The Truth of DC Comics New 52

My fellow DC fans I have discovered the TRUTH!!!!!!!!

Every single change, every single revision of a character whether they needed it or not, it's all been one big conspiracy It was to make sure no one new to comics EVER learns of the old universe. It's to make sure that there's no big back lash from the new fans so they won't have to undo the New 52!!!!! It's not to make the characters "modern" or "accessible" it's all a ruse to lure people in and make old fans look like idiots who can't "get with the times"

They're taking advantage of new readers by pushing out mediocre story arcs, outdated 90's ideas, and writing characters the way THEY want to regardless of how they SHOULD normally act!!!!

SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!!! PEOPLE MUST BE TOLD!!!!!!!!!!

Great balls...he's right!

Are you by any chance the opposite of sober right now???

@arturocalakayvee said:

I have never been more sober!!!! Can you not see DC has been lying to us?!

Dude doesn't drink, brah.

how do they even try to say that this continuity is an improvement??? At least prior to Flashpoint we actually knew what happened so that we could tell new readers what they should check out to get into DC comics...now? Did No Man's Land happen? I have no idea. What about Death of Superman? Well...maybe? he died but who knows how and what happened after. Blackest Night? Yes but with all the characters that played major roles in that arc that no longer exist we really have no idea how it played out

@danhimself: I hope Death of Superman didnt happen in this continuity, that whole story was pretty bad.

I'm a new reader and it didnt even take a month to figure out pre-new 52 was better. What I find so irritating is that new 52 is far more confusing to me than pre-new 52. How is that even possible? Biggest mistake a new reader can make is to read anything for prior to 2011because then you realize why longtime fans are right to be angry. Then you too end up feeling let down.

@juliedc said:

I have to recommend something to you. It's a graphic novel called DC: The New Frontier. The series was influenced by works such as Kingdom Come, The Golden Age, Watchmen, and The Dark Knight Returns. Much like The Golden Age, New Frontier takes place primarily in the 1950s, and depicts the Golden Age versions of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman meeting Silver Age versions of characters such as The Flash(Barry Allen), Green Lantern(Hal Jordan), and Martian Manhunter. The story bridges the gap from the end of the Golden Age to the beginning of the Silver Age in the DC Universe. It's actually my favorite comic. Here's a little something that shows just how great DC has been in the past. An excerpt from the animated film based on The New Frontier

This comic shows how great DC was and still can be, provided they forget attempting to copy Marvel. Now I love Marvel as well, but what works for Marvel doesn't work for DC. And that's okay, because wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same?

@danhimself: The continuity problems are even more obvious in Justice League. Throughout the 5 years this new DC universe is supposed to have existed Hal Jordan has died and come back, Superman has died(Apparently not killed by Doomsday) and come back, and Batman has died and come back. All within the span of FIVE YEARS. Also let's not forget Bruce has gone through four Robin's in that short amount of time which also gives Dick and Tim barely ANY time as Robin(Jason and Damien are understandable in their short times)

However back to the death thing. Hal was not replaced by Kyle, Guy, or John on the League(Odd considering at LEAST one of them should have been a Lantern then, but chalk that up to skewed continuity once again). Also Dick did not replace Bruce on the team either. Cyborg made no emotional headway in the trauma of his origin story. Only one member joined the league, Martian Manhunter, and that turned out horrible for some reason. I may not be the biggest fan of MM(Personally I prefer Miss Martian because I feel she has a more interesting backstory and character), but I do concede he was and should be a major presence in the League since he was a founding member!

The Justice League was fine for 5 years but now all of a sudden it's pure chaos? Extremely odd no?

@smart_dork_dude: I blame it all on laziness.....when I got into comics it was hard to figure things out...we didn't have awesome internet sites like the Vine to help us out...we didn't have every arc being reprinted in trades...we had to hunt down back issues just by hoping that we stumbled upon a comic book shop or convention or yard sale that had it....now a days the new readers have the Vine for back stories and other users helping them out...they have trades, compendiums, ultimate editions, and omnibuses, and sites like Amazon and Ebay to help hunt books down....but new readers are lazy and constantly cried about how hard it was to get into comics because of the continuity so DC rebooted and we (the old readers) lost...major fail

@danhimself: Exactly. I have went on record as saying DC could use a reboot, even BEFORE the New 52 happened. However the reboot I had in mind was far more tame. Just get rid of story lines that did not work. Amazon's Attack? Get rid of it. Countdown? Gone. Cry for Justice? What's that? Just get rid of all the BAD story arcs and events that caused the DCU to become what it was before the reboot, but still keeping the majority of the characters histories, personalities, supporting characters, etc, intact. Really that would have been far more simpler and new reader friendly than just nuking the universe and confusing everyone with did this happen, when did this happen, what's going on here, etc.

