A Closer Look at Superman Prime (One Million)

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mysticmedivh

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@erediore: Did he use his energy? We don't know. His memories? We don't know. What do we know? He needs 1) A 5th Dimensional Imp 2) DNA. Without those we cannot assume he can simply resurrect people by snapping his fingers. It's as simple as that. Those were the conditions shown in the comics.

Minaruto has been boasting about how this thread is false and that he'll make his own debunk thread. I'm still waiting. Until then, him derailing this thread with nonsense is hardly amusing.

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Erediore

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#202  Edited By Erediore

@mysticmedivh: I said that because he has his palms on the core of her re-creation, as if he was inputing something, I think it was his energies, as he did gave powers to other Supermen, for that part I would understand her silver skin. For the memories part is because she remembered him, otherwise it would be a clon lost in traslation to what she is supposed to be or who she was and who was this golden guy in front of her. Of course the necessary inputs were those you mentioned. Yet what I said isn't properly shown in the comics, but it's just left to be assumed by us as mere guess, I think at least can be guessed.

Agree with you, so far you has been correct and the OP hasn't being wrong. He is just diving deep into the wishful thinking waters.

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mysticmedivh

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@erediore: Yep. However, we don't know if it was the Imp or Superman that turned her silver. As you said, what properly isn't shown in the comics is left to become assumptions. It should also be noted that although he gave his descendants powers, they didn't gain a unique physical appearance like Lois did. They retained their "white" skin, if you will, or should I say, general Kryptonian appearance.

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#204  Edited By Erediore
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#207  Edited By Erediore

@mysticmedivh: Hey pal, I have a serious concern, a Supes fanboy is telling me both Superman and Shazam has infinite strenght, 'cause they lifted a book with infinite pages, can you help me with that? I mean, if both are infinitely strong then they are virtually omnipotent right? Or they would never ever lose to anyone, they would basically one-shot anyone in front of them. This is a little off-topic I know, but it is bugging me and that would only mean that SP1M is just 15,000 years of sundip greater than that "infinite".

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RealityWarper

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@erediore said:

@mysticmedivh: Hey pal, I have a serious concern, a Supes fanboy is telling me both Superman and Shazam has infinite strenght, 'cause they lifted a book with infinite pages, can you help me with that? I mean, if both are infinitely strong then they are virtually omnipotent right? Or they would never ever lose to anyone, they would basically one-shot anyone in front of them. This is a little off-topic I know, but it is bugging me and that would only mean that SP1M is just 15,000 years of sundip greater than that "infinite".

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Erediore

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@realitywarper: I knew that, thanks for the scans anyway, but the scans alone doesn't offer the answer to my questions...

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@erediore: If Clark had an infinite strenght he wouldn't struggle and need help for moving the Earth for exemple.

We can observe in other comics that he don't.

Moreover if the weight of the pages was infinite they couldn't move it, nor the people who put the book in the library.

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le0nhart

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#211  Edited By le0nhart

@mysticmedivh: Great post :)

can you do Imperiex next? some people believe his probes are galaxy busters

note: i know they hollowed galaxies using chain reaction and constructs but that is not considered galaxy busting and isn't useful in a debate

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academic

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Incorrect on some points .

The source did change him besides physically.

That is why he was able to give a portion of his powers to his descendants ( beyond any meta human levels prior )

There is a comic which states he is magic invulnerable .

This sup is not just sundipped .

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@mysticmedivh: i dont know if it was posted before in this thread but i have a question. A person just used this scan in a debate with me. How legit is it? Can he do it?

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mysticmedivh

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@mysticmedivh said:

@chimeroid: That feat was performed by Superman One Million, not Superman Prime One Million (who is the topic of this thread). Two different characters.

I have detailed the feat near the end of my Superman One Million respect thread. http://www.comicvine.com/superman/4005-1807/forums/superman-one-million-kal-kent-respect-thread-1664174/

Ok... I really have to get around to reading all the One Million issues. :D So, is Kal Kent superior to Prime?

By actual feats, yes.

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mysticmedivh

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#217  Edited By mysticmedivh
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I thought he was special cause he was gold..

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@justthatkid said:

I thought he was special cause he was gold..

