be someone else though.

#3 Posted by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

... So pretty much all of the major events that caused some of the greatest destruction and instability in the heroic community would never happen now that Hank Pym's dead?

...

STAB HIM S'MORE, WOLVERINE. NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT, IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

#4 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18676 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith said:

... So pretty much all of the major events that caused some of the greatest destruction and instability in the heroic community would never happen now that Hank Pym's dead?

...

STAB HIM S'MORE, WOLVERINE. NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT, IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

This is bad for wolverine too, i hate it when he is written like this -____-, he is smarter than that, but for some reason everytime a problem come up his answer is always ' STAB HIM"!

#5 Posted by Ludo (57 posts) - - Show Bio

But is this Age of Ultron even canon? I mean, it's happening or it's going to happen? Or it's another reality? I would like Bendis & co. to be clear on that. So far AU it has been really average and making clear if it's canon or not would be important.

#6 Edited by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

This is bad for wolverine too, i hate it when he is written like this -____-, he is smarter than that, but for some reason everytime a problem come up his answer is always ' STAB HIM"!

That's not really fair. Like you said, Wolverine's smart. He's been through wars. He knows how to win them. He knows when they're lost. Here's the Avenger's plan:

Go into the future, where Ultron has absolute control, and is thus directing present events from there in how to ensure that control. In this future, Ultron has mechanized the planet. There are most likely NO remaining rebels, the entire world is watched by his Ultron drones. The Avengers are weaker than they've ever been, and Ultron is far more powerful. They are charging into enemy territory with no possibility of retreat, and no back up forthcoming. It is LITERALLY do or die, and the enemy has superior numbers, resources, and the ability to constantly make more.

It is the very DEFINITION of a suicide mission. It's a plan of desperation, nothing more.

Wolverine, instead, is going BACK to stop Pym from building Ultron in the first place. He knows that if he told Pym what happened, Pym would just be more determined to build it right. Killing him's the only way to stop him. And if it causes the AU timeline to cease to exist, him included, it's not like they're losing a whole lot.

It's not great, but it DOES make sense. It's not as cut and dry as "STAB HIM."

#7 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not reading this book because I still have no clear concept of what it means -- evidently it "is" happening, currently, but where or why or what that means has not been clarified in the slightest, and won't be at least until after the final issue.

However if these implications are true, and it is canon, I would not want to be the person with the nightmare task of figuring out how any of the myriad characters created during or by all these events figure into the "new" continuity in which those events never happened.

To use just one example: Hope Summers.

#8 Edited by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio
@jonsmith said:

... So pretty much all of the major events that caused some of the greatest destruction and instability in the heroic community would never happen now that Hank Pym's dead?

...

STAB HIM S'MORE, WOLVERINE. NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT, IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

Not Necessarily It's easier to find the positive effects but a lot harder to see the negative ones. I mean Hank helped take down a ton of major threats. Who's to say how any of them played out without him being there? Don't forget Hank was part of all the Infinity sagas and helped talk down Kovac, so there could still be huge negative repercussions. Who's to say with Hank gone Tony didn't build an even worse version of Ultron. You'd also need to consider all of the good Vision has done over the years as well. Hell I'm not ever sure Wanda would have been crazy enough to bring back Wonder Man from the dead, and we was the Avengers power house for most of the 80's things could have gone very differently without him.

@ludo said:

But is this Age of Ultron even canon? I mean, it's happening or it's going to happen? Or it's another reality? I would like Bendis & co. to be clear on that. So far AU it has been really average and making clear if it's canon or not would be important.

Marvel has stated quite a few times this even is meant to be cannon.

#9 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18676 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith said:

@theacidskull said:

This is bad for wolverine too, i hate it when he is written like this -____-, he is smarter than that, but for some reason everytime a problem come up his answer is always ' STAB HIM"!