@smart_dork_dude: I would have rather had that but if they were going to do a hardcore reboot then they should have done a hardcore reboot and started completely at the beginning...no 5 year gap...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman...it's all their first day on the job...no Robins, Superboys or Girls, no Wonder Girls...no confusing past at all....I would have also looked at the Young Justice universe as a template...they did it right

I blame Obama

The President has just released a press release in response to this accusation.

"It's Bush's fault." The typical response.

@danhimself: I feel exactly the same way about Young Justice. Really I was saddened a lot more by YJ's cancellation than most because it showed me a DC universe that I was sorely missing and still am. It felt very familiar and looked familiar, but at the same time I had no idea where they were going with it. Roy Harper being cloned with the clone being the heroic Red Arrow and father to Lian Harper while the original Roy becomes the brooding and violent Arsenal? That was a stroke of genius and FAR better than what happened in Rise of Arsenal. Artemis Crock being a hero instead of a villain and dealing with her supervillain family, another great idea. I'm a Teen Titans fan, they're my second favorite team right next to the JSA(Speaking of I am so glad they added the JSA in the show's history), so I love how they perfectly merged the original Titans, Young Justice, and Johns 03 Titans. In other words THIS is how DC should have done their new Teen Titans series.

I remember the episode where Bart Allen showed up. I went nuts when they showed Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, Wally West, and Bart Allen all on screen together. I was so happy, finally the Flash Family together!! I was so happy that happened because that's something that can't happen know in DC and even if it did it wouldn't hold any weight. Jay Garrick inspired Barry Allen to become The Flash. Without that, there's no point or reason for them to ever meet. There's no kind of emotional reasoning behind it because according to this new universe Barry is the first Flash. It's things like that which make me mourn for DC. All of these characters that meant something to each other be it friend, mentor, lover, what have you, are just gone.

I don't know your opinion of Marvel, I've always liked both Marvel and DC equally myself, but at least they hold onto their history. Captain America is the same Captain America that was from the Golden Age. DC can't say the same about Superman can they?

@smart_dork_dude: I feel the exact same way about everything you said even the Marvel stuff

you should really check out Smallville Season 11....it's my favorite DC book right now....it's just doing everything right imo...they even fixed the problem of having Bart around before any other Flash by having him connect to the Speed Force in a time of need and having Barry, Wally, and Jay show up to help him...when Clark asks him who helped him he told him that he hadn't met his helpers yet...they've introduced Miss Martian and they're bringing Wonder Woman into the next arc...I can't recommend it enough

@danhimself: I've been told good things about it. I was actually reading it for a bit, but the Batman stuff made me drop it since I just couldn't take him seriously in that costume and he seemed kinda nuts and I don't mean regular Batman nuts. I mean Frank Miller Batman nuts.

@smart_dork_dude: he's not quite up to Frank Miller's standard craziness but he's definitely a few steps higher than the regular Batman....as for the suit...it shows a little later that that suit was his antiSuperman suit...it's extra armored and has a red sunlight generator in the emblem on his chest...I can understand him wearing it for the first time that he meets Superman but I really don't know why he's still wearing it...I've kind of learned to overlook it

@danhimself: He just seemed a little too close to Miller's "Crazy Steve" Batman for my tastes. Still I think I may pick it up again since it sounds like the only place I can escape the New 52 in DC. Also I must admit, that Superman costume is the best. Another perfect example of a redesign without the briefs that doesn't need to be armor. THAT should have been his New 52 costume! Either that or his Earth two costume which I site as the ONLY good thing to come out of Earth 2.

@smart_dork_dude: The Smallville suit is a good no-briefs design, I especially like the two tone blue aspect. However, I think your pic would have been a great look for the new 52 and could have still used the bio-tech concept to make its durability and concealment believable. the only thing I would do differently with that design is still give him a simple gold belt rather than the little gold v section. so keep the red around the waist and just put the original gold belt in the center.

but everything else looks great, even the body tone, which I think is a better look for Superman (more of a toned, triathlete look than a body builder) and one of the things that I was actually disappointed with in Man of Steel. Cavrill got too big for the role. Would have preferred him with the physique he had in Immortals which I thought made him look more badass than Man of Steel. maybe it would have made his Superman look a bit too thin in the suit, but I don't think it would have been so significant that audiences would not believe Superman to be powerful. Reeve wasn't bulky at all yet he still looked powerful when wearing the suit because of his height and overall physique. I think the same would have been true of Cavril.

