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Posted by MuyJingo

It ain't that funny. Batman has beaten Superman, although in special circumstances. CB can't admit even that, but the facts speak for themselves.

This thread/topic got ridiculous because certain people were greatly exaggerating superman's powers, turning him into a god.

Which is an act of desperation, because they have no argument otherwise.

Posted by Wolfrazer
@MuyJingo said:

It ain't that funny. Batman has beaten Superman, although in special circumstances. CB can't admit even that, but the facts speak for themselves.

This thread/topic got ridiculous because certain people were greatly exaggerating superman's powers, turning him into a god.

Which is an act of desperation, because they have no argument otherwise.

Well....he is a being with god like power, so really...yes he is a god in a way.
Online
Posted by MuyJingo

@Wolfrazer said:

@MuyJingo said:

It ain't that funny. Batman has beaten Superman, although in special circumstances. CB can't admit even that, but the facts speak for themselves.

This thread/topic got ridiculous because certain people were greatly exaggerating superman's powers, turning him into a god.

Which is an act of desperation, because they have no argument otherwise.

Well....he is a being with god like power, so really...yes he is a god in a way.

No, not even close.

He is an ET who has been significantly augmented by living under a yellow sun. That's it. As powerful as he is, he isn't a god.

People were trying to argue nonsense like saying he could see to the edge of the universe, or cover every inch (including inside buildings) of a city of 20 million in a few seconds. Just nonsense.

Posted by Mediumguy

If Batman could have a device set up to pulse kryptonite radiation when detecting high speed, it could neutralize most of supes attributes. Seeing how he'd need a speed along with power to hurt batman with his hits.

Posted by KnightRise

@MuyJingo said:

@Wolfrazer said:

@MuyJingo said:

It ain't that funny. Batman has beaten Superman, although in special circumstances. CB can't admit even that, but the facts speak for themselves.

This thread/topic got ridiculous because certain people were greatly exaggerating superman's powers, turning him into a god.

Which is an act of desperation, because they have no argument otherwise.

Well....he is a being with god like power, so really...yes he is a god in a way.

No, not even close.

He is an ET who has been significantly augmented by living under a yellow sun. That's it. As powerful as he is, he isn't a god.

People were trying to argue nonsense like saying he could see to the edge of the universe, or cover every inch (including inside buildings) of a city of 20 million in a few seconds. Just nonsense.

What was the last Superman comic you read, bro? Those are points that people who've never read one use.

Posted by Cyberkiwi

For God's Sake... Superman could get beaten even by Lex Luthor... Let alone the GODDAMN BATMAN!!!

Superman's tech>>>>>>>>>>>Batman's tech???? You dont know the man...

ANd hell yeah, my arguments are coutesy of the great and only "was too stubborn to stop when he aged and got crazy" Frank Miller.

Posted by MuyJingo

@KnightRise said:

What was the last Superman comic you read, bro? Those are points that people who've never read one use.

Bro, what?

If they are points made by people who don't read comics, then why ask when I last red comics? I didn't make the points bro.

You need to articulate better, bro.

Posted by Douche_Macenzi

Superman would grab batman and throw him into space. The end. Batman would eat kryptonite then poop in the justice league toilet and not flush so when superman comes along to drop super turd he'll be all like " meeeehhhhhh what's going on blaaarrgggg" then he would b dying on the toilet and bats would come out and be all like "ha ha ha! Foolish superman" then bam! Kryptonite batarang to the back of the head. The end. This argument is pointless.

Posted by Eternal19

@MuyJingo: you really think that a guy who has trouble beating a clown can beat a guy who can read whole libraries in minutes,bench press planets, has a large amount of kryptonian tech that is superior to human tech, and he knows batman's secret identity and where he lives. Lex luthor is smarter than batman and lex cant even beat superman. The only fanboy on this thread is you because you made a thread without knowing the full extent of superman's powers and you ignore any attempt of enlightening you about it as "made up" or "fanboism" when your showing the key traits of fanboism.

I doubt you've ever read a superman comic

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19 said:

@MuyJingo: you really think that a guy who has trouble beating a clown can beat a guy who can read whole libraries in minutes,bench press planets, has a large amount of kryptonian tech that is superior to human tech, and he knows batman's secret identity and where he lives. Lex luthor is smarter than batman and lex cant even beat superman. The only fanboy on this thread is you because you made a thread without knowing the full extent of superman's powers and you ignore any attempt of enlightening you about it as "made up" or "fanboism" when your showing the key traits of fanboism.

I doubt you've ever read a superman comic

A Clown? A CLOWN! That clown frightens Lex Luthor and every hardened super criminal. I think so far you're showing fanboyism.

Posted by SmashBrawler

@Mediumguy said:

A Clown? A CLOWN! That clown frightens Lex Luthor and every hardened super criminal. I think so far you're showing fanboyism.