Yup, and I'm sure that's all it would take for you to wank him through the roof without knowing any better.

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stormshadow_x

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#223  Edited By stormshadow_x

@juzacloud said:
@stormshadow_x said:
@justthatkid said:

I thought he was special cause he was gold..

Yup, and I'm sure that's all it would take for you to wank him through the roof without knowing any better.

Way to take a joke too seriously :p

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#224  Edited By JuzaCloud

@juzacloud said:
@stormshadow_x said:
@justthatkid said:

I thought he was special cause he was gold..

Yup, and I'm sure that's all it would take for you to wank him through the roof without knowing any better.

Way to take a joke too seriously :p

I was halfway joking

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Very thorough. Nice.

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Everytime I look at this thread, even to this day:

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DarthVxder

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Superman shouls have tried to get on Jersey Shore when it was on. The dude has a nice tan.

@mysticmedivh: If SMP1M is superior to SM1M in the story although he doesnt have better feats cane we assume he is atleast as strong?

Im not SMP1M fan but just something that came to my head.

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mysticmedivh

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#228  Edited By mysticmedivh

@darthvxder: Correct. He is portrayed as being stronger in the story. However, if we look at it featwise it's the other way around

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#230  Edited By petieson

But just the mere fact that he sundipped in the sun for 15,000 years would put his power ASTRONOMICALLY higher than post crisis superman in terms of upfront demonstrations. When he sundipped for 15 minutes, he was able to move planets easily. A 15,000 year sundip is 15,000x12(months)x4(weeks)x7(days)x24(hours)x45(minutes subtract the 15 minutes he already spent in the sun in order to get a proper example)=5,433,200,000 divided by 15 and you get 362,213,333.33. And that's not just a multiplier for his usual stats, that's a multiplier for the already large boost he gained from his 15 minute sundip. Even then if you just applied that multiplier to his usual endurance of 10 octillion megatons, you would get 3.6221333e+36. Thats 3.62221333 times 10 to the power of 36. His other stats would also be so astronomically large that they would be a power and exponent equation.

Think about that. Thats enough to lift a sizable portion of a galaxy. And since it was enough to actually change his physical appearence down to his skin, hair, and eye color it can be safely assumed this amazing power increase would last far longer than his routine sun dips.

So he might not be an omnipresent god with new reality warping powers, but he could vaporize entire solar systems with his heat vision with that kind of increase. He could easily escape a super-massive black hole with that kind of speed and would be able to accurately determine what the smallest measure of matter would be and look like with that kind of enhancement to his microscopic vision. He would be unfazed by a point blank hypernova. Need I go on?

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@petieson said:

But just the mere fact that he sundipped in the sun for 15,000 years would put his power ASTRONOMICALLY higher than post crisis superman in terms of upfront demonstrations. When he sundipped for 15 minutes, he was able to move planets easily. A 15,000 year sundip is 15,000x12(months)x4(weeks)x7(days)x24(hours)x45(minutes subtract the 15 minutes he already spent in order to give a proper example)=5,443,200. Thats enough to lift a sizable portion of a galaxy. And since it was enough to actually change his physical appearence down to his skin, hair, and eye color it can be safely assumed this amazing power increase would last far longer than his routine sun dips.

So he might not be an omnipresent god with new reality warping powers, but he could vaporize entire solar systems with his heat vision with that kind of increase. He could easily escape a black hole with that kind of speed and would be able to accurately determine what the smallest measure of matter would be and look like with that kind of enhancement to his microscopic vision. He would be unfazed by a point blank hypernova. Need I go on?

But he...

Still can't beat Goku!

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@petieson said:

But just the mere fact that he sundipped in the sun for 15,000 years would put his power ASTRONOMICALLY higher than post crisis superman in terms of upfront demonstrations. When he sundipped for 15 minutes, he was able to move planets easily. A 15,000 year sundip is 15,000x12(months)x4(weeks)x7(days)x24(hours)x45(minutes subtract the 15 minutes he already spent in order to give a proper example)=5,443,200. Thats enough to lift a sizable portion of a galaxy. And since it was enough to actually change his physical appearence down to his skin, hair, and eye color it can be safely assumed this amazing power increase would last far longer than his routine sun dips.

