@realitywarper: Neutral? He/she took every implied statement and tried to explain how it goes against SP1M.
He CAN stop a universe collapsing just that Atom's collapsed a little too fast for him to stop in time. OP stated otherwise so he/she is definitely wrong there. To be able to do something on a universal level speaks volumes; the guy is massively powerful.
Again, 15,000 years in the future Super Sun implies the power he wields. But OP just glossed over it. SP1M granted his descendants powers FAR beyond any held by any metahuman ever!!! You grant when you have it. But somehow that is overlooked, lol.
He says that it's metaphors and biblical parallel when he came back from 70k years of travel, battles and learning. Geez people, look at his eyes! It's obvious he's changed and not your typical current Supes anymore. It's not just metaphors; he has come back with powers gleaned from the very edge of time and space.
OP did a good job breaking it down but the results are grossly misinterpreted. It's reeks of bias/hate towards who we ALL know to be the very top tier superhero in any universe:)
Herald level, lol. You Marvel tards wish it was so huh? No one should take any of you seriously with that statement.
@realitywarper: Neutral? He/she took every implied statement and tried to explain how it goes against SP1M.
He CAN stop a universe collapsing just that Atom's collapsed a little too fast for him to stop in time. OP stated otherwise so he/she is definitely wrong there. To be able to do something on a universal level speaks volumes; the guy is massively powerful.
Again, 15,000 years in the future Super Sun implies the power he wields. But OP just glossed over it. SP1M granted his descendants powers FAR beyond any held by any metahuman ever!!! You grant when you have it. But somehow that is overlooked, lol.
He says that it's metaphors and biblical parallel when he came back from 70k years of travel, battles and learning. Geez people, look at his eyes! It's obvious he's changed and not your typical current Supes anymore. It's not just metaphors; he has come back with powers gleaned from the very edge of time and space.
OP did a good job breaking it down but the results are grossly misinterpreted. It's reeks of bias/hate towards who we ALL know to be the very top tier superhero in any universe:)
Herald level, lol. You Marvel tards wish it was so huh? No one should take any of you seriously with that statement.
"Implied statement" ?
There is nothing implied...
Some fans made it up because they lack of reading skills.
@realitywarper: I was going to leave it alone being a thread of its kind but you haven't said anything to anything I posted which was a good amount straight out of the comic book.
So I don't understand what you're saying coz it really just applies to you:)
@realitywarper: I was going to leave it alone being a thread of its kind but you haven't said anything to anything I posted which was a good amount straight out of the comic book.
So I don't understand what you're saying coz it really just applies to you:)
@realitywarper: Wait, so SP1M says to Atom that the collapse happened too fast even for him to save it and you say he can't do it? Newsflash -- that means he CAN stop a collapsing universe if he's there in time.
Are you going to prove me wrong on SP1M granting powers to the Superman dynasty far beyond any metahuman ever?
Are you really that daft to question my reading skills while you blindly accept the OP's breakdown which I've proven false at least in this instance?
You really have almost 6000 posts that meant something?
Please say it isn't so.
Oh and here's a gem. Someone says SP1M can't bust Solaris nor save a collapsing universe (hint - it's you).
@minaruto@realitywarper Gentlemen, if you're going to debate then I suggest both of you head to the battle forums and challenge each other there. Otherwise, this thread doesn't need to turn into a big heated argument.
A sponge under water for 15 minutes or 15 months is none the wetter. SPOM was always dumb writing. I'm sorry. Its just another of DC Dragonball writing. People simply do not have the ability to imagine large numbers past around 20 or so. Might as well called it superman one kazillion billion. And don't worry super fans this thread don't mean nothing. Before long DC will have a fresh new superdupergokuman 107703938403021!!1!1 for you to pit against your anti monitors and living tribunals and beyonders on the boards. Yawn.
@kingofnerds: And that analogy will not work coz you're comparing real life and comics:)
The implication that Supes needed 15k years to fully charge up and become godly says that his upper limits have drastically increased. Don't forget that his 70k years of travel/battles/learning made him more powerful than any metahuman ever. He's not your regular Supes anymore. That's where this thread fails and the battle thread against Galactus and others fail. You're still talking regular Supes.
@minaruto: I get it. Its comics so I can suspend a lot of my disbelief but its just heavy handed and ultimately masturbatory and unneccasary. Its like marvel doing the kluh thing with hulk. Really? The hulk wasn't enough of a rage monster powerhouse to make stories with you have to make make a super sayain hulk? Hulk²? Its just silly to me.
you should really follow what you said earlier than make yourself look more foolish here.
in comicvine, we value feats more than speculations. whether or not the latter suits your argument won't matter because it is not technically seen on panel. posting this image solidifies your stubborn insistence against comicvine culture or for the better word, evidence based arguments on comicvine
@kyrees: True that feat-wise SP1M didn't show a lot.
But to compare only feats between a 2-comic character and one that's had hundreds of showings is grossly unfair.
That is why the implied statements, character comparisons (SP1M and S1M) and the whole purpose of the story should be taken into account to have a more solid understanding of the power level of a character.
But yes, if it's only feats then it makes SP1M that more vulnerable. The problem I have is that many will think that he will be herald level or so and that's really just a spite on a character who clearly is meant to be top tier at the end 85k years later and beyond.
But to compare only feats between a 2-comic character and one that's had hundreds of showings is grossly unfair.
