#1 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe this has been brought up before, it doesn't seem fitting to create a team for every race out there. Wouldn't it be better suited to have all of these race "Teams" be concepts?

Some examples are:

Kryptonians

http://www.comicvine.com/kryptonians/45710/

Kree

http://www.comicvine.com/kree/7588/

Skrulls

http://www.comicvine.com/skrulls/40668/

Sentinels

http://www.comicvine.com/sentinels/4296/

Brood

http://www.comicvine.com/brood/4987/

Eternals

http://www.comicvine.com/eternals/13344/

Celestials

http://www.comicvine.com/celestials/13343/

#2 Posted by Satyrquaze (4536 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

The page that linked to isn't the Ultraman I was thinking off. I was thinking of the leader of the Crime Syndicate. He is Kryptonian and for some reason listed as being from DC's forerunner, even though I'm sure he's not old enough. http://www.comicvine.com/ultraman/39082/

Having checked, that character isn't a DC character at all. I'll fix it tomorrow so that the right Ultraman is on the DC page.
Post Edited:2007-07-16 17:30:14

#4 Posted by fesak (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually both pages seems to refer to the same Ultraman if you look at the issues attached.

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#5 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad to see we're accomplishing something ; )

#6 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

True. As I say, tomorrow I'll go through the DC one more thoroughly.

#7 Posted by Shatterstar (5120 posts) - - Show Bio

I've got the opposite opinion, at least as teams you can link to them as friends or enemies from other characters and identify who belongs and there isn't anything particularly conceptual about them.

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#8 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"I've got the opposite opinion, at least as teams you can link to them as friends or enemies from other characters and identify who belongs and there isn't anything particularly conceptual about them. "

It sort of dilutes the concept of a team, though. Besides, being a member of a particular race means nothing in terms of allegiance or common friends or enemies. Being part of an actual team, however, does. Besides, information on things such as common enemies or friendly groups can just as easily be covered in the description of the concept. I still feel like they would be better served as concepts and leave the designation of team for actual teams.

#9 Posted by Shatterstar (5120 posts) - - Show Bio

Disagree on pretty much everything there. The concept of team is already diluted, there's a dozen different examples on the vine from Marvel Zombies to the Air Force to Midnight Sons, people are using it as a general categorization. Why have the friends/enemies tabs at all if it can just be easily stated in the description? While it might not apply to all races, it certainly applies to some. There are characters that would see all Kree or Brood or Martians for example as enemies and vice versa. The same argument about allegiance or enemies can be applied to teams also- being a part of a team doesn't necessarily mean anything about common friends or enemies. What about members being mind controlled or forced against their will?

Besides all that I still don't see how they're concepts. From the create an article page - "Concepts are ideas or beliefs that exist in a comic universe. "Mutant" or "Gamma Rays" are good examples of concepts..." How is Brood a concept? The idea behind Brood would be a concept, like Imperialistic Invading Aliens or Parasites or something. Brood itself isn't a concept anymore than Asgardians or SHIELD.

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#10 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to have to continue by disagreeing with pretty much everything you are saying, too. I will cover your main points.

Shatterstar says:

"The concept of team is already diluted, there's a dozen different examples on the vine from Marvel Zombies to the Air Force to Midnight Sons, people are using it as a general categorization. "

That's precisely what I am looking at trying to fix. As I have said in other arguments before, one thing being messed up on this site is not a valid argument for why other things on this site should be messed up. I have no idea what "Midnight Sons" is but Marvel Zombies and Air Force are prime examples of other things that could be better suited as concepts rather than teams (i.e. other things to fix). Areas like this are problems and create organizational problems that reflect poorly on the site.

""Mutant" or "Gamma Rays" are good examples of concepts..."

I can't think of anything that proves my point better. The term "Mutant" is generally used by Marvel comics (so it will be the definition with which I use to address this claim) to describe the next step in human evolution: from Homo Sapien to Homo Superior. In this case "Mutant" would describe a different species. By the very definition you present from the submission guidelines Brood would be just as well suited to be a concept as Mutant. The same would hold true for Asgardians as the Asgardians, I believe, are another alien race. SHIELD, on the other hand, is an organization which would be be well suited to being classified as a Team.

#11 Posted by Buckshot (19356 posts) - - Show Bio

Been reading the posts and I agree with NiteFly.

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#12 Posted by Shatterstar (5120 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I find it kind of cool to be easily able to see who is a member of a race on the race's "team" page or individual character pages without having to read the whole thing, the team pages seem more interconnected with the rest of the vine than the concepts pages. Maybe there can be another category of race in addition to team. I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks, I might be the only person that thinks that way.

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#13 Posted by fesak (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

Been reading the posts and I agree with Shatterstar.

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#14 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44210 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda agree with both as they have each made valid points but as it stands I prefer the races labeled as teams allegiance or not.

#15 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"Personally I find it kind of cool to be easily able to see who is a member of a race on the race's "team" page or individual character pages without having to read the whole thing, the team pages seem more interconnected with the rest of the vine than the concepts pages. Maybe there can be another category of race in addition to team. I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks, I might be the only person that thinks that way."

I understand where you are coming from here, and agree that a new item with some sort of race distinction may be ideal, but I believe if you lump races in with teams you are sacrificing clarity and organization for some small amount of convenience.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, as per the submission guidelines races still qualify as concepts (with the example being mutant) rather than teams (with the definition being groups of characters that fight together).

