#1 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio

I created and uploaded the IDW TMNT ashcan issue (free at SDCC 2011) here:
http://www.comicvine.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-sdcc-ashcan/49-41518/
 
The volume name was later renamed from just TMNT (as the indicia says) to include 'ashcan' in the volume name. I don't know where that rename came from.
 
The TMNT #1 issue is now uploaded at:
http://www.comicvine.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/49-42285/
 
The ashcan and #1 issue are the same thing - the same content and pages. The ashcan is just a issue #1 preview, only has half the story/page count as the #1 in an unfinished condition. I think the two issues should be in the same volume since it's the same comic's content. The volume name in the indices are the same thing, same creators, same pages, etc.
 
Any chance we can merge these volumes into 1 volume for ease of use/searching? 
 
Thanks,

#2 Edited by Digifiend (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Ashcan basically means free trial. Using it in the volume name is actually AGAINST Comic Vine policy as yes, it doesn't match the indicia. If the ashcan has half the pages of the #1, then it's not the same comic and should remain separate. 
 
I actually recently added what would probably be considered an ashcan: The Dandy Special Edition. It compiled strips from recent issues of The Dandy (mostly the issue out that week, with others added to replace adverts and the next issue page - notably, the long running comic had a major revamp a few months earlier), and was given free with a newspaper. It has no indicia (normal for Britain, where "© publisher, year" is usually all they use) so the name came from the cover, which says Special Edition on it above the logo. It doesn't have an issue number, so if it had been put in the main Dandy volume, it would've ended up being an issue 0, which is the wrong place for it.

#3 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not saying that the comic issues should be merged. I'm only saying the 2 comics (ashcan and #1) should be in the same volume, since both are the same volume in name, year, publisher, creators, characters, stories, etc.

#4 Edited by pikahyper (12406 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly see zero reason to merge the volumes.

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#5 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio
@pikahyper said:
I honestly see zero reason to merge the volumes.
Really? Why not? It's two issues from the same publisher, volume name, and year. The ashcan just happened to be released before #1, just like issue #0 or a preview issue and both #0s and preview issues are contained within other volumes on CV.
#6 Posted by jloneblackheart (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

The title for the ashcan was actually the indicia. Why would you doubt me?

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#7 Posted by pikahyper (12406 posts) - - Show Bio

Ashcan's are primarily promotional material and most of the time are given away free or sold only at conventions, lumping them into the regular volume that the general public has access to just doesn't seem like the thing to do and as jlone just proved it does indeed belong in its own volume, I probably should have checked the indicia myself since I also have the ashcan :P

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#8 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio

I know what an ashcan issue is and it's historical/real purpose - before they became marketing tools. 
 
The indicia for #1 says "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 August 2011." The "SDCC Ashcan" words should be the issue number. It's the same format as the indica in the regular issue, just "SDCC Ashcan" is used instead of "#1" the rest of the format is the same.

#9 Posted by pikahyper (12406 posts) - - Show Bio
@jamesewelch said:
The indicia for #1 says "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 August 2011." The "SDCC Ashcan" words should be the issue number. It's the same format as the indica in the regular issue, just "SDCC Ashcan" is used instead of "#1" the rest of the format is the same.
Sorry but I don't see that as a logical progression, just because normally the issue number comes after the title doesn't mean SDCC Ashcan automatically replaces it just because it is at the end, the issue number was dropped because it was a limited printing one shot where no #2 will ever come out, SDCC Ashcan is part of the actual title, if there was a comma before SDCC Ashcan then ok maybe I might accept that but it has no deliminator so it is all one title.
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#10 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio
@pikahyper: So you're saying all issues that don't have a number following the title in the indica should be in separate volumes using the "title name + non-numeric issue number/name" as the volume name? I'm not sure that's how the majority of CV wiki works nor falls under the guidelines of making it easy to find issues within the wiki.
#11 Posted by pikahyper (12406 posts) - - Show Bio
@jamesewelch: You need to post examples (links) if you don't think that is how things are set up already, the only places I ever see that happen are with trades and users are working on splitting them up. The guideline for adding new issues shows clearly that we go by the indicia, the only time we don't always follow it these days is if the title of a volume changes after only a couple of issues in which case we use the title that it was the longest, prime example being all the Ultimate Comics that actually had that as part of the indicia for the first issue or two and then dropped it in favor of the short form title. 
 
