Dick's relationship with Bruce in the New 52.(spoilers)

I love the interaction between Bruce and Dick in the New 52. The care they have for one another is awesome. Not that it wasn't there before(the New 52)but I just love the way Scott Snyder and Kyle Higgins have handled it. I loved the end of Batman #11 where Bruce tells Dick that Bruce didn't save Dick from the darkness when he took him in but rather Dick saved Bruce from the darkness. Great ending. What do you peeps think?

I think Dick should've been made the leader Bruce never could be. We got hints of it when Dick was made Batman.

I love their conversation at the end of Night of Owls

Can a mod please post this in the Dick Grayson forum I tried to and i'm not sure how it got here. I am sorry for the mess up and thank you.

Beautiful words my friend. The finale of Owls gave me goosebumps. I enjoy their little moments

In my opinion the dialogue between Bruce and Dick was the best bit of the issue.

I get the impression that they have a more 'father-son' relationship than Bruce and Damian do, they disagree on things but ultimately they are very alike and the bond is very clear to see in the latest issue.

@SmoothJammin said:

Beautiful words my friend. The finale of Owls gave me goosebumps. I enjoy their little moments

Thanks bud. I love the writing of Higgins & Snyder. The New 52 has been good to Dick Grayson thus far.

^^^^^^^^ Would you guys say it's father son, or something grander? To be real I felt like it leaned towards two siblings bonding. A young pup and his much older brother, exchanging their experiences and discussing what the city really means. I mean you're more liable to try and get back at your brother for clocking you in the jaw than you are you're own kin. Food for thought

@richardjohngrayson: @LuigiBat:

@SmoothJammin said:

^^^^^^^^ Would you guys say it's father son, or something grander? To be real I felt like it leaned towards two siblings bonding. A young pup and his much older brother, exchanging their experiences and discussing what the city really means. I mean you're more liable to try and get back at your brother for clocking you in the jaw than you are you're own kin. Food for thought

@richardjohngrayson: @LuigiBat:

I see that. Dick was taken in by Bruce at 16(in the New 52) so Bruce probably only has 14 years on Dick (in the New 52.)

I love the portrayal of his bond with Dick. Its so sharply related to the original idea that Robin is meant to keep Batman from going over the edge.

I love their conversation at the end of Night of Owls

@richardjohngrayson:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Bruce meant to be 33-35 in the New 52?

If Dick was taken in at 16 then he must be 21 now (due to the '5 years ago' flashback in one of the early issues of Nightwing), which would prove you right in saying that there's 14 years between them. However in saying that I'd say Dick looks 13 at most in the aforementioned flashback (haven't found anywhere that states for a fact that he was 16 when taken in by Bruce, although I'm not dismissing it as untrue) which would make him 18 at present (hooray for messed up New 52 timelines!).

@SmoothJammin

I really can see where you're coming from with the sibling thing, but it's not really something that I personally believe in.

For me the relationship between Bruce and Dick has always been a father-son relationship, regardless of how old they are. I think Bruce has always seen Dick as his heir, hence why he's been (over)protective of him in certain instances e.g. Choosing Azrael to be his successor during Nightfall and banning Dick from being Robin after the Two-Face incident. They've disagreed on things and Dick always tries to get out of Bruce's shadow or insists he's different to Bruce, but all things considered they're more alike than either of them would want to admit. For me the way Dick constantly tries to get out of Bruce's shadow is akin to a son trying to get out of his father's shadow.

@LuigiBat said:

@richardjohngrayson:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Bruce meant to be 33-35 in the New 52?

If Dick was taken in at 16 then he must be 21 now (due to the '5 years ago' flashback in one of the early issues of Nightwing), which would prove you right in saying that there's 14 years between them. However in saying that I'd say Dick looks 13 at most in the aforementioned flashback (haven't found anywhere that states for a fact that he was 16 when taken in by Bruce, although I'm not dismissing it as untrue) which would make him 18 at present (hooray for messed up New 52 timelines!).

@SmoothJammin

I really can see where you're coming from with the sibling thing, but it's not really something that I personally believe in.

For me the relationship between Bruce and Dick has always been a father-son relationship, regardless of how old they are. I think Bruce has always seen Dick as his heir, hence why he's been (over)protective of him in certain instances e.g. Choosing Azrael to be his successor during Nightfall and banning Dick from being Robin after the Two-Face incident. They've disagreed on things and Dick always tries to get out of Bruce's shadow or insists he's different to Bruce, but all things considered they're more alike than either of them would want to admit. For me the way Dick constantly tries to get out of Bruce's shadow is akin to a son trying to get out of his father's shadow.