#16 Posted by Vrakmul (23828 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with this idea.

#17 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"True. As I say, tomorrow I'll go through the DC one more thoroughly."

I did this. Not as thoroughly as possible, but a nice page nonetheless. Something to build on maybe. Then I come back to look at it and find all the pictures I put in of Qwardian/ Earth 3 Ultraman replaced with the Japanese guy again. None of his are even FROM a comic. My pics, gone. So the two pics I put in to show the difference, also gone. That really $%&£ed me off. A quick google off him (the absolute least you can do before editing surely) revealed that the guy is published by Dark Horse in the west.

http://www.darkhorse.com/search/search.php?sstring=ultraman&type=comic

I've PMed G-Man to see if he can fix it for me as I don't feel like re-editing it (even if I would get points for resubmitting the pictures).

Needed to get that off my chest. $%"%ing n00bs.

#18 Posted by fesak (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

NiteFly says:

"Shatterstar says:
"Personally I find it kind of cool to be easily able to see who is a member of a race on the race's "team" page or individual character pages without having to read the whole thing, the team pages seem more interconnected with the rest of the vine than the concepts pages. Maybe there can be another category of race in addition to team. I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks, I might be the only person that thinks that way."

I understand where you are coming from here, and agree that a new item with some sort of race distinction may be ideal, but I believe if you lump races in with teams you are sacrificing clarity and organization for some small amount of convenience.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, as per the submission guidelines races still qualify as concepts (with the example being mutant) rather than teams (with the definition being groups of characters that fight together)."

But the pages have stiil been approved by a mod.

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#19 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"NiteFly says:
"Shatterstar says:
"Personally I find it kind of cool to be easily able to see who is a member of a race on the race's "team" page or individual character pages without having to read the whole thing, the team pages seem more interconnected with the rest of the vine than the concepts pages. Maybe there can be another category of race in addition to team. I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks, I might be the only person that thinks that way."

I understand where you are coming from here, and agree that a new item with some sort of race distinction may be ideal, but I believe if you lump races in with teams you are sacrificing clarity and organization for some small amount of convenience.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, as per the submission guidelines races still qualify as concepts (with the example being mutant) rather than teams (with the definition being groups of characters that fight together)."

But the pages have stiil been approved by a mod."

I don't see your point. So have race pages as concepts. So have massive numbers of dupes. So have many others that have needed context switching. I believe that you and I have actually gone round with that exact point before. Saying that "just because the mods have approved it means that it must be right" is holding them to a standard where they cannot make mistakes, which is highly unfair to them.

Note that the mods also drafted up the submission guidelines which support (at this moment) making races concepts.

#20 Posted by Satyrquaze (4536 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been reading the posts and I agree with Satyrquaze.

#21 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Any mods care to weigh in? My biggest problem is consistency. I would prefer it one way over the other (I think that races being teams is sloppy and opens doors to much more sloppiness), but above all there should be a consistent and uniform standard.

#22 Posted by fesak (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

NiteFly says:

"fesak says:
"NiteFly says:
"Shatterstar says:
"Personally I find it kind of cool to be easily able to see who is a member of a race on the race's "team" page or individual character pages without having to read the whole thing, the team pages seem more interconnected with the rest of the vine than the concepts pages. Maybe there can be another category of race in addition to team. I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks, I might be the only person that thinks that way."

I understand where you are coming from here, and agree that a new item with some sort of race distinction may be ideal, but I believe if you lump races in with teams you are sacrificing clarity and organization for some small amount of convenience.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, as per the submission guidelines races still qualify as concepts (with the example being mutant) rather than teams (with the definition being groups of characters that fight together)."

But the pages have stiil been approved by a mod."

I don't see your point. So have race pages as concepts. So have massive numbers of dupes. So have many others that have needed context switching. I believe that you and I have actually gone round with that exact point before. Saying that "just because the mods have approved it means that it must be right" is holding them to a standard where they cannot make mistakes, which is highly unfair to them.

Note that the mods also drafted up the submission guidelines which support (at this moment) making races concepts."

Yeah, you have a point. Let's hear what the mods has to say.

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#23 Posted by NiteFly (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump?

#24 Posted by NodNolan (115 posts) - - Show Bio

 
This threads only four years old, but a search brought this thread up and its the most relevant....
 
I'm about to add a few bits and pieces of the Starborn (Boom! Studios) mythos and wanted to double check where The Hive, Witches of Arbor, the Pride and The Network should go. Effectively they are 'Races', My gut instinct was to add them as concepts, but checking as the first post says. Kryptonians and Brood are 'teams'. in an ideal world 'Race' would have a separate section in Comicvine but as I would guess if that was going to happen, it would have done by now. Where should I add the bits and pieces i'm going to add? Teams or Concepts?

#25 Posted by fesak (8477 posts) - - Show Bio
@NodNolan said:
 
This threads only four years old, but a search brought this thread up and its the most relevant....
 
I'm about to add a few bits and pieces of the Starborn (Boom! Studios) mythos and wanted to double check where The Hive, Witches of Arbor, the Pride and The Network should go. Effectively they are 'Races', My gut instinct was to add them as concepts, but checking as the first post says. Kryptonians and Brood are 'teams'. in an ideal world 'Race' would have a separate section in Comicvine but as I would guess if that was going to happen, it would have done by now. Where should I add the bits and pieces i'm going to add? Teams or Concepts?
Teams
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