I've never heard of Lex Luthor being afraid of the Joker.

Edited by Eternal19

@Mediumguy said:

@Eternal19 said:

@MuyJingo: you really think that a guy who has trouble beating a clown can beat a guy who can read whole libraries in minutes,bench press planets, has a large amount of kryptonian tech that is superior to human tech, and he knows batman's secret identity and where he lives. Lex luthor is smarter than batman and lex cant even beat superman. The only fanboy on this thread is you because you made a thread without knowing the full extent of superman's powers and you ignore any attempt of enlightening you about it as "made up" or "fanboism" when your showing the key traits of fanboism.

I doubt you've ever read a superman comic

A Clown? A CLOWN! That clown frightens Lex Luthor and every hardened super criminal. I think so far you're showing fanboyism.

Lex luthor could order the joker dead at any time.He has no reason to fear the joker.I doubt that you know anything about lex luthor

Posted by Mediumguy

I know Lex Luthor and I know the joker. I doubt you know anything about The Joker.

Edited by Eternal19

@Mediumguy: prove that lex luthor has a reason to fear the joker

P.S. ive been reading batman comics for years I know the Joker

Posted by Dark_Vengeance_

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: Ok in the meantime prove that Lex Luthor isn't scared of The Joker.

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy said:

@Eternal19: Ok in the meantime prove that Lex Luthor isn't scared of The Joker.

Lex luthor is the smartest man on the planet, he is also incredibly rich and has tech that was designed to fight superman. He knows people and has connections to people all over the DCU, Lex Luthors henchmen>>>>>>>>>>>>Jokers henchmen. At any time he could put a bounty on Jokers head, or go kill him himself. I see no reason for Lex Luthor to fear the Joker.

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: Then you won't mind posting the scans proving it.

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy: proving what? that lex luthor doesnt fear the joker even though his bio proves otherwise. and what ever happened to proving how lex fears the joker i dont see you saying anything

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: What happened to you posting evidence that Lex doesn't fear the Joker. I don't see YOU posting anything.

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy: I already did, i listed lex luthor's abilities. He has every advantage over the joker except insanity. Theres no reason for him to fear him.

Edited by Eternal19

@Mediumguy said:

okay, looks like if Joker actually did anything he would've gotten his head blown of. Lex jumped that doesnt mean he's scared of him.

P.S. what comic was this from I've never seen this scan before

Posted by Mediumguy
Edited by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: Either DT: #897 or AC: #897 whichever goes to that number. But come on now, Lex had an armed guard and no cameras. Guess someone was out of their comfort zone

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy: I got to go we'll continue this later. you seem like you know what your talking about and this we'll make the debate more interesting

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: Indeed this is very interesting.

Edited by MuyJingo

@Eternal19 said:

@MuyJingo: you really think that a guy who has trouble beating a clown can beat a guy who can read whole libraries in minutes,bench press planets, has a large amount of kryptonian tech that is superior to human tech, and he knows batman's secret identity and where he lives. Lex luthor is smarter than batman and lex cant even beat superman. The only fanboy on this thread is you because you made a thread without knowing the full extent of superman's powers and you ignore any attempt of enlightening you about it as "made up" or "fanboism" when your showing the key traits of fanboism.

I doubt you've ever read a superman comic

Do you not see any problem with your reply here?

You seem to be arguing as though I said that yes, Batman will beat Superman in a fight. That isn't what I said.

What I said was that it is completely plausible that Batman could beat Superman, depending on circumstances. It would have to be well written, but it is plausible and believable.

I do know the full extent of Superman's powers and I've read a great many Superman comics. Nonsense like seeing to the edge of the universe is not among his powers, despite it's appearance in a single comic. Relying on that single line from a single comic to say he has that poer all the time, is the perfect example of fanboyism. There is no enlightenment, just bias and irrationality.

Batman is a master of disguise. He can hide his heartbeat from Superman. He is in a city that he knows intimately with 20 million people or whatever it is. It is no problem for Bruce to hide, which gives him time to prepare and make the first strike.

Which will probably involved bringing him down with synthesized kryptonite.

Also saying Lex doesn't fear the Joker...that's just silly. Maybe not to the same extent as other people, but he would certainly be wary of him.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Eternal19 said:

Lex jumped that doesnt mean he's scared of him.

Yes, it does. Someone like Lex was not able to maintain their composure that they are known for, due to fear.

Posted by Lvenger
Posted by MuyJingo

@Lvenger said:

Citizen Bane's blog post on this matter pretty much explains why Batman has very little chance of beating Superman: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/citizenbane/superman-vs-batman/87-79268/

I wrote my blog post as a response to that. His post is wrong, and he doesn't get it. He can't even admit that Batman beat Superman in TDKR.

It's funny, but in one of his posts of Thor vs someone, he talks about how some people find obscure issues where Thor did something that exceeded his power, and then use it as an argument that Thor can do whatever he did everytime.