So he might not be an omnipresent god with new reality warping powers, but he could vaporize entire solar systems with his heat vision with that kind of increase. He could easily escape a black hole with that kind of speed and would be able to accurately determine what the smallest measure of matter would be and look like with that kind of enhancement to his microscopic vision. He would be unfazed by a point blank hypernova. Need I go on?

You can keep charging a battery for 1 million years, it won't get past 100%

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#234  Edited By zenpaktoe82
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#235  Edited By petieson

@le0nhart: But superman doesnt have a "100%". He doesn't have any kind limit. His capacity for sunlight, (as long as its taken in a stable enough rate), is limitless so thus his powers are limitless. If he had a "100%" then his appearance wouldn't have changed much from the sun dip. But it did, which means it did in fact change his abilities to the usual extent that yellow sunlight does, just over the course of 15,000 years. The only kind of limits he's ever had were the mental blocks he accidentally placed on himself, which he's already conquered. So everything I just said still stands.

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@petieson said:

@le0nhart: But superman doesnt have a "100%". He doesn't have any kind limit. His capacity for sunlight, (as long as its taken in a stable enough rate), is limitless so thus his powers are limitless. If he had a "100%" then his appearance wouldn't have changed much from the sun dip. Bit it did, which a clear change from that sun dip. The only kind of limits he's ever had were the mental blocks he accidentally placed on himself which he has already conquered. So everything I just said still stands.

How do you know?

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mysticmedivh

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@petieson said:

But just the mere fact that he sundipped in the sun for 15,000 years would put his power ASTRONOMICALLY higher than post crisis superman in terms of upfront demonstrations. When he sundipped for 15 minutes, he was able to move planets easily. A 15,000 year sundip is 15,000x12(months)x4(weeks)x7(days)x24(hours)x45(minutes subtract the 15 minutes he already spent in order to give a proper example)=5,443,200. And that's not just a multiplier for his usual stats, that's a multiplier for the already large boost he gained from his 15 minute sundip. Even then if you just applied that multiplier to his usual endurance of 10 octillion megatons, you would get 5.4432e+34. Thats 5.4432 times 10 to the power of 34. His other stats would also be so astronomically large that they would be a power and exponent equation.

Think about that. Thats enough to lift a sizable portion of a galaxy. And since it was enough to actually change his physical appearence down to his skin, hair, and eye color it can be safely assumed this amazing power increase would last far longer than his routine sun dips.

So he might not be an omnipresent god with new reality warping powers, but he could vaporize entire solar systems with his heat vision with that kind of increase. He could easily escape a super-massive black hole with that kind of speed and would be able to accurately determine what the smallest measure of matter would be and look like with that kind of enhancement to his microscopic vision. He would be unfazed by a point blank hypernova. Need I go on?

How would that be any different than Dragon Ball fan calculations, or any fan calc for that matter saying so and so can destroy this and that despite not having the feats.

That is not to say he isn't powerful, but we just don't know and can't say for sure. Feats are needed.

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#238  Edited By petieson

@le0nhart: Because his solar capacity is infinite. In the years of his comics he has never been shown to have any kind of limit after awakening to his true infinite potential. He has the capacity to literally break physics by hearing Jimmies wrist watch 25 light years away from earth and was there in a few moments. True the time was not exact because its a comic book and all, but even if it was as much as 10 minutes thats still nearly 1 million times the speed of light. He has also lifted a book containing an infinite amount of pages, and carried a person composed of eternity. Therefore his abilities have an infinite cap.

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#239  Edited By petieson

@mysticmedivh: I'm not making a statement on golden supes' specific powers. Im making estimates based on his absurdly large stats. When I said he could do those things, that was at the LEAST. He can move planets after a 15 minute sundip, his 15,000 year sun dip was 362,213,333.33 times as potent as that. Meaning he could carry several stars and hundreds of planetary bodies, (that includes full size planets), all at once under his own strength. Meaning his speed would be quite possibly immeasurable, to the point where he would be able to catch up with the universes rate of expansion and actually see the edge of reality since golden superman would be at least 10 million times faster than the speed of light.

