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Edited by drgnx

This is an else-world, I take it and enjoy it for what it is. This comic is meant to lead into a video game called "Injustice Gods Among Us", it was probably easier to have them start off a little dark than to go through the series of events needed to have them ready for the Video Game when it comes out. They obviously have an end goal for the character, and if you don't like it so far, you might not like her in-game story by the time they are done. I get what you don't like, but you know with infinite universes (or ~52) you are bound to dislike a few.

Posted by gokuwarrior

@Delphic: well she is a warrior,what they mean is that she loves peace,but is ready to fight and do whatever it takes when it's necesary,and that's because she is a warrior,but a warrior with honor and morals,and this is not part of DC continuity so don't worry.

by the way,which issue she said that she is sick of words?.

Posted by Delphic

@gokuwarrior: It happened in the latest issue (Issue 10). Also my point of this blog is just why I despise this rendition of Wonder Woman. I'm no stranger to elseworlds and various other non-cannon stories.

Posted by gokuwarrior

@Delphic: i uderstand,but they really don't show her to be that bad,she is not a killer in this else world,and even someone that loves peace has a limit,sometimes she has to fight,sometimes she has to kill even if she doesn't want to,that's an important topic about her character.

Posted by KnightRise

Her actions in issue 9 were pretty out of character, even for an Elseworld.

Posted by RazzaTazz

Oh ... DC ... when will you learn

Moderator
Posted by Delphic

@gokuwarrior: She hasn't been shown to kill yet, and like you say a person who prefers peace has a limit. In this case though, they depict her as a manipulator with an ulterior motive. She may not have killed anyone yet, but she has no problem in using what she has whether it be her skills, her wiles, or her body, to get others to do what she wants. It's been written in such a way that this is an obvious power grab disguised as a peace crusade. I have a feeling when the game comes out, Superman may be the face of the regime, but Wonder Woman will be the one driving the horse.

Edited by drgnx

She couldn't possibly be worse than

E-3 Super Women

or

"Universe of Evil" Wonder Woman

^_^;

E3 - is actually Lois lane, actually I think all of E-3 are different for the JLA...which is why I wanted them all on main earth since Batman's brother is now Owlman ...

Posted by gokuwarrior

@Delphic: well it's good that this is only an else world.

Posted by akbogert

I don't know much about Wonder Woman, and even I felt she was a bit too OOC in her conversation with Ares.

That said, regarding the deception and such... I disagree with the implication that she is lying.

The truth is, there are two types of peace. One is the world in which humanity agrees to stop fighting, to lay down its arms, and to not let differences escalate to blows. Such a world shall never actually occur.

The other peace is the peace which follows one side eradicating or subduing the dissenting side; peace via conquest. This is the only truly achievable peace, though of course its cost is great and its justice debatable at best. One might even call a pursuit of such peace a pursuit of injustice. What Superman says to Batman, regarding the suffering he has permitted by refusing to take definitive action -- this is the sort of peace which justice precludes. It allows those who would abuse power and their fellow man -- to begin wars no matter how costly to their people -- to operate knowing there is no real penalty for doing so. The only way to stop such people is to kill or terrify them.

I am not advocating such a position. I am simply saying a person who truly wants lasting peace must acknowledge doing so requires violence first, and the death of liberty as well; for true freedom includes the ability to choose war, and peace requires that choice to be taken away.

Posted by Ellie_Knightfall

UGH

Posted by Ellie_Knightfall

Really well done, btw

Posted by jphulk26

@Delphic: I liked her character until the last story, that kind of ruined it the way she dealt with Aquaman. However I have to say, where as I could see Superman doing this, diana as I´ve known her would never ever do this. She´d be on Batmans side. It just seems so against her ideals and character, if they could have thought of a better motive for her to turn, it would have been much better. Maybe all the time Ares was disguised as Diana, and he had some how banished her to Tartarus, or, someone killing Hipppolyta, sending Diana over the edge. But she wouldn´t just do all this evil stuff on a whim, its just a fundamental misunderstanding of the character.