I asked Kyle Higgins on twitter at the start of the New 52 how old Dick was when Bruce took him in he said 16. It has also since been said by Kyle that Dick is 21ish in the New 52.

Don't see it as Father-Son necessarily, no.

@ReVamp said:

Don't see it as Father-Son necessarily, no.

Neither do I. It's more mentor-protege, than father-son.

@TheAnnihilator: agreed. That bond can be very fatherly but it is a different kind of love/respect.

@richardjohngrayson: My thoughts exactly. Well said.

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp said:

Don't see it as Father-Son necessarily, no.

Neither do I. It's more mentor-protege, than father-son.

Well, its that obviously, but I was speaking within familial terms. I'd say its more of a MUCH elder brother and a much younger brother than a father-son. I benefit from having this type of relationship in my family, so I can take from my personal life and apply it to the context. The reason is, Bruce isn't really old enough to be his father (that's more of Alfred's thing as h'es the nurturer), but he does have some "fatherly" aspects in his relationship with Dick which is often seen within these types of relationships.

@ReVamp said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp said:

Don't see it as Father-Son necessarily, no.

Neither do I. It's more mentor-protege, than father-son.

Well, its that obviously, but I was speaking within familial terms. I'd say its more of a MUCH elder brother and a much younger brother than a father-son. I benefit from having this type of relationship in my family, so I can take from my personal life and apply it to the context. The reason is, Bruce isn't really old enough to be his father (that's more of Alfred's thing as h'es the nurturer), but he does have some "fatherly" aspects in his relationship with Dick which is often seen within these types of relationships.

What came to mind for me was an uncle-nephew relationship, but the much older brother does work too. However, much older siblings can go either way. I'm not very close with mine and my friend rarely even speaks to his.

@TheAnnihilator said:

What came to mind for me was an uncle-nephew relationship, but the much older brother does work too. However, much older siblings can go either way. I'm not very close with mine and my friend rarely even speaks to his.

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess I can only go from firsthand experience.

Different writers will interpret their relationship as father-son, or older brother-younger brother. He's not a kid anymore, obviously, so its gratifying to watch them act as equals albeit an age differential. I know Bruce loves him but in DCnu he was probably like that surrogate guardian who adopted a kid and instead of learning to be a father to them, acted on a cool brotherly level.

I can definitely see the brother relationship though I've always assumed a father-son one .

I say older brother younger brother relationship Bruce is only in his mid or early thirties and Dick is in his early twenties

I see it as a cross between older/youger borther and father/son BUT I didn't really start this to ask what you thought it was from a family stand point. I started it to ask what you think of it thus far in the New 52. What did you think of Bruce: having him pose as Joker, punching Dick in the face, telling Dick he saved him from the darkness etc... I had a deeper meaning and we kind of went of the rails. Sorry for not narrowing that down more. I just wanted to know how you feel about the relationship thus far.

@richardjohngrayson:

Oh I'm sorry, well I'm really loving the interaction between Bruce and Dick so fare and I can't wait too see more of Bruce interacting with the Batfamily, although I gotta say my favorite interaction withe Bruce so fare is with Batgirl, and I really hope we see a Bruce and Jason moment but that's another topic for another bored

@The Stegman said:

I love their conversation at the end of Night of Owls

Me too.

@richardjohngrayson said:

I see it as a cross between older/youger borther and father/son BUT I didn't really start this to ask what you thought it was from a family stand point. I started it to ask what you think of it thus far in the New 52. What did you think of Bruce: having him pose as Joker, punching Dick in the face, telling Dick he saved him from the darkness etc... I had a deeper meaning and we kind of went of the rails. Sorry for not narrowing that down more. I just wanted to know how you feel about the relationship thus far.

I'd say at times Bruce sort of uses him as another tool in his fight against crime, hence making him pose as Joker and stay in Arkham for a few days. The punch in the face can be viewed in two ways, 1) He did it because Dick was getting on his nerves, 2) He did it to remove that weird 'Court of Owls' tooth that all the Talons and future Talons were given. Personally I'd say it was a combo of both those options. Bruce knew he'd have to remove that thing from Dick's mouth but equally Dick was pissing him off at the time, punching Dick allowed him to both relieve his stress and get that tooth thing out.

The scene at the end of Batman 11 is kind of similar to the origins of Tim Drake in a way, or slightly reminiscent of it at least, as Bruce is acknowledging that Batman needs to have a Robin in order to keep from killing (or going into 'darkness'). So in this sense Dick saved Bruce when he became Robin.

