#1 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

I say "should" because it seems it's never written consistently. I'm looking for more of what we think makes sense.

This thought came to me while reading Vol3 & late-Vol2 of Wonder Woman. Often her gods (the Greek pantheon) are portrayed as how I think they should be - not quite omnipotent creators (like "the presence", which is more of a judeo-christian, one-above-all type god), but still having enough power & magic to seem that way to even the super-heroes like Superman or Wonder Woman (they can create life, manipulate reality to an extent, etc). However, once & a while I noticed they were written as not much different than the top heroes, that WW could battle them & it wouldn't be total over-kill (ie: in Vol3 she puts an ax in Ares' skull & while he doesn't die in the conventional sense, she basically kills him).

The New Gods I've always thought should be like gods compared to normal people/species (since they're all essentially super-heroes to some degree & have some of the universe's best technology). But other than that they aren't really reality manipulators or "creators" in the like of the Greek gods (& the other classic earth god pantheons). (Withing themselves, their power has also fluctuated, sometimes being so strong the top heroes are no match (in Superman Confidential, Orion seemed to be able to easily handle Superman) but other-times Superman could stand a chance against even the best of them).

The real trouble here comes when these 2 groups meet, when prior to Final Crisis the NG of Apokolips "conquered" the Greek Gods (WW's book mentions this specifically a lot). This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially that most of Darkseid's cronies are much weaker than he is (Superman has rarely had trouble with any of them).

Was Morrison (et all) wrong to make the New Gods this "powerful"? Or should the Greek-gods (& other earth gods) have been weaker? (that they were only written as they were to fit in with WW's Greek mythos, when in fact they are just super-powered being who seemed like gods to normal people - just as in Marvel, Thor is just of a species that is very powerful, he's not a creator or reality manipulator or w/e - and there are other "normal" super heroes who can still hang with him in a fight (ie: Superman, WW & the like should be able to fight a lot of the earth "gods")).

#2 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5861 posts) - - Show Bio

Very

#3 Posted by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree

#4 Posted by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

My thinking is the thing they tried to do is the same thing that happened between the Titans and the Gods. The titans were stronger (I believe) but were still defeated by the gods.

While i also believe DC has stated that the New Gods are supposed to b more powerful then the old gods it doesnt really seem to be the case. They just seem to have more technology and less magic and true power. I think the new gods shouldnt actually be a replacement to the old gods and should just be a race ob beings that have been around since the newest big bang with unparalleled technology. They could still be slightly stronger then the current pantheon of superheros (with Darkseid being noticeably more powerful then Superman thank to the Anti-Life Equation)

I could even understand someone arguing that point (that the Greek Gods are just a species more powerful then humans but not actual gods). If that was the case though i would want them to be born out of magic or a magical realm since that is Wonder Womans background and helps explain some things.

#5 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: I agree with that middle part. They're gods by name, not by ability/reality. It's as if some writer was reporting on a society of people where Superman where would seem ordinary, they might label them "The New Gods". Their location that is seemingly unique (& not replicated in each of the parallel universes) probably doesn't help the perception that they are actual gods. (That's another good Q...if the Greek (& other civilization) gods are replicated in each universe (when there were multiple ones) or if their realm is aside from that (that would definitely make them more powerful I'd think)).

#6 Edited by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout:

I thought according to the New 52 that the Roman or Greek gods are the gods of every universe so the ones that die in our universe also die in every other universe bc they are the same person. Basically there is one set of gods for the whole Multi-verse

#7 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: Oh yea? I wouldn't have any clue (even if it was said in something I read, I probably forgot). I wonder why they're not "immune" to the universe collapsing stuff .....DC's cosmic-hierarchy is so confusing, lol. Given they're the gods of every universe I would think they definitely have to be more powerful than the NG who Superman can sometimes go toe-to-toe with.

#8 Posted by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: Idk why i just thought i heard someone mention that when Earth 2 came out and they were talking about the god Flash (from Earth-2) got his powers from being from the same set of gods Diana (from Earth-1, or New Earth) got her powers from. I think i read that in an interview. But i also beleive they stated the same thing about the new gods. Darkseid attacked Earth-1 while Steppenwolf attacked Earth-2 bc they are from the same set of new gods and dont have multiple versions of them selves stemming from each universe but are god over all universes

#9 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

The deities of DC are supposed to be generated by the source wave or whatever it is called bouncing back and forth across the universe. The first wave created the the old god, the 2nd the new gods, and the latest The Heroes of Earth... so the rankings are something like this...

  1. The Source
  2. The demons, angels, and various forces like "Death" "The Spectre" etc...
  3. The spectrum entities
  4. The Old Gods
  5. The New Gods
  6. The Super humans and meta-forces on Earth
  7. Immortal normal beings
  8. Mortals

There is obviously cross-over with some more power and some less powerful. It should be noted that there are groups that seems to be a level between New and Old Gods which is filled by Maltusians, their enemies, their allies, Sun Eaters, etc...because they don't seem to be touched by the New Gods at all and they can subdue the spectrum entities which means they must have some sort of power over them. Of course this could mean that they are just part of the Old Gods or something...

There is a DC story about the New Gods fighting the Old Gods...and the Old Gods having problems, but I think it's explained by some sort of interference rule or just the shear number difference.

#10 Posted by deaditegonzo (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

The New Gods, as a whole, should basically be equal to the Old Gods. The lesser New Gods should be on par with, or just above, all but the most powerful Super Heroes. The top dogs, like Darkseid, should be superior to the Old Gods, and should be beyond the capability for any hero to solo. /IMO

#11 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken: Good point re. the Guardians. They seemingly get forgotten (perhaps due to their massive involvement in "earthly" matters, but in all but a few cases they are shown to be very god-like in their power/technology.

#12 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: I also forgot the most powerful person in the DCU theoretically save for "The Source"... That character is... Black Alice. All the most powerful characters are magic based and she has the ability to channel and thus steal the power from any magic character which makes her technically the most powerful character ^.^

#13 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken: true, I remember in late-JLv4 she stole Eclipso's power & at the time he was being written to his full potential (ie: as strong as Spectre).

#14 Posted by sinestro_GL (3050 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as I'm aware, the Greek Gods power alternates depending on what the story requires. It can be terribly inconsistent at times.

With the New Gods, they have at time suffered from being written by writers that aren't entirely familiar with the Fourth World...which is why you sometimes see New Gods like Darkseid and Orion do incredible things, but somehow are bested by lesser impressive adversaries.