Edited by jphulk26

@KnightRise said:

Her actions in issue 9 were pretty out of character, even for an Elseworld.

Right? I mean it just didn´t make sense. One minute she´s all peace and love, next its like she´s a sociopath.

@akbogert said:

I don't know much about Wonder Woman, and even I felt she was a bit too OOC in her conversation with Ares.

That said, regarding the deception and such... I disagree with the implication that she is lying.

The truth is, there are two types of peace. One is the world in which humanity agrees to stop fighting, to lay down its arms, and to not let differences escalate to blows. Such a world shall never actually occur.

The other peace is the peace which follows one side eradicating or subduing the dissenting side; peace via conquest. This is the only truly achievable peace, though of course its cost is great and its justice debatable at best. One might even call a pursuit of such peace a pursuit of injustice. What Superman says to Batman, regarding the suffering he has permitted by refusing to take definitive action -- this is the sort of peace which justice precludes. It allows those who would abuse power and their fellow man -- to begin wars no matter how costly to their people -- to operate knowing there is no real penalty for doing so. The only way to stop such people is to kill or terrify them.

I am not advocating such a position. I am simply saying a person who truly wants lasting peace must acknowledge doing so requires violence first, and the death of liberty as well; for true freedom includes the ability to choose war, and peace requires that choice to be taken away.

I couldn´t disagree with your Hobbesian view of the world more. Yet it is eloquently put and hard to argue with. The way I see it, fear and brutality, can only lead to more fear and brutality. Yes we must stop atrocities against the weak and vulnerable and that will always speak volumes. The problem in our world is there seems always to be invested interest when such action is taken, which ultimately undermines and invalidates anything nobel about the action itself, often leading to more hatred and the manner in which such conflicts are conducted being less than civilized. I think the truth is evil will always exist, but the best way to reduce it, is to reduce the conditions under which such evil often arises and thrives. That is poverty, where desperation turns men who seek power to tyranny; greed, where a rampant lust for wealth, robs men of there empathy; ignorance, where men are unreasonable, how can rational decisions be made, and where ignorance is an acceptable view point, even those who are good, stand by as evil is being done in their name; and last tyranny, when brutality and unfreedom is all one knows from birth to adulthood, it hardens their hearts, so the whole world becomes either subjugate or be subjugated. If we can limit those evils, we can never fully get rid of them I know, I believe everyone in the world will be safer and more peaceful.

Also the above ideas is what Wonder Woman stands for, so even though I like this comic as an elseworld and I like she´s being portrayed as badass, it still confuses me she is being used like this.

Posted by RustyRoy

New 52 and Johns ruined the character.

Posted by Urban_Ronin

Makes me wanna start reading Injustice to be honest.

Posted by BlackWind

@drgnx: Love that Superwoman.

Posted by Stronger

@Delphic: Since I haven't read the Injustice comics,I am not allowed to compose an opinion,but something you said doesn't make any sense.

Wonder Woman doesn't have so much value for human life,since she won't hasitate to kill if necessary.Well I am not saying that Wonder Woman is a bad peson or doesn't deserve to be called a hero,but you cannot say to me that a person who wouldn't think twice about killing someone when she had to ,of course, has a strong value for human life.

To be fair,Wonder Woman would do anything for the sake of her mission and the safety of innocent.

The two characters that truely value human life are Batman and Superman.They refuse to take a life no matter how filthy,mean or insignifficant it is.No matter if that action would make world a better place.And they have passed that to their proteges etc.

Posted by Lvenger

That's how I feel about Injustice's portrayal of Superman. Just as with Wonder Woman, everything the character stands for is going down the drain for a Civil War/Kingdom Come mash up that will rake in money and give poor portrayals of these rich characters. It's so annoying and I won't have anything to do with it. Great blog by the way!

Posted by jphulk26

@Lvenger: @Lvenger said:

That's how I feel about Injustice's portrayal of Superman. Just as with Wonder Woman, everything the character stands for is going down the drain for a Civil War/Kingdom Come mash up that will rake in money and give poor portrayals of these rich characters. It's so annoying and I won't have anything to do with it. Great blog by the way!

