This is surely overkill, and dilutes the searchable database

in the Credits of Egos #1 I think people may have gone over the top with the credits.

Someone or Someones have included absolutely all the company listings for Image comics that appears at the bottom of the opening page with the indicia.

Ie Robert Kirkman: COO, Erik Larsen, Chief Financial Officer, Todd McFarlane: President

Surely this is overkill as we'll have he same few people in credits of every single Image Comic!!

Edit: just noticed the same is the case for Revival #16 and Fatale 19.

@nodnolan: it's not really overkill, you don't know if any of those people directly or indirectly worked on the specific issue: layout designers, production artists and graphic designers can all have a hand in a finished product and since the data is available it would be a shame not to include it and it's not exactly hard to find out what role the person had, it is usually on their creator page, that's the point of Other being a role, all the major roles are included so its not hard picking out who the main creators are. I've put in a couple of requests to have more role's added to clear some things up too so hopefully that could happen in the future.

@nodnolan: also every single Image comic won't have the same misc. credits as staff members change out, some positions regularly, as an extension it can be a visual record of staff members chronologically so some users could actually find that to be useful similar to how ads in comics have historical value because they show how things were during specific time periods.

@pikahyperIf the only listing in a comic is Chief Financial Officer for the publisher, I think its pretty safe to say they didn't directly or indirectly work on a comic.These listings in the comic are company information, not credits! They just happen to be included with the indicia by mandate.

@pikahyperJust a quick look at Robert Kirkmans comic appearances and his Brit One Shots get pushed aside simply because COO is suddenly a credit?

In other comics people like Inkers and pencillers get shunted down the list for an Accounting Assistant. This is COMIC Vine, not linkedin. Surely?

@renchamp: but it's not a credit. It's the company information. Shall I tweet Erik Larsen and see who cleans the toilets?

Its obvious what should be in the credits on this page. The text is hardly even readable bottom left next to Image's 'i' and I absolutely believe should not count as credit worthy in issue details. It devalues the database if it is included.

@nodnolan: this has been going on for years, the only reason you are noticing now is because Image lists so many people, by far Image lists the most people in every single issue and collected edition, after them is DC who only does it for trades, then Dark Horse again just for trades, then Marvel just for trades and Alonso, Quesada, Buckley and Fine with every single issue, IDW has a bunch for all issues and trades, Zenescope again with both plus they credit four working on every single "story" when one or none of them actually wrote all the issues and then the rest of the publishers just do an average amount.

As Ren posted though we are trying to be as complete as possible and sometimes these misc. workers get promoted or do double duty, Betsy Gonia is a managing editor for all Top Cow issues but she is also an editor and some others, some of the misc. people listed in the IDW fine print also do design work, lettering, editing and production work, showing all their credits is a more complete catalog of their work in the industry.

Even if we were to stop how are we to know where to draw the line? what roles are "worthy" of being cataloged and which aren't? there are over a hundred roles in comics and since we have no idea what some of these jobs really are and if they work indirectly or directly with an issue we could inadvertently be leaving people out.

@pikahyper: Credits for that Ego #1 issue are in the big text. Everything else is corporate bumf. Image has been listing all that in comics for their 20 year history.... so why has people putting it on comic vine only started in the last 5 months.

It is not valid to the creation of that comic. They are credited in big text. (which is equivalent to the date on a Marvel credits page) it is valid to the working of the company. They do not work on the individual comics.

Robert Kirkman being Chief Financial Officer of a company SHOULD NOT qualify him for being on the credits of every comic Image produces, especially as Comic Vine has functions that list the amount of 'appearances' of a creator for a comic. Kirkmans not had ANY input but he'll appear above fill in artists an letterers. and within a couple for months his Marvel Team Up, his Brit, His Tech Jacket will be buried below any long running series.

People Use the Database to go and see what Kirkman has written. Not what he has been CFO for.

Surely it wouldn't be considered to put Stan Lee in the listing of everything that Said 'Stan Lee Presents...' for Marvel in the 90's as that was just contractual obligation and he had nothing to do with the comic.

Its all well and good being the most completist database out there, but if you're putting so much unneccessary info in a listing that its making it difficult to find information in database searches it should stop.

Down with these shenanigans!