@LuigiBat said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

I see it as a cross between older/youger borther and father/son BUT I didn't really start this to ask what you thought it was from a family stand point. I started it to ask what you think of it thus far in the New 52. What did you think of Bruce: having him pose as Joker, punching Dick in the face, telling Dick he saved him from the darkness etc... I had a deeper meaning and we kind of went of the rails. Sorry for not narrowing that down more. I just wanted to know how you feel about the relationship thus far.

I'd say at times Bruce sort of uses him as another tool in his fight against crime, hence making him pose as Joker and stay in Arkham for a few days. The punch in the face can be viewed in two ways, 1) He did it because Dick was getting on his nerves, 2) He did it to remove that weird 'Court of Owls' tooth that all the Talons and future Talons were given. Personally I'd say it was a combo of both those options. Bruce knew he'd have to remove that thing from Dick's mouth but equally Dick was pissing him off at the time, punching Dick allowed him to both relieve his stress and get that tooth thing out.

The scene at the end of Batman 11 is kind of similar to the origins of Tim Drake in a way, or slightly reminiscent of it at least, as Bruce is acknowledging that Batman needs to have a Robin in order to keep from killing (or going into 'darkness'). So in this sense Dick saved Bruce when he became Robin.

Batman needs a Robin for sure but to say it is similar to the origin of Tim Drake is cheapening to Dick who as said in Batman #11 is why Bruce stayed out of the darkness. I just think it was Dick Grayson he was speaking of not Robin (Jason/ Tim) or any one else for that matter. I think he saw himself in a young optimistic orphan. Bruce saw a way to fix in Dick's life what he never could in his.

@richardjohngrayson said:

@LuigiBat said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

I see it as a cross between older/youger borther and father/son BUT I didn't really start this to ask what you thought it was from a family stand point. I started it to ask what you think of it thus far in the New 52. What did you think of Bruce: having him pose as Joker, punching Dick in the face, telling Dick he saved him from the darkness etc... I had a deeper meaning and we kind of went of the rails. Sorry for not narrowing that down more. I just wanted to know how you feel about the relationship thus far.

I'd say at times Bruce sort of uses him as another tool in his fight against crime, hence making him pose as Joker and stay in Arkham for a few days. The punch in the face can be viewed in two ways, 1) He did it because Dick was getting on his nerves, 2) He did it to remove that weird 'Court of Owls' tooth that all the Talons and future Talons were given. Personally I'd say it was a combo of both those options. Bruce knew he'd have to remove that thing from Dick's mouth but equally Dick was pissing him off at the time, punching Dick allowed him to both relieve his stress and get that tooth thing out.

The scene at the end of Batman 11 is kind of similar to the origins of Tim Drake in a way, or slightly reminiscent of it at least, as Bruce is acknowledging that Batman needs to have a Robin in order to keep from killing (or going into 'darkness'). So in this sense Dick saved Bruce when he became Robin.

Batman needs a Robin for sure but to say it is similar to the origin of Tim Drake is cheapening to Dick who as said in Batman #11 is why Bruce stayed out of the darkness. I just think it was Dick Grayson he was speaking of not Robin (Jason/ Tim) or any one else for that matter. I think he saw himself in a young optimistic orphan. Bruce saw a way to fix in Dick's life what he never could in his.

I didn't mean that its almost a like for like to the origin of Tim Drake, rather that it seemed a little familiar and had similar connotations.

I suppose at that point in his life Bruce might have been becoming a bit disconnected from the world and his motives, seeing Dick lose his parents might have served to re-galvanise him and his 'rescuing' Dick could've been a way of (as you said) fixing in Dick's life what couldn't be fixed in his. Bruce adopting Dick to 'rescue' him has two sides to it, he adopts him to help him recover from the loss of his parents (which he can relate to) but also as a means of healing his own wounds from having lost his childhood. I guess Bruce wants to help Dick in a manner that he wished he'd been helped after losing his parents, in doing so he's basically able to fend of his own personal regrets and demons. I also think that Dick's more upbeat personality will have helped Bruce. Dick's always been motivated by his parent's deaths but never totally consumed by it, subsequently it's possible that Dick's optimism allowed Bruce to not become so isolated and obsessed about the death of his parents.

@LuigiBat well said, bro.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7gsh0b0oV1rzjc0oo1_1280.png

anyone see TDKR??