I don´t mean to take a shot at you, but The Injustice Wonder Woman is a more accurate portrayal of Wonder Woman than Azzerrello. I like the story of Injustice, but yeah they have really shown a darker side to these characters, that I just can´t imagine them doing, all to make Batman look like the dude. But then again atleast Superman has a clear reason for what he is doing. His motivation is understandable, cause if anything can push a man over the edge its messing with his wife and baby. However, Wonder Woman just comes across as evil using the death of Lois to her advantage. I kind of like her being the villain, but I think if they´d show why she´s come to this conclusion, just a bit of back story, rather than just making it out like thats The Amazon way would better. The Amazons are a peaceful and wise race Pre-New 52, but I guess if she´s a product of the Amazons as Azzerrello presents them then this version of Wonder Woman makes sense.

Posted by Lvenger

@jphulk26 said:

@Lvenger: @Lvenger said:

That's how I feel about Injustice's portrayal of Superman. Just as with Wonder Woman, everything the character stands for is going down the drain for a Civil War/Kingdom Come mash up that will rake in money and give poor portrayals of these rich characters. It's so annoying and I won't have anything to do with it. Great blog by the way!

I don´t mean to take a shot at you, but The Injustice Wonder Woman is a more accurate portrayal of Wonder Woman than Azzerrello. I like the story of Injustice, but yeah they have really shown a darker side to these characters, that I just can´t imagine them doing, all to make Batman look like the dude. But then again atleast Superman has a clear reason for what he is doing. His motivation is understandable, cause if anything can push a man over the edge its messing with his wife and baby. However, Wonder Woman just comes across as evil using the death of Lois to her advantage. I kind of like her being the villain, but I think if they´d show why she´s come to this conclusion, just a bit of back story, rather than just making it out like thats The Amazon way would better. The Amazons are a peaceful and wise race Pre-New 52, but I guess if she´s a product of the Amazons as Azzerrello presents them then this version of Wonder Woman makes sense.

Oh terrific here we go again. I should have known you'd try and pick me up on contradicting myself about Injustice's portrayal of Wonder Woman and Azzarello's. At the end of the day, it's all subjective in terms of our preferences and although there are sufficient reasons on both sides, preference is where it's all at.

Now you seem to define accurate as in forgoing her mission for peace, not using words as a tool like Diana does when written properly and Diana cuckolding Superman as her new boy toy after Lois' death. Azzarello isn't doing any of those things. And yes Injustice is setting up Batman to be the one to sympathise with which is annoying.

But I disagree that Lois and his unborn child's death is enough for Superman to suddenly become a dictator. Superman is supposed to be the ultimate force for good and represent everything good about humanity. This situation wouldn't be enough since Superman has endured similar loss before. In Superman: Ending Battle, Manchester Black convinced him that all his villains knew who he was and that he'd killed Lois. Despite all of this imagined suffering Superman refused to kill Black and resolved to just capture him and see him tried the right just way. Black then committed suicide because he failed to get Superman to falsely break his moral code.

Also, a point I'll steal from "50 Reasons Why Superman is the Greatest Superhero Ever" is relevant to my view. It's reason 24 and states "Superman was sent to Earth by accident. Even though in some versions he was sent to Earth knowingly, and in “Smallville” (ugh) he was sent there to rule the world (ugh), of the variations I’ve read, Superman was sent in to Earth, a primitive society when compared to Krypton and was endowed with god like abilities thanks to the yellow sun. And while he has all the power to rule this world if he so please, he chooses not to. He knows he has amazing power but he would rather use it to help humanity shape itself instead of decide that he is fit to rule for them." That's a reason why Superman works so well and Injustice nullifies that.

http://whatculture.com/comics/50-reasons-why-superman-is-the-greatest-superhero-ever.php/7#h0QGXX0WCMIGMOIx.99

Edited by jphulk26

@Lvenger:

Really good points, and I´m glad you didn´t get too caught up in that little jab I took at you, I just couldnt help myself. But anyway the reason I said Injustice WW is more accurate, apart from the latest comic, is her power, her indominable will, her ability to strategise all be it for the wrong reasons in this version of her, she´s smart, capable, powerful, has a bit of a sense of humor and has that temper, when faced with evils of the world that I loved in previous incarnations of her. She is an emissary of peace and as far as I can tell even though her personality is very different to the Wonder Woman we´re use to Pre-New 52 her history remains consistant with her pre-new 52 incarnations. You already no what I think of New 52 WW, so I won´t go into too much detail, but I just think the whole mythology of the character, and the way she is portrayed as compasionate and understanding, is not consistent with Azz´s retconned origin. It just strikes me as having far to many plot holes. I also feel she´s been robbed of the wisdom and tactical prowess I´ve always associated her with, which for me just makes her a water down version of the badass she used to be.

I agree with you on Superman. Hey we do agree on something. :) He´s perhaps the greatest Superhero ever, with one of the most beautiful and inspiring mythologies. I really get into it. What I also love about Supes is how much you can do with him, his tale is timeless, it could work in any setting, it just works and feels very complete. Now as for his swaying of values in this comic, I would say still its an elseworld and he´s coming off better than Wonder Woman as his transformation to Dictator is being given justification unlike Wonder Woman´s. I think maybe you´re right they could have executed it better, but I still think certain circumstances could even corrupt the Man Of Tomorrow and it is finding those circumstances that could push him to the edge that is one of things I find endlessly fascinating about his character and worthy of exploration, as sometimes his compassion for humanity and absolute sense of justice seems even more vast than his powers even.

Any way I wish you could see the how beautiful and inspiring Wonder Woman´s origin was and why it tears me apart what Azzerrello is doing, especially if he´s attempting to make his retcon stick. Her story had a powerful message at its centre and for me was one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.

Edited by SNascimento

A few points:

"In the most recent issue (#10) of Injustice, after a foolhardy Atlantean soldier shoots Diana, her wrathful reply as she strikes Aquaman is “I am sick of words.” The outburst shows that her talks of peace are lies" - No, it does not. it means that she is tired of talking to people with no effect. That is basic interpretation.

Injustice Wonder Woman doesn't seek power, she seeks peace. And she wants it no matter the cost. This is not bad by itself. It's all too fine to say Superheroes should defend liberty and leave the humankind to rule itself when you are fine on your home, but most people in the world are not. There is a deep discussion here which I will not start, but Diana words about humankind inability to rule itself are not wrong.

There is a duality, or even paradox in WW character. She is a warrior that loves to fight, yet she wants peace. She wants to talk people down yet she would love to fight them. "Despite her desire for peace, she revels in war" is a great example of this. This could be said about WW as a character, not just Injustice.

It's true that in the game she is extreme. But I think by seeing all parts of Wondie you can see from where all of this Injustice stuff comes from. I see it as a valid interpretation of the character. But of course, you can hate it.

Also, I wrote this about her in Injustice: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/is-wonder-woman-the-main-bad-guy-in-injustice/757408/?page=1

Posted by butterflykyss

@Delphic: though you don't like the character, the synopsis of her in this story was really well done..

Posted by Darksider555

@RazzaTazz said:

Oh ... DC ... when will you learn

they wont. nor will marvel. I think its only a matter of time before they completely piss all over their fans...

Posted by ccraft

I really like Injustice WW

Posted by Bogey

Wonder Woman just wants some of Supes

Posted by Wboy

I enjoy this particular else-world though. The different characterization is pretty interesting for me.

Posted by Evil Incarnate

I'm not so sure why so many seem to be heated over this. This is an Elseworld comic characters are supposed to be different if she were the same then it would be boring. As a Wonder Woman fan I enjoy it because it's nice to see Diana with some form of control when deeply involved in a heavy Batman/Superman driven story. Too often she kind of plays what feels like a supporting role, which is what I felt even while reading Trinity.

I think the problem most readers have lies with themselves. They've come to expect a certain feel towards characters and once the slightest thing is changed they become turned off and can't see anything past it. For example look at the big uproar over Wonder Woman's outfit when she was given pants.

