Accurate Power Scaling for Apocalypse

Something I've noticed when it come to reading about Apoc is that almost every "feat" that he has is somewhat questionable but his defeats are considered bad writing (note that I personally read most the feats straight from the source material)

He held down the hulk, but hulk was dying and lost the ability to get stronger when angry.

He beat the hell out of thor, but that was teen thor who didn't have the hammer and was a cocky douche (that headbutt heard for 100 miles feat was impressive but a lot of class 100 people could likely do that too)

he got chased off by havoc and a handful of x-men during the blood if apocalypse, but Apoc has beaten a handful of x-men before while weakened and stood up to the x-men and the inhumans (black bolt's scream didn't work on him)

Age of Apocalypse (original and Secret Wars) don't have Apoc doing much except talk, sneak attack people, and dying by overestimating himself, but (spoiler alert) Apoc is seen fighting and killing thors in Secret Wars #7

The reason I bring up AOA is due to the time when Magneto ripped Apoc in half. some have argued that it's PIS, but how can we be sure when the 616 versions have never fought each other

One thing that we can all agree on is that Apoc is pretty damn durable due to his powers and that makes him very hard to beat, but his offensive showings are lacking and it's mainly his henchmen that do the fighting

So now my question: What can be agreed upon as the most accurate portrayal of Apocalyse's power?

Power scaling?

@never_give_up: Yeah, like how even though hulk, Thor, or whoever else have showings of skill that no one can argue with, regardless of who's writing, Apocalypse is wildly inconsistent powerwise, which sucks cuz I've always thought of him as an amazing and story rich character.

@flumox56: thanks!

Anyway, i'm about reread AOA because that version of Apocalypse may come to New Marvel cuz Secret Wars. might be worth a second look.

@masterofevil: Not got around to reading Secret Wars yet, I am about 18 months to 2 years behind after taking a hiatus from reading Marvel. I am currently reading the Infinity storyline, so I am still playing catch up.

@flumox56: you reading avengers v5 and new avengers v3, also? you'll need both for the full story

@masterofevil:

Yea, Reading all the Tie-Ins, Avengers Assemble, Thunderbolts, Infinity Heist, Superior Spider-Man Team-Up et cetera.

I am really enjoying it, I personally think it is one of the best Crossover/big event of Marvels that I have read for a while.

Nothing special, dude gets stomped by Magneto. (granted Magneto has some pretty impressive feats.)

His power is more in his prep and machination in my opinion than actual combat.

You forgot to mention him in AXIS. Although Evan was just a clone, he still had Celestial armor and he got KO'd.

You're not alone in being displeased by the inconsistency. I've always felt he should be a much greater threat, beyond any single hero.

@flumox56: @greatcaesarsghost: @noone301994: @blacklegraph: Before I show what I found, read the reddit thread. Especially the AOA section

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/3gobi2/respect_apocalypse_marvel/

Now click the spoiler and read the last panel:

Rivals Phoenix, but never could take it that far. This could explain why his power is so inconsistent, but still is a major thread. It even explains why every future version of Apocalypse is apparently God-Tier and why Kang the conqueror feared him despite being INSANELY powerful (seriously, google Kang's respect thread).

What do you guys think?

I remember reading that, Though I personally have reservations about the claim it could rival the Phoenix force, I do think it backs up those of us who think Apocalypse power is often under estimated, And it could explain why Kang fears him and why his power is so inconsistent

Some people may say that that's an alternate timeline due to what happened in Legion Quest (and they would have a point), But it started of as the same Apocalypse from our timeline only due to Legion and Magneto being filmed battling in the sky's both Apocalypse and Sinister took it as a sign that their plans had come to fruition early and it was time to act, So with no Avengers or X-Men they conquered half the World, But it started as our Apocalypse.

Plus I think some people forgetting that in AoA Blue lips gave Magneto a good hiding (when he captured him) before Mags kills him later in the storyline.

@flumox56: I agree with you, but to clarify, the Seed had the Phoenix level power (according to Prophet and AOA Doom). It's just that Apoc wasn't bringing it out. It may depend on the host since Archangel, AOA Logan, and AOA Jean all had better showings.

@masterofevil:

Maybe one reason Apocalypse has not fully taken advantage of the full power he potentially has at his disposal is he seems to prefer to manipulate events rather than take a direct hand in them, Having his servants and minions do the dirty work as it where when possible and usually only takes a direct hand himself when he feels it is needed, So maybe he does not focus as much on his own potential as much as he could, but I am just speculating.

Though I personally would say he has shown enough in the past (Power wise) to be considered around Thor or Magneto level, Though I remember not many people agreed with me on this when I said a similar thing 3 or 4 months back, Though that was connected to Apocalypse Vs Thor not Magneto.

You're likely right, but its strange considering how he should show his powers more when his plan is literally about to fail. he functions more as the Xmen version of Green goblin

@masterofevil: I have often put it down to lazy writing, Its like Exodus, We see him in Blood Ties crushing an Entire Island with a Telekinetic shield, holding Jean Gray, Crystal & Quicksilver in another one, Telepathically influencing the Mutates, All the while taking and dishing out punishment from/to The Avengers and X-Men which included Xavier and Sersi.

Yet down the road he gets his ass handed to him by Charles Xavier who is missing half his brain, Not sure who to blame more for these frequent inconsistencies, The writers or the editors.

@flumox56: From I hear, Exodus's power fluctuates based on confidence and worshipers, buy you do have a point. However, most characters, regardless of the writer, get awesome showings consistently. Half of Apocalypse's feats contradict the other half.