50 from now, will goku ever be as iconic as superman?

@humanrocket:

That new DBZ Kai show isn't doing him any favors. Mr. Popo Blue? seriously go die DBZ Kai.

EXACTLY!!! I knew I couldn't have been the only one who noticed that politically correct bullsh*t! I mean, WTF?!?

"Go die" indeed..

Nah even Manga characters read Superman

He is more iconic in Japan for sure, but i doubt he would ever beat SM in the rest of the world.

No

50 what?

No

Nope. As popular as Goku is, I don't see him ever eclipsing or even becoming as iconic as Superman.

Ever? He is more iconic in certain cultures currently. I live in the center of Europe and Superman is less iconic than Spiderman.

Hero, saving the innocents? That's old fashioned, people don't buy that thing in a world where there aren't innocent people.

Although, Goku is the embodiment of training, a muscular nicely guy. People like training and watching/doing hard fights.

This is just my though, but the popularity is because Superman mostly known from comic book+old movies+short cartoon series.

Goku's popularity come from long anime series+more movies+games on multiple platform.

Good luck denying the fact that not everyone reading comic book.

Easily, yes. Coming from someone who is around grade school children on a daily basis, Goku is way better known than Superman. IF Goku keeps on starring in movies, games, books, TV shows, ETC... he'll be up there. Goku has a reputation already and he is undoubtedly an inspiration for many kids and his character has also inspired many other artists, writers already. He isn't Superman... yet, but he'll get there.

The DBZ games are like COD games..it's always the same thing yet they just try to change the gameplay mechanics. His anime series isn't that long..It just spans from dragonball up to the end of dragonball z(since I hear GT isn't canon) whereas Superman's comics have been around since the 40's. If I recall, Superman is actually the "first" superhero. It doesn't matter if everyone doesn't read comic books..They still know who he is even if they don't know his name. Hero saving the innocents is old fashioned? Batman still does it. Spider-man still does it. The Avengers still does it. Doesn't sound old fashioned to me..Oh and Goku saves innocents too so idk why you said that

@gambit474: My longer comment is gone, thanks to the opera browser... I'll be shorter now.

"The DBZ games are like COD games" Just another proof for popularity.

"anime series isn't that long..It just spans from dragonball up to the end of dragonball z(since I hear GT isn't canon)"

What are you talking about? Much longer than the Superman cartoons, and for some reason even the hateful GT is more watched and liked than Superman cartoons. This isn't a battle, canon things are out of the question, we talk about the iconic question. The Supermen you like/admire isn't original versions either.

The most popular version of Superman currently is the Smallville, but that's rather a super-man, and not the classical Superman. JLA cartoon is a forever classic to me, but it's too short. I don't know why wasn't they continued longer.

"They still know who he is even if they don't know his name" It doesn't matter if they don't give a cr4p about him, just as an irrealistic superdude.

People don't empathize with someone who hide his true identity and save "innocents". While they can empathize with someone who trains to get better and fight with willpower.

Think what you want, I just told from what I see and experience around me.

the real deal

Popularity doesn't equal to quality..COD might be popular but it's hated by many gamers. If you don't believe me then go see how many jokes are made about it on gaming pages and such. Superman's cartoons don't mean anything since majority of what people know of these characters comes from films and comics..Even video games too. It doesn't matter what version of Superman it is..The fact remains that it's still Superman and people still know or have knowledge of who/what he is.

"Trains to get better and fight with willpower"..Not to mention Goku's pretty dumb and can't even drive a car half the time. People don't empathize? Says who..you? It sounds like you're taking your opinion and applying "people" to it to make it sound as if that's what everyone else thinks when they really don't

In 50 years Superman stories will still be published. In 50 years, Goku will not have had an anime or manga for many, many years.

I don't think so

50 years from now, nobody will remember who Goku was.

Goku doesn't hated by anyone except Superman fans or such pointless haters. There is no point in hating, there is no reason to hate him, an average man who have an own real life, doesn't hate fictional characters. COD wouldn't be a popular game if it wouldn't be an entertaining game, no matter what counter excuse you want to say, numbers doesn't confirm you. Popularity serves numbers, more numbers give more percentage of being liked by average people. Because, you know, it's for entertainment. Dragon Ball isn't low quality, it's funny you even try to suggesting that. Nothing proves what your own opinion. Not even you. If popularity 20 years AFTER THE ORIGINAL SOURCE ENDED doesn't equal quality, then what do you want to tell for that a still ongoing storylines and reboots with Superman still less known than Goku's stories?