Now many people like to completely blame the writers while I in this event blame the readers. Many have gone in with preconceived notions and expectations even while knowing that this is an Elseworld comic and that this would be clearly different from the DC continuum. I think many people are bad readers because they've blocked out imagination and have replaced it with facts. This is not a story about the Civil War and how it was really about escaping zombies as oppose to liberating a nation. This is an alternate tale about an imaginary universe. Point blank become a better reader. Read with no expectations and you may enjoy the story.

Edited by drgnx

Okay, it is official, I:GAU Wonder Women is evil, she lied to Clark and could ruin his relationship with Aquaman, she is also encouraging him to do bad things,

Posted by deaditegonzo

Even as an Elseworld comic, what is distasteful about it, I think, is three things:
1) These elseword versions of the characters are portrayed as very similar to the characters from the main universe, in a possible future where horrible tragedy has struck. Essentially, its an elseworlds story, sure, but it is something of a "What If?" (to use Marvel terminology). Who would Kal-El and Diana of New Earth be if Metropolis was nuked. On Earth 3, they couldnt be more different then the characters we know and love anyway, so it looks incredibly different, different enough not to offend.

2) The way Batman is being SO SHAMELESSLY promoted as the only moral barometer in the Justice League. The way Wonder Woman and Superman are behaving SO EXTREMELY out of character.Once again, there is sort of an "Uncanny Valley" at work, where they are similar enough, and then so utterly not "true" to their main universe counterparts as to be disturbing. Seriously, Superman is behaving exactly opposite as he has always been portrayed in every other elseworlds, and even the main universe where similar events have occurred. Consider this, in Kingdom Come, nearly the exact same event occurs, but because of his morals he is literally called old fashioned and goes into exile. In Ending Battle, he believes the same thing occurred, but his morals hold him back. The only version of Supes this is "in character" for is the Horrible Frank Miller-verse, but he looks so much like the real thing that its bothersome. Also, as Angry Joe has said, he is constantly being victimized by this kind of media, his character is always dragged through the mud by uninformed parties, particularly to promote Batman. And frankly, Batman is the one more likely to go on a rampage, to bend his rules, to become an authoritarian tyrant. It has been shown time and time again, in Kingdom Come, or even in canon, in Batman/Superman when he has super powers and immediately becomes power hungry. Shoot, in Red Son, which I assume Netherrealm is familiar with as they included skins from it, Superman is born and raised to be a dictator, but changes heart from a simple letter with one line written by Lex. There is also Superman: The Dark Side, where he is raised by DARKSEID HIMSELF!

3) Finally, this isnt canon, but it is canon for the universe of the game. A game that we are supposed to buy out of excitement to fight as our favorite characters, and to see an all new story about them. And yet, my favorites, Superman and Wonder Woman, are being dragged through the mud. And they will surely be the final bosses in the story mode, and we will get to defeat them as Batman, to restore goodness and heroism to a world Supes and WW oppressed. Thats pretty offensive to fans of those characters, imo. If Batman shows Supes the error of his ways after a long fight, rather than just beating him outright in the fight, it may even be more offensive, as the definitely more authoritarian and brutal "hero" will have taught the truly noble, selfless, and altruistic Superman how to BE a Hero.

Anyway, the point of my rant there was to defend those of us who find the characterization as a little off-putting. Im not threatening to not buy the game, I already have it on pre-order (RED SON!), and my hope is to be pleasantly surprised, and if not, at least still enjoy it as a multiplayer experience, where my friends and I's favorite character get to thrash eachother.

P.s. Popular elseworld iterations of a character have a way of influencing man universe versions, look at the current Avengers and Fury after the movie.

Edited by Evil Incarnate

Why are you guys complaining so much about an Elseworld comic being different when you know it's going to be different? That's like eating a snickers knowing that it's made of chocolate and then complaining because it taste like chocolate. If they were the same as the cannon universe then this NEVER would have happened.