CB talks about how that isn't really a fair comparison, yet that is *exactly* what he does with Superman.

Posted by Lvenger

@MuyJingo: Ah you mentioned this before. Then allow me to provide a response to each of your points:

  • Superior mind - You really haven't seen many post crisis feats for Superman's intelligence have you? Creating a paradise world during For Tomorrow, analysing the weak spots in an advanced Kryptonian battleship, the list goes on. Superman's not a slouch in the intelligence department. Bruce is more of a tactician but this isn't really a good enough point to explain why Batman beats Superman
  • Psychology - A good point here. The battle in Hush is a good example. It should be recalled though in that fight that Batman admitted he couldn't stop Superman, just slow him down so Catwoman could get Lois. But this doesn't account for Superman's combat speed or reaction speed feats.
  • Weaknesses - Again not a good point. Superman faces foes that attempt to use his weaknesses to beat him and still wins. In the Citizen Bane blog you're attempting to disprove, he provides an instance where Superman beats a Kryptonite covered Batman. As well as the Kryptonite Man, Lex Luthor's powered suit of armour and Metallo, Superman's beaten a variety of foes that use his weaknesses against him. Not a strong point here. Furthermore the only Kryptonite based weapon Batman has ever used against Superman in continuity is a kryptonite ring. Not really much when you look at this scan of Superman KOing Supergirl wearing said kryptonite ring. That wouldn't stop Superman for long
  • Trap - Again you overlook Superman's speed. He can knock out an ordinary man with a flick of his finger. Batman is just a slightly enhanced human. Nothing special compared to Superman. If he were serious, Superman could KO Batman before he knew anything about it.
  • Lead - Just because Superman can't see him doesn't mean he can't hear him or smell him. 'You may bring up the mask his heartbeat point' but when the Phantom Stranger appears to Superman, he says that "At least when Batman does it I'm not surprised" or something like that.
  • Disguise - How's this going to help? You overlook his x-ray vision. And if Batman incorporated lead into his disguises Superman would smell a rat. So to speak.
  • Nanotechnology - Which issues do you mean by this so I can give a proper response?
  • Your last point is the only good one but skill only helps to some degree. Superman would have to be severely weakened for Batman to be able to KO him physically. And he'd never get that far.

Finally you've really overlooked Superman's speed. You can find plenty of examples of Superman's speed on here or the Internet. This is the one thing Batman has not prepared for so ultimately leads to his downfall. Batman's good with prep but not that good.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Lvenger said:

@MuyJingo: Ah you mentioned this before. Then allow me to provide a response to each of your points:

  • Superior mind - You really haven't seen many post crisis feats for Superman's intelligence have you? Creating a paradise world during For Tomorrow, analysing the weak spots in an advanced Kryptonian battleship, the list goes on. Superman's not a slouch in the intelligence department. Bruce is more of a tactician but this isn't really a good enough point to explain why Batman beats Superman

Hey, thanks for the well thought out reply. Let me respond in kind.

I'm not overlooking his advanced intellect. I just don't see how it is relevant. He can understand and comprehend things faster and to a greater level. OK. Bruce still dwarfs him when it comes to strategy, tactics, urban warfare...

  • Psychology - A good point here. The battle in Hush is a good example. It should be recalled though in that fight that Batman admitted he couldn't stop Superman, just slow him down so Catwoman could get Lois. But this doesn't account for Superman's combat speed or reaction speed feats.

Well, when I talked about Psychology I mean more that Batman could use a hostage or something. It's not such a great point because Bruce is still a hero, and won't let anything bad happen..., but I think there would be a way to exploit the "Boy Scout" mentality.

  • Weaknesses - Again not a good point. Superman faces foes that attempt to use his weaknesses to beat him and still wins. In the Citizen Bane blog you're attempting to disprove, he provides an instance where Superman beats a Kryptonite covered Batman. As well as the Kryptonite Man, Lex Luthor's powered suit of armour and Metallo, Superman's beaten a variety of foes that use his weaknesses against him. Not a strong point here. Furthermore the only Kryptonite based weapon Batman has ever used against Superman in continuity is a kryptonite ring. Not really much when you look at this scan of Superman KOing Supergirl wearing said kryptonite ring. That wouldn't stop Superman for long

First of all, I'm not attempting to disprove the CB blog.His blog is a biased opinion piece, as is mine. My post stands on its own.

Secondly, the examples CB gives just support what I said beofre, that he is cherrypicking examples that suit his argument.

We've seen Superman not slowed down while fighting Kryptonite man. We've also seen a little bit of Kryptonite slow him down when he gets close to it.

The effects of Kryptonite are portrayed inconstantly, and for Batman to slow down Superman with some Kryptonite, giving him a large advantage, is very plausible.