BB

@nodnolan: again how do you distinguish who directly and indirectly worked on the comic? in those Image credits are you telling me all three of those production artists and the production manager had nothing to do with EGOs #1? Other work goes into a comic besides the primary creative team, somebody designed that cover, someone came up with the layout and graphics for the credits page, someone probably even designed the font or at least chose it. Why are you focused specifically on Image? Why not complain about Joe Quesadas creator page being "cluttered" up by his CCO credits of which there are way more? Long and the short of it there is no rule saying what credits should or shouldn't be added, those people are listed on the credits page and they had some hand in putting out the issues you read and they deserve some credit for it, some of them have even joined the site and edited because of it.

uh huh, you're part of those "shenanigans", I don't see you skipping over Alonso, Quesada, Buckley and Fine with Marvel issues, you add them like everyone else :P

They get a pass with their big credits.

BB

@pikahyper: Thats exactly what i'm saying all those production artists and production manager had nothing to do with the comic. Thats how Image comics works.

I don't buy Marvel comics, but I would absolutely agree that Alan Fines involvement in the creation of books is questionable. Joe Quesada may make it to the odd Creative assembly so it is possible he may have had limited involvement.

With Image the comic is completely designed and created by the people in the credits, who simply supply a high res finished comic. The people in the company information have absolutely nothing to do with the comic and to include them in the credits is doing a disservice to the creators.

@billy_batson: big credits as in the physical height of their names in the comic?

Mmhmm.

BB

@nodnolan: That may be how Image "works" but that is not always how it always plays out, some of those people in the Image credits do actually work on the actual comic, sometimes it is reflected in the main credits section sometimes it's not, not every creative team can put together a book from start to scratch, sometimes they need help and that is what Image provides.

@billy_batson: but their names are not always big, sometimes they are super small in trades or very busy credits pages. Sometimes Fine isn't even in them, Fine is never added to adaptations for some reason like Oz but the rest get listed.

The people who makethe comics. (In the case of EGOs Stuart Moore, and Gus Storm) write the credits and design the inside cover. That portion is the top two thirds of the comic is the people who made the comic.

The bottom portion is the standard indicia (provided by Image but including copyright info) this is a set text that include people who work for Image but who DID NOT produce the book.

I do not get why this is difficult to differentiate.

The Joe Q, Alan Fine thing is different, those are ludicrously mandated to be in the credits page. That is different from the set text in the indicia.

Robert Kirkman had NOTHING to do with Morning Glories. Its a book in Valentino's part of Image. There is absolutely no way that Kirkman should be on the database credits page of the book once, let alone for 5 issues.

@nodnolan: We are just going in circles, the Image credits that you say are a set text are not a set text, they change, sometimes people are left off for issues, sometimes the roles change for an issue or two, some people leave new people get added. Unless you can provide a clear cut definitive list of these should be added these shouldn't be added set of roles for all comics then this conversation will go nowhere. I understand that you specifically do not like that they are added but we can't please everyone but as Ren stated a while ago "And this is Comic Vine, a database for everything comics. If someone is credited in a comic then they get included. We are complete - or at least trying to be.", also I've already been contacted by two staff members about the credits and not been told to stop or to disallow them being added so this is the last I'm posting about the subject, I've got wiki work to do.

indeed for everything comics..... not for eveything business though. Surely these people have to be put under 'other' as the database was not designed for this info.

I would love to hear input from @comicvine

@g_man: could you please clarify if having 20-30 'other' listings in the credits for every Image title is the way forward?

Many thanks

This is something I'm not the biggest fan of, but it can increase traffic to the site through Google searches, so as much as I hate it, it's for the greater good.

Thankyou for the clarification.

Is it possible to increase the list of 'Creators' roles so less are going into the system as 'other'?

@nodnolan: that is actually something I've been asking for for ages so hopefully once the engineers start updating the site more in the coming months it might get worked in, I started a list of roles a while back in the Suggestion thread. Ideally I think it might be even better to have two "creator" association areas, the first regular one at the top for the people directly credited and a second for "Staff" or some other descriptive title in a second area at the bottom below story arcs where these auxiliary people can be added that way a ton of check boxes won't need to be added to the Creators area.

@pikahyper: I think the absolute imperative is that the people who are page rated are distinguishable from those who are not & a two tier system would work with that.