This portrayal satisfies many people's curiosity as to what would happen if the Justice League had taken control. It's like a JLA version of The Authority. Haven't many of you wondered, "Why doesn't the JLA just stop the ruthless dictators that are killing, raping and pillaging?" "Why is (insert villain here) continued to exist when they know they're just going to kill again?" This is answer to those questions and instead of enjoying it and taking it for what it is the majority seems to keep whining that it's "different" then what they're used to.

Keep an open mind and just enjoy the story.

Edited by Delphic

@evil_incarnate: Don't think of it as whining, but instead of why you don't like a particular candy bar. For example: I love Hershey bars, but I can stand the Cookie's and Cream version because the taste makes me feel sick. In this deal with Wonder Woman it's more like I know what the flavor of the normal wonder woman is like and I like the taste of that, but I don't like the cookies and cream version of wonder woman.

Okay that explanation went to a totally different level of weird in my head.

Posted by Akindoodle

@delphic: Well, the story wouldn't really advance if she was her mainstream self; no one to push/goad Clark. That said, I like "enabler" WW. I've always wondered if she was capable of manipulating people like this and she is. It shows the politician/schemer/strategist in her. It's cool

Edited by Press Oblivion

It's an interesting take that's completely out of continuity. Yeah it
's kind of despicable but interesting.

Posted by Blood1991

I hated it too. She isn't some star struck brute! She's f__king WONDER WOMAN!!! Mofo's should be dedicating their lives to her, and The New 52 version in the Justice League isn't much better.

Edited by Evil Incarnate

@delphic said:

@evil_incarnate: Don't think of it as whining, but instead of why you don't like a particular candy bar. For example: I love Hershey bars, but I can stand the Cookie's and Cream version because the taste makes me feel sick. In this deal with Wonder Woman it's more like I know what the flavor of the normal wonder woman is like and I like the taste of that, but I don't like the cookies and cream version of wonder woman.

Okay that explanation went to a totally different level of weird in my head.

It's because you're more than likely comparing the two the characters not the candy bars. Look around this thread and the one thing in common you'll see with the people complaining is that they say, "Wonder Woman wouldn't act that way." The majority are so used to the way she's portrayed that they can't see her as anything else and the slightest change that doesn't benefit her for the better is seen as a betrayal by the writers. It's one thing to not like this version for reasons that are unique to this version alone, but for most it's because she doesn't fit the image that they personally have for her.

Go into the the Wonder Woman, Superman & Orion Love Triangle thread if you haven't already and you'll see the same thing. Many of the readers will say that's not her character even though they know practically nothing about New 52 Diana as she's still new to all of us and some are so turned off by the thought of her even liking more than one guy at the same time (If you've read any of the N52 WW comics with Orion you'd see that she hasn't demonstrated anything, but annoyance for his character.) that they've preceded to call her a whore or slut.

For example I'm sure many of our parents are used to the TV Wonder Woman and our grandparents may be used to Golden Age Wonder Woman and anything that came later whether it was Perez's or Simone's could and probably does seem bad to them because it's different. That's a common problem amongst people the inability to accept change. Bottom line is if you can only allow yourself to see Diana in one incarnation whether it be Golden Age, Silver Age, Post Crisis, New 52, etc then you can't completely blame the writer when you have a lack of imagination or are too stubborn to attempt to expand it.

Edited by Press Oblivion
Posted by SUNMAN

overall its an interesting story. Moreover its a video-game else-world.

I don't mind fictional characters being taken in new directions at times. Especially comic characters that are often stuck in perpetual characterizations

Posted by drgnx

Lol, non of the characters but Batman are acting like their mainstream selves except the normal humans heroes and that is the point. Don't be surprised if the villains get shown as anti-heroes or team up with the legue...

Posted by Evil Incarnate
Posted by SNascimento

People who don't like Injustice WW will be pleased with a scene in the game.

Posted by SandMan_

Well

I heard that The WW from that game is evil and comes from another universe.

@snascimento:Really?

Posted by jphulk26

@delphic: Just to let you know, just saw the walkthrough, Wonder Woman is awesome in the game. The WW we see Spoiler Alert: She´s a dopleganger from alternate world. The real Wonder Woman comes in and kicks her ass, in style.