  • Trap - Again you overlook Superman's speed. He can knock out an ordinary man with a flick of his finger. Batman is just a slightly enhanced human. Nothing special compared to Superman. If he were serious, Superman could KO Batman before he knew anything about it.

So, how is Superman going to use his speed? In my example scenario , Superman *can't find* Bruce, and will be weakened from Kryptonite.

If you're talking about Superman being pissed off one day and superspeeding into the Batcave and turning Bruce into red mist, then yeah, I was never disputing that was possible.

  • Lead - Just because Superman can't see him doesn't mean he can't hear him or smell him. 'You may bring up the mask his heartbeat point' but when the Phantom Stranger appears to Superman, he says that "At least when Batman does it I'm not surprised" or something like that.

Oh come on. We know Bruce can hide his heartbeat. He can hide with led or hell, just going invisible. Do you really think Bruce can't hide from Superman?

Let me know how Superman would find Bruce (a master of disguise), in a city of 20 million, when Bruce does not want to be found.

  • Disguise - How's this going to help? You overlook his x-ray vision. And if Batman incorporated lead into his disguises Superman would smell a rat. So to speak.

So, Superman will x-ray everybody on the off-chance they are Bruce? I think you are underestimating this point.

  • Nanotechnology - Which issues do you mean by this so I can give a proper response?

Superman is vulnerable to nanotechnology. Nanomachines entering his body and rearranging things. It's been a plot point in Superman comics before. You don't think Bruce could take advantage of this, maybe make some nanomachiens to immobilize him?

  • Your last point is the only good one but skill only helps to some degree. Superman would have to be severely weakened for Batman to be able to KO him physically. And he'd never get that far.

Batman has all kind of suits that surpass his human limitations. It wouldn't be hard to KO Superman once he was weakened. It would be downright easy with some Kryptonite. I imagine it going down in a similar way to Lex beating Superman in the movie Superman Returns, which I know is not canon and was not in the comics.

Finally you've really overlooked Superman's speed. You can find plenty of examples of Superman's speed on here or the Internet. This is the one thing Batman has not prepared for so ultimately leads to his downfall. Batman's good with prep but not that good.

I didn't overlook the speed. He won't be that fast if he is weakened.

Keep in mind, that I'm not saying Batman will beat Superman. Just that a story could be written pretty easily where Batman believably beat Superman.

Edited by Mediumguy

@MuyJingo said:

@Lvenger said:

@MuyJingo: Ah you mentioned this before. Then allow me to provide a response to each of your points:

  • Superior mind - You really haven't seen many post crisis feats for Superman's intelligence have you? Creating a paradise world during For Tomorrow, analysing the weak spots in an advanced Kryptonian battleship, the list goes on. Superman's not a slouch in the intelligence department. Bruce is more of a tactician but this isn't really a good enough point to explain why Batman beats Superman

Hey, thanks for the well thought out reply. Let me respond in kind.

I'm not overlooking his advanced intellect. I just don't see how it is relevant. He can understand and comprehend things faster and to a greater level. OK. Bruce still dwarfs him when it comes to strategy, tactics, urban warfare...

  • Psychology - A good point here. The battle in Hush is a good example. It should be recalled though in that fight that Batman admitted he couldn't stop Superman, just slow him down so Catwoman could get Lois. But this doesn't account for Superman's combat speed or reaction speed feats.

Well, when I talked about Psychology I mean more that Batman could use a hostage or something. It's not such a great point because Bruce is still a hero, and won't let anything bad happen..., but I think there would be a way to exploit the "Boy Scout" mentality.

  • Weaknesses - Again not a good point. Superman faces foes that attempt to use his weaknesses to beat him and still wins. In the Citizen Bane blog you're attempting to disprove, he provides an instance where Superman beats a Kryptonite covered Batman. As well as the Kryptonite Man, Lex Luthor's powered suit of armour and Metallo, Superman's beaten a variety of foes that use his weaknesses against him. Not a strong point here. Furthermore the only Kryptonite based weapon Batman has ever used against Superman in continuity is a kryptonite ring. Not really much when you look at this scan of Superman KOing Supergirl wearing said kryptonite ring. That wouldn't stop Superman for long

First of all, I'm not attempting to disprove the CB blog.His blog is a biased opinion piece, as is mine. My post stands on its own.

Secondly, the examples CB gives just support what I said beofre, that he is cherrypicking examples that suit his argument.

We've seen Superman not slowed down while fighting Kryptonite man. We've also seen a little bit of Kryptonite slow him down when he gets close to it.

The effects of Kryptonite are portrayed inconstantly, and for Batman to slow down Superman with some Kryptonite, giving him a large advantage, is very plausible.

  • Trap - Again you overlook Superman's speed. He can knock out an ordinary man with a flick of his finger. Batman is just a slightly enhanced human. Nothing special compared to Superman. If he were serious, Superman could KO Batman before he knew anything about it.