@richardjohngrayson said:

I see it as a cross between older/youger borther and father/son BUT I didn't really start this to ask what you thought it was from a family stand point. I started it to ask what you think of it thus far in the New 52. What did you think of Bruce: having him pose as Joker, punching Dick in the face, telling Dick he saved him from the darkness etc... I had a deeper meaning and we kind of went of the rails. Sorry for not narrowing that down more. I just wanted to know how you feel about the relationship thus far.

Just gonna give my 2 cents first. I've always seen the relationship as a father/son one, with Dick being Bruce's heir and I still see it that way even now. However, with the ages changed I can definitely see where that Elder Brother/Younger Brother idea is view is coming into play.

Posing as the Joker is a new element that for me, reinforces Bruce's trust in Dick. By doing that he's acknowledging Dick's skills. Saying how much he trusts Dick to be able to handle it, and that Dick is the only one he can trust with something like that. All play's back into Dick's role as Bruce's heir. With that position comes some responsibility that Dick has to live up to.

The punch...was unnecessary. I think that's clear. Bruce was on edge at the time, Dick was yelling at him, and so he punched Dick. He could've just as easily explained the situation to Dick and removed it some other way.

Dick is the one who saved Bruce from his darkness. So really i'm happy to see Bruce come right out and say it. It's been touched upon in previous incarnations of the relationship (Bruce explaining how much he missed Dick when he left, Tim saying Dick was who Bruce needed by his side after Jason's death, etc.) but never stated so bluntly I think. Its refreshing, to see Bruce being so open about how he feels about Dick and the impact he's had on his life. I think the writers are doing a good job of avoiding most of the Post-Crisis angst and keeping the pair where they were Pre-Flashpoint.

I have always seen Bruce and Dick's relationship as father/son.

Thinking away from the New 52, which is dangerous I grant you, but Dick reluctantly picked up the cowl. He was afraid of stepping into Bruce's shoes but realistically knew he was the only one who should have done it. They have not always gotten along and Dick was desperate to escape his shadow for years - much like a rebellious son who wanted to make his own way in the world. Plus, in one issue I am pretty sure Bruce does adopt him.

@richardjohngrayson: @richardjohngrayson: There is oonly a 10 ylear difference Bruce was stated in the Batman Annual to only be about 30 or 31, he has been Batman for 6 years

I don't understand what you are trying to tell me? If you mean they are closer in age to brothers, than father and son in the new 52..I agree.

Im just informing you of Bruce's age

The change in age had to happen honestly, as that was the entire point of the reboot. Writers didn't feel that reader could connect with the characters as they were...idiots. I feel it's definitely changed the relationship between Bruce and Dick, but hasn't added to either character separately.

@nathaniel_christopher: Honestly Bruce was like 40 in the old 52, and now he's 9 years younger, that would make him a less experienced Batman, if they wanted a more raw Batman, they might of well had just erased Jason Todd, Tim and everyone after Grayson and start fresh.

I think the relationship has changed for the worse with the new 52 *Shrug*

Dick is probably my favorite Robin, with Damian being a very close second it. One thing I wish we could have saw more of, especially when the New 52 launched, was Dick's time as Robin alongside Batman.

They're relationship is like partners and very close friends in the New 52 IMO, while they act like a family I didn't feel any Father-Son vibe from them.

The age change would've happened regardless of if they kept the Robins around or not, just like if he'd been married that would've been erased as well. That's the entire point of winding the clock back.

Well its hard to say in the new 52 they are only 10 years apart and Dick was only Robin for 2 years so a father and son relationship dosnt make sense and i guess i have to disagee with a lot of people here becuase Bruce saying to Dick it was him who saved Bruce from the darkness brings up that stupid batman needs a robin BS that makes Batman look like a wackjob

They are closer to mentor and disciple. Dick was already a young man when Bruce took him in, he simply watched over him from there on out and shared his vision with him.

@smoothjammin said:

The Latest Batman and Robin issue shows more of a Father/Son thing still.

@jayaaerow: I'll have to snatch this up then. Good looking out potnuh

Something I hate about the New 52 is that they erased all of Dick's history. He no longer is the one that grew up most of his life in Batman's care. He no longer is the one who founded the Titans. He no longer has a history of the leader everyone looked to. As the heart of the DCU. Nope. He's just... there now. He still has his skills and personality but none of the substance. It kills me.

imma give my opinion about the relationship of the robins correlating to Bruce in the new 52. Grayson = Little Brother Brother Todd = adopted Son Drake = partner Damien = biological son

@hushofthewind said:

I kind of hate this post. Todd is an adopted son and Tim is just a partner? Really?

Ugh.