Thats my girl. :)

P.S. These guys have written the coolest WW I´ve seen in a while. Azzerrelo should take note.

Edited by w0nd

@jphulk26 said:

@Delphic: I liked her character until the last story, that kind of ruined it the way she dealt with Aquaman. However I have to say, where as I could see Superman doing this, diana as I´ve known her would never ever do this. She´d be on Batmans side. It just seems so against her ideals and character, if they could have thought of a better motive for her to turn, it would have been much better. Maybe all the time Ares was disguised as Diana, and he had some how banished her to Tartarus, or, someone killing Hipppolyta, sending Diana over the edge. But she wouldn´t just do all this evil stuff on a whim, its just a fundamental misunderstanding of the character.

she hasn't done anything "evil" yet. She kept her mouth shut and spoke diplomatic matters when the time called for it. Her best friends wife was killed by a mad man, I believe she was the one who broke max lord's neck yes? for the greater good?? Well Joker destroyed an entire city you don't think her ideals would kind of shift to the "for the greater good" character again.

People forget this is a different reality. "Out of character" is quite a funny thing to read when it's not even in the same universe. His wife and unborn child were killed, his city distroyed, and his parents kidnapped and attack. Yeah I guess it is hard to believe that would cause someone to go power mad....what exactly did he do that was evil again? He killed joker who honestly should have had the death sentence 150x over....and he stopped countless amounts of war and told the people to lay down their weapons. he hasn't done anything insanely evil yet.

Batman hasn't been written as some moral selfless character. Superman pointed out how he ignored his kids and hasn't even bothered to ask how they were doing. They are all flawed beyond belief none is better than the other.

Posted by jphulk26

@w0nd:

@w0nd said:

@jphulk26 said:

she hasn't done anything "evil" yet. She kept her mouth shut and spoke diplomatic matters when the time called for it. Her best friends wife was killed by a mad man, I believe she was the one who broke max lord's neck yes? for the greater good?? Well Joker destroyed an entire city you don't think her ideals would kind of shift to the "for the greater good" character again.

Yeah they might shift but not to Totalitarianism. The fact is, as you said in that moment when she broke Max´s neck, she did the right thing. Something Batman and Superman never do. Which especially for Batman and The Joker is simply insane. His justification has always been weak. But WW only did that when she thought she had no other choice.

Its the same as her actions in New Frontier, with the women and children being killed by rogue guerrila army; she stands up against Supermans ridiculous idealism, and instead for the freedom and protection of the weak. As for her behaviour in this when she said she was fedup of talking, that is completely out of character for WW. Luckily the game explains it, and the good WW is better than anything I´ve seen in a while. As is Ares.

Batman hasn't been written as some moral selfless character. Superman pointed out how he ignored his kids and hasn't even bothered to ask how they were doing. They are all flawed beyond belief none is better than the other.

The fact is although you´ve made a good point about Batman´s not being this selfless character in the game, that isn´t the way most people see it. Batman is clearly being painted as far more heroic, when actually he´s the most fascistic and cruel of all the heroes. Who else tortures villains to get information. WW and Superman or Flash would never even dream of using some of the tactics Batman does. If anyone is likely to want the kind of order being spoken about its Batman. Not even Lois´s death would push Supes that far, his sense of justice just does not allow it, and WW´s loving spirit, would not allow her to punish the many for the actions of the few. Face it Batmans the real right wing dictator nutcase.

Posted by w0nd

@jphulk26: You know I always wondered, if the "children" didn't parade around as Robin's would he even give them a second thought? I don't mean he would flat out kick them out of the house, but ideally he isn't the best father figure lol. When he does something remotely "normal" like a dad should people get all teary eyed and happy because he RARELY does anything normal. Sure he doesn't shoot people with guns, but he does do things that are borderline psychotic at times, and when people call him out on it he doesn't think he's wrong.

Anyways I won't turn this into an I hate batman topic because I think the guy is cool, I don't hate him at all.

I understand people hate how Superman and Wonder Woman were portrayed in this story, but it is an alternate universe after all.