So, how is Superman going to use his speed? In my example scenario , Superman *can't find* Bruce, and will be weakened from Kryptonite.

If you're talking about Superman being pissed off one day and superspeeding into the Batcave and turning Bruce into red mist, then yeah, I was never disputing that was possible.

  • Lead - Just because Superman can't see him doesn't mean he can't hear him or smell him. 'You may bring up the mask his heartbeat point' but when the Phantom Stranger appears to Superman, he says that "At least when Batman does it I'm not surprised" or something like that.

Oh come on. We know Bruce can hide his heartbeat. He can hide with led or hell, just going invisible. Do you really think Bruce can't hide from Superman?

Let me know how Superman would find Bruce (a master of disguise), in a city of 20 million, when Bruce does not want to be found.

  • Disguise - How's this going to help? You overlook his x-ray vision. And if Batman incorporated lead into his disguises Superman would smell a rat. So to speak.

So, Superman will x-ray everybody on the off-chance they are Bruce? I think you are underestimating this point.

  • Nanotechnology - Which issues do you mean by this so I can give a proper response?

Superman is vulnerable to nanotechnology. Nanomachines entering his body and rearranging things. It's been a plot point in Superman comics before. You don't think Bruce could take advantage of this, maybe make some nanomachiens to immobilize him?

  • Your last point is the only good one but skill only helps to some degree. Superman would have to be severely weakened for Batman to be able to KO him physically. And he'd never get that far.

Batman has all kind of suits that surpass his human limitations. It wouldn't be hard to KO Superman once he was weakened. It would be downright easy with some Kryptonite. I imagine it going down in a similar way to Lex beating Superman in the movie Superman Returns, which I know is not canon and was not in the comics.

Finally you've really overlooked Superman's speed. You can find plenty of examples of Superman's speed on here or the Internet. This is the one thing Batman has not prepared for so ultimately leads to his downfall. Batman's good with prep but not that good.

I didn't overlook the speed. He won't be that fast if he is weakened.

Keep in mind, that I'm not saying Batman will beat Superman. Just that a story could be written pretty easily where Batman believably beat Superman.

This. Plus Batman could just have a device that pulses various kryptonite radiation when detecting a high speed.

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy said:

@MuyJingo said:

@Lvenger said:

@MuyJingo: Ah you mentioned this before. Then allow me to provide a response to each of your points:

  • Superior mind - You really haven't seen many post crisis feats for Superman's intelligence have you? Creating a paradise world during For Tomorrow, analysing the weak spots in an advanced Kryptonian battleship, the list goes on. Superman's not a slouch in the intelligence department. Bruce is more of a tactician but this isn't really a good enough point to explain why Batman beats Superman

Hey, thanks for the well thought out reply. Let me respond in kind.

I'm not overlooking his advanced intellect. I just don't see how it is relevant. He can understand and comprehend things faster and to a greater level. OK. Bruce still dwarfs him when it comes to strategy, tactics, urban warfare...

  • Psychology - A good point here. The battle in Hush is a good example. It should be recalled though in that fight that Batman admitted he couldn't stop Superman, just slow him down so Catwoman could get Lois. But this doesn't account for Superman's combat speed or reaction speed feats.

Well, when I talked about Psychology I mean more that Batman could use a hostage or something. It's not such a great point because Bruce is still a hero, and won't let anything bad happen..., but I think there would be a way to exploit the "Boy Scout" mentality.

  • Weaknesses - Again not a good point. Superman faces foes that attempt to use his weaknesses to beat him and still wins. In the Citizen Bane blog you're attempting to disprove, he provides an instance where Superman beats a Kryptonite covered Batman. As well as the Kryptonite Man, Lex Luthor's powered suit of armour and Metallo, Superman's beaten a variety of foes that use his weaknesses against him. Not a strong point here. Furthermore the only Kryptonite based weapon Batman has ever used against Superman in continuity is a kryptonite ring. Not really much when you look at this scan of Superman KOing Supergirl wearing said kryptonite ring. That wouldn't stop Superman for long

First of all, I'm not attempting to disprove the CB blog.His blog is a biased opinion piece, as is mine. My post stands on its own.

Secondly, the examples CB gives just support what I said beofre, that he is cherrypicking examples that suit his argument.

We've seen Superman not slowed down while fighting Kryptonite man. We've also seen a little bit of Kryptonite slow him down when he gets close to it.

The effects of Kryptonite are portrayed inconstantly, and for Batman to slow down Superman with some Kryptonite, giving him a large advantage, is very plausible.

  • Trap - Again you overlook Superman's speed. He can knock out an ordinary man with a flick of his finger. Batman is just a slightly enhanced human. Nothing special compared to Superman. If he were serious, Superman could KO Batman before he knew anything about it.

So, how is Superman going to use his speed? In my example scenario , Superman *can't find* Bruce, and will be weakened from Kryptonite.