Also it isn't about making things easy to find, it is about keeping things historically accurate as per the indicia, this is not something I believe personally all the time but that is the way it is here and I have had to adapt to it just like everyone else.
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#12 Edited by Digifiend (583 posts) - - Show Bio
@pikahyper: Yeah, Beano and Dandy are examples of that too, both had the word Comic at the end of their names until 1950 (of course, these titles go by cover due to complete lack of indicia) but unlike at least one other site, they're not counted as separate volumes. Also, comic mergers are disregarded for the same reason i.e. Dandy and Nutty is part of the main Dandy volume instead of separate. An exception being Beezer and Topper, which restarted the numbering when they merged.
#13 Posted by jamesewelch (616 posts) - - Show Bio
@pikahyper said:
The guideline for adding new issues shows clearly that we go by the indicia, the only time we don't always follow it these days is if the title of a volume changes after only a couple of issues in which case we use the title that it was the longest, prime example being all the Ultimate Comics that actually had that as part of the indicia for the first issue or two and then dropped it in favor of the short form title.  Also it isn't about making things easy to find, it is about keeping things historically accurate as per the indicia
I think you are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph. You can't be historically accurate and deviate from the volume name as in your examples above for Ultimate Comics (and others). The reason why CV doesn't split the series into multiple volumes (like other sites - GCD, etc.) is for ease of use with being as accurate as possible. 
 
CV isn't a historical archive nor always factually accurate. A few months ago, there was a controversy with the Admins adding Captain America to every issue that Bucky was in (when Bucky was Cap), even if Steve Rogers wasn't in that issue, just so the characters would say Captain America to optimize the site for search engines. That led to confusion because it meant Steve Rogers was listed as being in that issue, but he wasn't just the mantle of Captain America, which lead to the Admins/Dev stepping in and deciding to create a new thing for mantles. CV is also not historically accurate due to wiki bugs (like not being able to select more than one creator role per creator) which led to thousands (if not more) creators losing credit for thousands (probably more) issues. I don't even know if that bug has been fixed yet or not, but it's been around for a really long time now.
#14 Posted by pikahyper (12406 posts) - - Show Bio
@jamesewelch: Well now I'm just taking it like you want to fight it out, two of the highest contributors on this site already told you it won't be merged and we told you why so I am out.
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#15 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6206 posts) - - Show Bio

@Digifiend said:

Ashcan basically means free trial. Using it in the volume name is actually AGAINST Comic Vine policy as yes, it doesn't match the indicia. If the ashcan has half the pages of the #1, then it's not the same comic and should remain separate.

I actually recently added what would probably be considered an ashcan: The Dandy Special Edition. It compiled strips from recent issues of The Dandy (mostly the issue out that week, with others added to replace adverts and the next issue page - notably, the long running comic had a major revamp a few months earlier), and was given free with a newspaper. It has no indicia (normal for Britain, where "© publisher, year" is usually all they use) so the name came from the cover, which says Special Edition on it above the logo. It doesn't have an issue number, so if it had been put in the main Dandy volume, it would've ended up being an issue 0, which is the wrong place for it.

There are actual "ashcan" titles, Killer Instint Ashcan was titled just that, I think you are being a bit of a rules nazi and ignoring the spirit of how titles flux from one volume to the next, after all ashcan is also used with titling mini-comics that are a preview to an ongoing volume and in themselves a seperate story/volume, though CV has adopted some rules that piss off all but the jerkiest of users....