People seem to love the "Justice Lords" when all it took was the flash dying to create that team, but apparently if his wife and unborn child, and the city he lives in gets destroyed and he retaliates by telling people to stop having wars, and pretty much creates world peace....that is out of line.

In reality world peace isn't bad at all, it's just because he demanded it that makes him seem like a tyrant. If in the up coming issues he does something like "all tv and media will have a 24 hour loops with my face on it, a curfew of 7 pm, and no more fatty foods, " and just insane terms to follow then sure I will consider him an evil tyrant, but right now he told everyone to stop fighting, to which they replied with "FU! We're taking your parents"

Posted by jphulk26

@w0nd:

@w0nd said:

@jphulk26: You know I always wondered, if the "children" didn't parade around as Robin's would he even give them a second thought? I don't mean he would flat out kick them out of the house, but ideally he isn't the best father figure lol. When he does something remotely "normal" like a dad should people get all teary eyed and happy because he RARELY does anything normal. Sure he doesn't shoot people with guns, but he does do things that are borderline psychotic at times, and when people call him out on it he doesn't think he's wrong.

Anyways I won't turn this into an I hate batman topic because I think the guy is cool, I don't hate him at all.

I understand people hate how Superman and Wonder Woman were portrayed in this story, but it is an alternate universe after all.

People seem to love the "Justice Lords" when all it took was the flash dying to create that team, but apparently if his wife and unborn child, and the city he lives in gets destroyed and he retaliates by telling people to stop having wars, and pretty much creates world peace....that is out of line.

In reality world peace isn't bad at all, it's just because he demanded it that makes him seem like a tyrant. If in the up coming issues he does something like "all tv and media will have a 24 hour loops with my face on it, a curfew of 7 pm, and no more fatty foods, " and just insane terms to follow then sure I will consider him an evil tyrant, but right now he told everyone to stop fighting, to which they replied with "FU! We're taking your parents"

Still he´s getting a bit OTT with the language. He´s acting like a supreme leader. To be honest I understood him killing The Joker, what do you expect a man to do, if someone gassed him, made him think his wife and unborn child were Doomsday, and then got him to kill them. The nuclear bombs bad, true, but us sentient beings are quite selfish so the Lois thing is just over the edge. Have to love the Joker though. But when Supes calmed down he still isn´t seeing that not everyone deserves to be ruled to stop a few nutcases. Just take the insane tyrants out, and chill with the rest. Or to be honest just calm down and I´d understand, but he gets worse and worse, until its not like an elseworld, its more like a totally different character. With Wondy even more so. But now I´ve seen the game play WW is awesome in the game. They make her the way she should be in her current comic. Ares is bad ass as well, can´t wait to play with them. But seriously its like a damn movie, its great.

As for Batman, love Bats; I´d never hate on him, but trying to paint Bats as the most nobel of the heroes is crazy. Flash, Superman and WW are his moral superiors by a long shot. Bats is cool exactly cause he is kinda psycho.

Posted by akbogert

See this debate is still raging. Aside from the people who just dislike the Injustice premise in general (I'm sorry, but you can't have a perfect Superman in this story and have it make any sense, so yeah, he's going to get his hands dirty), I think the real issue is that while other characters are behaving differently because of extreme stimuli pushing them to act that way, Wonder Woman is just acting really OOC with no clear reason for doing so. Superman's behavior makes sense in the context of the extreme nature of what happened - he really killed his wife and unborn child, and he really wiped out the entire city of Metropolis. But what's Diana's excuse for being "whatever he needs me to be"?

If the spoiler which has surfaced in this thread is accurate, then that helps a lot and it will make people's complaints go away. Until it does, people getting upset over her representation -- the most glaring deviance from canon -- makes sense.

Posted by Jpgman

@akbogert said:

If the spoiler which has surfaced in this thread is accurate, then that helps a lot and it will make people's complaints go away. Until it does, people getting upset over her representation -- the most glaring deviance from canon -- makes sense.

You mean the alternate universe thing? Yeah, that's real. Actually, I'm the guy who's being spreading it around here lol.

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