If you're talking about Superman being pissed off one day and superspeeding into the Batcave and turning Bruce into red mist, then yeah, I was never disputing that was possible.

  • Lead - Just because Superman can't see him doesn't mean he can't hear him or smell him. 'You may bring up the mask his heartbeat point' but when the Phantom Stranger appears to Superman, he says that "At least when Batman does it I'm not surprised" or something like that.

Oh come on. We know Bruce can hide his heartbeat. He can hide with led or hell, just going invisible. Do you really think Bruce can't hide from Superman?

Let me know how Superman would find Bruce (a master of disguise), in a city of 20 million, when Bruce does not want to be found.

  • Disguise - How's this going to help? You overlook his x-ray vision. And if Batman incorporated lead into his disguises Superman would smell a rat. So to speak.

So, Superman will x-ray everybody on the off-chance they are Bruce? I think you are underestimating this point.

  • Nanotechnology - Which issues do you mean by this so I can give a proper response?

Superman is vulnerable to nanotechnology. Nanomachines entering his body and rearranging things. It's been a plot point in Superman comics before. You don't think Bruce could take advantage of this, maybe make some nanomachiens to immobilize him?

  • Your last point is the only good one but skill only helps to some degree. Superman would have to be severely weakened for Batman to be able to KO him physically. And he'd never get that far.

Batman has all kind of suits that surpass his human limitations. It wouldn't be hard to KO Superman once he was weakened. It would be downright easy with some Kryptonite. I imagine it going down in a similar way to Lex beating Superman in the movie Superman Returns, which I know is not canon and was not in the comics.

Finally you've really overlooked Superman's speed. You can find plenty of examples of Superman's speed on here or the Internet. This is the one thing Batman has not prepared for so ultimately leads to his downfall. Batman's good with prep but not that good.

I didn't overlook the speed. He won't be that fast if he is weakened.

Keep in mind, that I'm not saying Batman will beat Superman. Just that a story could be written pretty easily where Batman believably beat Superman.

This. Plus Batman could just have a device that pulses various kryptonite radiation when detecting a high speed.

I love how people just automatically assume that batman can build something. when I could say the same for superman

Posted by Mediumguy

@Eternal19: And thus the cycle continues.

Posted by Eternal19

@MuyJingo said:

@Eternal19 said:

@MuyJingo: you really think that a guy who has trouble beating a clown can beat a guy who can read whole libraries in minutes,bench press planets, has a large amount of kryptonian tech that is superior to human tech, and he knows batman's secret identity and where he lives. Lex luthor is smarter than batman and lex cant even beat superman. The only fanboy on this thread is you because you made a thread without knowing the full extent of superman's powers and you ignore any attempt of enlightening you about it as "made up" or "fanboism" when your showing the key traits of fanboism.

I doubt you've ever read a superman comic

Do you not see any problem with your reply here?

You seem to be arguing as though I said that yes, Batman will beat Superman in a fight. That isn't what I said.

What I said was that it is completely plausible that Batman could beat Superman, depending on circumstances. It would have to be well written, but it is plausible and believable.

I do know the full extent of Superman's powers and I've read a great many Superman comics. Nonsense like seeing to the edge of the universe is not among his powers, despite it's appearance in a single comic. Relying on that single line from a single comic to say he has that poer all the time, is the perfect example of fanboyism. There is no enlightenment, just bias and irrationality.

Batman is a master of disguise. He can hide his heartbeat from Superman. He is in a city that he knows intimately with 20 million people or whatever it is. It is no problem for Bruce to hide, which gives him time to prepare and make the first strike.

Which will probably involved bringing him down with synthesized kryptonite.

Also saying Lex doesn't fear the Joker...that's just silly. Maybe not to the same extent as other people, but he would certainly be wary of him.

you brushed of the people who were telling you that superman is super smart as nonsense sounds like resisting to listen to peoples enlightenment to me.

What you fail to realize is that it wouldnt make sense that batman is just randomly hunting superman so,him disguising himself in the middle of the city wont matter. the only way batman could actually hurt superman is if superman doesnt know he's coming. If superman actually did go bad i believe its safe to assume he'd go after bats first ,and if superman is gunning for batman its not going to last long. writers would have to recycle the same old superman is mind controled plot device to make them fight.

Its pretty silly to assume that Lex Luthor who has all the advantages over Joker would fear him. and "wary" is not the same as fear

Posted by Eternal19

@Mediumguy: I dont quit unless someones shows me truthful undeniable evidence that batman can beat superman otherwise im not buying it. I know batman's villians and none of them are on superman's level without PIS batman should never be able to beat superman

Posted by MuyJingo

I love how people just automatically assume that batman can build something. when I could say the same for superman

There are several points to consider here.