"It sounds like you're taking your opinion and applying "people" to it to make it sound as if that's what everyone else thinks when they really don't" Say it to yourself...:

"Not to mention Goku's pretty dumb and can't even drive a car half the time" He is not iconic because he is not a genious and there is an episode when he went to driving license??? LOL you just spreading your hating, a normal man watched that to have fun, not judging them. Even if I suppose your argument would be valid, you are still wrong because the 'boss' told them they are so good they doesn't need a driving license.

I have said what I saw and experience, in reality. "Though boys" and weak boys as well, in school would like to be more like Goku, and not Superman, they doesn't give a single *stuff* about him even if his name isn't unknown. Everything that Superman have, Goku also have in way that stays closer to the average young people.

ICONIC - this question focus on good things, the good things about Goku more liked by average people, because they easier and more useful to empathize. This is not opinion, this is empirical psychology. Stop reply me with useless misleading denying. Time will refute you anyway.

Everyone I know and I do mean everyone and I know and I deal with quite a bit of people know Superman if I even uttered the words Goku they would be confused and think I was referring to an Asian dish, now everyone from my 6 year old nephew to my 90 year old great grandma know Superman and some of his origins.

I saw a ghost, then a bigfoot tried to eat me after a black cat crossed my way, because the stars on the sky predicted that I going to have a bad day. Only luck was that a mutant bearmanpig and manpigbear walked around there and said the bigfoot that they found a ninja shoe on to his foot, and then they teleported away. It's true because I am here, I would be dead if it's wouldn't be true.

... think about it.

@mypasswordis1234: cool story but belongs in fan fiction forum

@mypasswordis1234: seriously, i can relate to what binski said. superman has had a far longer run (70+ years) than goku (30+ years) has. that longer run doesn't give any edge to goku at all. goku can be argued to have good games or longer tv series but when kal has been rebooted so many times in comics, tv or movies and has been the source of inspiration to authors like toriyama who created dragonball, it tells quite a lot.

i don't see goku being as iconic as superman even 50 years from now because there's lack of publicity to him compared to superman.

@kyrees: true that sir.

Goku is already an icon in asia..

But superman is iconic in the west.

Never

http://www.avclub.com/article/jukebox-superhero-26-songs-about-superman-99044

Good, good! Yes. That was my message in summary to you. Your post is equal with a vote of who do you like more if you can't back it up with some legit fact, argument. The question isn't "who do and your friends like more" it's "will goku ever be as iconic" Do you know a lot of people? How much? hundreds? thousand? millions? And where do you live, on the moon? Look at this post:

Exactly.

I live in Europe, people can access to both, especially nowadays with internet, and where I live, I saw every kind of people from every age, interested in DB/DBZ/DBGT, or even if not in the series, they want to play dbz games, joking with kamehameha move, calling dry muscular guys Son-Goku with sarcastic joking, etc. They know Superman too, as it was in movie, and there was a cartoon, but it's less popular than Spiderman. Why? Doesn't matter why, by facts, they prefer DBZ. There are people who don't even care the story just want to watch entertainment fights. Isn't Goku iconic, because somewhere they don't know nothing about the asian culture? A lot of young and old people call the whole series "SON GOKU" LOL.

edit: I have just asked an "average people", some relative-in-law of me, a ~15 year old girl who is pretty popular in the village and school, she know both Superman and Goku, she doesn't care about any of them but even she said "oh, Goku, they are being crazy for him" LOL :D

@kyrees: Why do you bother bringing it up who is the older art? We are observe the PRESENT. In the present, Superman with his 70+ years was rebooted a lot of times, and still isn't as popular as Goku, between people who know both. The dragon ball anime was ended 20 years ago and it's still so popular, succesfull, it doesn't even worth mentioning, it's obvious.

"has been the source of inspiration to authors like toriyama who created dragonball" I don't know what do trying to say, but Toriyama inspired the whole HST, what does it say to you? It is confirmed. Can you confirm what you say, and what is this "tells a lot", tell me a "lot", don't be shy. :)

In Japan, Goku is their Superman. In the states, no, DBZ isn't even as good as Naruto.

Since you're European I'm just going to assume that you don't read English very well..I said that COD was overrated and hated,not Goku. COD's mostly popular because it's populated by noobs and kids..You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The point of it was that just because it's popular DOESN'T mean it's better. The DBZ games need to give it a rest already since they're like beating a dead horse..No new magna's/animes=nothing more for them to go on other than rehashing over and over what's already there. I'm not wrong at all bud because you're the only one who's in the wrong here. Nobody cares what you've seen and experienced..Facts are because Superman can continually come out with new material he will always be relevant and known compared to Goku that nobody except the anime community or Japan's side of the world knows.