My god....you freed me.

pic or I call bs!

@smart_dork_dude: yeah you should definitely give it another shot..like I said before it's my favorite DC book right now

Both of those suit designs are better than the New 52's design...though I'm one of the few around who think that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the briefs and the preFlashpoint design

@danhimself: Yeah I think I will. Kinda pathetic when you think about it though, that Smallville of all things is currently more DC-like than the ACTUAL DC universe? Don't get me wrong, I loved Smallville, but with all the liberties it took before Clark got around to being Superman I just find it uncanny.

I prefer the classic as well. However I do concede that with different toned universes there is a need for different takes on the Superman costume. Man of Steel for instance was clearly going more sci-fi than straight up superhero so his costume needed to look more alien. Snyder even said they TRIED to work in the briefs in the design, but with the tone of the movie they just couldn't make them work.

For the Smallville costume I was a little surprised since at the end of the show it looked like he was in the classic costume. Even in that little comic pic at the end with Chloe it showed the classic costume briefs and all. However again given the tone Smallville set the one they went with looks good as well.

I like the Earth 2 design mainly because I love it when they have the cape merged with the S-shield, like it's holding the cape in place, and the addition of red cuffs on the wrists are a nice aesthetic

@smart_dork_dude: at some point in the Smallville book Lois mentions something about Clark changing costumes but I'm not sure if there was a reason given

I haven't seen MoS yet but as of right now I still don't like the suit...I think it's the colors mostly...they're to muted and dark for a Superman costume

that's one of things about the Earth 2 costume that I like as well...I'm not really a fan of the low neck line on it but I don't think that the shield/cape thing would work with a higher neck line

@danhimself: Still odd, but whatever.

In the movie there are scenes that make it look brighter. Really it depends on the lighting of the scene in some instances. I DO highly recommend seeing it.

Yeah the low neck line makes me think of a leotard, but luckily the S-shield draws my attention away from that usually which is another way the design works.

@danhimself:

one of the reasons for the change was that Clark added a lead lining over his chest (presumably under the shield) to protect himself from kryptonite bullets. give the fact he was shot with kryptonite bullets later on it doesn't appear that the entire shoot is protected that way.

also, I know we are talking about the look of Superman.....but the new look for Kara in the Smallville series I think is much better than the new 52 look and yet at the same time would have fit in almost perfectly with the Superman new 52 look given the high collar and more regal appearance.

You ever think to judge the books on a case by case basis and not have a blanket judgement over the entirety of the New 52?

Yeah, some DC books got it bad in the reboot....some actually benefitted. *cough* Wonder Woman *cough*

@danhimself: I totally agree with you! While I am 14 and suppose to be part of the New 52's target audiance I was never that lazy 5 years ago when I got into comics. When I was first getting into comics I spent more of my money on comics from the back issue box (I barely bought newly released comics), went to local comic books shows to get old Batman/Detective Comics, look the characters up on Wikipedia, and one of the first things I bought while getting in to comics (mainly DC) were the encyclopedias. Rebooting the whole universe I got so into kinda pissed me off a bit, but did kinda catch my attention.

Really the only good things the New 52 has done for me was getting me interested in new characters aside from the Batman/Robin comics I usually bought and Captain Marvel and Superman books I occasionally bought. I have lost interest in comics for about a year and this past year I have tried New 52 has got me reading The Flash, Wonder Woman (two heroes that have quickly climbed up to being my favorites), Aquaman, Mera, The Martian Manhunter, and many more characters. I started looking more into the characters and their cast in my DC encyclopedia's, Wikipedia, and Comic Vine (found out about this site looking stuff up on the characters actually). It even got me buying back issues of these characters (last month I bought a 80 Pg. Giant of the Flash from the 60's along with my New 52 pull list). It even got my best friend into comics who always loved Superman and the rest of the DCU, but was always intimidated by the numbers series like Action, Detective, Batman, Superman, and other titles were on (mainly because they were somewhere in their 800 something issues). After that we started borrowing comics and back issues.

The way I am looking at New 52 is that everything that I liked happened pre-52 still happened and the things I like from the New 52 art part of the characters history. DC never told us we couldn't take things we liked before and now and be creative and make our own little timeline for the DCU.