That's not really fair. Like you said, Wolverine's smart. He's been through wars. He knows how to win them. He knows when they're lost. Here's the Avenger's plan:

Go into the future, where Ultron has absolute control, and is thus directing present events from there in how to ensure that control. In this future, Ultron has mechanized the planet. There are most likely NO remaining rebels, the entire world is watched by his Ultron drones. The Avengers are weaker than they've ever been, and Ultron is far more powerful. They are charging into enemy territory with no possibility of retreat, and no back up forthcoming. It is LITERALLY do or die, and the enemy has superior numbers, resources, and the ability to constantly make more.

It is the very DEFINITION of a suicide mission. It's a plan of desperation, nothing more.

Wolverine, instead, is going BACK to stop Pym from building Ultron in the first place. He knows that if he told Pym what happened, Pym would just be more determined to build it right. Killing him's the only way to stop him. And if it causes the AU timeline to cease to exist, him included, it's not like they're losing a whole lot.

It's not great, but it DOES make sense. It's not as cut and dry as "STAB HIM."

good argument, but the reason i said what i said is because of the simple fact that wolverine should have tried harder to convince pym, his whole argument was basically " Duurrrr YOU NO BUILD ROBOT! ok?", if i was wolverine , i'd say something like this to convince pym, and he would have listened " Pym, listen to me, this is very important , i know this will sound F*cking weird but you have to consider what i am about to say, the robot, ultron, which you are planning to built will be one of the biggest mistake of your life, Ultron will take over the wolrd, he will ruin everyone's life, kill millions, and god knows what, so please pym, don't build , you HAVE to consider this, otherwise i'd be forced to kill you' , he might have been skeptical, and still go through with it, but at least wolverine will be more convincing.

and Pym, while being a giant , could not break wolverines hold? while sue was holding his other arm? really? i hate AU -___-

#10 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's cannon! Maybe it is, but in the next issue they form a new Marvel Universe meaning Age of Ultron won't happen and they outsmart him, or something.

#11 Posted by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: It wasn't that Hank couldn't break free it was that Logan has a knife to his neck.

#12 Edited by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

good argument, but the reason i said what i said is because of the simple fact that wolverine should have tried harder to convince pym, his whole argument was basically " Duurrrr YOU NO BUILD ROBOT! ok?", if i was wolverine , i'd say something like this to convince pym, and he would have listened " Pym, listen to me, this is very important , i know this will sound F*cking weird but you have to consider what i am about to say, the robot, ultron, which you are planning to built will be one of the biggest mistake of your life, Ultron will take over the wolrd, he will ruin everyone's life, kill millions, and god knows what, so please pym, don't build , you HAVE to consider this, otherwise i'd be forced to kill you' , he might have been skeptical, and still go through with it, but at least wolverine will be more convincing.

and Pym, while being a giant , could not break wolverines hold? while sue was holding his other arm? really? i hate AU -___-

Wolverine openly states, and is agreed with by others, that if they went back and tried to convince Pym NOT to make Ultron, that it does horrible things, he'll take it as a challenge and build Ultron anyway in an attempt to build it RIGHT. They all know Pym, and what he's like. As for Pym not breaking the hold, Wolverine had him by the side of his mouth, and was only being held back by Susan. Pym knows Sue's fields are held by her concentration. If he made a sudden move against Wolverine, Wolverine might tear a decent chunk out of his face with the hand in his mouth, or the distraction might be enough to make Sue drop the fields and let Wolverine stab him.

