How powerful should Darkseid be?

If you could have Darkseid written consistently and as powerful as you wanted, how powerful would you make him?

Would you make any other changes to his character?

Personally, I'd make Darkseid so powerful that Superman alone would stand no chance against him.

Supes shouldn't even really be able to put up much resistance against Darkseid if he really wants to hurt him. His punches wouldn't hurt him, none of his attacks could even phase him and he can't hope to out-muscle him. A full power blast from Darkseid's Omega Beam would simply erase Clark. However, either give Darkseid a reason not to completely erase Superman (he wants to use him to create an army to further his goals or he wants to use him as a soldier once he obtains the ALE) or chalk of Superman not getting erased as a result of his exposure to the Source Wall, giving him limited protection.

Basically, he should be an enemy against the entire DCU, reserved for crossovers, not squandered as a Superman villain.

Silver-Age levels

Darkseid is supposed to be the ultimate baddie in the DC universe, therefore it is kinda sad and ruins the character when Superman takes him on alone (it also creates annoying inconsistencies in comic books). I want Darkseid to be able to stomp Superman with ease, he should be undoubtedly the greatest threat in the DC universe. I think this would make for better stories because whenever Darkseid presents himself it would require heroes to come together and cooperate to defeat him.

He should be powerful enough that the whole Justice League should have a very hard time beating him alone. I think you're making him a bit overpowered, he shouldn't have the ability to be indestructible to Clark's attacks and then vaporize him with one effortless move (he should want to kill him), but he should be able to defeat Clark fairly easily.

Fair enough.

How Kirby intended him to be. Justice League fighting him straight up should be beaten quite easily. Look at how Thanos was treated in Marvel, shown as almost untouchable in the sense of how he made the universe his play thing many times.

He should be powerful enough to take out the JL. Powerful enough to do whatever he wants with minimum interference.

Somewhere in between Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis levels. Able to handle many, many heroes at once like Superboy Prime. Maybe not as powerful as him physically but his energy attacks more than make up for that. He shouldn't be completely immune to damage, but only able to be hurt by planet or maybe even star busting attacks.

I don't want Darkseid to be a completely physical villain, though. He should only fight when he absolutely has to, which would be rare. I want to see the cunning, manipulative side of DS, the one who controls things from behind the scenes, seeing everyone as nothing more than pawns on a chess board, the Anti-Life Equation being his checkmate.

We need to see him manipulating and even forcing villains to give in to his agendas. We need to see him making the Justice League's lives a living hell and them defeating whatever villains he throws at them and still failing to grasp the enormity of the situation. And then, when Darkseid finally shows himself, there needs to be a certain feel to his presence. The heroes and the reader alike should have a feeling of "all hope being lost and there isn't a damn thing the League can do to stop DS from doing whatever he wants. He needs to have a certain omnipotent feeling to him, even without the ALE.

This is why I don't think he should be used much. He needs to be an every once in a while type villain, showing up only when things get Really bad. Him showing up, kicking everyone's asses and maybe even killing a few people only to barely be defeated in the end by some really powerful being who doesn't really get involved in these things. This, I believe, would be the true Darkseid.

P.S: A neat little idea I had for his Omega Beams: instead of completely erasing his enemy from existence, they erase their bodies, leaving DS to take their souls and do whatever he wants with them.

First of all, the Omega Effect should be Darkseid's Odinforce. It should be heavily versatile in it's powers, whether it be concussive force, heat beams, disintigration rays, teleportation, transmutation, time control, and possibly even some reality warping. Darkeid should be depicted as a Skyfather, he is the head of the Apokoliptian gods for crying out loud. A single planet should be nothing to him but a marble in a space of millions of marbles. But above all, Darkseid should be a schemer! Behind the scenes, manipulating events, defying the Source at nearly every turn. When Darkseid himself, not his avatars appear, you should feel like you are immediately screwed without help from other New Gods. I'm sick of Darkseid, majestic and dark as he is being used as a generic conquerer villain.

everyone agrees he should be the Justice Leagues problem and not Supes alone. His arrival should be an event himself. but they have to bring a reason why he isn't constantly attacking Earth and other worlds.

He should not have been beaten so easily in Geoff Johns' Justice League Origins. I know that much. "Quick, go for his eyes!" How dumb.

Pretty damn powerful. I don't know how he was conceived of in the first place, like what level he is vs supes. I think his super minions and army should also be taken into account to a degree. I just want a backoff on the silly magic eyebeams.

From wikipedia: His Omega Sanction traps the organism in a series of alternate realities, each one worse than the previous. Really? Is someone monitoring all the infinite realities and keeping track to make sure this poor soul gets jumped to each progressively worse reality? Seems like a lot of paperwork. Bring on the super ventriloquism.

No keep him and his omega very powerful, but no magic.