And his heat vision was already powerful enough to vaporize a planet WITHOUT a sundip. So imagine what he could actually do if he put all his power behind it in his golden form. I can say all this, because it is BELOW the potency of his 15,000 year sundip. Because it is lower than his maximum capabilities in his golden form.

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le0nhart

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#240  Edited By le0nhart

@petieson:

Because his solar capacity is infinite.

Where is that mentioned in the comics?

In the years of his comics he has never been shown to have any kind of limit after awakening to his true infinite potential. He has the capacity to literally break physics by hearing Jimmies wrist watch 25 light years away from earth and was there in a few moments.

Breaking physics laws happens all the time in fiction, so Superman hearing Jimmies watch which btw could be sending its signal at MFTL speeds, isn't something worth mentioning and Travel Speed =/= Combat Speed

True the time was not exact because its a comic book and all, but even if it was as much as 10 minutes thats still nearly 1 million times the speed of light.

Travel Speed =/= Combat Speed, a car can reach a speed of 254.04 mph, but it can't reach that speed after moving for a few meters which is required for combat

He has also lifted a book containing an infinite amount of pages, and carried a person composed of eternity. Therefore his abilities have an infinite cap.

The book was already levitating, putting your hand under something that is already levitating =/= lifting and they didn't carry the Spectre they tried to slow down his fall, but they failed, also Infinite pages =/= infinite mass

and if Superman had infinite strength he would have done those 2 feats on his own and he wouldn't have failed to stop Callisto when it was headed towards new Krypton

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It doesnt matter if wonder woman or captain marvel were helping out, since one half or third of infinity... is infinity. Thats how the number works. Also theyre clearly lifting it since theyre seen putting effort into it and are complementing the book on its immeasurable weight and wondering how it could be heavier than entire universes. Meaning he could lift them on his own without assistance since it doesnt matter how many people lift infinity. Also, Jimmies watch emits a frequency. A sound. Meaning it can't travel faster than light or faster than itself unless you provide evidence showing its somehow sped up. And superman can reach insane speeds during his fights. If you look through his comics than you'll find he can accelerate to high speeds within seconds, and when he was timed on a trip to the sun, he was also fighting wonder woman along the way and still reached FTL speeds.

Plus during a conversation with the flash, he sped up his senses and EVERY part of his body to continue talking to him despite the massive relativistic speeds they were moving at. Meaning Superman's super speed has almost no acceleration time at all.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130781/3706710-4016045162-26290.jpg

About that Callisto thing, you've taken that page out of context. I quote this from another website with a picture for proof, "Well, how's that for context? Callisto wasn't moving to New Krypton by itself, but it was traveling via a "Sunstone Crystal" technology utilized commonly for Kryptonian labor. Not only that, but if you actually read the comic, you'll find out that 1) most of the Kryptonians had literally just gotten their powers, and so were not too proficient in using them, 2) the Kryptonians were just in a battle with some renegade Thanagarian forces, so some of them might've been injured, 3) the advanced guidance system for the "Sunstone Crystal" technology was disrupted."

And, "Not only were Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern moving the Moon, but it's shown that they were also attempting to not overshoot the momentum of the Moon into the Planet itself, only to pass it by before pulling it back at the last second."

PLUS it was all in a vaccum. Meaning that if his solar contact was blocked then his solar power wouldve been limited to what he had and thus not infinite.

http://i35.tinypic.com/25s4kdx.jpg for the image, http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-super-underestimated-kryptonian-problem for the article itself.

I don't even necessarily need all these examples. The mere fact superman can super charge himself by sundipping whether it be for 15 minutes, 15 years, or 15,000 years to higher and higher levels of strength shows his power can grow limitlessly. If his solar battery capped at some point, then his appearance wouldn't have changed much from his 15,000 year sundip. True it's technically overcharging and not permanent, but he can still overcharge limitlessly. And even then thats simply because he's rushing it and his solar power needs time to be properly absorbed.

You have no proof for superman having solar limits. You have no panels or any official statements. Whereas I have examples that can be used to infer a limitless cap.

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le0nhart

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#243  Edited By le0nhart

@petieson:

It doesn't matter if wonder woman or captain marvel were helping out, since one half or third of infinity... is infinity. Thats how the number works.