#13 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18676 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith said:

@theacidskull said:

good argument, but the reason i said what i said is because of the simple fact that wolverine should have tried harder to convince pym, his whole argument was basically " Duurrrr YOU NO BUILD ROBOT! ok?", if i was wolverine , i'd say something like this to convince pym, and he would have listened " Pym, listen to me, this is very important , i know this will sound F*cking weird but you have to consider what i am about to say, the robot, ultron, which you are planning to built will be one of the biggest mistake of your life, Ultron will take over the wolrd, he will ruin everyone's life, kill millions, and god knows what, so please pym, don't build , you HAVE to consider this, otherwise i'd be forced to kill you' , he might have been skeptical, and still go through with it, but at least wolverine will be more convincing.

and Pym, while being a giant , could not break wolverines hold? while sue was holding his other arm? really? i hate AU -___-

Wolverine openly states, and is agreed with by others, that if they went back and tried to convince Pym NOT to make Ultron, that it does horrible things, he'll take it as a challenge and build Ultron anyway in an attempt to build it RIGHT. They all know Pym, and what he's like. As for Pym not breaking the hold, Wolverine had him by the side of his mouth, and was only being held back by Susan. Pym knows Sue's fields are held by her concentration. If he made a sudden move against Wolverine, Wolverine might tear a decent chunk out of his face with the hand in his mouth, or the distraction might be enough to make Sue drop the fields and let Wolverine stab him.

still man, the execution was bad, even with cyclops he charged in to kill scotts past self, without thinking what change would it have made , but good points none the less.

#14 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith said:

... So pretty much all of the major events that caused some of the greatest destruction and instability in the heroic community would never happen now that Hank Pym's dead?

...

STAB HIM S'MORE, WOLVERINE. NUKE 'EM FROM ORBIT, IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

Hank Pym, an underrated comic book character, is unintentionally responsible for so much devastation in the Marvel universe. Who would have expected that?

#15 Edited by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder if any of the time travel stuff from Avenger's Academy will have any kind of role in this. Specifically the part where they showed Pym ruling the future.

#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34915 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

In this thread talk about what you think might be some of the effects in Age of Ultron from altering the past.

  • If Hank Pym was killed he never made Ultron so there would be no Vision... duh.
  • If there was no vision then Wanda would have never gotten pregnant and would have never had the miscarriage that lead to her break down resulting in the death of a handful of Avengers and Dissemble.
  • If there was no break down then there would never have been House of M... so the mutants would have never lost their powers.
  • Which would mean there would be no reason for Utopia or the Phoenix to come to earth in AvX meaning there would be no AvX or Schism. Which would also probably mean Professor X would be alive and crippled.
  • Without M-Day there would be way to many mutants to try and push through the registration act so there would have been no Cival war.
  • Now if the was never Disassemble or M-Day the Skrulls would have never made their move and would probably still be hiding among the earthlings.
  • Hank Pym was one of their biggest players in their invasion plan. Sense Pym wasn't around they would need to replace someone else. Like Maybe Tony Stark.
  • Also not sure how it would effect things but there would be no Young Vision(I kinda get why they killed him off last year now) or Victor Mancha.
  • Young Vision did play a role in Kang's youth when he was Iron Lad so the lack of Young Vision could be significant.

Pretty crazy when you think about it. Anyone else think of any other big changes that might occur if they cut Hank from the past?

............

It's simple, we kill the Ant-Man.

#17 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (8660 posts) - - Show Bio

It looks like Janet becomes Captain Marvel somehow:

Could be someone else though.

Wait..... Is Deathstroke Captain America now? :P

#18 Edited by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm starting to wonder if AoU is going to turn into Marvel's Flashpoint. :o

#19 Posted by tigerkaya (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I'm not surprised by how the majority of comments are all "Kill Hank!!" No killing Hank won't solve anything if anything it will only cause greater problems for events to come. Far greater cataclysms than the previous timeline, after Vision, Hank, and Jocasta all played important roles from events of past. Probably saving millions in certain events because of a simple deed or from saving teammate where that teammate would save lives. Take for instance Nefaria, when he stole the powers of other villains to make him a super powered being the Avengers were being throttled now lets say without Vision to deliver the finisher Beast could have died and without him the High Evolutionary would have succeeded in his plan to force evolution upon the human race thus the Universe being rebooted. Thanks Wolverine!! Jerk

#20 Posted by M3th (2099 posts) - - Show Bio

Pym can't catch a break I swear.