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#1 Edited by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

As of Tuesday, September 24 (2013), we will now be able to add television shows and individual episodes to the wiki. This has been asked for time and again, and finally it is being implemented on the site.

In terms of rolling out the new additions though, there does need to be some ground rules for what gets added. Please consider the following points when adding a show (these points have been compiled from other discussions):

1. The main goal here is to expand the knowledge basis of what would be considered "comic book characters." As an example we are looking for the 1940s Superman serials, the 1960s Batman live action series or the early animated Spider Man. That is to say if a series featured a character from one of the Big Two then it is a safe bet that we want it. Please keep in mind that the entire TV series as a whole (not just a few episodes here and there) must be comic related to be added and by comic related we mean based on comic characters or be the source material for comics.

2. With the above in mind, it is important to also judge the merits of what we want to add and how much of it is core to characters that are not as well developed in comics. This is within the discretion of the editor, but consider how much of the character belongs to the other forms of media and how much belongs to comics. As a ground rule, if a character has less than 20 appearances in comics, and has more than that in television shows, the character is far more established in those shows and the show does not necessarily need to be added. This is not to say that these shows cannot be added, only that such shows with this discrepancy should be checked with a moderator first.

3. In light of the previous points, at the time being there should be no shows attached which feature primarily public domain characters, or shows which feature historical characters. Just like we don't add the movie Lincoln to the wiki because Abraham Lincoln has appeared in comics, we should not add such shows to the wiki. Again though, if you want to plead your case, I am sure a moderator will hear you out.

4. There has been a fair amount of interest in terms of comic book references in television shows. To be clear added shows should include a comic book character as a character in the show. Thus if characters in television shows cosplay (OC, Bones), discuss comics (Comic Book Guys), use comic design (Face Off, Heroes of Cosplay) or just generally focus on superheroes at random moments (Seinfeld) then it is not what we are after. However, as there has been a fair amount of interest in these television shows, there might be a concept created in the future dealing with the interaction of comics with television.

5. TV show exclusive characters, teams and locations can not be added to the wiki, the standard rule still applies so there must be at least one comic appearance before a page can be added.

6. Unlike for comics where every cover is different and thus characters can be added solely by an appearance on a cover, for television series only characters in the story itself should be included. As an example, there is a montage at the beginning of each Justice League Unlimited episode, and most of the characters contained in the montage do not appear in the story itself.

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#2 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

this is going to be a problem with the Blue Water comics

#4 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: Most Blue Water comics don't get past three or so issues though.

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#5 Posted by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

@razzatazz: but I can almost guarantee that someone is going to add every single tv episode that Betty White has appeared in just because of that one Betty White comic that Bluewater did

#6 Edited by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: That is the third point though (from the above). Betty White is a real person (though she plays fictitious characters) so there is no reason to add her.

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#7 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

Updated with #5

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#8 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

#1 & 5 updated.

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#9 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by jloneblackheart (5506 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds good to me. I kind of think tv and movie exclusive characters should get pages though. I'd be willing to debate it.

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#11 Edited by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

How does anime fit into this, considering the site allows for manga? Does this mean anime shows get pages, as well?

Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach already have pages.

PS: I love this, and I am going to have a field day with it!

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#12 Edited by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, what is the guideline for the main image? The series logo, a promo poster, DVD cover, etc?

Personally, I vote logo, simply because it makes it more distinguishable from other media on the site.

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#13 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

i would say DVD cover...so they're at least a consistent size...

#14 Edited by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio
@x35 said:

i would say DVD cover...so they're at least a consistent size...

Perhaps. I've only used a logo so far as a place holder until I was given word.

Though I notice a problem: the image is not on the page. At all. It only appears in the search box, not on the actual page.

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#15 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

what about individual episode pages... what should be their pics?

and what about avengers earths mightiest heroes...that began with like 20 micro epiasodeas that were kinda integral to the show

#16 Posted by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35 said:

what about individual episode pages... what should be their pics?

and what about avengers earths mightiest heroes...that began with like 20 micro epiasodeas that were kinda integral to the show

I don't know how it is anywhere else but those microepisodes were all collected into full length episodes on Netflix and included into the show's regular numbering

#17 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

also immediate thought...how do we differentiate between season...?

#18 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35 said:

what about individual episode pages... what should be their pics?

and what about avengers earths mightiest heroes...that began with like 20 micro epiasodeas that were kinda integral to the show

I don't know how it is anywhere else but those microepisodes were all collected into full length episodes on Netflix and included into the show's regular numbering

yeah...but out of order...like they had the first two episodes then like a bunch of comps of stuff that happened before it. the micro eps came first.