1- The Spectre is stated to be heavy not infinite

2- Wonder woman does not have infinite strength

3- if he had infinite mass then he would have crushed everything under him, not to mention the insane amount of gravity he would have

Also theyre clearly lifting it since theyre seen putting effort into it and are complementing the book on its immeasurable weight and wondering how it could be heavier than entire universes. Meaning he could lift them on his own without assistance since it doesnt matter how many people lift infinity.

1- the book was clearly levitating before they touched it,

2- the book was never stated to have an infinite mass

3- they never said that the book is heavier than entire universes.

Also, Jimmies watch emits a frequency. A sound. Meaning it can't travel faster than light or faster than itself unless you provide evidence showing its somehow sped up.

How do you know that it emits sound and not some other signal that moves MFTL?? light has frequency too

And superman can reach insane speeds during his fights. If you look through his comics than you'll find he can accelerate to high speeds within seconds,

Reaching high speeds in seconds doesn't cut it, he needs to reach those speeds within a short distance like 1-2 meters

and when he was timed on a trip to the sun, he was also fighting wonder woman along the way and still reached FTL speeds.

That's travel speed, they weren't even fighting, Superman just held Wonder Woman and tried to take her to the sun

Plus during a conversation with the flash, he sped up his senses and EVERY part of his body to continue talking to him despite the massive relativistic speeds they were moving at. Meaning Superman's super speed has almost no acceleration time at all.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130781/3706710-4016045162-26290.jpg

Where does it state that the they were moving at relativistic speeds? you don't need relativistic speed to accomplish that feat

About that Callisto thing, you've taken that page out of context. I quote this from another website with a picture for proof, "Well, how's that for context? Callisto wasn't moving to New Krypton by itself, but it was traveling via a "Sunstone Crystal"technology utilized commonly for Kryptonian labor. Not only that, but if you actually read the comic, you'll find out that 1) most of the Kryptonians had literally just gotten their powers, and so were not too proficient in using them, 2) the Kryptonians were just in a battle with some renegade Thanagarian forces, so some of them might've been injured, 3) the advanced guidance system for the "Sunstone Crystal" technology was disrupted."

And, "Not only were Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern moving the Moon, but it's shown that they were also attempting to not overshoot the momentum of the Moon into the Planet itself, only to pass it by before pulling it back at the last second."

PLUS it was all in a vaccum. Meaning that if his solar contact was blocked then his solar power wouldve been limited to what he had and thus not infinite.

http://i35.tinypic.com/25s4kdx.jpg for the image, http://www.screwattack.com/news/superman-super-underestimated-kryptonian-problem for the article itself.

I didn't take anything out of context, Superman failed to stop Callisto and that's a fact, you are claiming that Superman has infinite strength, but the fact that he failed to stop Callisto proves otherwise, i doesn't matter how fast the moon was moving, if you have infinite strength you should stop it without any effort

I don't even necessarily need all these examples. The mere fact superman can super charge himself by sundipping whether it be for 15 minutes, 15 years, or 15,000 years to higher and higher levels of strength shows his power can grow limitlessly.

You said it yourself, he super charged himself after 15 minutes of sundip, claiming that he would keep getting stronger at the same rate after 15k years is just an assumption from your end

If his solar battery capped at some point, then his appearance wouldn't have changed much from his 15,000 year sundip. True it's technically overcharging and not permanent, but he can still overcharge limitlessly. And even then thats simply because he's rushing it and his solar power needs time to be properly absorbed.

You have no proof for superman having solar limits. You have no panels or any official statements. Whereas I have examples that can be used to infer a limitless cap.

You're the one claiming that his power will be multiplied by 5,443,200, so you're the one who needs to prove it, and i'm not saying that Superman's power won't increase at all, it's just that we don't know the rate that it would increase at

If you want to continue PM me

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Minaruto

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@mysticmedivh: Oh, you're still waiting for it? I thought that you didn't want me to do it coz you were using logical deductions on how SP1M is not that powerful?

I already pointed out a couple of outright lies in your presentation along with assumptions that chose to portray a lesser hero rather than a greater one.

The main problem with your premise is that you and some others are still using regular Supes as a benchmark of sorts when the portrayal is far far beyond that.

