#1 Edited by wmwadeii (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I understand the site rule is to keep a death even if it learned later they didn't die or were resurrected, or whatever. If while reading the issue it is stated they died, then they died. Publishers will always bring them back so STOP REMOVING DEATHS.

/End rant this was in response to Professor X whose 2 other deaths have been removed again.

#2 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

YEAH, this aggravates me to no end too. I had to go through and re-add all the Onslaught deaths for the fifth or so time the other day.

And people keep having it so that Thor has zero deaths listed, he dies like every other day.

#3 Edited by fesak (7061 posts) - - Show Bio

I re-added a bunch just the other day. With the new wiki history it would be possible to see who removes them, so hopefully we can set a stop to this eventually.

And off-panel deaths shouldn't count imo, i'm thinking of the likes of; Oh No! Human Torch got stuck in the Negative Zone, surely he's dead, wont bother checking.

Moderator
#4 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, i think in the case of Torch, Marvel made a big deal about it being a death and for a while it was assumed to be his death, so it makes sense to list it even though he was fine.

#5 Posted by RazzaTazz (9679 posts) - - Show Bio

@fesak said:

And off-panel deaths shouldn't count imo, i'm thinking of the likes of; Oh No! Human Torch got stuck in the Negative Zone, surely he's dead, wont bother checking.

I think this is the unofficial rule, also things like in alt realities. It is kind of pointless to have this for Resurrection Man though

Moderator
#6 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@fesak said:

And off-panel deaths shouldn't count imo, i'm thinking of the likes of; Oh No! Human Torch got stuck in the Negative Zone, surely he's dead, wont bother checking.

I think this is the unofficial rule, also things like in alt realities. It is kind of pointless to have this for Resurrection Man though

On that note what about deaths along the lines of Infinity Gauntlet where Thanos wishes half the Universe dead and they're all dead until it's reversed or the Avengers story where they fight Death and all but Captain America and Hawkeye die only to be resurrected by story's end. But i noticed Fesak added all the X-Men's deaths from the awful story with Adversary and they were likewise resurrected by issue's end. So where do we draw the line at what counts as a death and a cop-out?

#7 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

Also on alt deaths, what about characters like Nighthawk who's alt counterpart is just as established as his main counterpart and had an iconic death too.

#8 Posted by RazzaTazz (9679 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that falls to editor discretion, though perhaps adding deaths would be another thing that should be locked up to a point.

Moderator
#9 Posted by wmwadeii (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

I was always under the impression like X that if the publishers made a big to do about it like Torch and Xavier then it counted because it was originally a death that just got retconned out.

I was thinking the same that maybe this should be locked down until somebody has so many points on that characters page like the new background feature.

#10 Posted by fesak (7061 posts) - - Show Bio

In Fall of the Mutants the X-Men clearly dies, even if they're resurrected right away, so i would count that before Human Torch where the death wasn't shown, and turns out didn't happen at all.

For alternate realities i think it should count if it was a major story, ie: count the death of Ultimate Peter Parker, but not random deaths in What If?s

Moderator
#12 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

But yes... when the Avengers fight Death; Black Knight, Captain Marvel, Doctor Druid, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Silver Surfer, Thor, Tigra, Wasp and Wonder Man all die. Should they be listed because they specifically do die but the story is largely irrelevant and forgotten about - but then so is Fall of the Mutants.

#13 Posted by Renchamp (2626 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: "Forgotten about" shouldn't matter if someone actually died. Cannonball died in the early X-Force run but no one talks about it anymore since the Externals story line has been completely ignored (thanks to Liefeld's stellar idea of immortals, which was a direct rip-off of Highlander). It's forgotten about but it still happened, like the Fall of the Mutants. It's lame, but cop-outs and legit deaths seem to be treated the same in our system.

Moderator
#14 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

But I can easily see this sorta stuff being removed even more out of ignorance. I mean how many Iron Man or Thor fanatics are even aware of the existence of the Death crossover from the 80s.

#15 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

A few more irrelevant ones:

But, yeah, do any of these and the above one with Death count? Should they? Imo, they're on the same level as all the X-Men's deaths in Fall of the Mutants; beneficial to only one story and immediately reversed but confirmed as actual deaths.

#16 Edited by fesak (7061 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, those should count, except for off-panel and assumed deaths. Though it seems a bit redundant to list every death every time the universe has been destroyed and restored which has happened quite a few times.

Moderator
#19 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

can we just get rid of marvelman1985? guy doesn't understand what death or disband means at all.

#20 Posted by JediXMan (30976 posts) - - Show Bio

Question: is there any point in adding deaths for characters who die multiple times? I'm talking about characters who have the ability to bring themselves back, transfer their souls, etc. And no, I'm not talking about Jean; her deaths are spaced far enough apart.

Moderator
#21 Edited by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

Resurrection Man's death section is hilarious in that regard.

Moderator