Superman is the epitome of what a hero is so you aren't doing anything by bringing up what you think about Goku. "Stop reply me"..How about you stop replying until you actually know what you're talking about instead of spewing out your biased opinions. Hell DBZ isn't even the top anime in Japan. Facts>your opinions

@mypasswordis1234: yeah i was relating personal information I gathered over the years based on no worldly fact just like you what's your point?

In Latin America he's already somewhat close to that.

He's insanely popular over here, like annoyingly popular.

He's already pretty iconic in Japan, and in Latin Countries.

@gambit474: Since you're European I'm just going to assume that you don't read English very well"

Don't assume such thing, that's just your wish leaded thinking. How is that you are native english and still don't get what I am saying? I got your points very well, and you are wrong with the written and hidden suggestions.

"You obviously don't know what you're talking about" No, it's just like you think you cannot make a mistake, everyone else just stupid who doesn't agree with you.

I know exactly what I am talking about, that's why I am writing here, geez.

"The point of it was that just because it's popular DOESN'T mean it's better." I already react to this. So you read english very well but then read a little slower, maybe you will understand it too.

The dragon ball has already ENDED. E-N-D-E-D

It is still popular because it's LIKED. L-I-K-E-D by people.

Popularity doesn't mean it's better, but you are trying to suggesting that it isn't good. IT'S GOOD. That's why it is liked by so many people, that's why it inspired countless artist for arts and boys to train, and such. Even the COD games were good, very good. The EA, the corporation's money-oriented thinking leaded to the hatred from smarter gamers. Not the game itself, that was made by infinity ward, etc...

Your analogy just proves that you are wrong.

"The DBZ games need to give it a rest already since they're like beating a dead horse" Maybe true. I have played Budokai T. 2-3, and some old fan-made "mugen" games. If someone don't like a game - don't play it. It's that easy. So what proving here that Goku is not iconic, Superman is the superstar?

"No new magna's/animes=nothing more for them to go on other than rehashing over and over what's already there"

What, you think that there isn't any new db related/based manga, arts after the Z? And still so confident in yourself? Go look at Dragon Ball multiverse, Dragon Ball new age. Just to mention the two best. These are virtually non profit fan mangas. There are more like these, not only these two, and there are many more fan arts. These are all feeding the iconic rule of Goku(and Vegeta, and the rest).

"I'm not wrong at all bud because you're the only one who's in the wrong here."

Hmm... Oh, I get it, that's good point, thank you.

"Nobody cares what you've seen and experienced.." Yet you replying me, or just feel yourself offended, when you are out of arguments? LOL.

Anyway, this is the theme of the thread. The OP opened the thread and I am writing here, and you keep reply me. Go tell the same for everyone else who writing a single name or sentence in threads "no one cares what you say". ridiculous.

" Superman can continually come out with new material" If you want to stay with the COD analogy, The DC do the same with Superman like the EA with COD. Yeah, new material, very interesting... *zzzZZZzzzZZZ* lifting up planet, wow, it is so interesting.... for some american comic maniac?

"e will always be relevant and known compared to Goku that nobody except" Except the rest of the world. :D Goku is more popular in certain europe countries for sure, and in eastern countries probably. You don't have a single valid point.

"Superman is the epitome of what a hero is" Yeah. That's old fashioned. Do you think people love him for being a hero? That's absurd. A joke. It's like someone would admire Wonder Woman for having an invisible airplane. That was good for pilots in war, but nowadays barely anyone gives a *stuff* about it. There is no reason to care about such thing. We have the essay theme from "heroism" at final exam in 2012. The official websites about the results doesn't refer to Superman at all, by any means.

"How about you stop replying until you actually know what you're talking about instead of spewing out your biased opinions." Yeah, the good old FANBOY argument, isn't it? I am neutral, think what you want, but proving what you think is harder(especially because you are wrong).

"Hell DBZ isn't even the top anime in Japan. Facts>your opinions"

Who said it is? What facts against what opinion?

What? If you don't quote then write proper sentences at least, this is not a facebook chat room.

in most of the Europe i don't think there is more than 1 in 15 person knows who Goku is. And his golden age is already long gone.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2014/02/06/bandai-namco-holdings-q3-fiscal-2014-figures/

Here's Dragonball's total revenue from the last 9 months.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2012.htm

Here's the box office take of Man of Steel: $668,045,518

I'll let y'all convert yen to dollars and take a gander.

lol, no

@mypasswordis1234: I'm on a phone at work and can't quote on mobile and I'm not listing every contradictory thing you mentioned were just going to have to agree to disagree.