#19 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Anime is ok as long as it has a manga. A default series image can be a promo poster or logo, anything official or if available the first dvd cover. A series is just like a volume so the default image doesn't show on the page. Episodes images should be stills preferably of the episode title and not just random stills or repeated stills and they can't have watermarks.

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#20 Posted by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35 said:

@danhimself said:

@x35 said:

what about individual episode pages... what should be their pics?

and what about avengers earths mightiest heroes...that began with like 20 micro epiasodeas that were kinda integral to the show

I don't know how it is anywhere else but those microepisodes were all collected into full length episodes on Netflix and included into the show's regular numbering

yeah...but out of order...like they had the first two episodes then like a bunch of comps of stuff that happened before it. the micro eps came first.

doesn't look out of order to me....Breakout was the first full episode

#21 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: series numbering is the universal three digit standard, first digit being the season, for the Avengers micro episodes just use season zero for the numbering so they come before the regular seasons. Also episode numbering should be in air date order and not production order.

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#22 Posted by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Anime is ok as long as it has a manga. A default series image can be a promo poster or logo, anything official or if available the first dvd cover. A series is just like a volume so the default image doesn't show on the page. Episodes images should be stills preferably of the episode title and not just random stills or repeated stills and they can't have watermarks.

Okay. I'll stick with logos for now.

Should I use the series logo as a placeholder until I have the time to get appropriate images? I was going to use an image that relates to the episode (example: episode 1 of X-Men Evolution, where Nightcrawler arrives at the institute in a cloak) but perhaps that won't work.

@x35 said:

also immediate thought...how do we differentiate between season...?

I wondered that, too.

Should the episode title be something like S101, or is that too complicated?

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#23 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: ah, well the aired out of order at least... after breakout...which made zero sense.

#24 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: need to stick to the original order and numbering not something netflix did, it would be confusing to users that do not know netflix did that.

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#25 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: a temp placehold seems fine to me, check the post above yours for numbering.

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#26 Posted by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: a temp placehold seems fine to me, check the post above yours for numbering.

Okay, cool. I'll check back on what qualifies as an appropriate permanent image when I'm able to find images, or until somebody else does it. In the mean time, I'll change the defaults and keep adding episodes.

Okay.

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#27 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper: can you change the "volume" pic of x-men the animated series? (ideally to the cover art from season 1 but im expecting eventually these will all chanmge when the guidelines on that sorta thing become more defined/existent)

#28 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: handle it like default images for issues and volumes in the future though, if you have nothing to use it is best to hold off until you find something.

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#29 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: image guidelines are defined in the original article from Tony fifth paragraph, official images so stills and promo images, series images should be an official promo image or logo like with Agents of SHIELD or if available a dvd cover, episodes images can be an official placeholder like the logo of the show or a non-watermarked still from the episode, reusing the same image for each episode is probably a bad idea and your images from X-Men: TAS don't look very official. And where is the image you want to make the default season image?

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#30 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper: theyre the cover art from the dvds... and:

#31 Posted by danhimself (22443 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper: they do the same thing for the dvd's

#32 Posted by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: handle it like default images for issues and volumes in the future though, if you have nothing to use it is best to hold off until you find something.

Should I just not put anything there, or should I use the volume default image until I find something appropriate?

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#33 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: it may be the cover art but it isn't retail, it is just virgin art, ideally the image used should be from the show itself, a still, perfect example, a still of the title screen of the actual episode, he may be semi new to the wiki but he did great. As Tony said keep in mind how things look in the episode ribbon and the grid, it looks horrible to have the same image over and over, even worse to have all kinds of oddly sized images all mismatched, just do your best to make it look good, the kind of thing that new visitors of the site will look at and think looks nice so they want to stay.

Also when I say DVD cover this is what I'm thinking about for a series default, just like with issues and movies it should look like what you would see in a store and in the case of an episode what you can actually see in the episode not a mish-mashed gallery.

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#34 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: well since you already started it just go with a placeholder, I loathe seeing the blond default.

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#35 Posted by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: well since you already started it just go with a placeholder, I loathe seeing the blond default.

That's why. It just looks really bad with that default image. I figured the logo was better than nothing at all.

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#36 Posted by Renchamp (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

My two cents: Air dates are solid. If anything needs to be reordered for continuity then include a note on the plot summary of the episode or put the viewing order on the series page where the series description goes.