  1. Advanced intellect does not necessarily mean advanced creativity.
  2. Advanced intellect does not mean being an expert in several fields
  3. Most importantly, Superman does not need to build anything to beat Batman, so why would he?

I mean sure, you could say he could build some advanced Kryptonian device to track Bruce's DNA anywhere on the planet...but has such a thing been shown in the comics? I'm using stuff from the comics, which we know to exist. What would Superman build that exists in the comics that would change things here?

Posted by MuyJingo

@Eternal19 said:

you brushed of the people who were telling you that superman is super smart as nonsense sounds like resisting to listen to peoples enlightenment to me.

Err, no. LOL. Enlightenment, really? How....arrogant?

I was not ignorant to the fact that Kal-El has an advanced Kryptonian intellect, it just isn't relevant. Otherwise, please explain just how it's a game changer, and give an example of it being used in the comics.

What you fail to realize is that it wouldnt make sense that batman is just randomly hunting superman so,him disguising himself in the middle of the city wont matter. the only way batman could actually hurt superman is if superman doesnt know he's coming. If superman actually did go bad i believe its safe to assume he'd go after bats first ,and if superman is gunning for batman its not going to last long. writers would have to recycle the same old superman is mind controled plot device to make them fight.

I gave the example that they are fighting and Bruce knows Superman is coming, but has prep time.

Batman can hide and then lure him into a trap. That's what I'm saying, in simple terms. The rest is details.

Its pretty silly to assume that Lex Luthor who has all the advantages over Joker would fear him. and "wary" is not the same as fear

Lex Luthor ha armed guards, no cameras, and flinched when Joker made a sudden move. Seems like fear to me.

Which is reasonable as well. Because as badass as Lex Luthor is, it's generally a civillized sort of badass. He see Joker as a wildcard known for killing at random times.

I don't why you think it's a negative point to be afraid of the joker.

Posted by ComicKID777

It's not. It just makes for a way better story if batman comes out on top, if superman wins what does it prove? that he can beat a human with no powers what so ever? batman winning just makes for a better story cause its a man basically fighting a god an even though the odds are stacked agianst him he finds a way to win.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Eternal19 said:

@Mediumguy: I dont quit unless someones shows me truthful undeniable evidence that batman can beat superman otherwise im not buying it. I know batman's villians and none of them are on superman's level without PIS batman should never be able to beat superman

Villains are not a metric to gauge heroes against each other.

Otherwise, Batgirl should be able to easily defeat Batman, seeing as how much easier she took out a Talon.

Posted by Eternal19

@MuyJingo said:

@Eternal19 said:

@Mediumguy: I dont quit unless someones shows me truthful undeniable evidence that batman can beat superman otherwise im not buying it. I know batman's villians and none of them are on superman's level without PIS batman should never be able to beat superman

Villains are not a metric to gauge heroes against each other.

Otherwise, Batgirl should be able to easily defeat Batman, seeing as how much easier she took out a Talon.

batman took out several talons. He even beat one without the batsuit on.

Fighting lesser powered villians should be a factor since if batman has a hard time beating them. It makes it very hard to believe he can beat superman, you see what im saying. Lex luthor cant beat superman yet batman can even though lex is smarter. it doesnt make any sense

Posted by Galactic_Man

Everything said here is what makes Batman overrated...

Posted by batshrine

@sethysquare said:

Kryptonians are said to be a level 7 intellience creatures which is canon if you have read action. Humans are said to be level 3 only. So no matter how smart batman is he is never asintelligent as supes.

OK so the original post of this thread was spot on with everything but Superman's intelligence level. However in the above quote which has framed most people's thinking, intelligence isn't as easy as to quantify in numbers. Besides the fact that those numbers deal with the average and we can all agree Batman has trained his mind far more than the average human. But intelligence and knowing how to apply that knowledge is a whole different situation.

For example get an Apple engineer to live in the ghetto's of Los Angeles or New York, and they wouldn't last a day. Yet people live there...so does that make the people that live there smarter than the Apple engineer? How bout this if you ask me a question about Batman I can answer confidently and be able to say where I got that information from. But if someone asks me anything about stamps or Major League Baseball I will not know a thing. So does that make me stupid?

So what I think the original poster originally meant by intelligence and strategy is that while Superman is genetically smarter (not raised smarter FYI, which makes a big difference otherwise why weren't we using the internet 2000 years ago if humans are so smart) he doesn't know how to apply his intelligence the way Batman does, especially when it comes to battle and combat, since you know Batman did spend a good time of his life training for this.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Eternal19 said:

batman took out several talons. He even beat one without the batsuit on.

Fighting lesser powered villians should be a factor since if batman has a hard time beating them. It makes it very hard to believe he can beat superman, you see what im saying. Lex luthor cant beat superman yet batman can even though lex is smarter. it doesnt make any sense

Batman had a hell of a time with one talon. Then he was running from several, and needed a special suit to deal with them.