Who? :p

Even in Japan and Such Superman is well known. The average girl who doesn't even get into Manga or Comics from any culture may know who Superman is. Goku is not like that so nope.

it's relevant to bring the past because it's what shaped the present. you really can't vouch that goku is more popular than superman when a movie with superman gets publicized as often. a new movie of goku ? that takes a lot to publicize and it's only a limited run when they actually do publications. yes, the dragonball ended 20 years. superman never ended. superman has technically been finished 40 years ago and yet they still reboot it. do you even understand the massive advantage superman has over dragonball ?

toriyama inspiring the whole HST isn't big when superman practically inspired the comic superhero business in both east and west fronts. toriyama wouldn't be creating something like dragonball z if he wasn't inspired by superman. if it weren't for superman, you wouldn't be enjoying dragonball z. even if dragonball was based on the monkey king legend, do you think dragonball would grow as dragonball z it is if it were not inspired by superman ?

so tell me, are you the kind of guy who ignores the past because what you are posting here is exactly like that. you keep pointing to the present but there would be no present if the past didn't pave a way.

@kyrees: uuuum I think akira would be able to continue the story without the influence of Superman because the series would be my favorite since he will stay focused on better fighting scenes and strategies IMO.Hoenstly if he did that,dbz would be my fav series

So.. just the movie vs all of what Dragonball did? Not entirely fair.

@dagmar_merrill:

I'm pretty sure the movie is all Superman needs.

Google tells me otherwise, 7 billion yen is 1.2 billion dollars. Feel free to correct me if I did something wrong.

@sondeatheater: a lot of the things you see in manga and comics owe an inspiration to superman considering he was the first popular superhero. tell me, how would toriyama rewrite dragonball without the element of superman in it ?

@dagmar_merrill you're using the wrong exchange rate. current exchange rate would say 7 billion yen roughly equals 68 million dollars both ways

I think in Japan, he is likely already MORE iconic than Superman. But in the US or on an international stage? I dont believe he'll ever be nearly as iconic. Its funny, both Superman and Goku are tightly tied into the cultures that created them, but Superman represents the beginning of the super hero era.

All comics after Action Comics owe it something. And after Donner's Superman, so do all Super Hero Movies. Superman will always be the most iconic super being.

Only 68 Million?!

@dagmar_merrill: 1 Japanese Yen equals 0.0098 US Dollar. that's today exchange rate

@dagmar_merrill:

Woops... It looks like I just lowballed the yen...

Then bring it on, the past. What you did was just telling me Superman has a longer run THEREFORE he is more iconic, more popular, more anything.

Those who today between 5 year old and 40 year old, doesn't often see the silver age series, only if the stories remade in a better looking art, or the person is a big comic fan. Superman's 70 year old self isn't reaching into an average people's present, only the newer things.

And it's ridiculous I have to repeat the same obvious fact again that I was already written. The question was "will ever be as iconic". The answer is, HE IS MORE ICONIC IN CERTAIN CULTURES CURRENTLY. That's an irrefutable fact, the OP wasn't aware of it, ok, but why do you bother denying it?

Do you want to decide the OVER THE ALL WORLD? By which aspect? You can't see into everyone's mind. The money profit has no real view on how much liked by how many people, and such.

"massive advantage superman has over dragonball ?" I TOLD YOU, tell that, advantage in what? Do you even know what are we talking about?

"toriyama inspiring the whole HST isn't big" The HST is just a small part of the whole thing, it was a quick, confirmed example. But for this sentence alone, that you dared to write such statement even if it's not the complete sentence, you just proving that you lack of any respect toward other cultures and you are not reliable source of information in a question like this.

"when superman practically inspired the comic superhero business in both east and west fronts." Two thing:

1. It wasn't Superman alone.

2. It doesn't matter at all if people forgot his old self. They only know him in the present. Our world is not only from 70 year olds... there are younger ones.

"toriyama wouldn't be creating something like dragonball z if he wasn't inspired by superman." I said PROVE IT. PROVE. P R O V E it with true proofs. To confirm you say something true.

And then write that how is this related with each other. Because what you suggesting is full of logical fallacy, I doesn't even bother to name it.

Do you think Superman was the first supernatural being from above? Geeeeez.

You seems to lack basic lexical and non lexical knowledge.

"dragonball z it is if it were not inspired by superman" I hope you not trying to refer things like "they are from alien planet, they are in red uniform, they are strong, they are etc"

1. Say something that you can confirm.

2. Say what is that confirm.

P.S.: Look after logical fallacies on wiki.

My point is to stick with the main theme of the thread and if you decide to reply, read carefully what I am writing without feel yourself offended, I don't like plain flamewars that are generated by narrow minded people. That's why even the dbz vs comic is banned from the battleforum. Read back threads if you want, people just spreading hates toward foreign culture and call each other fanboys, dbztard and such, but it's ironic those people are who say such things always the ones who can't debate properly.

Personal information is OK, but that's just the half part of the information you can get.