That is why the implied statements, character comparisons (SP1M and S1M) and the whole purpose of the story should be taken into account to have a more solid understanding of the power level of a character.
But yes, if it's only feats then it makes SP1M that more vulnerable. The problem I have is that many will think that he will be herald level or so and that's really just a spite on a character who clearly is meant to be top tier at the end 85k years later and beyond.
Just sayin'.
it goes both ways. if implied statements, character comparisons and context show such significance to put him on a certain level, then he is one. unfortunately for SP1M, herald level is the highest afforded level to him through all the collated datas of him because skyfathers and thanos have better feats and implications than he has. heck, if we even take odin's "omnipotence" seriously, he should be way beyond anyone on marvel verse but he can't even defeat galactus.
the frequency of their feats also don't matter. TOAA and the ivory kings have appeared twice at best but are both widely considered as the true omnipotent and stronger than living tribunal respectively and their implications, character comparison and feats are higher than SP1M despite their relatively few appearences.
But to compare only feats between a 2-comic character and one that's had hundreds of showings is grossly unfair.
That is why the implied statements, character comparisons (SP1M and S1M) and the whole purpose of the story should be taken into account to have a more solid understanding of the power level of a character.
But yes, if it's only feats then it makes SP1M that more vulnerable. The problem I have is that many will think that he will be herald level or so and that's really just a spite on a character who clearly is meant to be top tier at the end 85k years later and beyond.
Just sayin'.
it goes both ways. if implied statements, character comparisons and context show such significance to put him on a certain level, then he is one. unfortunately for SP1M, herald level is the highest afforded level to him through all the collated datas of him because skyfathers and thanos have better feats and implications than he has. heck, if we even take odin's "omnipotence" seriously, he should be way beyond anyone on marvel verse but he can't even defeat galactus.
the frequency of their feats also don't matter. TOAA and the ivory kings have appeared twice at best but are both widely considered as the true omnipotent and stronger than living tribunal respectively and their implications, character comparison and feats are higher than SP1M despite their relatively few appearences.
So knowing that he can stop a collapsing universe and granted powers to the superman dynasty far beyond any ever held by any metahuman ever is herald level?
That's where I draw the line. The very fact that ALL of cosmos rejoiced his return doesn't happen to a herald-level being. Common sense dictates.
@minaruto: knowing to stop a collapsing universe =/= actually stopping a collapsing universe. it denotes arguments that he has limitations and needed time to do so, something skyfathers and thanos with IG hasn't shown to need. being granted by powers that you think he has and didn't use them against solaris pretty much sold the reasonable assumption to him to where he should be ranked accordingly
you know the odin omnipotence conundrum ? people like odin, sentry, darkseid have been called omnipotent and yet they don't match the claim. it's blank statement. "all of cosmos rejoicing his return" is simply like that; a blank statement. also heralds actually have shown cosmic level awareness on their own, something SP1M hasn't exactly shown. i will give you that the best feat a non boosted herald has shown is at a real black hole level but that's significantly better than character statements of SP1M.
you want to draw the line with such ambigous statements ? be my guest but anyone with reasonable estimation would put him on herald level, never on thanos, skyfather or galactus level.
Gentlemen, if you're going to debate then I suggest both of you head to the battle forums and challenge each other there. Otherwise, this thread doesn't need to turn into a big heated argument.
Much appreciated, thank you.
If you make threads I these, you are asking for flames to light.
I don't get the fanatic defense of a 2 comic character that didn't do anything and comes off like a fluff job.
Lack of reading comprehension perhaps?
Of course I see the desperate measures some take to discredit a character who deep down you know is way beyond skyfather level. But I've said my piece and hopefully some others will come and shed more light to all the negativity in this thread. It's all about half-empty and never half-full.
Of course I see the desperate measures some take to discredit a character who deep down you know is way beyond skyfather level. But I've said my piece and hopefully some others will come and shed more light to all the negativity in this thread. It's all about half-empty and never half-full.
i also see the same desperation to defend a character that is essentially a blank slate and is only being hyped.
you already said your piece a few posts back again; i wonder why you can't give up on something that is obvious as day and night.
Where did he show that he can stop a collapsing universe other than him stating that? What we should take what every comic book character says a true statement now?
When Thor or Wonder Woman say that they are Gods, should we consider them to have Omnipotence?
lol, gods are not omnipotent. Only The Presence and maybe Elaine Belloc and TOAA can claim that in both universes.
This whole thread tries to explain what SP1M can't do by showing what was done and how it was done. It's almost like saying SP!M could not form any other shape with the ring except for a hand is preposterous! Not once did it faithfully try to explain some statements that show him as an ultimate powerful hero.
Where it fails, and fails hard, is that it tries to justify its findings by assuming SP1M can't do what he didn't do. Common sense and reading comprehension gets thrown out the window only to be supplanted by theories that only work to lessen what he really is portrayed as.
If actual feats were being discussed of course it's mostly cut and dry with little debate and we can move on. When the story is understood within its context then it's pretty easy to surmise how powerful he really is as is the obvious intention of the whole series in showing how its number one superhero becomes that ultimate being.
Look, I'm not here to wage war with any of you. I understand there are many who don't like him for whatever petty reason but to honestly say he is just herald level looking at the whole story and its meaning is just a big face palm.
Where did he show that he can stop a collapsing universe other than him stating that? What we should take what every comic book character says a true statement now?
When Thor or Wonder Woman say that they are Gods, should we consider them to have Omnipotence?
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