Thanks for putting up this forum. Interesting read and very funny theory :D

@crazyscarecrow: Hmm, lemme ask you something do you know who any of these are?

If you can't answer any of these then DC has failed you as a young reader beyond comprehension

Young Justice is a great example of a good revamp/reboot. Funny, every single character was not angsty or angry to make it work.

I cannot agree that Wonder Woman is better since the character is almost entirely a different character. It's almost like saying Spider-Man is better because he is now Deaspool. She has no clear mission, she was hated by her sisters, she is mostly a hot headed warrior and she is the least smiling Wonder I've ever encountered. Wonder means to be filled with awe, admiration, and amazement-- not swords and a never ending mission to babysit.

I fear those who run from history. History is stronger and more resilient than a quick fix.

Lets face it. DC is incapable of intelligent, solid stories built around a fully comprehensible multiverse both in comics and the big screen. Man of Steel was great, but where are the multitude of movies spinning out of 75 years of successful stories--- oh yeah, "that never happened"

And the sales say people are not choosing to spend money on that gamble.

@smart_dork_dude: Hell yeah! My favorite Green Lantern, Alan Scott! Jay Garrick's Flash who actually originally inspired Barry Allen! Hourman. Can't tell which one, but since you are mainly showing me Golden Age heroes I'm guessing Rex Tyler. And the last one is Wesley Dodd's Sandman which is probably my super hero costume ever! Shame of what DC did to the Justice Society cast. They aren't even the characters they are supposed to be and they lost that old school feel. Justice League is the super hero team that has to move with the times. Justice Society is the team that has a great accuse to stay old school.

@crazyscarecrow said:

You're 14? I have to say it's refreshing to see someone your age that knows about and actually likes Golden Age DC. Alan Scott is my favorite Green Lantern too! Also that Hourman was Rick Tyler, Rex Tyler's son. I threw him in to see if you could tell, though you surprised me by knowing it was Hourman. Also yeah I do like Sandman's classic costume in any version because of how simplistic and yet iconic it is.

As far as the JSA go, I do believe it was a massive mistake on DC's part to try and "modernize" them. They already have a modern Justice Society and it's called the Justice LEAGUE!!!! Seriously!!!!! I will admit, the idea of a Justice Society forming in modern times is an interesting idea, but it should be done in an Elseworld's story and not replace the original characters!!!!!!

The JSA are timeless. They're like Captain America in that regard. The times may change, but they don't. I would have loved it if DC did a JSA book when they were in their prime and in the 40's back when they first existed. That would have been so wonderful!!!! And when they eventually merge or meet the standard DC universe, it would be a great contrast with this new universe!!!!!! Old school heroes reacting to these modern heroes and showing them that they may be considered old fashioned, but they're still capable of handling modern problems!!!

DC is forgetting their roots. They are the company that started superheroes, they published the FIRST superhero Superman!!!! They created the first superhero team in comics the Justice Society of America!!!! It's hard to watch DC do this to themselves and even harder to read.

It's like if Marvel replaced their main universe with their Ultimate Marvel universe. Oh you're still getting Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Spider-Man, etc. However the only ONE out of those characters are ANYTHING like what they should be and that's Spider-Man. I ONLY read Ultimate Spider-Man when it was Peter Parker(I find the new Ultimate Spidey pretty bland as a character). Ultimate Spider-Man wasn't the same as regular Spider-Man but he was still enjoyable and had interesting takes(for the most part) on Spider-Man's corner of the Marvel Universe. Currently it's the same with DC for me. I only read Superman books from DC now compared to when I used to read Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, JSA, and Teen Titans. Superman isn't the same as he used to be, but is still enjoyable to me even if I hate his armor costume.

@smart_dork_dude: Right-a-roonie! My two favorite ages are the Golden and Silver ages because the art is so simplistic, interesting to see modern day heroes like Superman, Batman/Robin, and Wonder Woman in the WWII settings, and the stories always are a bit uplifting and has some pretty crazy stories that are sometimes fun to laugh at. Like I said one of the first things I ever bought related to comics when I was 9 was a DC encyclopedia which had almost all the characters and their history from Golden to Modern (as of 2004 that is).

To tell you the truth the only character I have ever read of the ones you have shown were Jay Garrick's Flash as it was one of the reprints in the Flash 80 Pg. Giant from the Silver Age. I love Alan Scott because he has such a awesome costume and he doesn't revolve around science fiction and more mystical things. I can just tell he's my favorite as I am not that big of fan of alien intergalatic stuff. Hourman I never really had a interest for and I even I had to go look at my encyclopedia to find the name because I wasn't sure which Hourman it was. Also looks like I have to start looking for the Sandman comic you pulled up. Wesley's version always looked interesting, but I could never find a comic with him in it.