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#37 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

jesus christ, pika, just get over your god complex already. i'm just using what was my best judgement. sorry if it's not as pristine and perfect as yours always infallibly is. i add to this site because i want to, not to impress you. look at all those other stubs people have added and they've done absolutely nothing to them but stake a claim for their pages. i've sat down to actually do an entire series and all you can do is shit on what i do. again. i'm not even saying what i've chosen is right or perfect, but for something that's barely coherent and consistent, it's better than the blank pages people have instantly added so why dont you go and call them out on the forums for "doing it wrong" just because they beat you to to the punch.

#38 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: what god complex? you asked I explained, I'm sorry that I had higher expectations from you, you are a good editor and I was not expecting this to be hard to grasp for someone as experienced as you are, I expect mistakes from new people because they don't know the wiki but I expect better from you, my bad.

Beat me to the punch? In case you haven't noticed I haven't added any shows at all and have no plans to for at least a couple days, I have other things to do and I want the rest of the community to have fun with this virgin territory.

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#39 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

yep... you certainly think I'm good editor what with you been the first, and only, to immediately jump down my throat because you don't like some placeholding images. just like the other week when you jumped at the chance to complain about me "poaching" an issue or when I upload a trade before you because I have it in my hands. Thanks for the support, you've consistently made it clear you do things "better" and anything I do will always be wrong.

#40 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@x35: well since it looks like I might be the only wiki mod online right now of course nobody else has said anything. The quality of your editing has nothing to do with poaching or adding something before me, I expect editors that have worked as hard as you have to keep consistently high standards and not even 100% of the time everybody makes mistakes but consistency is important especially for these new pages as that is what new and old users are judging this site by, nobody wants new visitors to show up and see anything but the best we can do or they might not stay. Every editor over 100k should be setting a good example for other editors and feel pride in their hard work and how it represents the site.

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#41 Edited by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

Great first day everybody !!! I have one message though, for the time being please work on one show at a time instead of adding a bunch of empty series, this gives more users in the community a chance to contribute to the new section and add their favorite shows as well. Just for this week, keeps things fair for everyone especially users still in moderation.

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#42 Edited by Saren (25559 posts) - - Show Bio

Would be neater if there were some way to separate the seasons on the volume page.

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#43 Edited by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper:

@jedixman: well since you already started it just go with a placeholder, I loathe seeing the blond default.

funny how you're not jumping down jedixman's throat and are instead suggesting the exact same thing you're chewing my head off for.

#45 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

Great first day everybody !!! I have one message though, for the time being please work on one show at a time instead of adding a bunch of empty series, this gives more users in the community a chance to contribute to the new section and add their favorite shows as well. Just for this week, keeps things fair for everyone especially users still in moderation.

Just to clarify pika's statement, feel free to edit the wiki however you like. As this is the rollout for the new feature try to be respectful of others that might want a chance to work on their favourite shows by not posting empty shows without episodes, but if that is all that you have time for, then use your own discretion.

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#46 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

Just as a point to note, consider the era in which the series is based. For the 1970s Wonder Woman series, there is an alternate version of Wonder Girl, but this should be the Donna Troy Wonder Girl as Cassie Sandsmark had not been created yet. Equally, Super Friends will use Dick Grayson as Robin, not other Robins (even if Robin is never referred to as Dick in the series).

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#47 Edited by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper: @razzatazz:

... I forgot to post my commet -_- Sorry if there was an empty comment in your notification box.

What do we do when there are conflicting sources regarding episode orders?

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#48 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Can you provide an example? Probably best though to go with real time chronology on it in determining which goes where in order.

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#49 Posted by JediXMan (30188 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Can you provide an example? Probably best though to go with real time chronology on it in determining which goes where in order.

...

Weird. I could have sworn there was a conflict; I thought I knew the order, but I had to verify with IMDB for the listing. But it was conflicting with TV.com's list... but now it doesn't now.

Sorry to bother you. My mistake.

PS: For the record, I'm only looking at official sources, like IMDB (well, not necessarily "official," but it's the closest thing). I'm not using other Wikia pages - I never do that.

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#50 Posted by pikahyper (11774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: every series has two orders the air date order and production order, episodes are not always aired in the order they were made, this isn't as common now but it used to be, this can cause some confusion as often times dvd releases will use the production order to be more historically accurate so the air date order should be used but if possible a note should probably be added in the series description or individual episode descriptions about the different orders.

If you are not sure if a site is using the air date order and two sites are conflicting go to a third site and whichever is most used go with that one :)

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