The other members of the bat family did not have nearly as much trouble. Nightwing just used Escrema sticks.

Again, being smarter isn't everything. Batman is a better tactician, and Lex isn't *that* much smarter that it would change the game.

You still have not addressed any of the points I made in reply to your other post.

Posted by MuyJingo

@batshrine said:

@sethysquare said:

Kryptonians are said to be a level 7 intellience creatures which is canon if you have read action. Humans are said to be level 3 only. So no matter how smart batman is he is never asintelligent as supes.

OK so the original post of this thread was spot on with everything but Superman's intelligence level. However in the above quote which has framed most people's thinking, intelligence isn't as easy as to quantify in numbers. Besides the fact that those numbers deal with the average and we can all agree Batman has trained his mind far more than the average human. But intelligence and knowing how to apply that knowledge is a whole different situation.

For example get an Apple engineer to live in the ghetto's of Los Angeles or New York, and they wouldn't last a day. Yet people live there...so does that make the people that live there smarter than the Apple engineer? How bout this if you ask me a question about Batman I can answer confidently and be able to say where I got that information from. But if someone asks me anything about stamps or Major League Baseball I will not know a thing. So does that make me stupid?

So what I think the original poster originally meant by intelligence and strategy is that while Superman is genetically smarter (not raised smarter FYI, which makes a big difference otherwise why weren't we using the internet 2000 years ago if humans are so smart) he doesn't know how to apply his intelligence the way Batman does, especially when it comes to battle and combat, since you know Batman did spend a good time of his life training for this.

Exactly! Intelligence is only one part, and it is potential. Without knowledge and experience, it isn't worth much, and that is where Superman is lacking.

Put Batman against someone like Zod, and it's a whole different story.

Posted by BatWatch

I do believe your scenario is plausible. Honestly, the Superman vs. Batman debate is stale, but I agree it is possible and even likely that Batman could win in a sneak attack.

However, Batman could never win in a straight up head to head battle. Even with Kryptonie, Superman could just keep his distance and fry him with heat vision or though a skyscraper on top of him.

Edited by Rumble Man

I just blame batman monopolizing on the good writers that this fiasco started in the first place

miller and his angst filled batman beting US and A superman also counts

This only ends in tragedy
Posted by Eternal19

@MuyJingo said:

@Eternal19 said:

batman took out several talons. He even beat one without the batsuit on.

Fighting lesser powered villians should be a factor since if batman has a hard time beating them. It makes it very hard to believe he can beat superman, you see what im saying. Lex luthor cant beat superman yet batman can even though lex is smarter. it doesnt make any sense

Batman had a hell of a time with one talon. Then he was running from several, and needed a special suit to deal with them.

The other members of the bat family did not have nearly as much trouble. Nightwing just used Escrema sticks.

Again, being smarter isn't everything. Batman is a better tactician, and Lex isn't *that* much smarter that it would change the game.

You still have not addressed any of the points I made in reply to your other post.

But Lex is obsessed with killing superman and has the most experience fighting him. If anyone knows how to take down a Kryptonian its lex luthor. I agree that batman is a better tactician but, when it comes to fighting superman lex should be superior.

Edited by Eternal19

@MuyJingo said:

@Eternal19 said:

you brushed of the people who were telling you that superman is super smart as nonsense sounds like resisting to listen to peoples enlightenment to me.

Err, no. LOL. Enlightenment, really? How....arrogant?

I was not ignorant to the fact that Kal-El has an advanced Kryptonian intellect, it just isn't relevant. Otherwise, please explain just how it's a game changer, and give an example of it being used in the comics.

What you fail to realize is that it wouldnt make sense that batman is just randomly hunting superman so,him disguising himself in the middle of the city wont matter. the only way batman could actually hurt superman is if superman doesnt know he's coming. If superman actually did go bad i believe its safe to assume he'd go after bats first ,and if superman is gunning for batman its not going to last long. writers would have to recycle the same old superman is mind controled plot device to make them fight.

I gave the example that they are fighting and Bruce knows Superman is coming, but has prep time.

Batman can hide and then lure him into a trap. That's what I'm saying, in simple terms. The rest is details.

Its pretty silly to assume that Lex Luthor who has all the advantages over Joker would fear him. and "wary" is not the same as fear

Lex Luthor ha armed guards, no cameras, and flinched when Joker made a sudden move. Seems like fear to me.

Which is reasonable as well. Because as badass as Lex Luthor is, it's generally a civillized sort of badass. He see Joker as a wildcard known for killing at random times.

I don't why you think it's a negative point to be afraid of the joker.

It is relevant because superman has kryptonian technology that he could resort to. and he wont as easily fall for a trap as batman would.

flinching doesnt mean scared if someone tried to hit me i'd move that doesnt mean im scared of that person that just means that im scared of being hit.

P.S. i respect your debating skills and it seems like you're an adult

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