And I totally agree with you about JSA! I think the worse thing they was to Alan Scott. They took away his awesome costume and looks like the sci-fied it up. Plus, they made the character that had a gay son become gay (great idea!). The only good things I can think is having a JSA meet the Justice League kinda like those lengendary Silver Age comics, but even then it won't have that same feel has those old comics would've. I hope someone comes along realize it's a mistake and say the Nazi fighting Golden Age JSA are on a different Earth. Speaking of that type of JSA I remember reading there was a All-Star Squadron comic in the early 80's that was pratically JSA, but added some new characters and characters like Plastic Man and Captain Marvel that were aquired from Fawcett and Quality.

Of the New 52 that I picking up is Batman, Nightwing, Flash, Wonder Woman, and Justice League. All of which have been pretty good. My friend has been buying Superman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, and the JLA so we can see what is up with Martian Manhunter. With the extra money I have I am thinking of getting Captain Marvel's ongoing when he get one (though I am afraid of what they'll due to Mr. Mind!) or a Batman/Detective back issue. However I am thinking of getting JSA back issues now that I found out they had a series a couple years back.

Also I know DC is doing this digital first/later print series for both Batman and Superman. I haven't read the Batman (Legend of the Dark Knight I believe) one yet (surprisingly), but I have picked up the first in the Superman series (Adventures of Superman) when it went to print and it is pretty good. It has like 3 short stories all written and drawn by fans of the characters in the buisness which really shows how much the character means to them. It's pretty cool. I totally recommend it for you if you don't want to mess with the New 52, but still have the regular DC universe. :D

It's because you are acting like "idiots who cant get with the times" I started reading with the new 52 but i know of the pre 52 universe pretty well and have since read allot of books from then. I read every series with the exception of 3 and for the most part i don't see any dipping of quality since the new 52. Most of the things people keep on pissing and moaning about are petty things like costume changes that don't particularly effect the story in any way, either that or its that a character that they like hasn't appeared yet (emphasis on the word YET). you people need to just get over it already and try actually reading the books your complaining about instead of just reading 2-4 books and making a judgement on the entire line.

@marco_kidd: It's all in the presentation. Opinion on ANYTHING is usually about 90% presentation. Like take a movie for instance, it could have great visuals and LOOK really cool, but the plot and/or characters involved could be complete crap.

Now let's say someone makes you your favorite food. It's your absolute favorite, no way in the world you could hate it. Now let's say that instead of being served to you on a plate, it's served on a rusty, grime covered, garbage can lid. Not too appitizing is it?

I will say that the stories of the New 52 haven't been that good, and there are those who agree with me. Not particularly bad, just not that good. And basically most of these changes are sound if not totally and completely not required in many cases(Earth 2 didn't even need to exist. Love my Golden Age characters as they were thank you very much).

You see? DC presented the New 52 POORLY and it came off as just stupid change after stupid change and hurtful to real fans.

I guarantee you that if DC had not included an Earth 2 book and had made this seem like a move the writers wanted it to go instead of just another reboot made by an uncaring corporation who thinks so little of their fans to the point they insult our intelligence by opening up their vault of "Unused Ideas from the 1990's"

Yes, the New 52 claims to be modern and all that jazz, but when it comes right down to it I feel like I'm stuck in the 90's when I'm reading New 52 comics. The "grim, serious, brooding, someone help me find the TARDIS so I can leave" 90's. I mean even Superman of all people is wearing FREAKING ARMOR!!!!!!!!! That's the level of 90's we've gotten!!!! I'm surprised he doesn't have gigantic guns and pouches all over his costume!!!! How in the name of sanity does having a man who is invulnerable to about 98% of everything in the universe wearing armor make even the smallest amount of sense?!?!?! Go on, answer that little riddle. If you can tell me why it makes sense, why SUPERMAN of all beings in the universe NEEDS armor, if you can tell me that it's not one the most idiotic costume change any superhero has had, I will take back everything bad I have ever said about the New 52. And don't give me any stupid reasons either, he doesn't have it in numerous other universes and does just as well if not better!!!

Sometimes, I wonder why people keep reading comics if all they do is get stressed out and complain about them. But who am I to judge peoples' masochistic lifestyles?