Herald level? LOL, that right there stunk up this stupid thread.

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petieson

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#246  Edited By petieson

@le0nhart:

I PMed you yet you still havent replied. Either youre ignoring me or you didnt get it so here.

Here's a quote from the panel where they lift him. "The Spectre's body is composed conciousness, a cosmic conciousness that contains eternity itself." The panel saying eternity is quite heavy was just the writers being clever. And DC doesnt take everything physics wise into consideration. If physics was applied in the way you described to superman, then he wouldnt be able to fly at light speed without bursting into pure energy or warping the fabric of space and time. But he does. And he lifted eternity. And if Wonder Woman doesnt have infintie strength then that means she was just lifting a quantifiable amount of the weight while superman was lifting everything. AKA eternity. And they did indeed lift him since the panel says "Yet the weight of my unconsious form was nearly too much for them." Not too much. Nearly too much

Captain Marvel said "How could it be bigger than universes?" Meaning it has the same mass. Meaning it has the same weight. Theyre commenting on the weight, therefore they're lifting it. Also, it was levitating prior because the artists wanted to make it magical and whimsical. Literally every thread that takes about this panel says theyre lifting it. If they arent lifting it, then what are they doing? Caressing it? And yes it was stated to have an infinite mass. In a previous panel Superman stated "A book containing an infinite amount of pages, all occupying the same space." An page is a form of mass. If theres an infinite amount of pages, there an infinite amount of mass.

Jimmies watch emits an ultra sonic frequency only superman can HEAR. Its a sound. The end. Literally look it up and you'll see. For example the DC comics Database.

In the panel superman said "Now that I've sped up my senses to match Flash's speed, it's like the whole world has frozen in place." Thats literally what relative speed is. Where you're moving the same speed as something else to where it appears normal. And since they're moving so fast, the world has slowed to a crawl from their perspective. This shows supermans speed has no real acceleration time. This is also shown in his fight against manchester black where he zips out of the way of his blasts near the end.

You did take it out of context. Superman not only sped up the moon's fall, but had to immediatly then push it back out of orbit. With no time to prepare his muscles for it. And again, if his direct connection to the sun is severed, then the force of the moon couldve drained his solar power. Plus supermans strength isn't infinite upfront. It has infinite potential.

Why would there be any kind of limiter or slowdown on his ability to absorb sunlight? That concept make's no sense. It's far more safe to assume he can digest sunlight at the same rate. Since there's no way to prove his rate would slow down.

I did prove it. I calculated the potency of his 15,000 year sundip. And no, your comments were asking how his potential was infinite, not that his rate would somehow differ. You never brought up the rate of his solar absorption.

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le0nhart

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@petieson:

Sorry i saw it when you sent it, but i was too busy then i totally forgot about it, i'll reply in the PM

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petieson

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@le0nhart: So when are ya gonna get onto that PM then?

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harmanswoodscpj

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(Speculatively) Hmmph… Well, I also don’t know from where “SP1M is second to only the Presence” came, but also I can’t agree with many points of this thread.

Most of arguments based on “he didn’t do that – which means he can’t do that” which is kinda ABC logic plus for the life of me I can’t see “DC One Million” context taken in account somewhere here. If I’ll have some time, I’ll write down what I find debatable, but so far – nope, not convinced.

You missed the whole point of the article. The whole point is, he didn't do that, so there is no reasonable ground to stand on that he CAN do that. You are not convinced that he can't do those feats but the problem with that stance is that every reason for you to believe that he can do those feats is debunked.

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mysticmedivh

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#250  Edited By mysticmedivh

@minaruto said:

@mysticmedivh: Oh, you're still waiting for it? I thought that you didn't want me to do it coz you were using logical deductions on how SP1M is not that powerful?

I already pointed out a couple of outright lies in your presentation along with assumptions that chose to portray a lesser hero rather than a greater one.

The main problem with your premise is that you and some others are still using regular Supes as a benchmark of sorts when the portrayal is far far beyond that.

Herald level? LOL, that right there stunk up this stupid thread.

Still waiting for you to debunk my thread.

According to you all of this is a lie, false, inaccurate, yet for all the barking you've done in this thread I haven't seen a single thing from you to discredit anything.