I feel like, from a human perspective, the idea of punching Darkseid should be similar to that of punching a mountain.

As others have said, he should be like a skyfather level and should be able to cause trouble for the entire Justice League and shouldn't struggle against just Superman on his own.

I think i would change his dress code, and surely make him skyfather level in power. He should then proced to one shot the JLA members. Lastly it should be an ubber stomp in his favour anytime he fights superman alone

He should be strong enough to stomp Superman and take down the entire Justice League at once with a bit of effort. He shouldnt be able to be beaten by brawn.

@comicstooge said:

The handicap for Darkseid here is that he is a villain. Villains are defined by their heroes and Darkseid in the 'New 52!' is Superman's villain (especially given he's going through the effort to mutilate a bunch of alternate Supermen's corpses to build his Frankenstein). His level of power is going to be reflected around the Man of Steel.

With that in mind; where he is right now is a right range for the character. He's strong enough to beat 'New 52' Superman senseless, almost without effort in certain circumstances (use of OBeams) but Superman can still hurt him - he can still fight him to an extent. Long story short I would be writing him as a planet buster / world creator. More of a Silver Surfer, a lot less of a Thanos.

Changes:

His overal goals would have to be more tangible and I would probably have him achieve them. That way he can reflect on the journey and hopefully get some measure of character growth out of it. (Reflection is generally a good way to get that done.) And I would focus on less zombie supermen and more of big plan / end-game to keep him interesting, while having him fight the hero as little as possible (to avoid him becoming his punching bag).

If I wanted to make him more powerful I'd have to expand his 'goal' - his 'end game' to something that would make him need to have more heroes to fight. That or make Superman more powerful (which seems to be the more likely option for now).

A being powerful enough to stare Odin in the eye and present himself an actual threat. As in, be able to take on a starving Galactus.

Too strong for Thor, Hercules, Superman and the like.

A good match for Odin, Zeus, Thanos and their like.

I want to see him pretty powerful. Powerful enough to make the JLA prepare for him each and every encounter.

I heard somewhere that Kirby's Darkseid is Galactus level. Personally I would like him on that level. He is one of the best villains DC has and should not really be beaten by physical or conventional means.

@superhulksmash: Kirby Darkseid usually slapped around Silver Age Kryponians. Darkseid should be a legit skyfather.

Darkseid should be strong enough to toss Superman around no problem in his early years. I like seeing Superman going full force and putting some damage to Darkseid but Darkseid is a god, it should take a Superman that has been soaking in rays of sun in space for a day to make Darkseid feel it.

The video below (first half of video anyways) i think should be a good representation of how a battle between Superman and Darkseid would go for Superman on a good day

And this should be how it goes when its a nothing left to lose (maybe put Superman in a black sun absorbing suit) and totally pissed off

of course if anyone knows the second video knows how it ends... This is how the fight should go but as in the end of the video, Darkseid does get the upper hand again. HE IS A GOD he should always be considered the more likely winner in a fight between these two.

I always imagined he'd be twice as strong as Superman.

I'd say at his weakest Darkseid should be 1.5 times as powerful as a bloodlusted kryptonian.

universal - multiversal

Just in your wet dreams

Thanos level with access to Universal power (Source).

I'd say Darkseid should be powerful enough to dominate the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Shazam, and Orion in a fight. By dominate, I don't mean curb stomp, I feel that they should be able to damage him with a few hits. However, Darkseid can deliver much more damage and can take even more so. A good visual representation that inspired me would be John Cena vs Brock Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014. With Darkseid as Brock and the aforementioned heroes as Cena.

I'm pretty much in agreement with most everyone here. Darkseid should be more powerful than Superman and should be able to win pretty easily in a fight. I don't mind if Superman can rock Darkseid's head a little, even cause a bit of damage. But at the end of the day, if Darkseid gets serious, then Superman has no chance.

I HATE it with a passion when Superman pulls a victory. I like to call that Darkseid, Jobberseid. Anyone who has Darkseid lose to Superman does NOT understand the character at all. He's supposed to be the biggest bad guy in the DC universe. Not much of a threat if Superman can handle him alone. It should require the entire Justice League (along with the big 7 on it) in order to beat him. Even then, barely at that.

Superman level like hes always been portrayed.

Star Cluster/Multi Star System Physicals/Durability/Destructive Capability

Picosecond Reaction/Fighting Speed and Teleporting for Travel Speed

Hax Matter Manipulation, Molecular Dispersion, Psychics (TK, TP, Blasts etc...)

Stronger than Superman. Atleast Thanos tier.

He should be up there as a Sub-God Tier character, same as characters like Athena, Ares, below ones like Poseidon, Hades, Hera, Zeus, Gaia, Erebus, Nyx.

Going strictly by his DC/AP, I would put him at Star Cluster Level

and his Avatars as Large Planet level.